No Goal Line Technology

[elroy]

Mods feel free to move to World Football if more appropriate, but good to see that the whole Henry incident last November has had no effect whatsoever on the thinking behind goal line technology.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0306/fifa1.html


Nothing short of a disgrace in this day and age imo. Several other professional sports make use of technology to the benefit of the game. Even in the game between Portsmouth and Bham today, Bham had a perfectly good goal where the ball just crossed the line that was denied by the officials.

I have heard lawro hypothesise before that the reason FIFA dont want to bring it in is due to the increasing power that TV companies have on the game and this would only increase it further, not sure I subscribe to this theory though.

So in summary for all the furore over the Paris game last year, we get a token Brazil friendly, thats it!!
The exact same thing could happen us in the next campaign, in fact we should clearly now encourage our players to do similar as there is no downside to such actions.

[Predator]

The exact same thing could happen us in the next campaign, in fact we should clearly now encourage our players to do similar as there is no downside to such actions.
No elroy, we shouldn't encourage our players to cheat.

Was in the gym today and Sky Sports was on, showing the Roy Carroll incident. There's no shortage of reasons as to why it should be introduced, whereas the reasons provided by FIFA in opposition to it are either unclear or weak. It will probably change when Blatter et al. are gone.

[irishultra]

i love platini and all becoz they have the interest of all football at heart not just the elites.

[elroy]

No elroy, we shouldn't encourage our players to cheat.

It will probably change when Blatter et al. are gone.

Was been sarcastic.

Am not so sure, they are all cut from the same cloth. I cant see how they could come under much more pressure to make the change after Paris, unless it happens at the WC to a powerful team. It is interesting to note that the English FA and SFA voted in favour of change.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Let's hope France or another big team are knocked out by a similarly blatently cheated goal....in the WC later stages.
Then FIFA will have to take notice?
Ass-holes that they are.

[backstothewall]

I'm fully behind FIFA on this one. Football is about drama and entertainment, and dubious decisions give us all things to talk about.

And it is absolutley right that the rules are the same, whether your playing in Wembley, or the local council pitch, or a patch of ground in sub-saharan Africa.

[SkStu]

but imagine the fun and ranting we could have if they introduced this technology and still managed to get some calls wrong - think of the bigger picture BTW! It opens up a whole new angle of whinging that I, for one, would love. :smirk:

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'm fully behind FIFA on this one. Football is about drama and entertainment, and dubious decisions give us all things to talk about.

And it is absolutley right that the rules are the same, whether your playing in Wembley, or the local council pitch, or a patch of ground in sub-saharan Africa.

It's not mate. Managed a Sunday league team for 17 years and just as many cretinous (including me!) reffing decisions which would have benefitted from Video replays. Sadly our games weren't quite as important as the World Cup!

[backstothewall]

It's not mate. Managed a Sunday league team for 17 years and just as many cretinous (including me!) reffing decisions which would have benefitted from Video replays. Sadly our games weren't quite as important as the World Cup!

I've been invloved in a kids team, and I went and got my refereeing badge. Kids want to emulate what they see on the telly. By introducing TV etc into premier league football, there is a danger of taking the glamour (that kids do see) out of underage football. Having one rule for the English Premier league, and another for the underage leagues could see kids drifting away from playing the game, which would be a disaster. Its hard enough to drag them away from playstations & overprotective parents as it is.

Televised football is show business. I know there are millions of pounds at stake, but I don't care about that. Refereeing blunders add to the theatre of the whole thing, which is what the fan really wants.

The next time we play France there will be a fortnight of build up, tickets selling on ebay for hundreds of euro, interviews with all the players from that night in Paris, with a probably retired Thierry Henry, and an apmoshere in Lansdowne like nothing else.

All that hype and buzz will come from 1 refereeing **** up. I know we will all feel the injustice of that this summer, but at the end of the day it was a refereeing blunder that gave us half an hour of extra time and the chance to go through to the 1/4 final on penalties against Spain the last time we were at the World Cup. The karmic score was probably just being leveled in Paris.

[elroy]

I know we will all feel the injustice of that this summer, but at the end of the day it was a refereeing blunder that gave us half an hour of extra time and the chance to go through to the 1/4 final on penalties against Spain the last time we were at the World Cup. The karmic score was probably just being leveled in Paris.

It doesnt seem to have impacted on participations levels at underage rugby.

What blunder?? That was a peno no doubt, perhaps some refs may not have given it, but Hierro had hold of Quinns shirt, nearly took it off him, correct decision there. If there was any karma to be had it was for the peno we got at home to Georgia which def was a blunder.

[Razors left peg]

Televised football is show business. I know there are millions of pounds at stake, but I don't care about that. Refereeing blunders add to the theatre of the whole thing, which is what the fan really wants.



Im sorry but I couldnt disagree with that more. As a football fan I want to be talking about the play on the pitch. A good referee is one that u hardly notice in a match, they should NOT be the center of attention like some of them seem to want to be. The amount of big refereeing mistakes in big games in the last year have started to turn me off football a bit because there is no appetite from the governing body to fix it.
I think if there was a poll taken on this website there would be very few football fans that would agree with your(and FIFAs) opinion on that.

And as for saying that we didnt deserve a penalty against Spain for Hierro trying to swop shirts before the final whistle, did u thing Quinn was trying to take the shirt off himself?

[backstothewall]

Im sorry but I couldnt disagree with that more. As a football fan I want to be talking about the play on the pitch. A good referee is one that u hardly notice in a match, they should NOT be the center of attention like some of them seem to want to be. The amount of big refereeing mistakes in big games in the last year have started to turn me off football a bit because there is no appetite from the governing body to fix it.
I think if there was a poll taken on this website there would be very few football fans that would agree with your(and FIFAs) opinion on that.

And as for saying that we didnt deserve a penalty against Spain for Hierro trying to swop shirts before the final whistle, did u thing Quinn was trying to take the shirt off himself?

Was thinking of the very obvious daive by Damian duff. Maybe that was the one Harte missed but there are plently of examples of the referee giving us a decision over the years. And I never said they should the referee should be the centre of attention. There are few things I dislike more than whistle happy referees who think they are the star of the show. Please don't put words in my mouth.

My point is that the odd honest mistake gives football an edge in entertainment value that other sports cannot really match. Sticking with the 2002 World Cup, as a neutral one of the most entertaining games of the whole tournament was Italy being dumped out by South Korea, with a referee giving a couple of bizarre decisions.

[Razors left peg]

again I cant agree with you about being entertained watching the ref giving awful decisions in that game against Italy. As a neutral yes I wanted Korea to win but I would have prefered for it to happen without the help of a corrupt ref. Much like in 1982 when a corrupt ref stopped us qualifying for the world cup in the game against Belgium I dont find that entertaining.
I watch football to be entertained by what happens between the 22 players on the pitch and I dont need reffering talking points to add to my enjoyment of the game, for me it has the opposite effect. I still dont have the same love of football that I did before the Paris game.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I've been invloved in a kids team, and I went and got my refereeing badge. Kids want to emulate what they see on the telly. By introducing TV etc into premier league football, there is a danger of taking the glamour (that kids do see) out of underage football. Having one rule for the English Premier league, and another for the underage leagues could see kids drifting away from playing the game, which would be a disaster. Its hard enough to drag them away from playstations & overprotective parents as it is.

Televised football is show business. I know there are millions of pounds at stake, but I don't care about that. Refereeing blunders add to the theatre of the whole thing, which is what the fan really wants.


Not really. I'm sick of the bent & cretinous refs and administrators. Anything that undermines their shocking lack of ability or imagination is good for me.
Would sooner have the whole game reffed by someone with a video than an official on the field. It's a hard job reffing, and with apologies to the various refs.I know, would say 90% of them in general, aren't up to it.

[backstothewall]

Let me try to convince you anotyher way then...

...It won't work

If we bring in goalline technology, there are still going to be offside goals scored, still going to be good goals disallowed because someone jumped in the general vacinity of the goalkeeper. There are still going to be penalties given for nothing, and not given for something, and there will still be goals scored with double hand balls in the build up.

And even if they bring in a TV replays, with the 4th official making a decision from the side of the pitch, that will cut down the amount of incorrect decisions, but a lot of people still won't agree with a good percentage of them. I was round at a mates house last night watching match of the day, and we had a heated debate about whether Sol Campbells challenge on Hesselink was a red card or not. This was with the benefit of going back and forth for 10 minutes on a sky plus box

And thats before you consider what you use it for? If its only goals, like they do in rugby, does that mean it can't be used for potential red cards. Can someone be sent off and not be allowed the chance to clear their name? Or do you allow it for red cards as well? If you do that someone can be given a legitimate second booking, and go off because they picked up a ridiculous booking earlier in them game, but because it was their first they can't challenge it.

Or you can let every goal, penalty, red card & yellow card decision go to the man with the monitor, but it will add 20 minutes onto every half, some decisions still won't be right, and there will be even more half the ground won't agree with.

Or you could give every manager a set number of TV challenges, but then people will run out of challenges, and get shafted by an incorrect decision, and still people won't be happy.

Its an enormous can of worms

[Razors left peg]

yes you do have a point about where do you stop and I dont really have the answer to that. First of all there definately should be replays for ball over the line, for me thats a no brainer. I accept that not every decision throughout the course of a game can be done by tv replay because otherwise the game would become like american football, but surely there must be an answer that can minimise the major decisions in a game being incorrect. It is impossible to completely get rid of controversy from refereeing decisions but most refs in the Premiership have already said that they would like technology to help in making their job that bit easier.
In the time it takes between a player celebrating a goal and the restart of the game, surely someone could look at the goal on a monitor and judge whether the goal should stand? For penalty decisions maybe each manager could have 1 challenge during a game. As I said I dont have the all the answers but I believe that some form of tv refering works in other sports and I think it would work in some form for football too

[backstothewall]

It would give less incorrect decisions, but the debate will simply move on to "why can TV be used for X and not for Y" and things will be no further on. Given that, the drama lost, and the impact on the game of having one rule for the champions League, and another for the Sunday League, I think fifA are quite right to draw a lin in the sand on technology, and long may it continue in my opinion.

If someone had proposals for a quick fullproof way of refereeing the game, it should be considered, but nothing like that exists.

(Oh, and goal celebrations, which I think are a great part of the game, would be lost. Instead of pulling spiderman masks out of their socks, snorting the touchline, jumping into the stands, or running the length of the pitch to slide in front of your old teams fans, players would be jogging back into the big screen to see if the goal was ok like they do in rugby)

[Razors left peg]

Players still celebrate a try in rugby. In football 99% of goals have no doubt about them so its only a small minority of goals that players would wonder about so I dont think it would take anything away from goal celebrations. Again using the rugby comparison, I dont hear too many people suggesting that video technology should be used to findout if there were hands in the ruck when the ball is on the halfway line.
Absolutely the vast majority of the game of football needs to be refereed in the same way as it is now, but help needs to be given to refs when it comes to judging whether goals are legitimate

[ArdeeBhoy]

Anything that reduces the vast no.of mistakes made by refs and officials can only be a good thing. Don't care how long it takes in the course of a game, it can only reduce the vast no.of incorrect decisions made in every game.
As I say, I'm happy for everything down to a throw to be decided by video ref!

Football only has itself to blame. Far too many games are now fixed and anything which undermines this can only be good.

[backstothewall]

Players still celebrate a try in rugby. In football 99% of goals have no doubt about them so its only a small minority of goals that players would wonder about so I dont think it would take anything away from goal celebrations. Again using the rugby comparison, I dont hear too many people suggesting that video technology should be used to findout if there were hands in the ruck when the ball is on the halfway line.
Absolutely the vast majority of the game of football needs to be refereed in the same way as it is now, but help needs to be given to refs when it comes to judging whether goals are legitimate

In fairness, they celebrate when there is no doubt, Tommy Bowe even celebrates before he even scores them. But there a lot of times everyone is looking to the TV.

And football is a different game to rugby. People have a lot more respect for the referee, and there are much more tiny infringements in football. There are also a lot more yellow cards given in football, and the stop-start nature of the game means rugby referees are usually much closer to the play, so they get more decisions right.

Most of the TV replays in rugby are for grounding the ball through or under a crowd of bodies, or checking if someone was in touch before they got the ball down. In football there is potential for offside, the ball not crossing the line, shirt-pulls, obstruction, etc. And the ridiculous situation of a TV official having the power to disallow a goal, but not to award a punishment against an attacking player who for example elbowed a defender in the build-up.

[Razors left peg]

The referee is allowed linesmen to help him in making decisions. They might see something from a different angle from him and alert him to an infringement. So what about having an official watching the game on a monitor, its basically just watching the game from a different viewpoint and he would be radio linked to the ref the same as the other officals. Im not saying he should be able to watch replays 10 times and call the game back for something a minute later but it only takes a couple of seconds to see something a 2nd time if that is even needed

Didnt the 4th offical see Zidane headbutting Matterazi on a replay and called the refs attention to it from that?

[backstothewall]

The referee is allowed linesmen to help him in making decisions. They might see something from a different angle from him and alert him to an infringement. So what about having an official watching the game on a monitor, its basically just watching the game from a different viewpoint and he would be radio linked to the ref the same as the other officals. Im not saying he should be able to watch replays 10 times and call the game back for something a minute later but it only takes a couple of seconds to see something a 2nd time if that is even needed

Didnt the 4th offical see Zidane headbutting Matterazi on a replay and called the refs attention to it from that?

So the story goes with Zidane. FIFA said the 4th official saw it, the press that he watched a monitor. there's only 1 person in the world who really knows.

Theres not much i can say why its different that isn't repeating myself. But it won't be full proof. It will slow the game up, there will still be mistakes and disagreements, and I don't fell that moves things on any further than were we are now.

[Razors left peg]

no I dont think it will ever be possible to get all the controversial decisions right from a refs point of view but my last point on it would be that refs should get all the help they can get