Questions about fomer LOI clubs

[Tony Soprano]

What memories do you have of Home Farm, St Francis, St James' Gate, Newcastlewest, Thurles Town etc

What type of crowds did these teams get ?

Drumcondra are probably the biggest team to have left the LOI - how did the size of their support compare to Rovers, Bohs, Shelbourne and Pats ?

Going further back in time, anyone know anything about all those former LOI teams from Dublin - Jacobs, Dolphin, Brideville, Brooklyn, Pioneers

There were two teams from Cork in the LOI for almost 30 years (until the late 70s) - anyone know what the Cork derbies were like ? I'm assuming there was some type of geographic division between the supporters of the two clubs ?

Does the current Cork club draw fans from the "catchment areas" of both of the old teams, or could it be considered to be more the continuation of one of the old teams ?

[drummerboy]

In the fifties and 60s Drums got huge crowds. Tolka was always near full in them days, or so I'm told. Even though the crowds dwindled in the late 60s and early 70s, they would be considered very healthy crowds in these days. Drums and Rovers were the best supported teams in those days. Bohs were amateurs in those days and didn't really command big crowds as far as I know.

[Onefootednopace]

What memories do you have of Home Farm, St Francis, St James' Gate, Newcastlewest, Thurles Town etc

What type of crowds did these teams get ?

Drumcondra are probably the biggest team to have left the LOI - how did the size of their support compare to Rovers, Bohs, Shelbourne and Pats ?

Going further back in time, anyone know anything about all those former LOI teams from Dublin - Jacobs, Dolphin, Brideville, Brooklyn, Pioneers

There were two teams from Cork in the LOI for almost 30 years (until the late 70s) - anyone know what the Cork derbies were like ? I'm assuming there was some type of geographic division between the supporters of the two clubs ?

Does the current Cork club draw fans from the "catchment areas" of both of the old teams, or could it be considered to be more the continuation of one of the old teams ?

I remember Cork City played St Francis in the FAI cup at Turners Cross around 1996/1997. Did St Francis merge with St Pats at some stage during the 90's?

[Ash]

What memories do you have of Home Farm, St Francis, St James' Gate, Newcastlewest, Thurles Town etc

What type of crowds did these teams get ?


My brief memory of St. Francis was sitting on a bus for ages to get out to John Hyland Park! Crowd was poor enough.
While I was waiting for a bus back into town after the match, Athlone Town legend Jan Fitzell spotted me and gave me a lift.

[CMcC]

Bohs fans' memories of St Francis would not be positive. Thats the kindest way I can put it without using a lot of bad language!!

[Dalymountrower]

In the fifties and 60s Drums got huge crowds. Tolka was always near full in them days, or so I'm told. Even though the crowds dwindled in the late 60s and early 70s, they would be considered very healthy crowds in these days. Drums and Rovers were the best supported teams in those days. Bohs were amateurs in those days and didn't really command big crowds as far as I know.

I was brought to see Drums as a kid in the late 60`s early 70`s as I lived 5 mins away, probably equivalent to Shel`s crowds now. A lot of misty eyed false memories about Drums, they died a death because of the crap crowds not because Home Farm took them over.
I certainly don`t remember Rovers having huge crowds in the 70`s other than for the Dublin Derbies.
Cork Celtic/Hibs would have been the big derby game back then, with 10-15,000 crowds.

[pineapple stu]

My brief memory of St. Francis was sitting on a bus for ages to get out to John Hyland Park! Crowd was poor enough.
I was never at a St Francis game, but I remember a brief Irish football magazine called kickin', which gave line-ups and attendances for every LoI game in the previous month; St Francis' crowds would often be in the 30-50 range.

[Pablo Escobar]

There were two teams from Cork in the LOI for almost 30 years (until the late 70s) - anyone know what the Cork derbies were like ? I'm assuming there was some type of geographic division between the supporters of the two clubs ?

Does the current Cork club draw fans from the "catchment areas" of both of the old teams, or could it be considered to be more the continuation of one of the old teams ?

I wasn't around back then but there are lots of stories of huge crowds in both Turners Cross and Flower Lodge and of course the Mardyke when Cork Athletic used to play Evergreen. Cork Celtic mainly drew support from the South Inner City, Turners Cross, Ballyphehane, Greenmount, Pouladuff and Togher. Cork Hibs were the bigger club and would generally pull support from everywhere else. Obviously this is a generealisation, but may give you an idea.

[Dodge]

St Francis came into the League to replace St james gate, who replaced Newcastlewest (who changed their name from Newcastle United)

They didn't merge with Pats. Before the 2001/02 season a merger was proposed, and St Francis withdrew from the League to pursue this but it never actually happened. Alan Duncan, the guy who decided to kill them as a LOI club, was on the board of Shamrock Rovers within months (and nearly killed them too)

[Declanus]

Didn't George Best play briefly for one of the Cork Clubs. They only played him at home games because they didn't want rival teams gaining financially from any potential large gate at away matches.

[fionnsci]

By the by, fo Kilkenny City still exist in any form? Are there any long term plans? (Surely theres room in the A Championship)

[pineapple stu]

They were in last year's U-20 league, but folded again half way through.

(Not sure if folded is the correct term; certainly they pulled out)

[De Town]

I remember going to see De Town play in John Hyland Park against St.Francis. Crowd was about 50 I'd say, Town won 3-0. The playing surface was immaculate there though, unbelievable good pitch. I also remember leading 2-0 at home to St.Francis with 9 minutes to go and losing 3-2. Ah those were the days. Also remember going to Whitehall to see us play Home Farm. Awful kip of a place.

[historynut]

Have some old IFA handbooks from late 50's early 60's that give some FAI league and Cup details that makes some interesting details. -
1956/57 fFAI final @ Daly Drums 2-0 Shams atd 30,000, Leinster Cup Final @ Daly Shams 2-0 Drums atd 20,000

[Ash]

They didn't merge with Pats. Before the 2001/02 season a merger was proposed, and St Francis withdrew from the League to pursue this but it never actually happened.

Did Pats have a season with the St. Francis crest on the sleeve? Either that or it was just a bloke I saw with the crest sewn on


The playing surface was immaculate there though, unbelievable good pitch.
Yep, it was like a carpet the time I was there. Again I could well be wrong but I'm nearly sure it was mooted it would be Pats training pitch if the merger went through


Also remember going to Whitehall to see us play Home Farm. Awful kip of a place.
The bar in Whitehall was decent enough

[Dodge]

Yeah, pats started the season with the Francis crest on the sleeve with Dolan constantly refereing to the club as Dublin Saints (ugh!!!!) but by half way through the seaosn all mentions of them stopped, and only residual stuff remained. Not a great year to be a Pats fan (off the pitch)

Part of Dolan's masterplan was for us to get John Hyland park. Luckily the trustees at St Francis held the ground seperately 9in trust) so it couldn't be touched.

[Onefootednopace]

Yeah, pats started the season with the Francis crest on the sleeve with Dolan constantly refereing to the club as Dublin Saints (ugh!!!!) but by half way through the seaosn all mentions of them stopped, and only residual stuff remained. Not a great year to be a Pats fan (off the pitch)

Part of Dolan's masterplan was for us to get John Hyland park. Luckily the trustees at St Francis held the ground seperately 9in trust) so it couldn't be touched.

Thanks for the info Dodge, I remember reading about such a situation between the two clubs but I lost track of what the eventual outcome was.

As a matter of interest, what level are St Francis competing at these days?

[Dodge]

Leinster Senior League. Not very high up in it either.

They have a strong schoolboy section though. While originally based in the Liberties (Francis st...), they're very much part of the Clondalkin schoolboy scene.

The poster soccerc might give you more accurate info if you need it

[Onefootednopace]

Leinster Senior League. Not very high up in it either.

They have a strong schoolboy section though. While originally based in the Liberties (Francis st...), they're very much part of the Clondalkin schoolboy scene.

The poster soccerc might give you more accurate info if you need it

Cheers Dodge, thanks for the info.

[Dillonman]

My memories of St Francis where hammering them all the time!First time I saw them play us we beat them 7nil!

What happened to James Gate and Drumcondra?

[pineapple stu]

Drumcondra went bust and are back in the LSL now; they were in the FAI Cup in 2004 (lost 5-0 to UCD).

Ditto St James' Gate, I think, apart from the FAI Cup bit.

[Schumi]

Drumcondra and James' Gate are both midtable in the third tier of the LSL.

[bad mongo]

Drumcondra and James' Gate are both midtable in the third tier of the LSL.

Don't Forget Transport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_F.C.

still in the LSL AFAIK

[Dodge]

St James gate were also shafted by moneymen in their second stint in the league. They used to geta handful of people watching them in the Iveagh Grounds but new board (who I think were connected to a company called Premier Computers or something like that) wanted to turn them into a "powerhouse". Decided they'd play out of Tolka Park, and pumped a decent bit into the team. Left them with a mountain of debt after less than a year. Dominic Foley played for them around this time. (Have fond memories of Ricky O'DFlaherty scoring his first goal for Pats againt the Gate iun Tolka in August (ish) 95.

[PartySaint]

Does anyone remember Cork City or the old Derry City?? Them were the days

[Dalymountrower]

Drumcondra went bust and are back in the LSL now; they were in the FAI Cup in 2004 (lost 5-0 to UCD).

.

Drumcondra "merged" with Home Farm in 1972/73 to become Home Farm/Drumcondra, the following season they became Home Farm and then theoretically remained in existence through Home Farm/Everton and Dublin City, before going out of existence with that club

The club now styling itself as Drumcondra has neither seed or breed connection with the original club.

[Mr A]

Drumcondra "merged" with Home Farm in 1972/73 to become Home Farm/Drumcondra, the following season they became Home Farm and then theoretically remained in existence through Home Farm/Everton and Dublin City, before going out of existence with that club

The club now styling itself as Drumcondra has neither seed or breed connection with the original club.

I thought Home Farm/Everton were technically a different club to Home Farm though? Didn't they even meet in the cup once? So you could say that Drumcondra still exist through the current guise of Home Farm.

If you really wanted to.

[Dodge]

The LOI Home Farm were initially an extension of the schoolboy set up (keeping same kits, badges etc). To provide an avenue for their multiple schoolboy "graduates" they also operated several intermediate and junior sides in the Leinster Senior League. The merger with Drumcondra pushed the LOI side away from schoolboy set up but it was still the one club until the mid 90s when all they shared was the name. They were known as Home farm Everton purely for Sponsorship reasons and no official club link was ever established. They also became known as Home farm Fingal for at least one season. After they folded, Dublin City was formed from their embers but were a completely new club, renting Whitehall from the original Home Farm 9before moving on to Richmond and Dalymount)

The Home Farm adult sides still exist in the LSL

[the 12 th man]

[QUOTE=Dillonman;1341126]What happened to James Gate QUOTE]


Between 1991 & 1993 when they were in the League Of Ireland they had crowds of between 50-200 ,they're still around playing in the LSL or the AUL and still play their games in Iveagh Groiunds.

[pineapple stu]

I thought Home Farm/Everton were technically a different club to Home Farm though? Didn't they even meet in the cup once?
They did, yeah, sometime in the late 90s I think? Game was played in Tolka as I recall. Have a vague notion the league side won 2-0 or 3-2, but could be completely making that up.

[Schumi]

They did, yeah, sometime in the late 90s I think? Game was played in Tolka as I recall. Have a vague notion the league side won 2-0 or 3-2, but could be completely making that up.3-1 I'm pretty sure. No idea how I remember that!

[Mr A]

From Wikipedia:


Between 1995 and 1999 they played as Home Farm Everton before a spilt within the club saw the formation of Home Farm Fingal.

[gspain]

The original St. James Gate were a big player in the league. They won the double in 21/2 and the league as late as 1940 before going out of football in 1944.

They would have been very well supported too.

Drums were well supported too but crowds dwindled alarmingly in the late 60's and the Prole family decided to stop subsidising them (or couldn't afford to continue). I believe there was some bad blood
subsequently as promises by Home Farm were not kept.

soccerc can give the lowdown on Francis. I saw them quite a bit v Limerick and don't recall any big crowds but higher than 50 in fairness except maybe the last season.

Thurles were well supported at first but again nobody at the Limerick game in 81/2. Cahir, Clonmel or Tipp Town might have been better bets as all have a much stronger football tradition.

Cork Hibs bwere a huge club and a glamour side but left football in 1976 with money in the bank.

Newxastlewest was probably just too small to support senior football.

Cork Celtic had big crowds but by the late 70's had no fans. I was at the Limerick game in their last season and the crowd was approx 50 from memory with my Dad being the only other away fan. Cork united & the Aloberts were also poorly supported. City were the first team to come close to decent crowds in Cork since Hibs and Celtic in their heyday.

[D.24saint]

I remember hearing that crowds started going down big time when ITV started their The Big Match programme in 68 within a few years LOI attendances dwindled.

[historynut]

Re St James Gate and big crowds, according to history of Sligo Rovers in the 1930's they played a FAI Cup replay at Iveagh grounds with a crowd of 17000. Believe it may have the one that was on a clip of Pathe news (was that not on here a while back ?). Seems hard to imagine at their ground.
There is, is there not a book that documents the decline of crowds at Irish Football during the 60's & 70's as a result of the introduction of the dreaded box in the corner (or today main wall feature !).

[the 12 th man]

There is, is there not a book that documents the decline of crowds at Irish Football during the 60's & 70's as a result of the introduction of the dreaded box in the corner (or today main wall feature !).

Who Stole Our Game? (The Fall & Fall Of Irish Soccer) by Daire Whelan.

[the 12 th man]

Ditto St James' Gate, I think, apart from the FAI Cup bit.

They got to the semi final in 1992 when they were beaten 2-0 (after a replay) by Bohemians (Joe Lawless got the first one).

[pineapple stu]

I meant after their demise specifically.

[GUFCghost]

Are there many clubs that changed their names?(eg galway rovers to galway united)

[razor]

There were two teams from Cork in the LOI for almost 30 years (until the late 70s) - anyone know what the Cork derbies were like ? I'm assuming there was some type of geographic division between the supporters of the two clubs ?

Does the current Cork club draw fans from the "catchment areas" of both of the old teams, or could it be considered to be more the continuation of one of the old teams ?From what i've been told, Hibs were seen mainly as the northside club and Celtic the southside club. I'd need someone older to clarify this though.

Citys fans are from all over the City and County.

[Dodge]

Are there many clubs that changed their names?(eg galway rovers to galway united)
Not really. Some changed their name after the original club went bust eg Waterford to Waterford Utd, Cork City to Cork city for a scoop. Limerick is mesier than most and at needs someone like gspain to explain it.

[osarusan]

Limerick is mesier than most and at needs someone like gspain to explain it.

Limerick (1937) - Limerick United (1977)- Limerick City (1983)- Limerick FC (1990) - Limerick 37* (2007)- Limerick FC (2009).

It's with the * that the issue of whether it's the same club or a new club comes up.

I think this is right, but yeah, gspain would be the man for a full answer.

[Schumi]

Are there many clubs that changed their names?(eg galway rovers to galway united)
Cork teams have had a load of name changes. Fordsons -> Cork FC -> Cork City I -> Cork United I; Albert Rovers -> Cork Alberts -> Cork United II -> Cork Athletic. Most of these were probably down to clubs going bust as Dodge said.

[drummerboy]

Drumcondra "merged" with Home Farm in 1972/73 to become Home Farm/Drumcondra, the following season they became Home Farm and then theoretically remained in existence through Home Farm/Everton and Dublin City, before going out of existence with that club

The club now styling itself as Drumcondra has neither seed or breed connection with the original club.

Incorrect. Drumcondra in the LSL are in possession of the deeds of the original club. They were re-formed by a group of Drumcondra supporters in the late seventies/early eighties after the disastrous merger with Home Farm/Drumcondra who dropped the Drumcondra connection after the first season.

[gspain]

Re Limerick, Limerick FC or Limerick AFC (seen both) from 1937 to 1979.

Name change to Limerick United.

New club Limerick City in 1983 incl colour change from blue to yellow/green and left Markets Field for Rathbane. Considered the same by most fans.

Name change back to Limerick FC and colour change back to blue in 1989/90 - new comoany but again same fans etc.

Name change but new company again 2007 - Limerick 37 then new company again back to Limerick FC.

[Dodge]

Limerick (1937) - Limerick United (1977)- Limerick City (1983)- Limerick FC (1990) - Limerick 37* (2007)- Limerick FC (2009).

It's with the * that the issue of whether it's the same club or a new club comes up.

I think this is right, but yeah, gspain would be the man for a full answer.

Isn't there something about 2 seperate committees fighting to run the league team (around about the demise of Limrick utd and rise of Limerick City? (Or possibly around the change to Limerick utd?)

[osarusan]

Isn't there something about 2 seperate committees fighting to run the league team (around about the demise of Limrick utd and rise of Limerick City? (Or possibly around the change to Limerick utd?)
Couldn't tell you to be honest.

[passerrby]

what ever happened to derry city

[Spudulika]

Back in 1995 I was training and in the reserves with "The Gate" and Wikipedia is correct about the "lofty ambitions" bit, and Premier were shirt sponsors. However the problem was that while those of us who were deemed squad players were to be paid boot money, they decided to get some big names in like Paul Byrne (who was over for training) to give us a boost. A friend of mine signed with them and told me that the whole deal collapsed over a £10,000 bond that was unpaid to the league. It was a great club with good facilities and they had a good notion of where they wanted to be, yet nothing is ever simple in the LOI and they were shafted.

Played in John Hyland Park, absolutely beautiful surface.

[the 12 th man]

[QUOTE=Spudulika;1341619]Back in 1995 I was training and in the reserves with "The Gate" and Wikipedia is correct about the "lofty ambitions" bit, and Premier were shirt sponsors. QUOTE)

I sponsored a team in a 5 a side competition in Iveagh Grounds about that time ,it was ran by Pat Byrne.

My Team was whoever the Gate reserve goalie was at the time.Maurice O Driscoll,Toccy O Connor,Colm Seville & Joe Lawless.

The goals were tiny and we just couldn't score.
Went to penos we scored our first peno and so did they,we missed our second peno and the ref awarded the game to our opposition (without them taking their second peno) as he was told the penos were sudden death.

The League Of Ireland players went mental:curse::hammer::D