Limerick Pubs to Open on Good Friday

[Lionel Ritchie]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/limerick-pubs-to-open-on-good-friday-2111278.html

The thin end of the wedge? I sincerely hope so.

I for one have always resented losing out on the third night of my weekend just to acknowledge someone elses religious inclinations.

[saint dog]

ah it has to be the same everywhere
sure they have just opened a can of worms now , its only i matter of time
imo they should be open , if some publicans dont want to open for religious reasons thats their choice if you dont want to go to the pub on good friday thats your choice .
and i certainly dont buy into "its the only day bar xmas that they close "
they can close whatever day they wont but choose not too.

[Dodge]

Pretty disgraceful stuff by the Vintners. I'd imagine an absolute ton of similar appeals from all over the country now; Inchicore pubs can use the Pats v Fingal match

[Comic Book Guy]

Pretty disgraceful stuff by the Vintners. I'd imagine an absolute ton of similar appeals from all over the country now; Inchicore pubs can use the Pats v Fingal match

I wonder if this application was made by publicans in advance of a soccer or gaa match would the courts arrive at the same decision?
While I agree that pubs should be allowed to open any day they like it still seems to me that the rugger fraternity get accommodated by the judiciary/establishment.

[Dodge]

Just goes to show that Rugby is indeed a lesser sport. As apparently it can'tbe watched sober

[Lionel Ritchie]

I wonder if this application was made by publicans in advance of a soccer or gaa match would the courts arrive at the same decision?
While I agree that pubs should be allowed to open any day they like it still seems to me that the rugger fraternity get accommodated by the judiciary/establishment.

As there's no major GAA taking place around now or Xmas day there's little scope to find out. If there wwere I'd say this daft rule would be in the dumpster long ago.

The game's worth mega bucks to the local economy. There is, of course, a chance going forward that one of our qualifiers will now fall on a Good Friday as well. I hope publicans around lansdowne will be able to cite precedent. Though better for most if they just binned the thing.

[Macy]

The thin end of the wedge? I sincerely hope so.

I for one have always resented losing out on the third night of my weekend just to acknowledge someone elses religious inclinations.
Aye, we shouldn't be legislating based on one religion, and that includes Christmas too. There should be no restrictions on selling alcohol anyway - have it as a planning issue for residential areas.

btw Dodge, I wouldn't slag rugby for having to be watched drunk until you've had to endure the 1st division sober! :-)

[Real ale Madrid]

Pretty disgraceful stuff by the Vintners.

Why?

Seems like common sense to me - less than 5% of people in this county go to Mass these days - the days of the catholic church dictating things should be over. Pubs should be allowed to open whichever day they choose.

[jbyrne]

The game's worth mega bucks to the local economy.

the €6m figure the publicans said they would lose equates to 1.33million pints or 51 per supporter attending the match! what rubbish.
why people cant go for one day without entering a bar to buy a drink is beyond me

[osarusan]

the €6m figure the publicans said they would lose equates to 1.33million pints or 51 per supporter attending the match! what rubbish.
why people cant go for one day without entering a bar to buy a drink is beyond me
Do you think only those attending the match will drink? Nobody in Limerick will head to the pub to watch it? And none of these people will have a bit of grub at the same time?

[jbyrne]

Do you think only those attending the match will drink? Nobody in Limerick will head to the pub to watch it? And none of these people will have a bit of grub at the same time?

ok. lets say a highly unlikely 100,000 went to the pubs that would still mean each would have 13 pints! i attend about 10 thomand park matches a season and the number of pubs in the area that serve food on match day could be counted on one hand

[osarusan]

ok. lets say a highly unlikely 100,000 went to the pubs that would still mean each would have 13 pints! i attend about 10 thomand park matches a season and the number of pubs in the area that serve food on match day could be counted on one handDon't get me wrong. I fully agree that publicans will exaggerate the extent to which the local economy will benefit / suffer.


the €6m figure the publicans said they would lose equates to 1.33million pints or 51 per supporter attending the match! what rubbish.That statistic is indeed rubbish. But you made it up, not them.


why people cant go for one day without entering a bar to buy a drink is beyond me
People can go for a day without entering a pub and having a drink. That is clearly not what the whole debate is about. And if I'm to decide not to have a drink today, or that I will have a drink, that choice should be mine, not some stupid remnant of religious power.

[peadar1987]

Damn, I was really hoping someone would play the religious card so I could throw out my prepared line about banning alcohol sales during Ramadan!

[jbyrne]

That statistic is indeed rubbish. But you made it up, not them.

no i didn’t…

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0315/limerick.html



People can go for a day without entering a pub and having a drink. That is clearly not what the whole debate is about. And if I'm to decide not to have a drink today, or that I will have a drink, that choice should be mine, not some stupid remnant of religious power.

but you’ll take the public hol that comes with “the stupid remnant of religious power”. it’s the courts that set the license laws not the church

[pineapple stu]

less than 5% of people in this county go to Mass these days
65% according to the Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1102/1224257901174.html).

[Dodge]

Why?

Seems like common sense to me - less than 5% of people in this county go to Mass these days - the days of the catholic church dictating things should be over. Pubs should be allowed to open whichever day they choose.

I agree whole heartedly. The problem is that they wanted to change the law for one day, in one city. Either its for all, or its for none.

I personally think there should be no limit on the hours pubs and clubs should open.

What I disagree with is the blackmailing of the authorities over one 2 hour event, and the precedent that sets. Seriously, why couldn't Pubs in Inchicore claim that as they'll be hosting a sporting event thats on TV that night (and a crowd of say 3,000) that th game is worth €1million to the "local economy"

[osarusan]

no i didn’t…

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0315/limerick.html



I've already agreed that publicans will exaggerate the figure to make it more likely that the exemption will be granted.

However, you decided to interpret the 6 million euro figure as 51 pints per spectator at the match. That's the part I meant was rubbish.

[OneRedArmy]

I've already agreed that publicans will exaggerate the figure to make it more likely that the exemption will be granted.

However, you decided to interpret the 6 million euro figure as 51 pints per spectator at the match. That's the part I meant was rubbish.In fairness, if we're talking about ridiculous, the €6m figure is so ridiculous as to negate any sensible discussion. The calculation by jbyrne shows how ridiculous it is.

This court decision shows the absurdity of the law, as do the existing exemptions for Irish rail, hotels, etc. and are yet another anachronistic throwback that we need to stop clinging to.

[Lionel Ritchie]

no i didn’t…

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0315/limerick.html



but you’ll take the public hol that comes with “the stupid remnant of religious power”. it’s the courts that set the license laws not the church

What public holiday? I work in the EDUCATION system and I still have work on GF. God doesn't grant public holidays. We do collectively.

[Macy]

but you’ll take the public hol that comes with “the stupid remnant of religious power”. it’s the courts that set the license laws not the church
Different arguement as the public holiday facilitates people going to mass and other such activities. I've no problem with that facilitation. That doesn't change the facts of the imposition of their norms on the rest of the state.

It's nonsense anyway - the exemptions to alcohol are already there (as already mentioned) and the shops are open, you can buy meat (which a good catholic also wouldn't consume) so why not alcohol?

[jbyrne]

What public holiday? I work in the EDUCATION system and I still have work on GF. God doesn't grant public holidays. We do collectively.

so the good friday bank hol (but also a day off for most) and the bank holiday monday have nothing to do with easter that is a religious day?! if you work on good friday you are in a tiny minority that do

[saint dog]

not at all i would say the majority of people work good friday

[Lionel Ritchie]

so the good friday bank hol (but also a day off for most) and the bank holiday monday have nothing to do with easter that is a religious day?! if you work on good friday you are in a tiny minority that do

Oh this is a silly circular argument we're having and it's been had many times before here. All states, all nations and all cultures have their holidays. Most of ours in the western world have been hung on a coathook of the christian calender which themselves were tacked onto local prechristian holidays. If god was taken out of the equation entirely we'd still have state
holidays and they'd likely happen on or around the same dates they currently do.

As for your tiny minority I'd think a poll on that
would be interesting to see how many people here
don't get to go for a pint having put down a days work
just because it offends another clique of citizens
religious persuasion -and I couldn't care less if they're a
super-majority. Damn it I couldn't care less if everyone but me
was into it. It's still unfair.

[jbyrne]

not at all i would say the majority of people work good friday

schools, banks (and other financial institutions), all construction workers and pubs dont work good friday for starters. also, the public sector get a privilage day

[Schumi]

Good decision, hopefully there'll be lots of 'special events' next year. The rule is daft anyway as it just leads to the biggest day of the year for off-licences on the Thursday.

[pineapple stu]

schools, banks (and other financial institutions), all construction workers and pubs dont work good friday for starters. also, the public sector get a privilage day
You can add in professional types - accountants, lawyers, etc. Some other places just close because business will be very quiet anyway.

I don't really mind the alcohol ban per se, but I do think it's a bit silly closing what, like it or not, is the social hub of the country outside of the home for a whole day.

[Real ale Madrid]

What I disagree with is the blackmailing of the authorities over one 2 hour event, and the precedent that sets. Seriously, why couldn't Pubs in Inchicore claim that as they'll be hosting a sporting event thats on TV that night (and a crowd of say 3,000) that th game is worth €1million to the "local economy"

I'd hardly call it blackmail. While the figures are exagerated a little. These games are worth a lot to the ecomony- if vintners went the whole hog they know they wouldn't get very far. I think it would be remiss of them not to ask for an exemption in this case. Maybe this will bring this law into focus and it will be amended soon for the whole country.

[Dodge]

As soonas job losses are mentioned, I consider it blackmail

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/publicans-seek-good-friday-rugby-exemption-in-court-114624.html

[Macy]

the public sector get a privilage day
Not on Good Friday they don't.


Most of ours in the western world have been hung on a coathook of the christian calender which themselves were tacked onto local prechristian holidays. If god was taken out of the equation entirely we'd still have state holidays and they'd likely happen on or around the same dates they currently do.

iirc, even the term "Easter" has pagan origins and Easter Eggs are pagan symbols of fertility.

[Real ale Madrid]

As soonas job losses are mentioned, I consider it blackmail

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/publicans-seek-good-friday-rugby-exemption-in-court-114624.html

Mentioned job losses as part of an overall downturn in the pub trade but didn't say if you don't open the pubs good friday there wil lbe job losses.

Again I think it would have been remiss of the VFI not to at least try to get the pubs open on behalf of the pub owners because it is such a big game. I think they have done well here are should be praised. Id certainly be happy with them If I owned a pub in the area.

[Dodge]

I've no doubt they're working for their members. I just wouldn't be a big fan or theor political influence in the first place

And of course the mentioning of job losses was na implied threat. Otherwise why mention it?

[jbyrne]

Not on Good Friday they don't.


but they do get a privilage day for easter which was actually my original point re easter and holidays

[bennocelt]

Pretty disgraceful stuff by the Vintners. I'd imagine an absolute ton of similar appeals from all over the country now; Inchicore pubs can use the Pats v Fingal match

Yeah totally agree, bloody rugby types - have penciled in a Pats game for this Good Friday - looks like I will have to go to the Chinese for a few pre-match drinks, but at least the food will be good!!!
The hypocrisy is astonishing - only in Ireland

[juan]

I simply give up on this country. Way to show we're not a nation of alcoholics. I wonder will those who granted this exemption be down in Limerick now they know they can have a few pints.

[Mr A]

It shows nothing of the sort. It shows we're at least on the road to not allowing a bunch of arcane crap from the Vatican influence the legal opening hours of businesses in Ireland.

It's not as if those who don't want to drink are suddenly going to be forced to. They can not drink their little heads off if they want to.

[Aberdonian Stu]

I'm not a fan of the Good Friday ban on the sale of alcohol but I'm even less of a fan of an exemption on the grounds of 'ah go on'. This is a real having your cake and eating it situation. The league and more importantly the clubs chose Good Friday because of the benefits it offers in terms of lack of competition for public attention as pubs are closed. Now they want to maintain that benefit outside of Limerick yet still be able to serve booze. That stinks to me. Personally I think the ban should be lifted but exemptions on these grounds really grind my gears. The parties here are exploiting the advantage they gain from the ban existing while still trying to avoid being affected by the ban. The potential viewing figures for Setanta and the overall media coverage for the teams from playing Good Friday instead of the Saturday is massive. This coverage is the type of thing both sides use to help improve advertising and sponsorship packages (as I learnt from my brief time as a GAA beat writer with the Daily Ireland it's actually a huge factor). The sides are definitely looking at the financial aspect.

Looking at the broader issue of the ban Rome rule argument is a bit of smoke and mirrors on this on. While that was the cause of it existing, the reason it's stayed so long is because publicans have in general not mounted any campaign against it, indeed if anything there really hasn't been a substantial amount of active lobbying on this to force removal and that's always going to be an issue. Issues that would be far harder to win because of the old Catholic Ireland mentality have been pushed through, do you really think hardcore conservatives will fight as hard on Good Friday openings as they did on Divorce (which required constitutional amendment, this law doesn't require that) or Civil Unions? If there was a significant push this could be beaten with relatively little difficulty. The pub lobby, oddly enough, is the biggest obstacle to removing it fully as they don't force the issue, indeed there could be an argument made that is suits them in some respects but if I got into that in this post I'll sway massively off topic so might save it for later. In short while the blame for the law being on the books can go back to the Rome Rule issue, the reason it's still there is because of a lack of activity in fighting it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I simply give up on this country. Way to show we're not a nation of alcoholics. I wonder will those who granted this exemption be down in Limerick now they know they can have a few pints.

wtf? Those who granted it (Judge Tom O'Donnell in the district court) probably lives here. If you and anyone likeminded wants to stay home to demonstrate your non-alcoholism you're free to do so.

The conspiracy theorists on here suggesting some rugger adherent, stonecutters-esque socio-political elite bending rules to suit themselves could do with a dose of cop on and I say that as someone (in a small minority of Limerick people) who scarcely gives a tuppeny f*&^ about rugby.

As I've said in a previous post if there was some event pertaining to our "national games" taking place around good friday this daft rule would've been dumped when Dev was a boy.

[Mr A]

http://www.herald.ie/multimedia/archive/00536/2603_tshirt_indo_536842t.jpg

[Macy]

The league and more importantly the clubs chose Good Friday because of the benefits it offers in terms of lack of competition for public attention as pubs are closed. Now they want to maintain that benefit outside of Limerick yet still be able to serve booze.
I thought that the main reason, at least initially, for Good Friday was the European Cup fixtures the following weekend (hence the move from Saturday)?


In short while the blame for the law being on the books can go back to the Rome Rule issue, the reason it's still there is because of a lack of activity in fighting it.
Of course, as people against Church control of our society have bigger fish to fry - like getting the Church out of our schools and hospitals. They're incapable of providing a safe environment for children yet they control 90% of our primary schools, they can stop effective cancer treatments in our hospitals because they (the treatment) require women to take the pill. In such circumstances, pints on Good Friday are obviously down the list of priorities, but they are on the list nonetheless.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Commercially Macy I find the HC explanation too convenient. The potential exposure running a large scale event on Good Friday has is massive due to the relative lack of competition.

[OneRedArmy]

Commercially Macy I find the HC explanation too convenient. The potential exposure running a large scale event on Good Friday has is massive due to the relative lack of competition.You do realise Munster objected to the Magners League to re-schedule to Thurs or Sat. Repeatedly.

The League wouldn't agree to Thursday and Leinster wouldn't agree to Saturday (rightly so given the 6 days rest would put them at a disadvantage in the Heino QF).

Unfortunately your theory doesn't hold water.

[Dodge]

Lads TV schedules dictate playing schedules in most sports these days. I've absolutely no doubt that Setanta wanted their one "jewel" to be played in front of a captive audience

[Real ale Madrid]

Commercially Macy I find the HC explanation too convenient. The potential exposure running a large scale event on Good Friday has is massive due to the relative lack of competition.

The league itself deliberately put the game on Good Friday for the reasons you've outlined I'm sure.

The VFI then went to Munster and asked for the game to be switched but from a playing perspective the extra days rest could be vital before Northampton come to town the following Saturday.

They then went about trying to open the pubs.

When you say its a case of having thier cake and eating it too - who are you referring to? I'm not sure weather Munster or Leinster or anyone running the magners league care weather the pubs are open or not. The game is a sell-out regardless of when it takes place. Monies from Tv rights are set in stone more or less. The league and the clubs gain by a ban being in place but im not sure what the clubs / league gain by having it lifted locally for the day. The pubs are the ones looking for the ban to be lifted.

[Real ale Madrid]

May not be finished yet:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/limerick.html

[Aberdonian Stu]

You do realise Munster objected to the Magners League to re-schedule to Thurs or Sat. Repeatedly.

The League wouldn't agree to Thursday and Leinster wouldn't agree to Saturday (rightly so given the 6 days rest would put them at a disadvantage in the Heino QF).

Unfortunately your theory doesn't hold water.

I was unaware of that and that does change my view on the Munster and Leinster viewpoint on the matter however as Real Ale Madrid pointed out the league still has plenty of motivation to press ahead with using the Friday.

[Neish]

A mate of mine sent this letter into the Irish Times. He makes a fair point

Madam, – Let’s not be under any illusions here. If the sporting occasion were Bohemians v Limerick FC and not Leinster v Munster, there would not have been a word about it. The working classes would have to drink their cans on the bus and possibly smuggle one or two into the ground, but for Ross and Fiachra to venture beyond the Pale and be denied their coveted pints of Heino? Not a chance. – Yours, etc,

THOMAS BONNER,

Ballybofey,

Co Donegal.


Find it here
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0327/1224267175304.html