Player eligibility row

[an_ceannaire]

Now I know well the GFA allows all persons in the North to hold either passport, and I know it can be a little funny to see the Norn Iron lads get all upset, and I know that most Northern Catholics do feel more affinity to the ROI than the North.

BUT

Should we, for the sake of the game, and in the genuine spirit of fairness quit poaching their players?
I mean Shane Duffy sounds like a decent prospect, but for Gods sakes the IFA have practically raised him in the international game. For him to then turn around, give them 2 fingers and say "thanks lads, i'm off" is just plain wrong.
Gibson the same.

People here were giving out yards at the cheek of the SFA to try and recruit McGeady and McCarthy a while back, after we "raised him"
Well this is the very same......
Except when we are the thieves, its ok? But when the Scots do it....its not?

One of these days a lad from say, Dundalk, with Northern Parents might decide he wants over there after coming through our ranks. Would love to see our reaction to that! How dare he! Traitor etc etc

I realise Duffy has ROI parents. I know this. But it still doesnt change the fact that the IFA looked after him since being a kid and this is ultimately a betrayal.

What if this starts a trend. What now if all Catholic lads decided they want to play for us....
The NI team would collapse. Do we really want that?? I dont.

Players like Mal Donaghy, Gerry Armstrong, Martin O'Neill, Alan McKnight, Pat Jennings all played for the North and did so with pride. Lennon is the obvious exception, but its not like all other Catholics were treated badly... they werent!!

If the ROI didnt go actively seeking to recruit players from NI this wouldnt happen. We need to stop it. Now if a player declares for us of his own free will, then thats different. But for us to go recruiting players from different associations is just plain wrong, i dont care how good he is or isnt.

on a side note, as an evertonian, i think it will end up a lot of fuss over very little. The lad is a decent player, but he is not the next Paul McGrath or Jimmy Quinn!!

[elroy]

In a short answer, NO. Our pool is small enough as it is and an individual born in the six countries is rightly eligible to play for ROI. The real issue here is the defection after a number of years with NI.

Its hard to ignore the political issue here but if one thing supporting and following ROI around the world has taught me, its how many people from the north consider the ROI "their" team and have no affiliation with NI.

Yes technically the ROI represents the 26 counties but we are a relatively unique situation. Anyone born in the north is rightly imo entitled to a ROI passport and then should be entitled to represent the ROI if they so wish. Even if they do not have any direct relations born in ROI (e.g. the Gibson case).

I think the real issue here is the chopping and changing. The new rules are ridiculous imo and should at least revert to what was in place before. For example, I think a game at U21 level should tie a player to that country. This would lessen the likes of the Duffy incident to an extent.

If James McCarthy suddenly declared for Scotland, we would be very pi**ed off about the decision even though the lad would fully be within his rights, so I can understand that NI are aggrieved over the whole incident. However, the real issue here is not the eligibility and is the defection after a number of years spent coming through the ranks. I think it is NB to point out that difference.

[Acornvilla]

i think if there good enough and want to play for us i have no problem with that. the lads that make the decisiove are very brave and i think we should respect their wishes but yeah i think a player should have to choose before he gets an u21 cap

[an_ceannaire]

Elroy, thanks for that. Decent reply.
While I agree that players from NI should have the right to declare for us, I also feel in this case, we shouldnt have "gone looking for him"
Thats my main problem with this. Its not that he declared for us, which after so long with NI i do think was bad form, but more so I feel ROI going actively tapping him up, and thats what it is, nothing else, thats wrong. Shane Duffy played all his international football with NI, he then comes of age, plays for a big club and next thing we go "Oi, Shane, come to us. Dont mind those prods" .... if we had left him alone, I have no doubt he would be a happy NI international today. As after all those years in their academy's etc, he should be.

[elroy]

Maybe Im missing something in the whole Duffy story and correct me if i am, but i am not aware of the FAI actively chasing Duffy down to declare for us? Im not that naive to think it hasnt happened to some degree behind the scenes but has it actually been reported??

In fairness to the FAI, its not like they tend to overlook available talent, they are usually good at identifying the young lads who are eligible and bringing them into the set up at a young age, McCarthy and McGeady are prime examples.

[an_ceannaire]

Liam Brady made the first contact according to the lads father in an interview on Cool Fm in Belfast

[ifk101]

Liam Brady made the first contact according to the lads father in an interview on Cool Fm in Belfast

He did have trials with us at a very early age but the IFA were willing to fast-track his international progress and offer him more opportunities than we were offering at the time. Despite his progress within NI's ranks, it appears that those around Shane were letting the FAI know that Shane was still keen on us (so to speak) but the FAI needed to indicate that the possibility for Shane to play with us still existed - which Brady seems to now have done.

[TrapAPony]

In a short answer, NO. Our pool is small enough as it is and an individual born in the six countries is rightly eligible to play for ROI. The real issue here is the defection after a number of years with NI.

Its hard to ignore the political issue here but if one thing supporting and following ROI around the world has taught me, its how many people from the north consider the ROI "their" team and have no affiliation with NI.

Yes technically the ROI represents the 26 counties but we are a relatively unique situation. Anyone born in the north is rightly imo entitled to a ROI passport and then should be entitled to represent the ROI if they so wish. Even if they do not have any direct relations born in ROI (e.g. the Gibson case).



Totally agree with you elroy. You have it in a nutshell.

[dantheman]

No.

You are falling into the "poaching" trap. He wasn't poached, he wasn't kidnapped. Its pretty obvious that family connections were playing a part long before Liam Brady arrived on the scene.

Shane Duffy has more ties with the Republic than Cascarino & many, many others had - and also more than Maik Taylor has with NI.
This cannot be forgotten. Its a straw man argument.

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection as to why this is occuring on an increasingly regular basis. Some acknowledge the points, but try to play them down. The evidence speaks for itself. Maybe some good will come of it from a NI point of view.

Anyway its fairly settled now, and hopefully the young man will prove himself over time, all he has been given is a opportunity remember!

[awec]

No.

You are falling into the "poaching" trap. He wasn't poached, he wasn't kidnapped. Its pretty obvious that family connections were playing a part long before Liam Brady arrived on the scene.

Shane Duffy has more ties with the Republic than Cascarino & many, many others had - and also more than Maik Taylor has with NI.
This cannot be forgotten. Its a straw man argument.

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection as to why this is occuring on an increasingly regular basis. Some acknowledge the points, but try to play them down. The evidence speaks for itself. Maybe some good will come of it from a NI point of view.

Anyway its fairly settled now, and hopefully the young man will prove himself over time, all he has been given is a opportunity remember!

Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

[third policeman]

Difficult issue, but my concern is not so much with the poaching or the principle, but the potential implications for football in Ireland if more "nationalist" players in the North opt for RoI. On one level I am happy to see Duffy playing for my "preferred" Irish team (That OK IFK?) but it would be unhealthy to say the least if our international teams had even more pronounced sectarian identities. I know its a chestnut and total red rag to the likes of EG and GR, but an all Ireland football team would surely be preferable to two international teams predicated on political / religous loyalties rather than their territorial jurisdictions.

[dr_peepee]

Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

Yes. I can. Based purely on the fact that I wouldn't care if it was the other way round. Didn't care when Shane Lowry did it. Didn't care when McCarthy was linked with Scotland a few weeks ago. Didn't care when Kane did it. When Jim O'Brien said he's thinking of throwing his lot in with Scotland last week. Like when McCourt was at Rochdale and United were supposedly after him. There was an alleged tug of war between us over allegience that NI won (I recall reading in the Herald at the time). I don't care about Steven Ireland not even playing (the gick he spouts out that insults me intelligence annoys me mind you).

I'm happy if they commit, but if they don't I honestly don't see the big investment in them that warrants a sense of betrayal.

[dantheman]

Can you blame people for being annoyed at how he's done this? Put yourself in our shoes.

I can, because NI has a very small pool to pick from. You should be maximising it, not putting people off through your own belligerance. There are questions closer to home to be answered, and by all accounts the IFA/OWC fans simply aren't doing anything about. The ball lies in your own court.

But let's not overplay the compensation issue. He has never played for the NI senior team. He turned up for the Italy match and by all accounts wasn't treated very well. He may have played underage but you don't own him.


Furthermore, as regards the "Beggars", why would the people insulted so regularly by your support owe you anything? That's simply not realistic. Think about it....

[awec]

So by your logic, it's grand that you stole one of our players because some of our fans refer to you as beggars?

Excellent logic that.

[geysir]

There wasn't a murmour here when Kane and O'Connor returned, at least I don't remember any. I think most would have wished them well.
We are much more understanding about the fragilities of youth. I don't give much value to bitterness and begrudgery sentiments.
Duffy like most nationalist yewts in the North grew up supporting the Republic.

I am mystified as to how on earth the IFA hope to grab the attention of Nationalist yewts with attempting the stunt of a memory wipe and cough cough, I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know.

But more than all that, I would blame this man for the IFA's misfortunes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/rugby_union_season_ticket/img/8.jpg

[shakermaker1982]

I think it's only fair we do a swap. How about Northern Ireland receiving McShane? I promise I won't spit my dummy out.

[dantheman]

So by your logic, it's grand that you stole one of our players because some of our fans refer to you as beggars?

Excellent logic that.

No I didn't say that.
If you want any favours, you should stop the childish name calling against those with whom you wish to deal

[dantheman]

I am mystified as to how on earth the IFA hope to grab the attention of Nationalist yewts with attempting the stunt of a memory wipe and cough cough, I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know.

I don't know either, but they are aware of the issues and do not address them. It's beyond my comprehension this mentality. Sad to see, but they are their own worst enemies

[Docboy]

Simple fact is that the lad is more than eligible to play for us so it was up to him who to choose. Thanks to the GFA we can now, rightly so IMO, pick lads born in the six counties. I do feel a bit of sympathy for the North having invested their time & money in to his development but if you go about tying them down any earlier I reckon there's a real chance that it would result in a race to the bottom, capping all eligible players, just to get in there first. That's not going to solve anything.

Welcome aboard Shane, let's hope you're all you're cracked up to be.

[boovidge]

The way some NI fans are talking it's like the FAI kidnapped him and forced him to choose us.

[Greenforever]

Difficult issue, but my concern is not so much with the poaching or the principle, but the potential implications for football in Ireland if more "nationalist" players in the North opt for RoI. On one level I am happy to see Duffy playing for my "preferred" Irish team (That OK IFK?) but it would be unhealthy to say the least if our international teams had even more pronounced sectarian identities. I know its a chestnut and total red rag to the likes of EG and GR, but an all Ireland football team would surely be preferable to two international teams predicated on political / religous loyalties rather than their territorial jurisdictions.


And wouldnt it be preferable to have a GB team to represent the whole Island of Britain instead of 3 or 4 teams..

[Drumcondra 69er]

Is there really a need for another thread on this topic, it's been debated to death, and I mean to death on here many times.

Or was the old thread finally humanely destroyed?

[yapster]

Of course, if you are born on the Island of Ireland no matter your creed or color you are entitled to play for the you prefer either Ireland A or Ireland B.

[Mr_Parker]

Now I know well the GFA allows all persons in the North to hold either passport, It's got nothing to do with the GFA or passports. Born Irish play Irish as per the FIFA Statutes that apply to all associations.



and I know it can be a little funny to see the Norn Iron lads get all upset, and I know that most Northern Catholics do feel more affinity to the ROI than the North.


It's got nothing to do with religion either. It's about nationality.




BUT

Should we, for the sake of the game, and in the genuine spirit of fairness quit poaching their players?
I mean Shane Duffy sounds like a decent prospect, but for Gods sakes the IFA have practically raised him in the international game. For him to then turn around, give them 2 fingers and say "thanks lads, i'm off" is just plain wrong.
Gibson the same.


You do realise that the same is done by associations all across the world, including the IFA. And you want to deny people their nationality?




People here were giving out yards at the cheek of the SFA to try and recruit McGeady and McCarthy a while back, after we "raised him"
Well this is the very same......
Except when we are the thieves, its ok? But when the Scots do it....its not? See above.



One of these days a lad from say, Dundalk, with Northern Parents might decide he wants over there after coming through our ranks. Would love to see our reaction to that! How dare he! Traitor etc etc


Funny you should mention that, but my father did exactly that albeit not at full international level.





I realise Duffy has ROI parents. I know this. But it still doesnt change the fact that the IFA looked after him since being a kid and this is ultimately a betrayal.


Never stopped the IFA or others doing similar with players and Duffy is eligible because he is Irish, not because of his father.




What if this starts a trend. What now if all Catholic lads decided they want to play for us....
The NI team would collapse. Do we really want that?? I dont.


Again what has religion got to do with this. As for collapsing....!




Players like Mal Donaghy, Gerry Armstrong, Martin O'Neill, Alan McKnight, Pat Jennings all played for the North and did so with pride. Lennon is the obvious exception, but its not like all other Catholics were treated badly... they werent!!


That was their choice. There are plenty of current examples too, but that cannot be used as an argument to deny someone his nationality.



If the ROI didnt go actively seeking to recruit players from NI this wouldnt happen. We need to stop it. Now if a player declares for us of his own free will, then thats different. But for us to go recruiting players from different associations is just plain wrong, i dont care how good he is or isnt.


As stated, the FAI are not unique in their actions......Read Worthingtons own words

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/Mr_Parker2006/scan0169.jpg

[Gather round]

Should we, for the sake of the game, and in the genuine spirit of fairness quit poaching their players?

No, just agree that you won't select anyone who has already played for another country at u-19, u-21 or full (friendly) level after their 18th birthday. I mean, even within the rather hysterical reaction on OWC etc., most seem to be saying that they accept qualification through parent/ grandparent as well as residence, so clearly there's a basis for compromise.


One of these days a lad from say, Dundalk, with Northern Parents might decide he wants over there after coming through our ranks. Would love to see our reaction to that! How dare he! Traitor etc etc

One of these days a lad from say, Tralee, with a Northern grandparent who moved South as an infant 60 or 70 years ago might do so. Or at the opposite extreme, a kid from the toughest unionist estate in east Belfast might succumb to Gio's seductive patter, In either case I imagine there'd be some exaggerated outrage.


What now if all Catholic lads decided they want to play for us....The NI team would collapse. Do we really want that?? I dont

Thanks for that, but steady on. The RoI side didn't collapse when it included seven or eight players from Britain- and with current trends it might end up in that situation again.

As a related aside, Ireland's two best-known cricketers (from Dublin and Bray) are pleased to play for England for the sake of their own careers, and no-one doubts Northern Ireland players in the side would do the same if offered.

[Gather round]

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection!

Agreed. Mindless abuse against individuals and the football authorities, no self-awareness at all. It's terrible.


He turned up for the Italy match and by all accounts wasn't treated very well

You what? He's a 17 year old boy chosen in the (admittedly-weakened) squad to play the World champions. Short of lauding him as the new Pele, Ronaldo and Rooney rolled into one, how much more extravagantly could they reasonably have treated the bloke?


I know its a chestnut and total red rag to the likes of EG and GR, but an all Ireland football team would surely be preferable to two international teams predicated on political / religous loyalties rather than their territorial jurisdictions

Zzz. You've already got an all-Ireland team, padded out with Englishmen and Scots. And it's still third-rate. If you really want to merge with someone, try England. At least then you'll be able to watch their best players, not just the journeymen.


I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know

Stop stirring, or we'll send our imperial navy to Keflavik to kick off the Cod War again. Better fortify your igloo.


if you go about tying them down any earlier I reckon there's a real chance that it would result in a race to the bottom, capping all eligible players, just to get in there first. That's not going to solve anything

Disagree. We ought reasonably to be confident that an adult footballer accepting a cap at u-19, u-21 or full friendly level won't then go off to play for another country. If they don't want that cap- whether through loyalty to their other joint nationality, or because they think it potentially better for their career, or any other reason, they can always turn it down.


And wouldnt it be preferable to have a GB team to represent the whole Island of Britain instead of 3 or 4 teams

Er, no. You'll struggle to find many fans in Britain (or anywhere else) agreeing with that.


Of course, if you are born on the Island of Ireland no matter your creed or color you are entitled to play for the you prefer either Ireland A or Ireland B

Great, Oscar Wilde's on the thread. Qualify for more than one tournament in eight funny boy, then you can have a B-team.


There are plenty of current examples too, but that cannot be used as an argument to deny someone his nationality

Generally fair points, Mr P. I don't think there's any reasonable argument to deny someone his nationality (or multiple nationalities if applying), merely that you should only be able to play for one international football set-up as an adult.

[northerncelt]

should be stop "recruituing" players from Cork? Or Galway? Ofcourse not... that would be rudiculous....

[danonion]

I appreciate the few Northern Ireland football supporters who come on to our site and make well written and level headed posts. That however is where my appreciation of Norther Ireland football stops. Norther football is still sectarian, Nationalists were made unwelcome in Windsor (gag) Park for decades. If the situation has improved now so be it, but it doesn't legislate for the carry-on that took place there for decades.

Why should we care if we take players from the North who feel they are Irish. Should that lad be stuck playing for the second team on the island just because he played underage level for them?

I hope more players follow him.

[backstothewall]

I would echo what Mr Parker said except to add that a lot of lads play underage for the north cos its handier. At u14, u15 etc people may not be across the water, and even if they are playing for the north allows them to come home to their parents house etc.

And it has to be said that at underage levels, a lot of kids aren't that politically aware, but might be later in life. And that someone playing u18 football is still legally a child, and can't be asked to make a decision of that magnitude when they propably wouldn't legally be allowed to get married or buy a house

[Gather round]

should be stop "recruituing" players from Cork? Or Galway? Ofcourse not... that would be rudiculous....

If the Corkman or Galwegian already has an u-21 cap for Lithuania or Nigeria, no you shouldn't cap them. (Just a theoretical example, I don't know of any such players).


If the situation has improved now so be it, but it doesn't legislate for the carry-on that took place there for decades

It has improved, as confirmed by home and visiting fans and their football authoriities. No-one's clkaiming that legislates (overrides?) what happened previously, but you can't live in the past. Let's move on.


Why should we care if we take players from the North who feel they are Irish

All Northern Ireland players are Irish by birth or ancestry, with the exception of Maik Taylor- and he's hailed by fans as a proud Ulsterman by adoption ;)

I think you should care that the current rules allow players to play for two different teams, it's unreasonable. As it would have been if say, Craig Levein had persuaded James McCarthy to play for Scotland despite all his games for your U-21 side.


Should that lad be stuck playing for the second team on the island just because he played underage level for them?

If he played (ie, decided) as an adult, yes. It's only reasonable. They're two third-rate teams at the moment, btw. Look at the Euro 2012 seedings.


And that someone playing u18 football is still legally a child, and can't be asked to make a decision of that magnitude when they propably wouldn't legally be allowed to get married or buy a house

I've specified 18th birthday as a fair threshold. Before which you can marry in Britain- flit to Stranraer or Gretna and you don't even need a parent's permission.

[awec]

I appreciate the few Northern Ireland football supporters who come on to our site and make well written and level headed posts. That however is where my appreciation of Norther Ireland football stops. Norther football is still sectarian, Nationalists were made unwelcome in Windsor (gag) Park for decades. If the situation has improved now so be it, but it doesn't legislate for the carry-on that took place there for decades.

Why should we care if we take players from the North who feel they are Irish. Should that lad be stuck playing for the second team on the island just because he played underage level for them?

I hope more players follow him.
What a load of crap? Football is sectarian? Rubbish.

Nationalists not welcome in Windsor park? Yea, tell that to my catholic / nationalist mates that I attend the games with regularly.

I understand you may be on the wind up, but all this talk of Windsor Park and ni games being some loyalist prod fest is a myth.

[awec]

There wasn't a murmour here when Kane and O'Connor returned, at least I don't remember any. I think most would have wished them well.
We are much more understanding about the fragilities of youth. I don't give much value to bitterness and begrudgery sentiments.
Duffy like most nationalist yewts in the North grew up supporting the Republic.

I am mystified as to how on earth the IFA hope to grab the attention of Nationalist yewts with attempting the stunt of a memory wipe and cough cough, I hope you still don't mind if we just belt out GSTQ and glory be to the Empire, it's our solemn right to do that you know.

But more than all that, I would blame this man for the IFA's misfortunes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/rugby_union_season_ticket/img/8.jpg

You mean nationalist youths like Paddy McCourt, Nial McGinn and old day nationalists like Pat Jennings?

Or do you conveniently ignore them as it doesn't fit in with your fantasy of us being a bunch of bigots?

[MariborKev]

It's got nothing to do with religion either. It's about nationality.

Bang on.

I'd be far from a rabid Nationalist, but that is the key point for me.

[Gather round]

To be fair to those equating Irish nationalist/ Roman Catholic/ RoI fan and Ulster unionist/ Protestant/ NI fan, I'd guess it's just a quick shorthand. Rather than a suggestion that we're all religious maniacs.

[MariborKev]

Too right GR

My family consists of

Father: Brought up as a NI fan-stopped going to NI games in the late 70s early 80s after a a few scares. Had always followed as well ROI and then started going to ROI games again. Now at all home and away games.
Me: ROI fan since I was a kid
Younger brother: NI fan

We were taken to Windsor in the late 90s to see the games when the ROI were away from home and NI were home. The wee brother just had to be awkward!

[Crosby87]

Anything that the team can do under FIFA rules should be pursued.

[osarusan]

Perhaps this will be the wake up call that the northern authorities need. You should read the vitriol on the OWC website, basically childish insults just f**k him and f**k the FAI (and everyone else). There is little self reflection as to why this is occuring on an increasingly regular basis. Some acknowledge the points, but try to play them down. The evidence speaks for itself. Maybe some good will come of it from a NI point of view.


Did you develop your writing style over on OWC? Your comments on the Shane Duffy thread-



Its tough for some NI fans to accept that this can happen, as that's the way they were brought up (with the divine right to dictate to others what they can do).

Duffy will enjoy playing in the modern European city that is Dublin, where the jackboot of the Orangeman cannot trample over his hopes and dreams

[kingdomkerry]

Now I know well the GFA allows all persons in the North to hold either passport, and I know it can be a little funny to see the Norn Iron lads get all upset, and I know that most Northern Catholics do feel more affinity to the ROI than the North.

BUT

Should we, for the sake of the game, and in the genuine spirit of fairness quit poaching their players?
I mean Shane Duffy sounds like a decent prospect, but for Gods sakes the IFA have practically raised him in the international game. For him to then turn around, give them 2 fingers and say "thanks lads, i'm off" is just plain wrong.
Gibson the same.

People here were giving out yards at the cheek of the SFA to try and recruit McGeady and McCarthy a while back, after we "raised him"
Well this is the very same......
Except when we are the thieves, its ok? But when the Scots do it....its not?

One of these days a lad from say, Dundalk, with Northern Parents might decide he wants over there after coming through our ranks. Would love to see our reaction to that! How dare he! Traitor etc etc

I realise Duffy has ROI parents. I know this. But it still doesnt change the fact that the IFA looked after him since being a kid and this is ultimately a betrayal.

What if this starts a trend. What now if all Catholic lads decided they want to play for us....
The NI team would collapse. Do we really want that?? I dont.

Players like Mal Donaghy, Gerry Armstrong, Martin O'Neill, Alan McKnight, Pat Jennings all played for the North and did so with pride. Lennon is the obvious exception, but its not like all other Catholics were treated badly... they werent!!

If the ROI didnt go actively seeking to recruit players from NI this wouldnt happen. We need to stop it. Now if a player declares for us of his own free will, then thats different. But for us to go recruiting players from different associations is just plain wrong, i dont care how good he is or isnt.

on a side note, as an evertonian, i think it will end up a lot of fuss over very little. The lad is a decent player, but he is not the next Paul McGrath or Jimmy Quinn!!

No. Saying we should not pick a player from Belfast/Derry who wishes to represent his counrtry is like saying a player from Dublin/Cork should not get to represent his country. Why would any Irish man play for a country that flys the union jack, plays GSTQ or has a crown on its flag?

[Nedser]

I think there are 2 completely separate issues being debated here at the same time:
1. Should the FAI stop picking players who are born in the 6 counties?
2. Should players be allowed to represent one country up to U21 level and then another at senior level?

I'm not sure if there is actually any debate here in response to question 1, which is the question that was posed up front! There are numerous people arguing both ways in response to question 2 though.

My view in response to both questions is "no". In other words, if a player was born in the 6 counties, wants to play for the Rep and hasn't previously played for NI, then by all means we should pick him. Partly because we're allowed to and partly because I believe that person is every bit as Irish as I am. If he has already played for any other country at underage level though, then I believe he should be committed to that country.

That said, the FIFA rules allow it to happen, so it will happen, and among many different countries in the world. Most western countries are so cosmopolitan now that it's basically the norm for players to be eligible for more than one country. Let's be realistic anyway, this rule is rarely going to result in players defecting between the two Irelands after U21 level. A much more common scenario will be English born players who really want to play for England, get some underage caps, but then realise later on that they're not going to make the senior team. Then they'll get the "Who do you think you are?" team in to try and work out which part of Ireland their adoptive father's step mum was born in .....

The worst thing about the new rule is it means there will be even more Clinton Morrissons and Maik Taylors in the future.

[kingdomkerry]

I think there are 2 completely separate issues being debated here at the same time:
1. Should the FAI stop picking players who are born in the 6 counties?
2. Should players be allowed to represent one country up to U21 level and then another at senior level?

I'm not sure if there is actually any debate here in response to question 1, which is the question that was posed up front! There are numerous people arguing both ways in response to question 2 though.

My view in response to both questions is "no". In other words, if a player was born in the 6 counties, wants to play for the Rep and hasn't previously played for NI, then by all means we should pick him. Partly because we're allowed to and partly because I believe that person is every bit as Irish as I am. If he has already played for any other country at underage level though, then I believe he should be committed to that country.

That said, the FIFA rules allow it to happen, so it will happen, and among many different countries in the world. Most western countries are so cosmopolitan now that it's basically the norm for players to be eligible for more than one country. Let's be realistic anyway, this rule is rarely going to result in players defecting between the two Irelands after U21 level. A much more common scenario will be English born players who really want to play for England, get some underage caps, but then realise later on that they're not going to make the senior team. Then they'll get the "Who do you think you are?" team in to try and work out which part of Ireland their adoptive father's step mum was born in .....

The worst thing about the new rule is it means there will be even more Clinton Morrissons and Maik Taylors in the future.

1. No
2. Yes

[geysir]

You mean nationalist youths like Paddy McCourt, Nial McGinn and old day nationalists like Pat Jennings?

Or do you conveniently ignore them as it doesn't fit in with your fantasy of us being a bunch of bigots?
Ah, you presume too much and play the victim card, the most played but the most resilient card in the deck.
It is well known that Pat Jennings was the subject of vile sectarian abuse from home "fans" behind his goal for years at Windsor Pk. It is also well know that Pat had no choice as to what representative team he chose. And Pat has also made known his desire for an AI team on many occasions and yet he has no problem with working for the IFA
Pat is a professional and rose above the petty bigotry thrown at him, the credit for doing that is his, not the supporters. I have no doubt he was proud to represent NI in football, likewise many other professional players from nationalist background, but if Pat had a choice like MON he in all likliehood would have chosen the Republic.
Re McGinn and McCourt, I have no doubt they are honoured to be considered for the NI team and more power to them.
They are not playing for my team but it is their choice.
Irish people born in the North have demanded their right to automatic Irish citizenship be a large important part of the peace agreement.
There is a choice for Irish citizens born in the 6 counties as to what representative team they want to be considered for. It is a choice which has been scrutinised in fine detail detail by FIFA legal dept and the FIFA executive for many months in 2007 and 2008.
FIFA have not deviated one bit from enshrining the right of Irish citizens born on the Island to choose their representative team and switching is subject to the normal FIFA restrictions.
If you don't even slightly cop on to one of the most obvious factors - the GSTQ thing, you will never understand why the OWC identity thing (with the supporters) will be in the main composed by a vast majority by Unionists. The fact that some nationalist footballers play for NI does not change that. The fact that they can play in WP and not be the subject of vile abuse is very welcome.

[drummerboy]

I can understand the hurt being felt by NI fans and authorities about young Duffy's decision. However the question they have to ask is why is there a steady stream of young players from their area crossing the border and joining the FAI teams. They are not being offered anything financial or materialistic to come across. Most are probably not even been actively persued. The reason is that these kids have an affinity with the ROI team. What the IFA need to do is to try and entice the nationalist population to support the NI team. I don't know how they will manage to do such a thing but until they do this is going to continue to happen.

As regards remarks about the ROI team using English rejects, ect, well everybody is doing it. Most Eastern European teams now have a resident Brazilian in their team. Its just the way it is and people have to continue to develop their teams within the guildelines of the rules.

[Mr_Parker]

Irish people born in the North have demanded their right to automatic Irish citizenship be a large important part of the peace agreement.
There is a choice for Irish citizens born in the 6 counties as to what representative team they want to be considered for. It is a choice which has been scrutinised in fine detail detail by FIFA legal dept and the FIFA executive for many months in 2007 and 2008.
.

Can we get this cleared up once and for all. The eligibility of players has NOTHING to do with the GFA or any peace agreements.

[ifk101]

A point that shouldn't be forgotten here is that Duffy did have trials with us but the IFA came in and offered him greater opportunities for progression on the international stage. Duffy, who btw is still only 18 years of age, was subsequently fast-tracked through the NI underage teams and called into their senior squad for last year's friendly with Italy. While Duffy is without question a talented prospect within the game, his fast progression through the NI ranks had a secondary motivation; namely, to stop him playing for us. Indeed Nigel & Co. admitted as much when Duffy was included in the senior squad for the Italy game. While NI fans may feel aggreived that Duffy has come through their underage ranks only to declare for us, the IFA were well aware of Duffy's background, eligibility and desire to play for us.

Anyways I'm confused as to why the IFA decide to include Duffy's name in the squad for the glamour friendly against Albania, knowing full well that Duffy had made himself unavailable a week to up to 3 weeks in advance. This is all the more confusing in the context of Nigel Worthlesston's comments that "it is a ludicrous situation which needs to be resolved".

[tetsujin1979]

Can we get this cleared up once and for all. The eligibility of players has NOTHING to do with the GFA or any peace agreements.
How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.

[Deckydee]

How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.

Excatly. How is not revelant. The GFA is what changed everything, well in my opinion anyway

[Mr_Parker]

How is not relevant? It's not relevant in the case of Duffy, who's father is from Donegal, and qualifies for a passport through him.
Under the GFA, anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to a Republic of Ireland passport, regardless of where they, their parents, their grandparents were born. Under FIFA statutes, you must qualify for a passport for a country in order to represent that country at international football.


Excatly. How is not revelant. The GFA is what changed everything, well in my opinion anyway

I'll try to explain in simple terms. Before the GFA could an Irishman born in the north play for Ireland? Answer, yes.

Shane Duffy's birthplace is what qualifies him, not his fathers.

Fifa Statute 15 refers to nationality, not passports.

[tetsujin1979]

I'll try to explain in simple terms. Before the GFA could an Irishman born in the north play for Ireland? Answer, yes.

Shane Duffy's birthplace is what qualifies him, not his fathers.

Fifa Statute 15 refers to nationality, not passports.
only if that player had parents or grandparents born within the Republic, which would qualify him for a passport.
As I stated, it doesn't apply in Duffy's case because his father is from Donegal, but it does apply in the case of Gibson.

In future the GFA is going to become more and more relevant for players born in the North, but who want to play for the Republic.

[Mr_Parker]

only if that player had parents or grandparents born within the Republic, which would qualify him for a passport.
As I stated, it doesn't apply in Duffy's case because his father is from Donegal, but it does apply in the case of Gibson.

In future the GFA is going to become more and more relevant for players born in the North, but who want to play for the Republic.

I fear you are reading the wrong section. Please go and read the Statutes again. Section VI Article 15.


EDIT:

I'll save you the bother
Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent
on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the
representative teams of the Association of that country.

Simple? Clear?

[Lenny82]

I think it's only fair we do a swap. How about Northern Ireland receiving McShane? I promise I won't spit my dummy out.

You took the words out of my mouth. Sure we could even throw Steven Ireland in aswell as a good will gesture!!!!