New Setanta format

[Graemerz]

Four Carling Premiership clubs take on League of Ireland opposition on a home and away basis. The winning teams progress to the next round, where a further two clubs from each side of the border join the draw. Quarter finals, semi finals operate on a two legged basis with a one off final.

[danthesaint]

Four Carling Premiership clubs take on League of Ireland opposition on a home and away basis. The winning teams progress to the next round, where a further two clubs from each side of the border join the draw. Quarter finals, semi finals operate on a two legged basis with a one off final.

is that based over 2 groups or what
who or what determines who go in at the start and who comes in later, i take it league position??

your man on setanta said this was all to be announced or discussed in a couple of weeks time

[crc]

It looks like a striaght knock-out, with no group stage. Presumably that means twelve teams in total (?). The four teams that join in the second round will probably be the league and cup winners (?)
This format seems OK, but I don't think that all the tinkering is a good idea. They should pick a format and stick with it for a couple of years.

[Dodge]

It looks like a striaght knock-out, with no group stage. Presumably that means twelve teams in total (?). The four teams that join in the second round will probably be the league and cup winners (?)
This format seems OK, but I don't think that all the tinkering is a good idea. They should pick a format and stick with it for a couple of years.

Well in fairness they did stick with it for a couple of years, and it desperately does need changing.

I'd imagine they'll continue with top 6 league finishers (or top 5 + holder) with top 2 (or top 1 + holder) getting bye in first round

[Mr A]

The new format looks a lot better. I don't think this competition has the status to be taking precedence over league games on weekends though- it really should be put back to being a midweek competition.

[Dodge]

Jaysus I totally forgot that teams qualified by winning FAI Cup (or runners up if the lost to champions) or League Cup (but not runners up)

By my reckoning that means the LOI qualifiers would be

Bohs (league winners), Fingal (cup winners), Rovers, Dundalk, Sligo, Pats (replacing Cork)

[marinobohs]

The new format looks a lot better. I don't think this competition has the status to be taking precedence over league games on weekends though- it really should be put back to being a midweek competition.

To be honest the format was in need of a change ! Bohs first crack at it this year and the interest/crowds have been very disappointing (especially as I am a firm believer in the All Ireland league model). Midweek competition is a problem for the Northern teams given the unusually long travel (for them) and the part time nature of the League (this is an increasing factor down here now).
Breaking the current competition over two seasons is a disaster, personally think a shorter knock out competition is better option. But it should be played at times to maximise interest (which in my view means weekends) if the competition is to develop.

[total hoofball]

I would scrap the competition. I never developed any interest in it from day one as I don't care about teams from Northern Ireland and going by the attendances I'm certainly not the only one. It's also an unnecessary drain of an extra 4 to 7 competitive matches on sides competing in European competition.

Let the respective champions from each country play in a one-off match and leave it at that.

[Dodge]

Let the respective champions from each country play in a one-off match and leave it at that.

But why have that unnessacry game at all then?

Clubs make money on the competition, thats why they participate in it. As soon as they stop making money, they'll stop. They don't see it as a "drain" despite what 1/2 managers consistently moan

[SMorgan]

I would scrap the competition.....

Have to agree. The Northern clubs aren't one bit interested.

[ifk101]

Have to agree. The Northern clubs aren't one bit interested.

Not good enough more like. It's only Linfield and, to a lesser extent, Glentoran that have been able to mount any sort of challenge to the LOI clubs. I rather see the number of team places allocated to Irish League clubs divided between Irish League teams and teams from the League of Wales. I think the idea of All-Ireland champions has run it's course so maybe the organisers should be looking at making the competition more competitive rather than messing around with the format. AFAIK the top couple of clubs in Wales are full-time professionals and the League of Wales has a higher European ranking than the Irish League so I think they could help in improving the overall standard of the Setanta Cup.

[Macy]

A knock out is the way to go, the group stages never generated the interest with too many games against clubs from their own league. At least it was this competition, rather than a total restructuring of both leagues, that showed that an All Ireland League can be crossed off the the silver bullet list of generating interest in domestic football - we could have been at this stage after throwing our lot in with a private marketing group!

[Martinho II]

so has it being confirmed that the format of the setanta cup will be changin as the first post isnt very clear...

[marinobohs]

Not good enough more like. It's only Linfield and, to a lesser extent, Glentoran that have been able to mount any sort of challenge to the LOI clubs. I rather see the number of team places allocated to Irish League clubs divided between Irish League teams and teams from the League of Wales. I think the idea of All-Ireland champions has run it's course so maybe the organisers should be looking at making the competition more competitive rather than messing around with the format. AFAIK the top couple of clubs in Wales are full-time professionals and the League of Wales has a higher European ranking than the Irish League so I think they could help in improving the overall standard of the Setanta Cup.

Would love to see this idea developed - a celtic (not the scottish club !!) League involving LOI, Northern teams, Welsh and maybe a few Scottish. Think it would develop an increased interest (although no silver bullet for mad spending). The current model appears to be lapsing but I would not like to see it chucked out. Setanta have put money up and I think it is better to try fix it than give up on the idea.

[pineapple stu]

What do you think Llanelli or Rhyl would add to the competition? (No disrespect to any of the Welsh sides).

Why do you think Dundee or Dunfermline would be remotely interested in joining the competition?

[thischarmingman]

Scrap the Northern and the Southern League Cups and replace them with an all-Ireland league cup style competition comprising the top two tiers- open draw, one legged knockout, plenty of scope for upsets. Bohs could draw Institute; Linfıeld, Athlone. Depending on the draw, clubs in the First Divisions could be a handful of games from an all-Ireland semi.

[marinobohs]

(1) What do you think Llanelli or Rhyl would add to the competition? (No disrespect to any of the Welsh sides).

(2) Why do you think Dundee or Dunfermline would be remotely interested in joining the competition?

(1) Variety for starters - braoden the pool and possibly (mid to longer term) improve stanadards in both leagues

(2) Ask them. They may not but then again.......

[cob655]

Scrap the Northern and the Southern League Cups and replace them with an all-Ireland league cup style competition comprising the top two tiers- open draw, one legged knockout, plenty of scope for upsets. Bohs could draw Institute; Linfıeld, Athlone. Depending on the draw, clubs in the First Divisions could be a handful of games from an all-Ireland semi.

I think it would add alot more interest to the competition as it wouldnt only be about 8 or so teams,it would be a full all-ireland compition and therefore should add alot more interest from all..

[Spudulika]

One problem that seems to keep cropping up is the matter of seasonal timing. Unless the Irish League changes to summer football or ours to winter, there will be a difficulty. The old Soviet Champions League competition is being revived (from being a run out for Russia reserve teams) and this could be of interest to Setanta - in terms of format. It is believed they will run it on a straight knock out during a 3 x 1 week periods that coincide with International breaks in the spring and early summer - so that all clubs are satisfied.

[Dodge]

The only thing Scottish or welsh teams would add is cost, and Irish clubs won't agree to it.

[A N Mouse]

The only thing Scottish or welsh teams would add is cost, and Irish clubs won't agree to it.

Also, and correct me if i'm wrong, but setanta aren't exactly going to sell many subs to people in scotland or wales.

[Dillonman]

Today's Star has the following teams down:

From the LOI 2009 Season:
Bohs(Champs), Rovers(Runners Up) Fingal(FAI Cup winners) and Dundalk(club with highest league position not hit with licencing sanctions)

From the Irish League 2008-2009 Season:
Linfield, Glentoran, Crusadors and Portadown.

All these to compete with 2 from each league's current seaosn to be added.

[Schumi]

Dundalk (club with highest league position not hit with licencing sanctions)You can almost see this wording being in the qualifying rules. :)

[marinobohs]

You can almost see this wording being in the qualifying rules. :)

I know the rules were posted here before but can anyone remind me if SETANTA is an invitation competition or could a club like Cork, for example, claim a place on basis of League finish ?

[marley]

Are Cork Foras CoOp a brand new club, if so would this be their first year in existance so the now defunct Cork City's results last year have nothing to do with them

[marinobohs]

Are Cork Foras CoOp a brand new club, if so would this be their first year in existance so the now defunct Cork City's results last year have nothing to do with them

Good point and was not seeking to ignite the Cork issue again. I was wondering if it is an invitation competition (with invites at discretionl of SETANTA) or is qualification specific to League/Cup competitions ?

[Dodge]

Qualification is clearly stated (well for the last couple of seasons anyway) , but the competition has its own rules committee and competitors are invited to apply (similar to the way UEFA and European competitions work).

[RoversHead]

Scrap the Northern and the Southern League Cups and replace them with an all-Ireland league cup style competition comprising the top two tiers- open draw, one legged knockout, plenty of scope for upsets. Bohs could draw Institute; Linfıeld, Athlone. Depending on the draw, clubs in the First Divisions could be a handful of games from an all-Ireland semi.Now add a Eoropa league spot for the winners and you have a great comp.

[Dodge]

There'll never be a European spot for it.

(But I'm all in favour of all teams been involved (or at least all prem teams) and it been a straight knock out tournament

[marinobohs]

May have been posted elsewhere but this years final (Bohs V Pats) has been confirmed for 6.30 KO on May 15th in Tallaght.