Looks like Bohs will be seeded in 2nd qualifying round of CL

[osarusan]

Summer season was brought in so that we would regularly have a team in the group stages of the CL or later the Europa league. It has failed miserably,now lets forget about playing games in youknowicanistan etc and pay more attention in promoting and developing our own league. IMO a return to the traditional season is a must. Take the Rovers feelgood factor out of the equation and crowds are desperate. It would be great to see BOEEZ do well in the CL, but at the end of the day ,Bill, does it put bums on seats in Ballybofey/Waterford/Limerick/Galway etc

Crowds were desperate before, and will be in the future. The impact of either summer or winter football on this will be minimal.

[Charlie Darwin]

Summer season was brought in so that we would regularly have a team in the group stages of the CL or later the Europa league.
Group stages of the Champions League? Nobody seriously thought that could happen.

[Duggie]

Summer season was brought in so that we would regularly have a team in the group stages of the CL or later the Europa league. It has failed miserably,now lets forget about playing games in youknowicanistan etc and pay more attention in promoting and developing our own league. IMO a return to the traditional season is a must. Take the Rovers feelgood factor out of the equation and crowds are desperate. It would be great to see BOEEZ do well in the CL, but at the end of the day ,Bill, does it put bums on seats in Ballybofey/Waterford/Limerick/Galway etc

such a backward attitude. i laugh at people who are against summer football, as if the crowds were there before. it was brought in to improve our results in europe which it has done. result! how anyone could wish for a rainy bog pitch in dec over summer football is beyond me.

[pineapple stu]

Group stages of the Champions League? Nobody seriously thought that could happen.
Ollie and the two Gerries?

[osarusan]

it was brought in to improve our results in europe which it has done. result!

I've no desire to go back to winter football either, but I'm not sure how much impact summer football has had on LOI teams' European performances. I'd say that full-time football and the training that goes with it had a bigger part to play.

[Macy]

such a backward attitude. i laugh at people who are against summer football, as if the crowds were there before. it was brought in to improve our results in europe which it has done. result! how anyone could wish for a rainy bog pitch in dec over summer football is beyond me.
Crowds are down during the summer months when the old season would've been closed, the european progress just happened to coincide with full time clubs, and I forgot it only rains in December. It's been great conditions for the last few cup finals though, I'll give you that...

But the point really is they never put in place measures of what exactly summer football was supposed to do. Every reason for moving can be argued, or explicity shown to have been false, but since there's (deliberatley) no planned target to measure it against then we have this debate every few weeks.

There's a reason why other leagues, such as the league of wales, have looked at what we've done and seen it's crap and not changed!

[Duggie]

if we didnt have summer football we would be going into europe out of season. why would anyone want to go back to that.


There's a reason why other leagues, such as the league of wales, have looked at what we've done and seen it's crap and not changed!
eh id like to think our ambitions are a bit more advanced than the league of wales!!!

[pineapple stu]

if we didnt have summer football we would be going into europe out of season. why would anyone want to go back to that.
No reason you couldn't do a July-March season.



eh id like to think our ambitions are a bit more advanced than the league of wales!!!
How does that counter the point made?

The Scottish league have been looking at it too and not changed anything.

[abcd]

Will Shamrock Rovers go directly into the 2nd round of the Europa League and if so why? It'd be good if they started in round 1 with a fairly handy game rather than going straight into a potentially tricky 2nd round tie.

The Europa league group phase is definitely more accessible these days, just look at some of the teams who got to the group stage last year, we'd fancy our top teams against them.

Also,I think the Croatian team(one of the Zagrebs I think) who Red Bull Salzburg edged out in the 3rd qualifying round last season qualified for the group phase.

[holidaysong]

Will Shamrock Rovers go directly into the 2nd round of the Europa League and if so why? It'd be good if they started in round 1 with a fairly handy game rather than going straight into a potentially tricky 2nd round tie.

Yes Rovers start in the second qualifying round. The higher in the rankings a nation gets, the later in the competition their teams enter, hence the reason that Rovers are into the second qualifying round. See here for where clubs enter for the different countries: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2010.html

The League of Ireland is ranked 30th for the allocation of places in the 2010/11 competitions. In that chart in the Europa League, Fingal are 'CW', Rovers 'N2' and Dundalk 'N3'.

[marley]

I read somewhere that for the qualifying rounds each team gets 90000 euro. Does that mean the Sporting and Rovers automatically get 180000 and Dundalk 90000. For Dundalk to get the 180000 euro they need to win their first match

[Ezeikial]

I read somewhere that for the qualifying rounds each team gets 90000 euro. Does that mean the Sporting and Rovers automatically get 180000 and Dundalk 90000. For Dundalk to get the 180000 euro they need to win their first match

Its 90k for each round you compete in. Sporting Fingal and Shamrock Rovers need to advance to the next round (QR3) in order to get a second payment.

[Dodge]

The 90k isn't exactly prize oney, its supposed to cover expenses etc (which can be massive depending on the draw)

[JC_GUFC]

The 90k isn't exactly prize oney, its supposed to cover expenses etc (which can be massive depending on the draw)

Sure Ryanair fly everywhere these days! Unless the 90k is to cover the cost of excess baggage! :)

Bohs path to the CL looks clearer now that most leagues are finished.

In the 2nd qualifying round they're seeded and will be drawn against one of the following sides

HJK Helsinki (Fin) or Feharvar (Hun) - it's Feharvar if they win the Hungarian league but they probably won't.

Levadia Tallinn Est 2.374
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2.149
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 2.083
Zeljeznicar Bos 1.749 - 2.249 (Not certain yet)
Olimpi Rustavi Geo 1.649
Pyunik Yerevan Arm 1.599
NK Koper Slo 1.391
Inter Baku Azb 1.349
Renova Dzepciste Mac 1.316
Dinamo Tirana Alb 1.049
HB Torshavn Far 0.866
The New Saints Wal 0.766
Linfield Belfast Nir 0.574
Dudelange or Jeunesse d'Esch Lux
and 2 of the qualifiers from the 1st qualifying round between the Champions of Monenegro, San Marino, Andorra and Malta.

Should they win that they'll be drawn against one of the following teams:

FC Basel (Sui)
Anderlecht (Bel)
FC Copenhagen (Den)
Hapoel Tel Aviv (Isr)
Sparta Prague (Cze)
Rosenborg (Nor)
Red Bull Salzburg (Aut)
Litex Lovech (Bul)
Dinamo Zagreb (Cro)
Partizan Belgrade (Srb)

The teams from Hapoel Tel Aviv down are also playing in the 2nd qualifying round so if they are beaten Bohs will play the unseeded team that beats them (i.e. one of the teams listed as their potential opponents in the 2nd qualifying round)

In the 4th and final qualifying round they'd be drawn against one of the top 5 remaining teams from the list above.

[Straightstory]

Group stages of the Champions League? Nobody seriously thought that could happen.

Unlikely, but not totally impossible. Like it or not, an Irish team qualifying for the Group Stages of Champions' League is the only SCENARIO whereby Irish people will begin to take notice of Irish club football. Improvement of facilities etc is just not going to make a difference. I live in hope. Dublin: capital city, population comparable to Liverpool, Manchester, Munich, should have teams regularly competing in Group Stages. But then again, that would require a leap of imagination by the Dublin sporting public who, historically, prefer to go to Archbishop Croke Park to watch a brutish sport featuring 'athletes' from Laois, Offaly etc. kicking lumps out of each other.

[Mr A]

I don't see how an Irish club making the group stages would benefit anyone but that club to be honest.

[Dodge]

I don't see how an Irish club making the group stages would benefit anyone but that club to be honest.

Was talking about this recently with some LOI mates. I've always firmly been of the view that it wouldn't be any benefit but I've been looking at it from a purely Dublin basis. It was pointed out to me, that if there's any increased level of interest in the league, Country teams are btter placed to take advantage of it then Dublin. For example, say Bohs qualify for CL groups, it almost certainly would increase media commentary on them and the league. If, say, Dundalk, wanted to approach a local sponsor during this time they might look more favourablely towards them. "if Bohs are playing AC MIlan and Dundalk are ahead of Bohs in the league, they must be alright..."

However if pats approach a sponsor, there's a big chance the Sponsor could say "well we can sponsor Bohs for €x". Same applies for any floating fans obviously

I also think that if Bohs got money to sustain themselves for years, the league wouldn't be anyway competitive. Either way there's no way I want it to happen.

Oh and just on straightstory's point about ground improvements not attracting fans... While that may be true, it might help keep them. There's no point in getting people into some LOI grounds for them to stand in the rain, have to **** ina portacabin and pay €20 for the privilige. They may try it once, but they won't be back.

[marinobohs]

Was talking about this recently with some LOI mates. I've always firmly been of the view that it wouldn't be any benefit but I've been looking at it from a purely Dublin basis. It was pointed out to me, that if there's any increased level of interest in the league, Country teams are btter placed to take advantage of it then Dublin. For example, say Bohs qualify for CL groups, it almost certainly would increase media commentary on them and the league. If, say, Dundalk, wanted to approach a local sponsor during this time they might look more favourablely towards them. "if Bohs are playing AC MIlan and Dundalk are ahead of Bohs in the league, they must be alright..."

However if pats approach a sponsor, there's a big chance the Sponsor could say "well we can sponsor Bohs for €x". Same applies for any floating fans obviously

I also think that if Bohs got money to sustain themselves for years, the league wouldn't be anyway competitive. Either way there's no way I want it to happen.

Oh and just on straightstory's point about ground improvements not attracting fans... While that may be true, it might help keep them. There's no point in getting people into some LOI grounds for them to stand in the rain, have to **** ina portacabin and pay €20 for the privilige. They may try it once, but they won't be back.

Yea, very good point. Remember discussing this when Shels were chasing the Champs Lge dream, constant references to Rosenborg etc. Pointed out that Rosenborg had won the League 11/12 years in a row at that stage and that any club having similar domination here would hardly be good for the game. Some fans I know attribute shams dmionaton in the early/mid 80s to a drop off in interest in LOI (bit simplistic an argument for my taste but heard it from more than one source).

Anyway think it a long way off (Europa League much more attainable in short to medium term).

Apart from the "die hard" fans nobody but nobody will tolerate returning to some of the conditions in LOI grounds, they are simply disgusting.

[Dalymountrower]

I also think that if Bohs got money to sustain themselves for years, the league wouldn't be anyway competitive. Either way there's no way I want it to happen.

.

Careful now Dodge, surely you don`t want to leave yourself open to Richard Sadlier penning another LOI "smallmindedness" article.

[marinobohs]

Careful now Dodge, surely you don`t want to leave yourself open to Richard Sadlier penning another LOI "smallmindedness" article.

Sure if Pats got a millionaire sugar daddy to sustain them the League wouldnt be any way competitive.........:D:D

[Dodge]

Careful now Dodge, surely you don`t want to leave yourself open to Richard Sadlier penning another LOI "smallmindedness" article.

Don't worry, he knows all about my small mindedness. I don't think I've ever claimed to have the good of the league at heart. Pats and Pats only for me.

Not sure I'd make a good LOI administrator though

[osarusan]

Afraid you'd make a few 'dodgey' decisions?

[Dodge]

Hang your head in shame Mr Monkey

[Mr A]

Afraid you'd make a few 'dodgey' decisions?

Bloody hell. No wonder you're banned.

[Charlie Darwin]

Unlikely, but not totally impossible. Like it or not, an Irish team qualifying for the Group Stages of Champions' League is the only SCENARIO whereby Irish people will begin to take notice of Irish club football. Improvement of facilities etc is just not going to make a difference. I live in hope. Dublin: capital city, population comparable to Liverpool, Manchester, Munich, should have teams regularly competing in Group Stages. But then again, that would require a leap of imagination by the Dublin sporting public who, historically, prefer to go to Archbishop Croke Park to watch a brutish sport featuring 'athletes' from Laois, Offaly etc. kicking lumps out of each other.
Well I didn't mean that it was impossible, just that the rationale for summer football wasn't that it would definitely get Bohs or whoever into the CL groups, and that's sort of an unreal metric by which to judge the success of summer football.


I also think that if Bohs got money to sustain themselves for years, the league wouldn't be anyway competitive. Either way there's no way I want it to happen.
Do you really think Bohs are capable of putting away cash to sustain themselves for years? They'd blow it all in a year in a massive gamble predicated on reaching the same stage the next season. It's happened to plenty of clubs around Europe that have had similar windfalls.

[SkStu]

Finalised seeding and coefficients.


Seeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- ----------------
Hapoel Tel-Aviv Isr 27.775
Sparta Prague Cze 27.395
Rosenborg BK Nor 23.980
FC Salzburg Aut 19.915
Litex Lovech Bul 15.900
Dinamo Zagreb Cro 14.466
Partizan Belgrade Srb 13.800
BATE Borisov Bls 13.308
Lech Poznan Pol 11.008
MSK Zilina Svk 10.666
Sheriff Tiraspol Mol 5.458
Debrecen Hun 5.350
Omonia Nicosia Cyp 4.599
AIK Stockholm Swe 3.838
Bohemians Dublin Irl 2.908
Ekranas Panevezys Lit 2.683
FK Aktobe Kaz 2.399



Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- ----------------
HJK Helsinki Fin 2.399
Levadia Tallinn Est 2.374
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2.149
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 2.083
Zeljeznicar Bos 1.749
Olimpi Rustavi Geo 1.649
Pyunik Yerevan Arm 1.599
NK Koper Slo 1.391
Inter Baku Azb 1.349
Renova Dzepciste Mac 1.316
Dinamo Tirana Alb 1.049
HB Torshavn Far 0.866
The New Saints Wal 0.766
Linfield Belfast Nir 0.574
Jeunesse d'Esch Lux 0.249
Round 1 Qualifier: Santa Coloma (And)/ Rudar (Mon)/ Birkirkara (Mal) or Champions of San Marino
Round 1 Qualifier: Santa Coloma (And)/ Rudar (Mon)/ Birkirkara (Mal) or Champions of San Marino

[fionnsci]

Goes without saying but the Fins will be the ones to avoid there. FC Haka made mince meat of Cork. What date is the draw, again?

[SkStu]

June 21st...

would like to avoid Pyunik and Baku too (decent quality and travel distance)!

Andorra, Luxembourg, Norniron, Wales or San Marino please!

[SkStu]

FYI, Third Qualifying Round as follows:

The seedings of the third qualifying round are as follow. The team qualified as champions will not be drawn with the teams qualified as non-champions. It is expected to have 30 teams to compete in this round, including 17 winners of the second qualifying round and 10 teams qualified as non-champions:

Champions

Seeded teams
Basel
Anderlecht
Copenhagen
Winners of match involving Hapoel Tel Aviv
Winners of match involving Sparta Prague
Winners of match involving Rosenborg
Winners of match involving Red Bull Salzburg
Winners of match involving Litex Lovech
Winners of match involving Dinamo Zagreb
Winners of match involving Partizan

Unseeded teams
Winners of match involving BATE
Winners of match involving Lech Poznań
Winners of match involving Žilina
Winners of match involving Sheriff Tiraspol
Winners of match involving Debreceni VSC
Winners of match involving Omonia
Winners of match involving AIK
Winners of match involving Bohemians
Winners of match involving Ekranas
Winners of match involving Aktobe


Non-champions
Seeded teams

Zenit St. Petersburg
Ajax
Fenerbahçe
Dynamo Kyiv
Braga
Unseeded teams

Celtic
Unirea Urziceni
PAOK
Young Boys
Gent

[Charlie Darwin]

Looks like it'll be a tough third round draw should they make it that far.

[SkStu]

true. There are two ways to look at it. Hope to pull one of the "easier" teams (Salzburg revenge maybe??) and make it through to the playoff or pull a big name (and hopefully a big gate ;) ) safe in the knowledge that you will go into the Europa League playoff anyway... its a tough one.

[Charlie Darwin]

Rosenberg could be a good draw too. They're probably a little fortunate to be seeded having slipped a lot in the past couple of seasons (although they did win their league last season).

[TheBoss]

Personally, I think Bohs are as good as some of those possible 3rd Round opponents, I think they would have a reasonable chance against Litex Lovech, Rosenborg, Sparta Praha and Hapoel Tel-Aviv. Anderlecht are miles above anyone else in that section, but the others would get a tough game.

[bennocelt]

Finalised seeding and coefficients.



Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- ----------------
HJK Helsinki Fin 2.399
Levadia Tallinn Est 2.374
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2.149
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 2.083
Zeljeznicar Bos 1.749
Olimpi Rustavi Geo 1.649
Pyunik Yerevan Arm 1.599
NK Koper Slo 1.391
Inter Baku Azb 1.349
Renova Dzepciste Mac 1.316
Dinamo Tirana Alb 1.049
HB Torshavn Far 0.866
The New Saints Wal 0.766
Linfield Belfast Nir 0.574
Jeunesse d'Esch Lux 0.249
Round 1 Qualifier: Santa Coloma (And)/ Rudar (Mon)/ Birkirkara (Mal) or Champions of San Marino
Round 1 Qualifier: Santa Coloma (And)/ Rudar (Mon)/ Birkirkara (Mal) or Champions of San Marino


Wud be handy if it was TNS of Wales, nice easy trip, good for co efficients and into next round:)
The next round looks a stinker alright, so much for Plantini making it easier and all that...................

[dong]

Wud be handy if it was TNS of Wales, nice easy trip, good for co efficients and into next round:).....

TNS could easily be as good as Monaghan.

[fionnsci]

Exactly, they're crap!

[Charlie Darwin]

Wud be handy if it was TNS of Wales, nice easy trip, good for co efficients and into next round:)
The next round looks a stinker alright, so much for Plantini making it easier and all that...................
I thought the idea to reform the rounds was to make them harder?

[holidaysong]

Easier for Champions, harder for non-Champions. Hence the reason that both groups are now split.

[bennocelt]

Easier for Champions, harder for non-Champions. Hence the reason that both groups are now split.


But you could argue that it isnt really simplier. First in belgium etc is difficult, but if you were up against the third/fourth in Belgium?

[The Lep]

Exactly, they're crap!

TNS would give Bohs a harder game than they realise.

[SkStu]

than who realises?

reminds me of the old Jeff Stelling quote... "and they'll be dancing in the streets of total network solutions tonight!" :D

[The Lep]

Reminds you? or did you do a google ? :) Its been upgraded to The New Saints now :). There is a touch of Derry city about them as they are a border side playing in England.

[SkStu]

no, i didnt do a google and i knew they about the new name (didnt realise they were in England though!) - they've been talked about on our mb quite a bit since theyve become possible opponents... maybe thats where i read the quote... :) either way its a classic!

[pineapple stu]

But you could argue that it isnt really simplier. First in belgium etc is difficult, but if you were up against the third/fourth in Belgium?
You wouldn't be up against third/fourth in Belgium. Partly because they don't get into the CL, and partly because of the seeding. Look at the clubs the LoI faced or were drawn to face if they'd advanced - Depor (twice, I think), Sparta, Lille. Compare that to Salzburg and you can see how it's a bit easier.

[topia]

You wouldn't be up against third/fourth in Belgium. Partly because they don't get into the CL, and partly because of the seeding. Look at the clubs the LoI faced or were drawn to face if they'd advanced - Depor (twice, I think), Sparta, Lille. Compare that to Salzburg and you can see how it's a bit easier.


Lille were in the Uefa after shelbourne were beaten by Depor werent they? pyunik, steaua bucharest, rosenborg, halmstad are teams i can think of that have beaten Irish qualifiers in recent times and i dont think Salzburg in their current form are easier than any of them to be honest considering their huge budget, and the fact that they went on to take 18 points from 18 points in a Europa League group containing Lazio and Villareal.

[holidaysong]

The argument is that it's easier to play the champions of countries like Belgium, Norway or Serbia than playing the third and fourth placed teams from countries like England, Germany and Spain.

Under the old system, Shels (national champions) got drawn against Deportivo (non-champions) in the final qualifying round, as these types of clubs were always seeded higher than most of the actual champions. Under the new system, Bohemians 'only' need to beat the likes of Anderlecht, Rosenborg and Partizan Belgrade to get into the group stages rather than the likes of Tottenham, Werder Bremen and Sevilla.

[bennocelt]

The argument is that it's easier to play the champions of countries like Belgium, Norway or Serbia than playing the third and fourth placed teams from countries like England, Germany and Spain.

Under the old system, Shels (national champions) got drawn against Deportivo (non-champions) in the final qualifying round, as these types of clubs were always seeded higher than most of the actual champions. Under the new system, Bohemians 'only' need to beat the likes of Anderlecht, Rosenborg and Partizan Belgrade to get into the group stages rather than the likes of Tottenham, Werder Bremen and Sevilla.

yeah or the 3/4 from Portugal, Holland, Turkey, Greece?
Swings and roundaouts :)

[Schumi]

I don't think this new system makes it much easier for the likes of the LOI champions. It was more aimed at helping the champions of countries like Denmark, Austria or Bulgaria get into the group stages by avoiding teams like Liverpool or Valencia.

[holidaysong]

yeah or the 3/4 from Portugal, Holland, Turkey, Greece?
Swings and roundaouts :)

None of those countries get three, never mind four clubs in the Champions League.

[pineapple stu]

Lille were in the Uefa after shelbourne were beaten by Depor werent they?
You're right; mea culpa. Ditto Sparta.

But these -


pyunik, steaua bucharest, rosenborg, halmstad are teams i can think of that have beaten Irish qualifiers in recent times
- are all teams who LoI clubs played in rounds 1 and 2. I was looking at who you face in the final round before the groups. They're slightly less daunting this way.