Carl Magnay

[Deckydee]

Gents,

Confusing this one.

Born in England, eligible to represent Northern Ireland, represented Northern Ireland at U-21 level after first hesitating when approached by England. Quit Northern Ireland by text message, now wants to play for us.

:confused:

Could he be our new left back?

Source: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/back-off-our-players-ifa-warn-english-14748583.html

Player: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Magnay

[boovidge]

He's got a massive injury at the moment. If he does want to play for us it's a bit strange that he said that he wanted to play for England.

[Junior]

An April fool perhaps?:D Either that or Conor Clifford has been bending his ear.....

In March 2010 Magnay suffered a severe injury in a recent Chelsea reserve game, reportedly damaging an anterior cruciate ligament, damage to the medial collateral ligament, and an issue with a cracked kneecap

Doesnt look like he'll be playing much football for a while!!

[Predator]

I think Magnay's preferred position is centre back, but when he played with the NI 21s he was shifted out to left back to accommodate a 17 year old Shane Duffy in the centre. If he does opt to play for us, I can't see him being our new left back, or featuring in our defence at all. The injury is unfortunate, but I'm almost sure the 'cracked kneecap' part was added in by someone who posts on OWC.

[Charlie Darwin]

Sounds like he might change his mind another 3 times before he settles on a side.

[Crosby87]

Who is he? Our new left back? when? In 2050?
April Fools is a funny thing; then you wonder if some posters drink April's KoolAid sooner rather than later.
Then its kinda lame.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm not so sure Magnay actually qualifies to play for us given that his grandparents were born in Northern Ireland, which is not the territory of the FAI.

Regarding the acquisition of a new nationality, FIFA statutes on eligibility (pages 67-69 of http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/01/24/fifastatuten2009_e.pdf) say:


17 Acquisition of a new nationality

Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfi ls one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

Indeed, I think Magnay would be entitled to acquire Irish citizenship, judging by the information provided here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent

However, even if he did acquire Irish citizenship through his northern-born grandparents, he still doesn't satisfy one of those four aforementioned criteria as Northern Ireland isn't the territory of the FAI.

[irishfan86]

I don't think your logic holds up Danny....all our Northern born players weren't "born in the territory of the FAI," as you say, but they are eligible to play for us. If he's eligible for citizenship/passport, he's eligible to play for us as far as I know....

[seanfhear]

I hope the lad makes a full recovery and has a good career regardless of everything else.

[geysir]

I don't think your logic holds up Danny....all our Northern born players weren't "born in the territory of the FAI," as you say, but they are eligible to play for us. If he's eligible for citizenship/passport, he's eligible to play for us as far as I know....
Probably something like that, though Danny's question/logic is supported by the text of that eligibility rule.
Afaiaa, when FIFA refer to an association territory, they do refer to the exact area that an association has jurisdiction in.
When it comes to international eligibility, due to their previous rulings on Bruce's eligibility, one has to guess or reasonably guess what they mean by the association territory.
The birth or residency in association territory appears to include all the territory that national eligibility stretches to .

We can rest assured that the IFA are too wrapped up in their contradictions to suss out that that particular text, in the FIFA eligibility statutes referring to association territory, is open to a possible challenge re Mangay's eligibility for us.

[Razors left peg]

Is this eligibity issue not being discussed at ridiculous lenght on the other thread, really really hope we dont need a 2nd thread for it

[boovidge]

I know it gets tiresome but I think it's appropriate in a thread about Carl Magnay to discuss whether he is eligible for us and whether he wants to play for us.

[tricky_colour]

Well it seems, he is probably not eligible, is not good enough for Milton Keynes, is prone to brawling. and is crocked.
Sign him up!!

[irishfan86]

Well it seems, he is probably not eligible, is not good enough for Milton Keynes, is prone to brawling. and is crocked.
Sign him up!!

He's only 21, and the brawl you mention was a team-wide thing as far as I know.

I don't know anything about it him, but you seem to be judging without even knowing the guy. Who knows what his story is?

[geysir]

Is this eligibity issue not being discussed at ridiculous lenght on the other thread, really really hope we dont need a 2nd thread for it
Ye of little faith.
We want to know if he is eligible so we can include him in our bedtime prayers.

[tricky_colour]

He's only 21, and the brawl you mention was a team-wide thing as far as I know.

I don't know anything about it him, but you seem to be judging without even knowing the guy. Who knows what his story is?


OK I exaggerated that for effect, but I think he has some way to go before he can be considered an option at left back, but good luck to him in recovering from injury and in playing for Ireland should he ever do so.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't think your logic holds up Danny....all our Northern born players weren't "born in the territory of the FAI," as you say, but they are eligible to play for us. If he's eligible for citizenship/passport, he's eligible to play for us as far as I know....

I've explained my reasoning here (http://foot.ie/threads/132063-Should-we-stop-recruiting-NI-players?p=1342862&viewfull=1#post1342862) in the thread discussing the eligibility of those born in the north. To quote what I said there:


A single and simple all-encompassing ruling like that doesn't exist. The relevant statutes here - articles 15 to 18 - are quoted on the previous page.

Those born in the north (and, presumably, persons born to an Irish parent anywhere, as those born of an Irish national are automatically conferred with Irish citizenship from birth) qualify to play for us under article 15. Article 17, however, comes into play in circumstances where a player not entitled to Irish citizenship by birth (or, I assume, by descent via parentage), but rather, by applying through descent via grand-parentage, acquires a new nationality.

Whilst article 17 refers to the territory of the FAI, eligibility under article 15 has nothing to do with territory or jurisdiction, but rather strictly nationality, and seeing as Ireland offers citizenship extra-territorially as a birthright to those born in the north (save for the exceptions introduced by the twenty-seventh constitutional amendment in 2004), this enables those born in Northern Ireland represent us under article 15 despite not being born within the jurisdiction of the FAI.

For a player who acquires new citizenship through grand-parentage and is deemed an Irish citizen from the date of acquisition, the criteria in article 17 stipulate that these grandparents must have been born in the territory of of FAI.

For that reason, I don't believe that a player like Carl Magnay, who was born in England and whose link to Ireland is via grandparents born in Northern Ireland, is eligible to play for us despite being perfectly entitled to apply for Irish citizenship (assuming his grandparents were also Irish citizens), unless FIFA would interpret Northern Ireland as constituting the territory of the FAI due to the fact that Irish citizenship can be conferred to those born there, but I don't find that likely seeing as the IFA already claim jurisdiction over that territory. The discrepancy arises in the statutes because Irish citizenship is granted extra-territorially to those born in Northern Ireland. For Magnay to qualify to play for us, I imagine article 17 would have to allow for his grandparents merely to have held Irish citizenship as opposed to demanding the stricter condition that they had been born in the territory of the FAI. The legal rules governing the extension of Irish citizenship don't require that those entitled to it be born within the territory of the Irish state. That's the fundamental difference.

Hope that clears it up. Just my thinking on it, certainly, but it's based on a fairly literal interpretation of the statutes and I'm not sure how you could read article 17 in any other way. Maybe FIFA enforce a looser, "common sense" application in relation to Ireland to keep it in line with our extra-territorial nationality law. I don't know. It would be interesting to know. Geysir mentions Alex Bruce, of course, whose circumstances were identical to Magnay's - Bruce's grandmother was from Bangor - yet Bruce has already represented us at full international level. To be honest, I can't really understand how, but can only assume, as geysir does, that FIFA apply their rules using common sense here.


Is this eligibity issue not being discussed at ridiculous lenght on the other thread, really really hope we dont need a 2nd thread for it

I suppose you could say this is a different eligibility issue entirely. The question of Magnay's eligibility relates to article 17 of the FIFA statutes, whereas the question of the eligibility of those born in Northern Ireland to play for us relates to article 15 (or, indeed, article 16 according to both the very misguided and the IFA). Different eligibility criteria apply to the two distinct set of circumstances. I don't disagree with your sentiment, mind you. :)

[Gather round]

I hope the lad makes a full recovery and has a good career regardless of everything else

Fhear, fhear.

[Charlie Darwin]

In the conference at Gateshead now, but there's an interesting little interview with him on this Chelsea blog about his time at Chelsea which could also explain some of the difficulties Conor Clifford has faced:

http://shedlowerblue.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/magnay-my-time-at-chelsea.html

[samhaydenjr]

I'm sure Eamon Dunphy is right now preparing to show us all the video of him scoring against "the mighty Barrow FC" so that he can castigate Trapattoni for not picking him yet