Training camp and May friendlies

[bwagner]

Im on night shift and uber bored so im writing this :O)

I believe Trap wants a training camp in Italy before the two May friendlies.

I have put a list of the players I think will or should be involved.

Given
Murphy
Westwood

Coleman
Duffy
Dunne
O'Shea
Wilson
Kelly
St Ledger
Mc Shane
Ward
Foley
Kilbane

S Reid
Mc Carthy
Lawerence
Hunt
Mc Geady
Fahey
Andrews
Whelan
Hoolohan
Gibson
A Reid
Duff

Keane
Doyle
Best
Stokes
Long
D Murphy
Cox

[rebelmusic]

I'd replace Hoolohan with McCann if he's back from injury. Wouldn't particularly want McShane there but we all know he will be. Agree with the rest thought - (altho Cunningham will defo be there)

[drummerboy]

Just wondering have you forgotten the following players, or do you think they are surplus to requirements:
Garvan, McCann, O'Dea, O’Connor (Ipswich), Keogh, Miller

[tetsujin1979]

Hoolahan hasn't been in the squad since the B game VS Forest, and has since dropped a division. Although he's playing well in League One, I'm not sure if it's good enough to get into the training camp.
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Conor Powell there, if his game schedule permits it. Trapattoni name checked him after seeing him play last season, and we desperately need cover at left full.

[Crosby87]

I think he has moved on from S Reid and A Reid, long ago.
What about trying to get S Ireland back in the mix? Is that completely squashed?

[TrapAPony]

I'm sure some granny rule players will be there too.

[drummerboy]

what about trying to get s ireland back in the mix? Is that completely squashed?

hopefully

[SkStu]

i dont think anyone should be concerned about getting Steven Ireland back on the scene. We can do it without him. Its his loss. Not ours.

[Razors left peg]

I was one of Irelands biggest supporters in the beginning but yeah its time to forget him now, little ****** has said enough times that he doesnt want to play for us so lets move on with the likes of McCarthy for the future...

One play that I think would be worth fast tracking into this training camp is Connor Clifford.He has done well in the under 21s and at 18 years of age looks a fantastic prospect. Definately worth bringing him to the training camp for experience

[Serb]

A few thoughts on some of the players being discussed:

I can't believe people are still touting Wes Hoolahan for the Ireland squad. He'll be 28 by the time the training camp comes along and is playing in League 1 football. Unless he does a Keith Andrews and makes an unlikely step up to the Premier League (or even the Championship) and starts playing impressive and consistent football, I can't see him adding to his 1 minute of full international football anytime soon (or ever).

I was thinking about the inclusion of Kevin Kilbane and people talking about exploring options at left back. I have a feeling that he may be our left back for the entire duration of our next qualifying campaign. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some younger players take over that position because he's no good at left back, but he'll only be 34 by the time the Euro qualifying is done and dusted. He'd be 35 by the time the tournament rolls around though so, if we did qualify, maybe that would be a bridge too far.

I'd agree Trap has moved on from Andy Reid, but I'd say Steven Reid might have a shot at getting into the training camp. I know he's been dogged with injuries, making 8 league appearances for Blackburn in the last 2 years, but he's gotten two full 90 minutes at WBA so far, and if he stays injury free, he could have 6 more games behind him by the end of the loan period. He would probably be better off extending that loan until the end of the season if that's an option as he probably won't get too much game time back at Blackburn (WBA would have another 5 games to play).

[drummerboy]

Trap has said that he won't be bring his seasoned internationals to the training camp. He is concentrating on the younger inexperienced members of the squad plus players who haven't featured in squads before. So don't expect Robbie, Dunne, Given, Killer, Doyler, ect to be present.

[backstothewall]

I'd add Alan Lee and Caleb Folan onto that list. Maybe Stephen O'Halloran if he gets fit and maybe gets a few games on loan somewhere

Maybe Brian Murphy and Graham Stack as well. Would be good to have a couple of extra goalies involved.

[Razors left peg]

Alan Lee has already said he doesnt give a crap about playing for us again, but I would agree with u about the others

[backstothewall]

Alan Lee has already said he doesnt give a crap about playing for us again,

Didn't realise that. When did he say that. Was it after Cyprus. I wouldn't have blamed anyone for saying that in the Staunton days

I watched him play for Palace against Villa in the cup and he was a real handful

[Razors left peg]

It was a while back, cant remember exactly but it was after he had been left out of a few squads. There might be a link to the interview somewhere on the Alan Lee thread

[backstothewall]

I'll have a look

[SkStu]

id like to see Darren Ambrose called up for a look.

[Predator]

I'd love to see some of the current U21 squad given a chance to impress Trapattoni. If the training camp is expressively for fringe players and new-guys, then I assume we'll see a few featuring in the friendlies.

[irishfan86]

I'd like to see Terry Dixon rewarded for his comeback with a chance to participate in the training squad, but I understand if Trap would rather him continue his development with the U-21s.

[ofjames]

David Meyler?

Started again for Sunderland today.

[irishfan86]

David Meyler?

Started again for Sunderland today.

He's got a bit of an edge to his game...saw him get under Barry's skin there with a little bit of afters...I'm fine with the edge as long as it's controlled and calculated. Not too sure whether that's the case though!

[Yard of Pace]

He's got a bit of an edge to his game...saw him get under Barry's skin there with a little bit of afters...I'm fine with the edge as long as it's controlled and calculated. Not too sure whether that's the case though!

The GAA influence is pretty obvious! Ridiculous they got booked for what was just a little bit of pushing and shoving.

[TrapAPony]

What would be the point of calling up someone like Alan Lee at 32. If that's the case we might as well call up Dominic Foley.

[drummerboy]

I've seen Meyler play for 21 and again yesterday. I think he is definitely one for the future and should be included in the training camp. The boy has attitude and looked very assured yesterday.

[backstothewall]

What would be the point of calling up someone like Alan Lee at 32. If that's the case we might as well call up Dominic Foley.

Lee might not be a youngster, but he's playing well at a decent level, and offers a different kind of option. Not arguing he's any more than a journeyman pro, but so was Quinner arguably, and either one is a nice option to see in the dugout with 15 minutes left if you need a goal

[SkStu]

Not arguing he's any more than a journeyman pro, but so was Quinner arguably

Niall Quinn?? I really hope youre not trying to categorise Niall Quinn as a journeyman pro?! He had 3 "premiership" clubs in his career averaged roughly one goal every four games and was a legend at all three! (i hope i havent missed something but i geuinely cant see how Quinn was a journeyman...)

[irishfan86]

In terms of level of play (not style), I would compare Niall Quinn to Robbie Keane. Both of them scored plenty of goals, but never really won anything significant (in terms of trophies, they both have a League Cup win only, if I'm correct). The majority of Premier League teams would like to have them, but the elite teams would probably have no use for them.

The best either of them placed in the league during a full season* was fifth, and both of them played significant roles (Quinn scored 20+ as Manchester City came fifth, Keane was Spurs's top scorer as they came fifth).

*I realize Quinn was part of the Arsenal squad that won the league in 1989, but he didn't play enough games to win a medal so I've omitted that.

[SkStu]

In terms of level of play (not style), I would compare Niall Quinn to Robbie Keane. Both of them scored plenty of goals, but never really won anything significant (in terms of trophies, they both have a League Cup win only, if I'm correct). The majority of Premier League teams would like to have them, but the elite teams would probably have no use for them..

But theyre the two top scorers ever for Ireland. Thats all i really care about - have we ever had an "elite" striker considered in the top 5 of the premier league? No. Probably never will either.

I dont really get your point, all i was saying was that Quinn was not a jouneyman by any strech of the imagination.

[irishfan86]

I think you've misunderstood my post. Absolutely neither should be considered journeymen, and they are both legends in my eyes; however, I disagree with your point that we will never have an elite striker -- that seems a bizarre assertion.

Would absolutely love to have Niall Quinn in his peak right now, we saw flashes of what Robbie and Niall could do together in the short overlap of their international careers -- too bad it wasn't over the span of a decade or we'd be scoring a lot more goals.

[Colbert Report]

But theyre the two top scorers ever for Ireland. Thats all i really care about - have we ever had an "elite" striker considered in the top 5 of the premier league? No. Probably never will either.

I dont really get your point, all i was saying was that Quinn was not a jouneyman by any strech of the imagination.

I would argue that Robbie has been in top five. He's the 10th top overall scorer in PL history.

[Junior]

Liam Miller not included in your list? Playing very well for Hibs and Im sure his confidence is sky high. I know the disdain that is generally attached to the mention of Miller in a Green shirt these days but it would seem strange not to include him. Hes just turned 29, so age is not a factor. Not sure if there was any comment around his omission from the squad for the Brazil game?

[SkStu]

I think you've misunderstood my post. Absolutely neither should be considered journeymen, and they are both legends in my eyes; however, I disagree with your point that we will never have an elite striker -- that seems a bizarre assertion.

Would absolutely love to have Niall Quinn in his peak right now, we saw flashes of what Robbie and Niall could do together in the short overlap of their international careers -- too bad it wasn't over the span of a decade or we'd be scoring a lot more goals.

Yeah, i thought at the time that maybe i had misunderstood your post. And i agree totally about the Quinn/Keane partnership. Worked a treat. Quinn reminded me of Crouch - big man (obviously) but great technique and deceptively good with his feet. Referees hated him though (except for WC02 against Spain ;) ).


I would argue that Robbie has been in top five. He's the 10th top overall scorer in PL history.

yep CR - youre absolutely right.

to both of you, I guess my definition of elite striker is a little different though - Drogba, Rooney, Torres, Tevez - you know, the ones that the commentators cream themselves over while basically ignoring the rest. I never thought Keane got the recognition he deserved thogh he is easily the closest we have come to producing a top striker. My love of Keane is well documented here.

[third policeman]

Thats all i really care about - have we ever had an "elite" striker considered in the top 5 of the premier league? No. Probably never will either.



John Aldridge was a top five club striker at Liverpool. Stapleton at Arsenal and Man Utd, and dare I mention Don Givens? QPR were runners up when he played there and regular top five contenders in the early to mid 70's

[Charlie Darwin]

The GAA influence is pretty obvious! Ridiculous they got booked for what was just a little bit of pushing and shoving.
Either it's the GAA influence or the Cattermole influence. Or a lethal combination of both.

[SkStu]

John Aldridge was a top five club striker at Liverpool. Stapleton at Arsenal and Man Utd, and dare I mention Don Givens? QPR were runners up when he played there and regular top five contenders in the early to mid 70's

premier league.... ;)

edit: youre right of course and i thought of Stapo and Aldridge last night when i was posting but english footie was a different beast back then in my opinion.

[backstothewall]

Niall Quinn?? I really hope youre not trying to categorise Niall Quinn as a journeyman pro?! He had 3 "premiership" clubs in his career averaged roughly one goal every four games and was a legend at all three! (i hope i havent missed something but i geuinely cant see how Quinn was a journeyman...)

Thats why I said "arguably". but if you want me to play devils advocate, then consider the following. He played for 2 average Premiership sides, and was relegated with both them, and never made it at Arsenal, so much so that he didn't get a league winners medal in 89 because he hadn't played in enough games.

Like I say, I'm playing Devils advocate, and I think the guy is a legend, but getting back to the main point, its handy to have a big gangly striker about the place, and 32 is no age at all for someone to come on for 20 minutes at the end of the game. When the 35 year old Quinner of '02 went on in Ibaraki he was well past his best, but he proved to be the thorn in the side of the most miserly defence in the tournament that day.

[SkStu]

Thats why I said "arguably". but if you want me to play devils advocate, then consider the following. He played for 2 average Premiership sides, and was relegated with both them, and never made it at Arsenal, so much so that he didn't get a league winners medal in 89 because he hadn't played in enough games.

Like I say, I'm playing Devils advocate, and I think the guy is a legend, but getting back to the main point, its handy to have a big gangly striker about the place, and 32 is no age at all for someone to come on for 20 minutes at the end of the game. When the 35 year old Quinner of '02 went on in Ibaraki he was well past his best, but he proved to be the thorn in the side of the most miserly defence in the tournament that day.

glad that we both agree he's a legend. WRT his time at Arsenal, wasnt he 17/18 when he signed and broke through at 20/21 - he was then a regular in the team up until 1989 when Alan Smith was signed and went on to have a fantastic season that saw Quinner pushed out of the starting 11. He actually had a fairly decent goals to appearances record for Arsenal. My only disagreement with your post was categorising him as a journeyman (oh, and lumping him in there with Alan Lee!) as he doesnt fit my definition of a journeyman... thats all. He's a legend alright.

[SkStu]

Clinton Morrisson for the training camp anyone?

[TrapAPony]

Clinton Morrisson for the training camp anyone?

31 games for Ireland and 9 goals. He has had a decent run in the Championship this year and Coventry are just outside the playoffs.

[irishfan86]

He's got a similar goalscoring record (basically 1 goal per every 3 starts) for Coventry this season. Probably never should have been dropped from the squad in the first place. Not to say he's a superstar, but he always played well for us, and the players who have come in for him haven't exactly done any better...

[Diarmo]

For the last training camp he named an extended squad of 28. I'd like to see him do the same. How about this 31 man squad:

Given
Westwood
B. Murphy

Dunne
O'Shea
St. Ledger
McShane
O'Dea
Ward
Coleman
Foley
Kilbane
Wilson
Kelly

Whelan
Andrews
McCarthy
Gibson
McCann
A. Reid
McGeady
Duff
Lawrence
Hunt

Keane
Doyle
Folan
Best
Morrisson
Stokes
Long

Those in bold could maybe rest out the training camp as they're our senior players. But all in all I think some experimentation would be of benefit. I left out Steven Reid as I'm not sure if Trap really considers him fit enough, but if he keeps himself fit for West Brom & Blackburn he could be a contender for a place. There are some other players like Cox, Tabb, Keogh etc. who would warrant a look, but possibly a large extended squad would be best.