New Management Team for Under 21 Set Up

[greendeiseboy]

This issue deserves a thread of its own.

Last night has proven how low we've sunk in this age group.

It's obvious from his post match comments that the current manager Don Givens has lost the plot with regard to what is expected from him as a Manager. He has stated that results dont matter and that his purpose is to develop players for the senior squad. Ok, he has a point there and this is important but why compete in competeitions if thats the case.

The attached shows Givens record since September 2008 - we have not won one match in that period.

http://www.soccerway.com/teams/ireland-republic/ireland-republic-under-21/


It's just not good enough. His time is up. We need a change for the sake of the future of this team and for future development.

[Jacky08]

This issue deserves a thread of its own.

Last night has proven how low we've sunk in this age group.

It's obvious from his post match comments that the current manager Don Givens has lost the plot with regard to what is expected from him as a Manager. He has stated that results dont matter and that his purpose is to develop players for the senior squad. Ok, he has a point there and this is important but why compete in competeitions if thats the case.

The attached shows Givens record since September 2008 - we have not won one match in that period.

http://www.soccerway.com/teams/ireland-republic/ireland-republic-under-21/


It's just not good enough. His time is up. We need a change for the sake of the future of this team and for future development.

Totally agree

[eaststand85]

Yep, +1

[jbyrne]

results reflect performance and surely performance reflects on the development of the players. the results show that our players at u21 level are not developing. change now please

[drummerboy]

OK here are a few candidates:

Pat Fenlon
Mark Kinsella
Stephen Kenny
Curtis Fleming
Kenny Cunningham

[greendeiseboy]

Ray Houghton and Stephen Kenny - joint team would be my pick.

[Predator]

Ray Houghton and Stephen Kenny - joint team would be my pick.
I think he'd do a good job, but only after he gets us promoted!

[greendeiseboy]

I think he'd do a good job, but only after he gets us promoted!

Nah, ye'll be staying down with the Cork lads - The Blues and Shels this season to go up.

He could also do it it part-time and he'd also have a good insight into the LOI players.

[sixesandsevens]

Couldn't agree more with the sentiments in this thread. The results at this level have been appalling for the past few years, how Givens can say these players are developing is beyond me when they haven't won a game in years, young players thrive on confidence and playing in the current u21 setup is hardly instilling this in them.
It always seemed to me that Givens has always been held in very high regard by Delaney and Co and as long as he's the Fai top cat Givens will be guarunteed a job. Could also be the case that he's relatively cheap to employ? Maybe someone might know that.
But certainly there are a number of good young managers around the countrywho would be able to bring these young players forward. IMHO Pat Fenlon would be an ideal candidate

[Duggie]

normally i wouldnt care that much about the u-21's but you look at that side last night and there are some really good players there. way to good to be losing these games. im not so sure about some of the names mentioned above though. Dont think Brian Kerr would take it even if he was offered it. John Aldridge had experience at tranmere, a possibility.

[Macy]

It always seemed to me that Givens has always been held in very high regard by Delaney and Co and as long as he's the Fai top cat Givens will be guarunteed a job. Could also be the case that he's relatively cheap to employ? Maybe someone might know that.
He seems to be untouchable for some reason. It's disgraceful the way he was blaming, and naming and shaming individual players, in the aftermath of yesterdays match.

How about Rico - know's both the League of Ireland seen, and spent time as a player and manager in England?

[sixesandsevens]

How about Rico - know's both the League of Ireland seen, and spent time as a player and manager in England?

yeah Rico wouldn't be a bad choice at all. But to be honest these young lads would be better off with a guy with some fresh ideas. If he's carrying on the way you say after that last match then he's just becoming part of the problem rather than trying to solve it.

[Ari Gold]

Could we get some sort of petition going outlining the fans dissatisfaction and send it on to the FAI.

Not some facebook farce but one of those proper online petitions. I guarantee it would get thousands of names on it.

[Predator]

Nah, ye'll be staying down with the Cork lads - The Blues and Shels this season to go up.

He could also do it it part-time and he'd also have a good insight into the LOI players.
You might be surprised! We still have a decent squad, with a few youth internationals.

I'd love for someone like Kenny to take over the U21 job, but I can't see Derry letting him do both.

[Philly]

I was at the game and have to say that we completely underperformed in every department. I was also at the draw with the Swiss in Waterford, in which we were lucky to nick a goal at the end.

From both games, it was clear to see that Givens is not getting anything near to the best out of the talented bunch of players he has at his disposal.

As for the argument that he is "developing" the players and it is not about results, that's rubbish. The results he gets are an indication that he is failing utterly to develop our younger players in any way. They seemed utterly directionless last night.

I hope he gets sacked. Bottoming that group is a shocking indictment of his ability to do his job.

[Deckydee]

I pushed years and years ago before Givens for Butch Wilkins

Other options include Jason Mcateer who spoke about it once. John Aldridge is also an option

[pineapple stu]

Not some facebook farce but one of those proper online petitions.
:D

Funniest thing I've read on here in ages!

The worst thing about watching the games on the couple of occasions I've seen them is how bad the performances are, particualrly against sides like Cyprus and Armenia. A lot of these lads have already played first team in England, let alone Ireland, and yet look like they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing.

I think I suggested Pete Mahon a few years back. I fully expect to still be suggesting him in a few years' time.

[Duggie]

i wouldnt let mcateer near it in fairness.

[elroy]

i wouldnt let mcateer near it in fairness.

Agree, didnt exactly set the world alright with Tranmere, Stan would prob do a better job than him.

[bennocelt]

yeah Rico wouldn't be a bad choice at all. But to be honest these young lads would be better off with a guy with some fresh ideas. If he's carrying on the way you say after that last match then he's just becoming part of the problem rather than trying to solve it.


In fact what about sending on email off to MNS, surely if Rico is in attendance they might throw this question to him?
if enuff people sent an email surely they would ask the question?
Might work?

[sixesandsevens]

Don't think a petition will be any use. This guy seems to do what he wants say what he wants with no regard for young players. I do recall him being the first guy to have a problem with Stephen Ireland. Maybe he'd still be a part of the Irish set up still if givens hadn't planted the seed to let the rot set in.
But the fai seem to be more than happy with him so all the petitions in the world won't shove him. If the media started to put some pressure on the association they might feel the need to do something. But with the coverage u21 football gets in Ireland this seems unlikely

[tetsujin1979]

Could we get some sort of petition going outlining the fans dissatisfaction and send it on to the FAI.

Not some facebook farce but one of those proper online petitions. I guarantee it would get thousands of names on it.
every online petition is pretty much a farce!

Don't think a petition will be any use. This guy seems to do what he wants say what he wants with no regard for young players. I do recall him being the first guy to have a problem with Stephen Ireland. Maybe he'd still be a part of the Irish set up still if givens hadn't planted the seed to let the rot set in.
But the fai seem to be more than happy with him so all the petitions in the world won't shove him. If the media started to put some pressure on the association they might feel the need to do something. But with the coverage u21 football gets in Ireland this seems unlikely
Kerr was the first manager to have a problem with Stephen Ireland, he walked out on Kerr when he was in charge of the U17s and Kerr didn't start him in a game in Cork, despite promising to do so.

[Razors left peg]

Kenny Cunningham is the man Ive been saying for ages on here that Id love to see.no management experience yet but has his coaching badges and as a pundit I think he comes across like he knows his stuff. Also as he as recently enough retired from football he wont be so out of touch with the young players as given seems to be.
I want someone in the job who is ambitous to get the senior job some day just like his players have ambition to get into the senior squad. There has to be a high level of motivation to play well and get results. Not winning a compeditive game for 2 and half years is counter productive for the development of players no matter what that Clown Givens says

[bwagner]

Welcome to Ireland lads
Im German born but 100% Irish , I just have to say this would never happen in any other country but here.

Its the old thing" ahh sure its Don , hes one the ole boys" mentality

These young men need to be shown a real coach and a person who can lead and guide.
I see Givens in Drogheda when we beat Sweden 1 nil 3 years ago in a friendly of course ...the way he was roaring and almost bully these lads shcoked me.

[bwagner]

Sorry for the spelling :O( its been a long day.

You only have to look at the amount of problems he has had with players..

Mc Cann
Ireland
Stokes
Treacy
Connolly
Foran, to name a few , they cant all be in the wrong.

[rebelmusic]

To be honest the one man who can bring serious light to this and be heard is dunphy. After the italy game he started mentioning it on the panel but o'herlihy quietened him. Can you phone into to any of his shows? Or is there a decent way to contact him.

Out U-21 setup should mirror englands, look how competitive they are! And think about it - the last underage manager to have a winning team was kerr, and those players that came out of it had amazing mentalities - duff, keane etc

Givens need to go, almost makes me cry having to think about it

[drummerboy]

At underage level with McCaffrey and Butler these kids have done well. Some have qualified for the elite stages of the competitions but when they reach U21 level they really start to underachieve. Its quite obvious that Don Givens is the problem.

[yapster]

Cunningham and other ex-players is not the way to go here, A foreign coach is needed to give expert coaching skills and a fresh perspective.

[Crosby87]

Out U-21 setup should mirror englands, look how competitive they are!


Does it occur to you they are more competitive due to better players and a much larger player pool?

[Charlie Darwin]

Does it occur to you they are more competitive due to better players and a much larger player pool?
That's part of it, but they have also derived huge benefit from replacing people who aren't performing. Don Givens seems to have exponential credit with the FAI and it boggles the mind.

Online petitions are generally not worth the paper they're not written on, but it would be some indication of the dissatisfaction is we could see how many signatures we can get. Somebody find Chris McCann's facebook - I'm sure he'd be more than happy to lend his name.

[tetsujin1979]

Cunningham and other ex-players is not the way to go here, A foreign coach is needed to give expert coaching skills and a fresh perspective.
I'm unfamiliar with the successes of underage coaches outside of their own country. Please regale us with tales of these conquests.

[Yard of Pace]

Trap or Tardelli might know a good coach who could come in and change things up? Wasn't Tardelli an underage manager for Italy at some point?
Cunningham is a decent suggestion but I'd favour someone with experience at this level.
I'd love to hear from the players too. Would any of them credit Givens with "developing" them, I wonder?

I like the idea of contacting Dunphy. He's well capable of getting his voice heard, as we all know, and I think this issue is something that he'd get behind.

[sixesandsevens]

I like the idea of contacting Dunphy. He's well capable of getting his voice heard, as we all know, and I think this issue is something that he'd get behind.

It certainly would be, but why on earth should the media need to be goaded into making this a talking point in Irish soccer? Are the media that one-dimensional with only eyes focussed on the senior team? I think the lack of pressure being put on Givens has as much to do with the FAI good ol' boys as it does the plain disinterest being shown in the Irish media. Sure Dunphy has mentioned it, fair play to him for doing so, but we really should be questioning the rest of the Irish football journalists who haven't been up in arms about our performance at this level. Media pressure pushes FAI buttons and this thread should be far more interested in e-mailing a couple of the leading football pundits/journalists in the land to start raising the issue. So if anyone here knows come contacts in that business it would go much much further than any online petition/protest.

[Acornvilla]

next home game people could bring givens out banners and hold a protest?

[Drumcondra 69er]

Decent peice from Dan McDonnell in the indo today, developing into a very decent journalist to give him his due.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-last-straw-2089575.html

[jbyrne]

it was put to giles on newstalk last evening but as he's a mate of givens he didnt want to say very much. he did say it should really be up to the senior manager to choose who it is and that the senior manager should have a bigger role with the 21s

[sixesandsevens]

great article! Hopefully a few more journalists will pick up on this matter as well, but fair play to the lad for getting the ball rolling in the press

[gwhite]

Can't we get a petition going to try and get rid of this simpering moron? Anyone else in any other country with the same record would've been fired long ago. They should fire him today, it's a results based game ffs!

[Deckydee]

Should we get Dunphy on him. Serious

[DeLorean]

It's just incredible that absolutely no standards need to be met. My second biggest fear would be that they'd replace Givens with some other old fella deep in the pockets of the FAI. Likely enough scenario I'd imagine. My biggest fear, obviously, is that Givens will remain til death do us part.

[Deckydee]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/givens-i-have-no-plans-to-quit-job-2088477.html

Oh no!!!..............But Givens, who has been in the job since 2000 and has reportedly been offered a new contract by the FAI, is refusing to even contemplate quitting...

[bennocelt]

next home game people could bring givens out banners and hold a protest?


I like this idea a lot, might be worth a try;)

[Yard of Pace]

Super article from McDonnell. Just print it out and post it to Givens and the FAI. Every day.

[Deckydee]

Givens could be on this way according to this:

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/news.asp?n=38235

Also found this:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/givens-does-not-justify-the-means-2091397.html

[livehead1]

I would very much like to see an inexperienced young manager with plenty of potential such as Kenny Cunningham given the role, supported on a kind of consultancy basis by someone like David O'Leary. Whatever his stint and Leeds and Villa he has a great knowledge of what make's young players tick and has been proven to know how to get the best out of them. This combined with the obvious respect that someone like Cunningham would get from young lads who saw him growing up leading his country could be the kind of thing that works.

Anything is better than the setup we have at the moment.

[Nagger]

I'd love to see Foppe de Haan take the job. He did really well with the the Dutch u21 squad. And with Wim Koevermans, there is allready a Dutch link there..

[Razors left peg]

I would very much like to see an inexperienced young manager with plenty of potential such as Kenny Cunningham given the role, supported on a kind of consultancy basis by someone like David O'Leary. Whatever his stint and Leeds and Villa he has a great knowledge of what make's young players tick and has been proven to know how to get the best out of them. This combined with the obvious respect that someone like Cunningham would get from young lads who saw him growing up leading his country could be the kind of thing that works.

Anything is better than the setup we have at the moment.

Glad to see Im not the only one championing Cunninghams case, but as u say anybody would be an improvement. I actually wouldnt mind Pat Fenlon in the role either, he really is an excellent coach

[yapster]

I would very much like to see an inexperienced young manager with plenty of potential such as Kenny Cunningham given the role, supported on a kind of consultancy basis by someone like David O'Leary. Whatever his stint and Leeds and Villa he has a great knowledge of what make's young players tick and has been proven to know how to get the best out of them. This combined with the obvious respect that someone like Cunningham would get from young lads who saw him growing up leading his country could be the kind of thing that works.

Anything is better than the setup we have at the moment.


The same was said about Staunton. Foreign coaching is whats needed although o'Leary would not be a bad option.

[Razors left peg]

The same was said about Staunton. Foreign coaching is whats needed although o'Leary would not be a bad option.

you keep going on about this magical foreign coaching, but its there any one coach in particular u would like to see or even a few realistic options?

[Dodge]

The same was said about Staunton. Foreign coaching is whats needed although o'Leary would not be a bad option.

Can you stp posting the same thing all the time. Jesus...