Selfish Irish Players

[an_ceannaire]

Robbie Keane last night, Shay Given on numerous occasions.
Why did they play last night? How are we ever going to groom new players when these two larks insist on playing every game no matter how pointless, and that was one pointless excercise last night. Leon Best must have been fuming.

They want to play as many games as they can for their country...la la la....

Given just wants the record and thats a fact. And Trap aint gonna upset them.

And as for Kilbane playing last night....what was the f**king point on that!!!

That game last night was a pathetic excuse for an "international" gain another cap and become a hometown hero

Should have been new up and coming players. Keane Duff Given should have been no where near the team :mad: :mad: :mad:

[pineapple stu]

Have you ever started a thread that wasn't utterly pointless?

[livehead1]

How can you criticise individuals who have given up more time for their country as footballers than nearly any other Irishman to play the game? Whilst aware that it is an honour to play for your country there are many others that saw it as their divine right to withdraw from games, especially friendlies. Similar countries such as Wales are suffering with their start players, Craig Bellamy for example, who remain unavailable for games. The players remaining in our squad are proud to play for their country and as such I will support them 100%

I'd be extremely worried about holding your opinion in any regard if you truly believe your statement.

[an_ceannaire]

So tell me, honestly, do ye think Irish Football was better served last night by starting a group of players with 60+ caps, 2 of them with 100+, than starting lads like McCarthy, Best etc? Really.
Please, tell me how.
Cos its a crock of sh1t

[pineapple stu]

Yes. How do you think the younger players - Lawrence, McShane, St Ledger, Kelly et al - are going to learn if they don't have experienced players alongside them showing the ropes?

[Duggie]

FFS stupid thread. its up to trap to pick the team. if he wants to field an 11 of young hopefulls then thats what he will do. we would have been slaughtered last night if we fielded an inexperienced side. we will be more that glad to see robbie and shay come the euro 2012 qualifying campaign starts when our campaign will HINGE on these players. im sick of hearing this sh1te about robbie and shay looking for caps.

[greendeiseboy]

While I dont fully agree with you, I dont completely disagree either.

Given maybe should have played the 1st half and then Westwood should have come on.

Keane instead of Doyle maybe coming off.

Cunningham or Wilson for Kilbane/ McShane but we were very limited in what he could do as regard changes in defence.

In fairness to Trap he did change most of the midfield around and he could also only make six changes.

[Duggie]

there will be other chances in friendly games where we will have more possession. Trap didnt want a huge defeat last night which could have happened if we were to disjointed. in the first half we played some nice football, i took a lot of positives from last night. kelly was very solid at right back.

[OwlsFan]

an_ceannaire (the leader?) is imho a stalking horse who posts controversial topics for the sake of it to keep the Forum active and energized. Here are some of the threads he has started:

Selfish Irish Players Started by an_ceannaire, 03/03/2010 9:59 AM

Should we stop recruiting NI players Started by an_ceannaire, 23/02/2010 3:03 PM

We hate the Irish (more than england now) -Scottish Fans Started by an_ceannaire, 24/02/2010 10:13 AM

Everton - Could they go down Started by an_ceannaire, 26/11/2009 3:15 PM

Mick McCarthy...Shame on you Started by an_ceannaire, 16/12/2009 9:19 AM

An Over Rated Irish 11 Started by an_ceannaire, 31/12/2009 11:41 AM

Lack of Respect for John Giles

Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

Well that put Miriam back in her box!

Is this harsh/realistic?

"A skinny rat, a skinny little rat"

etc etc.

All topics that produce a knee jerk reaction or just a reaction and to be fair to him they do so I wouldn't pay too much attention to the sentiment - they are just there to be controversial for the sake of it.

p.s. I always thought it was the manager that picked the team not the player. There I fell in to his trap ;)

[Fizzer]

Don't take the bait lads, biggest WUM around. Agree witcha Duggie, Kelly was very impressive

[lopez]

I remember a time when players couldn't give a toss about playing for Ireland (1983-1986). Ronnie Whelan playing for Liverpool week before and after an Ireland game. Couple of others I could think of. I thought this thread was about selfish players staying at home, but instead it's about their selfish desire to play for their country. Give me a break!:rolleyes:

[Crosby87]

If RK and Shay are selfish what on earth does that make Stephen Ireland?

[elroy]

You have got to have a right blend of youth and experience. Last night was not the night to draft in a bunch of new faces, Brazil wouldve slaughtered us. However, I do think Keane shouldve come off instead of Doyle.
The friendlies this summer will be a more appropriate time to bring through the younger lads, similar to what Trap did in Portugal before the previous campaign.

[SwanVsDalton]

You have got to have a right blend of youth and experience. Last night was not the night to draft in a bunch of new faces, Brazil wouldve slaughtered us. However, I do think Keane shouldve come off instead of Doyle.
The friendlies this summer will be a more appropriate time to bring through the younger lads, similar to what Trap did in Portugal before the previous campaign.

100% agree. A bunch of new caps getting thumped by Brazil wouldn't have done anyone any good. And Trap as right to keep as many faces from the play off together as possible, helps to build momentum and continuity. There's plenty of time for new faces to come through.

[CarrickFan]

Lads im pretty sure that Trap stated he wanted to field his strongest team for this game as close to the Paris match as possible to put that to bed...and that the 2 friendlies against Paragauy and Algeria at the end of the season would be used more for experimenting and blooding new players....maybe a bit of research before posting would be advised.

[an_ceannaire]

Dean Kiely retired stating 100% it was because Shay Given never gave him a chance to play as he insisted on playing all the games to "get the record"
Shay Given isnt doing that for Ireland, he's doing it for Shay Given!

[gustavo]

Dean Kiely retired stating 100% it was because Shay Given never gave him a chance to play as he insisted on playing all the games to "get the record"
Shay Given isnt doing that for Ireland, he's doing it for Shay Given!

Shay Given doesn't pick the team,The manager does

[theworm2345]

Arseholes...wanting to play for their country, the nerve of these players! The same thing half of you slate certain players for ALLEGEDLY "not wanting" to.

[Razors left peg]

FFS cant get over some people on here sometimes. would ya prefer if everyone had the attitude of Steven Ireland

[SkStu]

i touched on it before but i dont see why Given and Keane got 90 minutes last night. It was a meaningless friendly, who cares if we got thumped 2-0 (as we did) or 4-0. A loss is a loss. Why do we care so much about "winning" friendlies? I thought that mentality was gone with the departure of Brian Kerr.

I admire the dedication and ambition of the Keanes and Givens and wouldnt call them "pathetic" or "selfish" as the OP stated but, come one, he has a point - friendlies are the perfect opportunity to give experience to the peripheral players and i think last night was a lost opportunity to do that. I dont understand Traps rationale at all i.e. to get the France game out of their system... a performance like the 2nd half last night would do more harm than good to the established players.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, i know its not a popular opinion but thats all it is - an opinion and its a valid one too.

edit: And no-one is calling for a team of 11 new caps but our back-up goalies and strikers have very little experience and should have seen some considerable game time and tested themselves against one of the best teams in the world.

[Razors left peg]

I did think Robbie should have been taken off last night simply because I didnt think he wasnt playing well. But this is gonna be the core of the squad for the next qualifying campaign, I dont see that there will be very many changes so last night was a good opportunity for the some of the players to get the Paris game out of their system. We all want so see new players being introduced all the time because it freshens it up and makes friendlies and bit more exciting but I really dont think that playing against a Brazil team that are fighting for world cup places was the place to do it. Look what happened when we took off Whelan and Duff last night, we started falling apart a bit, that could have happened from the very start with an inexperience team and a hammering would have done no one any good

[SkStu]

look at the team Capello picked tonight against Egypt

Green, Brown, Upson, Terry, Baines, Walcott, Lampard, Barry, Gerrard, Rooney, Defoe.

now, i know its preparation for the WC but theres a lot of inexperience there, testing out players for the future. Its only a friendly too at the end of the day and i would have hoped that Trappatoni would say whats past is past, lets have a look at a few players. I dont agree with his theory of getting the France game out of the players system. It should be already. Time to look forward and plan for the campaign ahead.

[Razors left peg]

I dont get ur point there SkStu.Green is first choice. Upson automatic back up to Ferdinand,Brown has plenty of caps and Barry is first choice for a while now. Baines is the only new cap and thats only because of the Bridge and Terry situtation

[CarrickFan]

I dont get ur point there SkStu.Green is first choice. Upson automatic back up to Ferdinand,Brown has plenty of caps and Barry is first choice for a while now. Baines is the only new cap and thats only because of the Bridge and Terry situtation

Exactly...the situations are in no way comparable.

[SkStu]

yeah fair enough - Brown was a mistake but i didnt exactly do my reseaerch very well there... :oops:

[SkStu]

but the fact that im wrong once only goes to show how often i am right...

[Razors left peg]

haha :)

[CarrickFan]

but the fact that im wrong once only goes to show how often i am right...

In fairness i generally do agree with your posts(especially any anti Shams ones!!!!)...just not this time!!

[donalmcdonagh]

FFS stupid thread. its up to trap to pick the team. if he wants to field an 11 of young hopefulls then thats what he will do. we would have been slaughtered last night if we fielded an inexperienced side. we will be more that glad to see robbie and shay come the euro 2012 qualifying campaign starts when our campaign will HINGE on these players. im sick of hearing this sh1te about robbie and shay looking for caps.


I agree 100%, we dont have the calibre of young players to be bringing 5 or so of them in. Anyway, no manager would do such a thing at international level...maybe Stan..he did it in qualifiers didnt he???

This is a tabloid thread...rubbish

[yapster]

I do think Keane & Given are eyeing the record and thats ok too.

[Charlie Darwin]

This thread... are we supposed to believe Trapattoni has become one of the most decorated managers in world football over the past few decades, but is too weak and submissive to tell Shay Given he'll be sitting on the bench tonight? Nonsense.

[SkStu]

This thread... are we supposed to believe Trapattoni has become one of the most decorated managers in world football over the past few decades, but is too weak and submissive to tell Shay Given he'll be sitting on the bench tonight? Nonsense.

did you never see/hear Shay screeching at his defenders..? Id back down fairly quick if I was Trap too... ;)

okay im admitting defeat on this thread....

[Deckydee]

Players Out! :o)!

[OwlsFan]

This is a tabloid thread...rubbish

Good description.

an_ceannaire likes to post these type of threads and then sits back and watches the fun. Some are good like the Norn Iron poaching thread but others are pure tabloidese like this one.

[pineapple stu]

look at the team Capello picked tonight against Egypt

Green, Brown, Upson, Terry, Baines, Walcott, Lampard, Barry, Gerrard, Rooney, Defoe.
9+23+19+59+1+77+36+78+58+39=399 caps.

Ireland v Brazil - Given; Kelly, St Ledger, McShane, Kilbane; Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews, Duff ; Doyle, Keane.
102+17+11+21+102+7+19+14+82+34+98=507

So 400 caps v 500 caps overall. Not much of a difference really.

[tetsujin1979]

9+23+19+59+1+77+36+78+58+39=399 caps.

Ireland v Brazil - Given; Kelly, St Ledger, McShane, Kilbane; Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews, Duff ; Doyle, Keane.
102+17+11+21+102+7+19+14+82+34+98=507

So 400 caps v 500 caps overall. Not much of a difference really.
Take Keane out of it (as was the original plan) and there's almost no difference at all

[DeLorean]

When someone admits they're wrong, is there really any need for further research to prove he's wrong?

Of course there is :o

[SkStu]

When someone admits they're wrong, is there really any need for further research to prove he's wrong?

Of course there is :o

haha, thanks - i think its called twisting the knife...

admitting your wrong is better than going quiet and running away like PS did in the Chris Turner thread the other day...

[pineapple stu]

admitting your wrong is better than going quiet and running away like PS did in the Chris Turner thread the other day...
Eh?

You admitted you didn't know the full facts and that it was quite possible there were mitigating circumstances (viz Sligo not carrying out their side of the contract). What did I need to say after that?

[SkStu]

well you actually asked me to prove how there had been a valid contract between Turner and Sligo, implying that you thought that there wasnt. I pointed out how i know there is and asked you to show me the legal precedent that proves otherwise. I didnt hear back from you. And The Observer and I went on to speculate on how the contract could have been breached by either party based on the circumstances of the case.

Anyway, this off topic stuff may need to be moved.

But thanks for going out of your way to prove me wrong, even though id already admitted my post was a load of crap.

[pineapple stu]

implying that you thought that there wasnt.
You made a very sweeping statement, and I was asking what your basis for that very sweeping statement was. Any implications are your own. If a Rovers fan had made that statement about Bohs, you'd have been up in arms about it.

[SkStu]

You made a very sweeping statement, and I was asking what your basis for that very sweeping statement was. Any implications are your own. If a Rovers fan had made that statement about Bohs, you'd have been up in arms about it.

okay, sure.

I dont think anyone else reading the thread would read it that way. And youve already had one post moved to rubbish for making that same point about "if Rovers had...".

[pineapple stu]

So you don't think that "The contract he had with Sligo is valid. No court in the land will dispute that." is a very sweeping statement? You think it's a bit unreasonable to ask someone to back up that statement? And when you subsequently go back on yourself and admit that there may actually be ways that that isn't the case, we should all go chasing after you some more?

You admit you're wrong here and give out because people continue to show that you're wrong. You admit you're wrong elsewhere and give out because people don't continue to show that you're wrong.

Fair enough.

[SkStu]

So you don't think that "The contract he had with Sligo is valid. No court in the land will dispute that." is a very sweeping statement? You think it's a bit unreasonable to ask someone to back up that statement? And when you subsequently go back on yourself and admit that there may actually be ways that that isn't the case, we should all go chasing after you some more?


are you for real? Its not a sweeping statement at all - its a fact. And there are no ways that this isnt the case. The contract may have been breached by either party but that doesnt mean that there was never a contract. You need to start reading posts properly and stop pretending you know it all already. Ill break it down into more simple terms for you so you can understand - Sligo offered Turner a contract. He accepted it. They paid him. Hey presto, valid contract. Nobody knows, without all the facts, whether Sligo or Turner then proceeded to breach that contract. Even breaching a contract doesnt always invalidate a contract. As i requested from you previously, if you are aware of some changes to the fundamental principles of contract law then please share them.


You admit you're wrong here and give out because people continue to show that you're wrong. You admit you're wrong elsewhere and give out because people don't continue to show that you're wrong.

thats just bizarre. At least i have the integrity to actually admit when i get things wrong something you seem incapable of doing. I didnt admit i was wrong in the Turner thread because, erm, im not.

[gustavo]

Well this thread has run it's course :)

AOB can be taken to PM