Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

[gufct]

Article from todays Irish Times paints a very gloomy picture if Gerry Gannon pulls the plug.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0312/1224266101415.html

[pineapple stu]

Just puts figures on what we already know anyway.

[blackholesun]

Dublin City proved that one man bands cant survive in the LOI.

Buckley has his heart in the right place and is a lot more copped on than that fool Ronan Seery ever was, but even still a team with no tradition and a tiny support base backed by one of Namas customers is only going to last for so long.

My prediction is a year from now, Fingal and Shels will merge to be become Sporting Shelbourne or Shelbourne Fingal FC, soon afterwards the double barrel name will be forgotten and it will be refered to as Shels, they will vacate Tolka and try to base themselves in North County Dublin as per SF's current plans and Buckley will be CEO / mananger and Shels will end up back in the premier division.

A nice neat tidy solution that should sort out a few problems in one go!

bhs

[Ezeikial]

To be dependent on any single benefactor is a potential problem - but when that ammount is €750k last season, and still posting a loss, it is pretty obvious that there is a serious crash possible.

The league needs another crash and burn club like a hole in the head.

The fact that Sporting Fingal has such a hefty budget this year presumably means that funds are guaranteed for this season at least. Please say it is so, FAI and Fingal, that you have cast iron enforcable guarantees in place!!

[Longfordian]

750k put in and they still lost 75k?. Bloody hell. That certainly can't last. I give them a year max if this continues.

[pineapple stu]

750k put in and they still lost 75k?
And that's after winning the Cup too.

[Ezeikial]

And that's after winning the Cup too.

Anyone know what was the prize money for cup winners and runners-up?

[pineapple stu]

Their accounts show prepaid income of E157k compared to E3k last year. No breakdown other than that, but it seems fair to assume the majority of the E157k is Cup money.

[Celdrog]

Their accounts show prepaid income of E157k compared to E3k last year. No breakdown other than that, but it seems fair to assume the majority of the E157k is Cup money.What's that Stu - season tickets etc?

[pineapple stu]

Answer's in the post, Celdrog. ;)

The Cup prize money they'd earned but not physically received at the time.

[Fingalstan]

75k for winning the cup i believe, any new club is going to have high costs initially with trying to establish themselves in the local community. The club are doing great work in the local community at the moment and the fruits of this will be seen over the next few seasons. I wouldn't read to much into this article its just a chance for all the negative people and begrudgers to have another pop. We're not going anywhere, no fear there!

[sixesandsevens]

My prediction is a year from now, Fingal and Shels will merge to be become Sporting Shelbourne or Shelbourne Fingal FC, soon afterwards the double barrel name will be forgotten and it will be refered to as Shels, they will vacate Tolka and try to base themselves in North County Dublin as per SF's current plans and Buckley will be CEO / mananger and Shels will end up back in the premier division.

Well I'd welcome some of the players onto the Shels team but neither of those names even if it was for a season or two.


This success has come at a price though. Sporting Fingal lost €75,358 in the year to the end of November last – a chunky sum for a club whose average crowd is usually measured in the hundreds.

Saying that Sporting Fingal have supporters that are measured in the hundreds is being very kind to them, if attendances are in the hundreds at Morton Park you can be sure that the majority of the support is there for the away team.

[marinobohs]

Dublin City proved that one man bands cant survive in the LOI.

Buckley has his heart in the right place and is a lot more copped on than that fool Ronan Seery ever was, but even still a team with no tradition and a tiny support base backed by one of Namas customers is only going to last for so long.

My prediction is a year from now, Fingal and Shels will merge to be become Sporting Shelbourne or Shelbourne Fingal FC, soon afterwards the double barrel name will be forgotten and it will be refered to as Shels, they will vacate Tolka and try to base themselves in North County Dublin as per SF's current plans and Buckley will be CEO / mananger and Shels will end up back in the premier division.

A nice neat tidy solution that should sort out a few problems in one go!

bhs

One less dublin club might well be no harm but I dont really see much other merit in the idea - Shels need a ground, Sporting dont have one. Sporting F need a fan base and money shels dont have much of either. two clubs with deficencies would just become one club with deficencies.
One less problem (as one less club) but thats all.

[Celdrog]

75k for winning the cup i believe, any new club is going to have high costs initially with trying to establish themselves in the local community. The club are doing great work in the local community at the moment and the fruits of this will be seen over the next few seasons. I wouldn't read to much into this article its just a chance for all the negative people and begrudgers to have another pop. We're not going anywhere, no fear there!
I think we said that fairly frequently in 2005/6/7.
In essence, Fingal survive on one man putting money in (as well as the taxpayer). If(When) Gannon stops they are gone. Happened us, except we didn't go totally as we have a half reasonable support base. Good luck to Fingal if they can establish this in the next 2 years by visiting a few schools.

[Lamper.sffc]

I think we said that fairly frequently in 2005/6/7.
In essence, Fingal survive on one man putting money in (as well as the taxpayer). If(When) Gannon stops they are gone. Happened us, except we didn't go totally as we have a half reasonable support base. Good luck to Fingal if they can establish this in the next 2 years by visiting a few schools.

I guess time will tell.
The difference this year is our budget is the same as last years while we should get larger away crowds in morton and an increase in home crowds. Our sponsorship will have increased by quite a bit also. A bit of a run in europe will do no harm either. Not saying this will all add up to us not having problems in the future but it will help. I just hope Gannon can stay around for long enough or we can get in some new investors. I guess we will see.

As for the promoting side of things, well the club never stops tbh. They have visited an unbelieveable amount of schools over the last 2 to 3 months with the cup and they plan to visit every school in Fingal. Just hope it works. Although sitting in a stand filled with screaming kids is not always a pleasant thing :) but it is where we need to start.

Iv really enjoyed following the team over the last 2 years and hopefully this will continue for a long time to come.

[blackholesun]

> The difference this year is our budget is the same as last years while we should get larger away crowds in morton and an increase in home crowds.

Look at the pics from last season of the "crowd" Pats brought to Dalyer. If you think 1000s of Pats, Rovers or Bohs fans are going to turn up at any games in Morton you are deluded!

> Our sponsorship will have increased by quite a bit also.

Doubt it, all sports clubs and charities are struggling to attract sponsorship in the economic climate.
Fingal already punched way above their weight re sponsorship in the first division.
With Gannon about to be namafied it will be interesting to see how this affects sponsorship.
E.g. managing to attract a large sum from a bank for a shirt sleeve is unlikely to be repeated going forward.

> A bit of a run in europe will do no harm either.

Most clubs are lucky to break even playing in Europe when team and travel costs are taken into account. Glamour ties and TV money are rare these days!

> I just hope Gannon can stay around for long enough or we can get in some new investors.

No-one is going to "invest" money in a football club in the current climate!

Well done to him if Buckley has securing the funding for this season, but time might will tell a tale as they say!

bhs

[Lamper.sffc]

> The difference this year is our budget is the same as last years while we should get larger away crowds in morton and an increase in home crowds.

Look at the pics from last season of the "crowd" Pats brought to Dalyer. If you think 1000s of Pats, Rovers or Bohs fans are going to turn up at any games in Morton you are deluded!

> Our sponsorship will have increased by quite a bit also.

Doubt it, all sports clubs and charities are struggling to attract sponsorship in the economic climate.
Fingal already punched way above their weight re sponsorship in the first division.
With Gannon about to be namafied it will be interesting to see how this affects sponsorship.
E.g. managing to attract a large sum from a bank for a shirt sleeve is unlikely to be repeated going forward.

> A bit of a run in europe will do no harm either.

Most clubs are lucky to break even playing in Europe when team and travel costs are taken into account. Glamour ties and TV money are rare these days!

> I just hope Gannon can stay around for long enough or we can get in some new investors.

No-one is going to "invest" money in a football club in the current climate!

Well done to him if Buckley has securing the funding for this season, but time might will tell a tale as they say!

bhs

Fair enough. Not going to get into a debate on whether I think you are right or not. Each to their own.

[total hoofball]

Gannon is a dead duck financially, however the criminal actions of his Fianna Fáil friends to create National Property Developers Bailout Agency will save him his helicopters and mansions. Had Gannon been wound up as he would have been in any other proper functioning nation Sporting Fingal would already have gone down with him.

Gannon will cost you, I and every citizen of this state close to 1 billion euro. Make no bones about it, that 700k he is ****ing into the black hole of Sporting Fingal is our money, money that could pay for say recently cut special needs assistants. And to think John Delaney is holding Sporting Fingal up as a model for a sustainble club :roll:

If Fingal County Council still have ambitions for a sustainable LOI club in their region and to develop a stadium the only realistic solution I can see is to link up with an established name such as Shels or Bohs otherwise this unsustainable white elephant is doomed.

[redarmyfaction]

If a club with a tradition like Shel's struggle with support and finances, what chance do someone like Fingal have. If the teams from the two biggest participating regional cities in the league go broke in the same year what hope have Fingal. If the glamour boys of the league can only manage an average 3600 in a glorious return by dint of a beautiful new stadium to their beloved southside what chance have Fingal. It think the spread is to start 1-3 seasons more.

[The Lep]

This is funny :)

[Cuyahoga]

If a club with a tradition like Shel's struggle with support and finances, what chance do someone like Fingal have. If the teams from the two biggest participating regional cities in the league go broke in the same year what hope have Fingal. If the glamour boys of the league can only manage an average 3600 in a glorious return by dint of a beautiful new stadium to their beloved southside what chance have Fingal. It think the spread is to start 1-3 seasons more.
A lot of clubs would like to have an average of 3,600 especially taken into account that only one stand was in use for half the season which had a capacity of just over 3,000.In fact most league games were sold out!

[Poor Student]

This is funny :)

The Lep, your nonchalance is identical to the fans of several LOI clubs who have imploded before you. I respect Fingal's community ethos and work but your model appears to be built on quick sand. Your revenue streams will not increase enough by being in the Premier to meet your outlays. See Dublin City the year they went bust. If Gannon's money tap is turned off then it seems Fingal will have to slash costs rapidly or implode spectacularly.

[RoversHead]

nope my moneys on GUFC followed by Sligo ,Bohs and then spingal in that order.

[Réiteoir]

Sounds familiar:


One club that was doomed to fail was Dublin City, which, while trying to style itself on the Dublin GAA brand, was unable to attract more than 100 spectators at its matches. On some nights, players wryly noted, there were more bums sitting on the benches than in the stands. Having established the club in 2001, Ronan Seery was losing €20,000 a week and in July of this year wound up the club leaving debts of €1.5 million. Being a big League of Ireland club is hard enough, but being a small one is near-impossible.

The League of Ireland’s first and last Commissioner, Roy Dooney, sums up the attitude of many club owners: “Clubs are constantly looking for a quick and easy solution. They are constantly looking for something that will deliver them a crowd of 10,000 per match. It is all short term. There is no doubt these fellas love their clubs and they love what they are doing – they wouldn’t do it otherwise. Take Ronan Seery in Dublin City – Ronan is a nice fella but that club was like some sort of extension of a PlayStation game. You are the manager of a scabby little club a mile from Tolka Park and Dalymount Park, your biggest neighbours. You have a crappy little stadium and okay, you have the great idea to call yourselves the Vikings and play in the Dublin county colours, but you just go nowhere... and yet the fellas, they love it. Another chairman I heard had more or less frittered away all his money into the club. He sold his wife’s car and took a second mortgage on his home just to pay a player’s wages. It is just mad.”

[The Lep]

Its funny cos its the same posts by the same heads thats been posted across the boards for the last 2 years or so.
Sporting Fingal and Dublin City are miles apart in their set up. The worse that will happen is that we go part time and maybe stagnate in the first division as a result but there will be a Sporting Fingal footy club to support in the league.
The link said we made a loss last year and we wernt the only club to do so and seeing that we are full time and the crowds we got last year i would have been suprised if we had made a profit. Its no big deal at the moment and something to work on. Not many league clubs made a profit last year so i aint worried.
Whats funny also is that there are more threads about off the field goings on than those about the actual football :)

[Schumi]

They got 3/4 of a million from one guy last year and could only come third in the First Division? That's incredible.

[The Lep]

Thanks :)

[Poor Student]

Its funny cos its the same posts by the same heads thats been posted across the boards for the last 2 years or so.
Sporting Fingal and Dublin City are miles apart in their set up. The worse that will happen is that we go part time and maybe stagnate in the first division as a result but there will be a Sporting Fingal footy club to support in the league.
The link said we made a loss last year and we wernt the only club to do so and seeing that we are full time and the crowds we got last year i would have been suprised if we had made a profit. Its no big deal at the moment and something to work on. Not many league clubs made a profit last year so i aint worried.
Whats funny also is that there are more threads about off the field goings on than those about the actual football :)

Whatever about other clubs and their losses, Fingal's lack of revenue streams and assests leaves them hugely vulnerable. Take Gannon's three quarters of a million away and you're looking at an astronomical loss for a 1st Division club.

[De Town]

Thanks :)

Use the thanks feature! :angry2:

[Buile Shuibhne]

Does John O'Brien - Senior Executive Office of Fingal County Council / Secretary of Sporting Fingal- post here as a SF supporter.

While goggling him I found this:


The following motion in the name of Councillor C. Daly, was proposed by Councillor C. Daly, seconded by Councillor R. Coppinger:

“That the Manager would outline a comprehensive report explaining the relationship between the Council and Sporting Fingal in terms of what the 26% shareholding means in terms of rights and responsibilities, with particular reference to the financing of the club, who are the other owners and what work is done for the club by Council staff.”

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_doc.aspx?id=37816

[bennocelt]

They got 3/4 of a million from one guy last year and could only come third in the First Division? That's incredible.


And get promoted and win the cup and into Europe - so everything they were looking for really!

[Riddickcule]

Have about we don't think the worst and lets presume SF will thrive, and survive as a community club?

Jeez, I though i was bad for assuming the worst until you check out this gaff. lol

[Fingalstan]

I think we said that fairly frequently in 2005/6/7.
In essence, Fingal survive on one man putting money in (as well as the taxpayer). If(When) Gannon stops they are gone. Happened us, except we didn't go totally as we have a half reasonable support base. Good luck to Fingal if they can establish this in the next 2 years by visiting a few schools.

The club have set themselves up as a community club, they have a massive presence in schools and have also set up a community arm to the club in a community trust which is doing some unreal work with vulnerable groups in the community.

[Fingalstan]

Ithink we said that fairly frequently in 2005/6/7.
In essence, Fingal survive on one man putting money in (as well as the taxpayer). If(When) Gannon stops they are gone. Happened us, except we didn't go totally as we have a half reasonable support base. Good luck to Fingal if they can establish this in the next 2 years by visiting a few schools.

club was only founded in 07 so you should put your ability to see into the future to better use i reckon! 1250 in morton on friday and 90% were paying customers, only freebies were the usual vips and club delegates etc!

[pineapple stu]

I think he's talking about Drogheda fans saying that back in 05-07.

The reality is the league has seen this situation so many times before (clubs spending hundreds of thousands more than they actually have), and it always always ends up badly.

[marinobohs]

The Lep, your nonchalance is identical to the fans of several LOI clubs who have imploded before you. I respect Fingal's community ethos and work but your model appears to be built on quick sand. Your revenue streams will not increase enough by being in the Premier to meet your outlays. See Dublin City the year they went bust. If Gannon's money tap is turned off then it seems Fingal will have to slash costs rapidly or implode spectacularly.

The Lep may well be whistling past the graveyard RE Fingals future OR he may have read the long running saga on Foot.ie which predicted all kinds of doom for Bohs last year - bankruptcy, relegation stripped of title etc all widely touted here and all a complete load of B------x.

Cant blame fingal fans for not giving up just yet:o

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, sure Bohs are grand financially now. No problems there at all any more.

[marinobohs]

Yeah, sure Bohs are grand financially now. No problems there at all any more.

Not gone broke
Not relegated
Not stripped of title
Not barred from European competition
Not losing most/all players
Not homeless

Will settle for that and I'm sure Sporting Fingal would settle next year for bohs current position :cool:

[pineapple stu]

Not not screwed.

[Longfordian]

Fingal don't have any assets to sell

[peadar1987]

Fingal don't have any assets to sell

Twice ;)

[blackholesun]

Not gone broke
Not relegated
Not stripped of title
Not barred from European competition
Not losing most/all players
Not homeless

Will settle for that and I'm sure Sporting Fingal would settle next year for bohs current position :cool:

Bohs scrapped through last season financially to fight another day, but there still is the outstanding question of paying back the 4 million loan to Zurich.

Dalymount will surely have to be sold at some stage to clear this debt and a new ground sourced. The long term ground / debt issue will make or break Bohs!

bhs

[marinobohs]

Bohs scrapped through last season financially to fight another day, but there still is the outstanding question of paying back the 4 million loan to Zurich.

Dalymount will surely have to be sold at some stage to clear this debt and a new ground sourced. The long term ground / debt issue will make or break Bohs!

bhs

At last ! Shams actually accepting that we did comply with the 65% rule. A major step forward in itself :D I think the future of Dalymount is pretty much clear and the issue will be relocation. we have a bit of time on this and I know the club are already looking at various options, hopefully have a few bob as well ! The main issue will be the location of the new ground. The proceeds of the sale of dalymount will fund the money owed to Zurich.

[SkStu]

lets leave this thread to Fingals demise. We have been done to death on this mb and my blood pressure cant take another bout of tit-for-tat.

[The Lep]

I think he's talking about Drogheda fans saying that back in 05-07.

The reality is the league has seen this situation so many times before (clubs spending hundreds of thousands more than they actually have), and it always always ends up badly.

Thats usually the case but Fingal have only spent money they have up to now.

[The Lep]

Fingal don't have any assets to sell

Thats not true
We have Fingal Freddie who must be worth a few quid :)

[Longfordian]

He's impossible to put a price on!

[The Lep]

We'll find a price if the time comes :)

[madblaa]

Simple, they have no supporters!

[ger121]

Simple, they have no supporters!

Waterford are hardly packing them in now either are they. If attendances where a measure of survival, every club in the league would be in trouble.