What Role Does the League of Ireland Play in Irish Football?

[Acornvilla]

better media coverage would be a good start

[Rasputin]

Irish 15 year-olds aspire to playing in England and not the League of Ireland. I know because my son's team are u-15's and they all wear UK replica shirrts. In all of the years I have been involved with his team I cannot remember ever seeing one of the lads wearing a LoI shirt. They all eat, drink, sleep the English Premier League. I fear it's a tide that can't be stemmed so perhaps there is a way to rescue something from the situation?
Fair enough in Kildare but do not think your talking about the majority of the country here.
In Sligo Town itself Rovers have an enormous following and tbh I remember playing footie when I was a sprog wanting to emulate the Rovers players and it was the same for alot of the lads I played with.
Even if you walk through the town the amount of Rovers merchandise on show wouldnt be far off all the United, Liverpool and Celtic gear.
Just look at the statistics themselves for us.
The Town has a population of 25,000, we get on average 2000 a game, we brought something like 7000 to Tallaght last season, that is quite impressive if you ask me.
And this wouldnt be exclusive to us, just have a look at the likes of Dundalk and Harps etc which are integal focal points of the community and something you can always chat to someone about at work.

[A N Mouse]

I've tried searching but it's like looking into a bush. Can you just let me know, in your opinion, what is the single most important thing that needs to be done to improve the League of Ireland? Just one sentence please?

Woooaaah!

Hold your horses there, as has already been said 'how can we improve the league?'tm threads are ten a penny, and you were the one who refused to discuss how the national team fit in, as it was off topic, so how is changing the topic ok when you feel like it?

[Soccer Mom]

Evil enough to beat over the head with a big Amateur stick:D

OUCH !


I know but a lot is to do with attitudes rather than structures etc. If we can love our National Team why can't we love our National League? I don't get it!

As I said earlier people can support the LoI without it interferring with their following of the EPL and Internationals..... None of them clash!

I know I know but somewhere along the way will fell out of love with our league. My guess it has to do with the advent of football on TV allied to the fact that the English league has always had a good smattering of Irish players so we could watch the progress of our international players without leaving the house which brings me to ...


If we selected our Irish team entirely from the LoI we'd be sorted:D

It's certainly an interesting idea.


Woooaaah!

Hold your horses there, as has already been said 'how can we improve the league?'tm threads are ten a penny, and you were the one who refused to discuss how the national team fit in, as it was off topic, so how is changing the topic ok when you feel like it?

Well besides 'womens prerogative' :) - we had already moved on and were discussing my suggestion which was generally hammered so I think it's valid to ask someone that is critical of my suggestion for his ideas.

[eelmonster]

I know I know but somewhere along the way will fell out of love with our league.

Perhaps, understandably, in Kildare, where you were never really in love with the league in the first place, you were just messing us around. I'm still very much in love with the league. For me, Irish football means the League of Ireland.

[Soccer Mom]

Perhaps, understandably, in Kildare, where you were never really in love with the league in the first place, you were just messing us around. I'm still very much in love with the league. For me, Irish football means the League of Ireland.

Well actually I'm a Dub but I was speaking about the public in general. Please believe me I am being totally serious. Clearly I can't match the passion of a lot of the contributers here but would I really love to see a thriving League of Ireland.

One thing I didn't have an appreciation of was how defensive LoI supporters are. Maybe that is because League clubs and the League itself seem to have been struggling for decades and a siege mentality has set in. If I had been aware of this I would certainly taken a more sensitive approach. It was not my intention cause anyone any upset and I apologise if I have done so.

With respect to my original poser I think I have the answer: -

No, the League of Ireland is not of key strategic importance to football in Ireland - but it should be; and to true League of Ireland supporters it IS football in Ireland.

[marinobohs]

Perhaps, understandably, in Kildare, where you were never really in love with the league in the first place, you were just messing us around. I'm still very much in love with the league. For me, Irish football means the League of Ireland.

And that quote in a nutshell, sums it up.
I think we all recognise the need to make changes but not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. the authorities consistently enforcing thier own rules, greater promotion of the league (media etc) and a realistic approach by clubs to expenditure would all help but change has happened
- standard of play has improved dramatically in recent years
- european results have improved
- many clubs have built up schoolboy set ups
- MNS the best LOI programme ever !
- greater availibility of club merchandise (growing up i wanted a Bohs jersey but couldn't get one)
- community/school links have improved with most clubs.

We all know that further improvements are needed to develop the League but sometimes we overlook the efforts that have been made. there is not a League in europe that does not have some problems, the way to deak with them is to address them not to give up.
As why "Irish football fans" should support the LOI - why shoud they support the Ireland national team ? England are a better team so by the same logic we should all support England. There should be a pride in supporting our own league just as there is in supporting the national side.

[dong]

And that quote in a nutshell, sums it up.
I think we all recognise the need to make changes but not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. the authorities consistently enforcing thier own rules, greater promotion of the league (media etc) and a realistic approach by clubs to expenditure would all help but change has happened
- standard of play has improved dramatically in recent years
- european results have improved
- many clubs have built up schoolboy set ups
- MNS the best LOI programme ever !
- greater availibility of club merchandise (growing up i wanted a Bohs jersey but couldn't get one)
- community/school links have improved with most clubs.

We all know that further improvements are needed to develop the League but sometimes we overlook the efforts that have been made. there is not a League in europe that does not have some problems, the way to deak with them is to address them not to give up.
As why "Irish football fans" should support the LOI - why shoud they support the Ireland national team ? England are a better team so by the same logic we should all support England. There should be a pride in supporting our own league just as there is in supporting the national side.

Agreed Marinobohs.
Particularly the bit about the standard of football. I watched the full 1994 cup final with ourselves v Derry recently and I was shocked at how poor it was. It seemed great at the time (I was only a young fella!) but it was terrible stuff (despite the result).
The standard in the games these days is a hundred times better imo.
This may go unnoticed to those whose only point of reference is MOTD highlights. If you actually sit down and watch a full Bolton v Burnley game in the EPL, for example, you would be hard pressed to see much of a difference to be honest.

[osarusan]

No, the League of Ireland is not of key strategic importance to football in Ireland - but it should be; and to true League of Ireland supporters it IS football in Ireland.
You still haven't defined exactly what you mean by "football in Ireland." It is pretty safe to guess that LOI fans would have a different definition to yours though.

[Soccer Mom]

You still haven't defined exactly what you mean by "football in Ireland." It is pretty safe to guess that LOI fans would have a different definition to yours though.

Well my definition would include all levels from schoolboys to the League of Ireland to the national team. That is what I think of when someone mentions the football pyramid. Clearly some of the LoI fans here have a different view. That's the beauty about sport - it provides debating points.

[Gaillimh Al]

Was going to write a long piece but have a head cold and cant get thoughts together properly...

LOI is a key, in both developing players who may then go on to better things (O'Shea, Coleman, Fahey etc) and in providing REAL football fans in this country with a LIVE soccer experience which they don't have to get on a plane to experience(unless maybe going from Cork to Derry for the big First Division opener). The finances issues are beginning (last night and today is a big step) to get themselves in order after years of clubs chasing the European dream, which realistically wasn't going to change an awful lot for the majority. Hopefully a good balance will be found in the next few years, where teams will continue to nurture local talent and promote the best from the level below (intermediate/junior) and maybe a happy medium will be found. Maybe.

[passinginterest]

With respect to my original poser I think I have the answer: -

No, the League of Ireland is not of key strategic importance to football in Ireland - but it should be; and to true League of Ireland supporters it IS football in Ireland.

Not quite, the correct answer is yes the League of Ireland is of key strategic importance to football in Ireland, however it is currently undersupported, underutilised, underfunded, underdeveloped and underaknowledged. The only way to correct this is if the football community at all levels from grass roots to the top of the FAI are willing to recognise it's importance.

[Soccer Mom]

Not quite, the correct answer is yes the League of Ireland is of key strategic importance to football in Ireland, however it is currently undersupported, underutilised, underfunded, underdeveloped and underaknowledged. The only way to correct this is if the football community at all levels from grass roots to the top of the FAI are willing to recognise it's importance.

I hate to always appear to be disagreeable but... :)

... in my opinion it is up to the League to demonstrate it's relevance, attractiveness, and importance to the the wider football community. That will not happen until the clubs get their act together. Hopefully today's developments presage that. Obviously the majority of clubs seem to be heading in the right direct - was just outside Tallaght Stadium (had to get rid of my tickets - couldn't get to the match tonight) and there's a great buzz about the place. I suppose I'm a bit of a pessimist because I've seen so many false dawns. Also I think I may have been unduly influence by Daire Whelan's, Who Stole Our Game which I finished reading recently.

[dahamsta]

Could the minority that are just dropping in snarky one-liners please knock it on the head?

Whatever about the motives of the OP, the quality of discussion here is generally excellent, so just go with that. Try it on a few of the other threads too! :)

[Acornvilla]

I hate to always appear to be disagreeable but... :)

... in my opinion it is up to the League to demonstrate it's relevance, attractiveness, and importance to the the wider football community. That will not happen until the clubs get their act together. Hopefully today's developments presage that. Obviously the majority of clubs seem to be heading in the right direct - was just outside Tallaght Stadium (had to get rid of my tickets - couldn't get to the match tonight) and there's a great buzz about the place. I suppose I'm a bit of a pessimist because I've seen so many false dawns. Also I think I may have been unduly influence by Daire Whelan's, Who Stole Our Game which I finished reading recently.

lets agree to start being more optimistic :) there is plenty of potential in the league and it means a lot to a hell of a lot of people.. finally the powers that be seem to be flexing their muscles a tad more like they should, so sustainability and growth of the league is very possible in the near future

[Soccer Mom]

Whatever about the motives of the OP, the quality of discussion here is generally excellent, so just go with that. Try it on a few of the other threads too! :)

I swear I have no motives other than to get a get a better feel for why the LoI is of such strategic importance - as stated in the 2005 Genesis Report. I couldn't relate to the statement but I'm definitely better-informed now. I am certainly not trying to do down the League despite how it might appear.


lets agree to start being more optimistic :) there is plenty of potential in the league and it means a lot to a hell of a lot of people.. finally the powers that be seem to be flexing their muscles a tad more like they should, so sustainability and growth of the league is very possible in the near future

I'm all for optimism Acornvilla so long as it is not misplaced and there are reasonable grounds. Please don't take this as a condescending comment -

but once I got past the initial defensive 'attacks' I have come to realise that the passion of the contributers is genuine. And once again I'm probably coming late to the party here, but if that passion could be harnessed to proselytise on behalf of the League then maybe....

[dahamsta]

Soccer Mom, please use the button to the right of "Reply With Quote" to quote multiple posts. I've had a merge a dozen of your posts in this thread.

[Church Hill 1]

Long-time lurker, first post! This has been a fascinating read so I felt compelled to add my tuppence worth. In response to the OP, football in Ireland - or the LOI as we know it - is without doubt the most important cog in the FAI machine, even though it seems to be well down their list of priorities in terms of investment, promotion, etc., although the tough decisions on Derry and Cork are a step in the right direction.

As previous posters said, without the league, players like Doyle, Fahey, Coleman and going back further Roy Keane, Kevin Moran and Paul McGrath, may all have been lost to the game had it not been for the LOI. Not only does it provide Irish players with a realistic opportunity to make a good living from the game here, but it also rewards the better players as it puts them in the shop window for potential moves to the more lucrative clubs in the UK. So that's why the league is integral to Irish players, which in turn eventually provides players to the international team.

However, the league's main importance is to the fans and those who are employed or involved in the running of clubs. I recently moved to the USA and I can honestly say one of the main things I'll miss is the LOI and following Sligo Rovers. The club means everything to me. It's my home town team. I've followed them for more than 20 years. Through various fundraisers, gatherings, etc. I genuinely feel a part of the club I love. I have helped out behind the scenes. I have had many conversations with many managers and most of the players over the years. I drowned my sorrows alongside the players after the FAI Cup final defeat in November. How many Liverpool, Man Utd or Celtic fans could say the same about the club they call their own? I'm sure my experience of my club is mirrored up and down the country. But it is what makes being a fan of a LOI club so special. I feel privileged to be a fan of Sligo Rovers, a club with such a strong history and deep roots in its community. A club I can genuinely call my own.

Yes, the league has many flaws. Like Passinginterest said, it is under-supported, under-utilised, under-funded, under-developed and under-acknowledged. But it has been proven that with success on the pitch, clubs like Rovers, Shams, Bohs, Dundalk, Galway, Waterford, Derry and Cork could easily attract between 4 and 5,000 on a regular basis. Shams already are getting 6,000+, it is up to the rest of the league to match their adventure and endeavour to ensure a bright future for the league.

[danthesaint]

And that quote in a nutshell, sums it up.
I think we all recognise the need to make changes but not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. the authorities consistently enforcing thier own rules, greater promotion of the league (media etc) and a realistic approach by clubs to expenditure would all help but change has happened
- standard of play has improved dramatically in recent years
- european results have improved
- many clubs have built up schoolboy set ups
- MNS the best LOI programme ever !
- greater availibility of club merchandise (growing up i wanted a Bohs jersey but couldn't get one)
- community/school links have improved with most clubs.

We all know that further improvements are needed to develop the League but sometimes we overlook the efforts that have been made. there is not a League in europe that does not have some problems, the way to deak with them is to address them not to give up.
As why "Irish football fans" should support the LOI - why shoud they support the Ireland national team ? England are a better team so by the same logic we should all support England. There should be a pride in supporting our own league just as there is in supporting the national side.


great post, summed up how i feel about it.
i dont get the whole supporting a team in england thing i used to do it when i was younger, have been to games in england loads of time, and to me the standard of football was probably worse than loi football.
imo its all about money, i think sky and television are ruining football, its so easy for people in this country who put on a foreign jersey and go to the pub and watch the match, they will never experience the feelings we feel, we have a connection with our clubs, there is little or no investment from fai or government which doesnt help.
it doesnt help when someone like cork sells player like kevin doyle for less than 100k and now he is worth millions, same with fahey
results in europe are improving, at this stage, every team should have a stadium like the sdcc stadium
without a league of ireland there cant be a national team, i dont think alot of barstoolers know that, even those going to ireland games.
i dont go to ireland games, i dont think they do anything to represent our league, would love if fifa introduced a rule, whereby you have to select a certain amount of players from the league, would start getting people to take notice of players. its weird if someone gets called up to ireland team, that murphy lad that played with bohs, most loi fans would be delighted, same when it comes to europe, we would support each other, you wouldnt get that in the english league
alot of blame has to lie with parents as well, who do nothing to encourage their kids supporting loi football, what harm is it to go to a league of ireland game on friday and do whatever on saturday and sunday

irish football is league of ireland

[Macy]

The problem in Irish football is that too many of the constituent parts don't see the League of Ireland as the top of pyramid. The School boy clubs should be feeding into the League of Ireland clubs not being more concerned with their child exports, the intermediate leagues should see themselves as stepping stones for players or have aspirations themselves to compete in the League of Ireland. We've too much give everyone a piece of the pie thinking, and that comes back to the way the FAI is constituted.

However, why anyone would use the Genesis Report as the basis for any meaningful discussion is beyond me.

[pineapple stu]

I've tried searching but it's like looking into a bush. Can you just let me know, in your opinion, what is the single most important thing that needs to be done to improve the League of Ireland? Just one sentence please?
Get involved with your local club. Nonsense about "We should have more media exposure" or "We need an AIL" or "Let's change the number of teams" or anything like that is the internet equivalent of ringing Joe Duffy.

[Soccer Mom]

If you are implying that the Genesis Report is poor then I couldn't agree more. It is one of the worst, most lightweight reports of its' type that I have ever seen. As I said in an earlier post I, and I would suggest the majority of people in Ireland, could not relate to the extract in my original post and I couldn't agree with it. As the basis of a meaningful discussion I believe it performed admirably. I am better informed now than when I started the post and while I can't speak for other posters the quality of other posts suggest to me it was largely a worthtwhile exercise.


Get involved with your local club. Nonsense about "We should have more media exposure" or "We need an AIL" or "Let's change the number of teams" or anything like that is the internet equivalent of ringing Joe Duffy.

Thanks for that. I think that's coming at it from the wrong end. Someone will only get involved with their local club if they are already one of the converted. One of the problems for the League is that most people don't feel a connection to any club. Therefore it is up to the FAI / LoI /clubs to reach out to the public and make that connection.

[pineapple stu]

Couldn't disagree more. You asked for the single most important thing, and there it is. Your post merely seeks to use the age-old Irish problem of blaming someone else for the state the league is in (or whatever it is we're looking to moan about).

[Soccer Mom]

I agree that what you suggest would help solve the problem - but it's just not happening and it hasn't happened in sufficient numbers for more than 50 years.

I'm not blaming others - I'm blaming the FAI / LoI & the clubs

[pineapple stu]

I'm not blaming others - I'm blaming the FAI / LoI & the clubs
LOL!!

"Others" means "people other than you". You're clearly blaming people other than you. It's partly your fault why the LoI is seen as it is. So the single most important question is - what are you going to do about it?

Otherwise, this whole thread is just you moaning and coming out of it feeling good without having actually changed a single thing.

[Soccer Mom]

Sorry pineapple stu but I think you're missing the point. You seem to think that it is a responsibility of people that do not actively support the LoI to do so. But clearly most Irish people that are interested in football do not attend League matches. Simply stating that 'they should' changes nothing. The fact is that 'they don't' - and the question is 'how do the FAI, LoI and the clubs attract people to games?'

[pineapple stu]

I'm not missing the point; you asked me for the "single most important thing that needs to be done to improve the League of Ireland", and I gave it to you. Throughout this thread, you seem to not like what you don't want to hear.

The general attitude in this country of "I'd support the LoI if it were better and if a club got into the group stages of the CL" is one of the main things holding the league back.

Macro talk sounds good but is irrelevant because you've no input; you may as well start an internet petition. You, however, have input into what you do, so you go down to the micro level - what can you do? Answer - get involved in your local club.

[danthesaint]

Sorry pineapple stu but I think you're missing the point. You seem to think that it is a responsibility of people that do not actively support the LoI to do so. But clearly most Irish people that are interested in football do not attend League matches. Simply stating that 'they should' changes nothing. The fact is that 'they don't' - and the question is 'how do the FAI, LoI and the clubs attract people to games?'

what in your opinion attracts people to fly to england to watch a game??

[marinobohs]

Sorry pineapple stu but I think you're missing the point. You seem to think that it is a responsibility of people that do not actively support the LoI to do so. But clearly most Irish people that are interested in football do not attend League matches. Simply stating that 'they should' changes nothing. The fact is that 'they don't' - and the question is 'how do the FAI, LoI and the clubs attract people to games?'

Sorry to wade in but what defines "interested in football" ? wearing a man u/ liverpool/Arsneal top down the pub ? Watching your offspring play schoolboy football ? Kicking ten shades out of someone from different town/county/part of city ? Supporting your local club through thick and (mainly) thin ?

Many of what you may class as "having an interest in football" will never take an interest in the LOI because the interest is too narrow based. Many more are social fans (something to talk about over a pint). Personally I know fans who go to most Ireland away games but don't go to the home matches - hardly likely to go to LOI games anytime soon.
The people who get involved in thier local clubs as PS has indicated are people I would see as "interested in football" and unfortunately there are far too few of them. Clubs have made progress in broadening the appeal of the LOI but in my opinion the potential market is not as great as people sometimes think.

[Soccer Mom]

what in your opinion attracts people to fly to england to watch a game??

Well there is no question that the quality of football is higher but the best players in the world will always gravitate to where the money is. People are suckers for hype and gloss. The majority of people that travel over have grown up thinking of UK teams as 'their team'. The mindset is now deeply ingrained and that's why I don't agree with pineapple stu that it's simply up to people to decide to support LoI clubs. They won't because they don't feel any affinity for them. For a whole variety of reasons generations of fans in Ireland now have a blind spot for the LoI. That's the fact and wishing that it wasn't won't change anything. It's going to take concerted action by those that are committed to the League to undo the current mindset.

[pineapple stu]

that's why I don't agree with pineapple stu that it's simply up to people to decide to support LoI clubs.
That's not what I said on two counts. One, I said I was giving the single most important thing - which is what you asked for. Of course there's other things that can be done. Two, you're mixing up supporting a club and getting involved with a club.

[dahamsta]

Soccer Mom, one more time: http://foot.ie/threads/132005-What-Role-Does-the-League-of-Ireland-Play-in-Irish-Football?p=1324982&viewfull=1#post1324982

I'm not merging any more of your posts, I'll be deleting from this point forward.

[Soccer Mom]

Sorry to wade in but what defines "interested in football" ? wearing a man u/ liverpool/Arsneal top down the pub ? Watching your offspring play schoolboy football ? Kicking ten shades out of someone from different town/county/part of city ? Supporting your local club through thick and (mainly) thin ?

Delighted to have you wade in :) I'll try to put this as delicately as I can - I get the sense from many contributers here that if you don't go to LoI matches then you can't be a real Irish football fan. It comes across to me as a type of intolerance and - to be frank - snobbishness. People that go to international matches have an interest in football. People that watch English football on TV have an interest in football. The fact that I will be up at 9am on Sunday putting up nets with my fingers freezing to the bone for my sons schoolboy match displays an interest in football. It's a broad church so let's be inclusive and tolerant.


Many of what you may class as "having an interest in football" will never take an interest in the LOI because the interest is too narrow based. Many more are social fans (something to talk about over a pint). Personally I know fans who go to most Ireland away games but don't go to the home matches - hardly likely to go to LOI games anytime soon.

Sometimes it's easier to get tickets for away matches and in my experience the atmosphere can be better for away matches.


The people who get involved in thier local clubs as PS has indicated are people I would see as "interested in football" and unfortunately there are far too few of them. Clubs have made progress in broadening the appeal of the LOI but in my opinion the potential market is not as great as people sometimes think.

I agree with you that progress is being made - Shamrock Rovers is a case in point. My son is an ardent Manchester United fan but I've taken him to Tallaght Stadium a few times and he is now a Rovers fan with a 2010 season ticket. He goes to matches now with his mates - so that IS progress. However I do agree that the Irish market is limited and that puts a limit on what can be achieved - but I still think the the principals in the sport can do more to generate greater interest.

[Soccer Mom]

Soccer Mom, one more time: http://foot.ie/threads/132005-What-Role-Does-the-League-of-Ireland-Play-in-Irish-Football?p=1324982&viewfull=1#post1324982

I'm not merging any more of your posts, I'll be deleting from this point forward.

Apologies but I don't understand what you're asking me to do. Can you please explain?

[OneForTheFuture]

Well there is no question that the quality of football is higher but the best players in the world will always gravitate to where the money is. People are suckers for hype and gloss. The majority of people that travel over have grown up thinking of UK teams as 'their team'. The mindset is now deeply ingrained and that's why I don't agree with pineapple stu that it's simply up to people to decide to support LoI clubs. They won't because they don't feel any affinity for them. For a whole variety of reasons generations of fans in Ireland now have a blind spot for the LoI. That's the fact and wishing that it wasn't won't change anything. It's going to take concerted action by those that are committed to the League to undo the current mindset.

I take that point, as long as you are refferring to Frank and Irene.

[passinginterest]

Apologies but I don't understand what you're asking me to do. Can you please explain?

The button at the bottom right beside the "reply with quote" button is the multi quote button, if you click this on each post you wish to reply to then go to post your reply it should incorporate all of those posts, rather than making an individual reply to each.

[marinobohs]

Delighted to have you wade in :) I'll try to put this as delicately as I can - I get the sense from many contributers here that if you don't go to LoI matches then you can't be a real Irish football fan. It comes across to me as a type of intolerance and - to be frank - snobbishness. People that go to international matches have an interest in football. People that watch English football on TV have an interest in football. The fact that I will be up at 9am on Sunday putting up nets with my fingers freezing to the bone for my sons schoolboy match displays an interest in football. It's a broad church so let's be inclusive and tolerant.

I was not trying to be intolerent/snobbish or exclude anyone (quite the opposite) I was simply making the point that someone "having an interest" is a very broad church and need not indicate any predisposition to ever attending LOI games irrespective of what is done. i would argue that sitting in a pub with a replica jersey constitutes an interest in anything other than socialising/drink



Sometimes it's easier to get tickets for away matches and in my experience the atmosphere can be better for away matches.

usually easier to get tickets for home games (especially since Croker) but that is not and never was a factor with anyone I know, much more the social side of the "trip".



I agree with you that progress is being made - Shamrock Rovers is a case in point. My son is an ardent Manchester United fan but I've taken him to Tallaght Stadium a few times and he is now a Rovers fan with a 2010 season ticket. He goes to matches now with his mates - so that IS progress. However I do agree that the Irish market is limited and that puts a limit on what can be achieved - but I still think the the principals in the sport can do more to generate greater interest.

Man ure and now Shams ? somebody call the ISPCC :D seriously , some great work done over the last couple of years in Tallaght (even before they moved out there) and among other clubs as well. it is people like yourself developing an interest in LOI among younger people that is the greatest hope (although it is a slow process). Speak to most regular fans and they will talk of going as "a young fellow" and becoming "hooked"on the LOI.
Again nobody would argue that greater promotion of the LOI is a way forward but with limited resources it is less than apparent how to make that a reality. the genesis report was big on aspiration (some good a lot bad) but not great on the practicalities
my own view would be that the LOI cannot cmplete with the EPL and should be marketed as complimentary ( have your fave EPL team AND your LOI team ) I agree that asking people to choose is not helpful to the LOI (although it is beyond doubt that LOI fans are better :D)

[Soccer Mom]

The button at the bottom right beside the "reply with quote" button is the multi quote button, if you click this on each post you wish to reply to then go to post your reply it should incorporate all of those posts, rather than making an individual reply to each.

Thanks for the help passinginterest. Obviously I'm not too good with computers :)


my own view would be that the LOI cannot cmplete with the EPL and should be marketed as complimentary ( have your fave EPL team AND your LOI team ) I agree that asking people to choose is not helpful to the LOI

I couldn't agree more. Try to compete head to head is not on. Many football supporters go to GAA matches and rugby matches. There is absolutely no reason why people can't have an interest in different areas of football. Others have made the point here that one doesn't have to exclude the other and if people can afford to go to Old Trafford for a match then a season ticket for Rovers or whoever is not beyond reason.


[B][I](although it is beyond doubt that LOI fans are better :D)

Well in term of commitment to the cause and pure passion that would be hard to disagree with :)

[osarusan]

The general attitude in this country of "I'd support the LoI if it were better and if a club got into the group stages of the CL" is one of the main things holding the league back.
This is true, but I think the point being made is that for the LOI to improve, the onus is on LOI clubs to make themselves attractive to those who are not currently attracted to it.

It is easy, and to a certain extent correct, to say that it is just as much their (the uninterested people's) fault the LOI is the way it is as it is the LOI's fault, but the fact remains that for us to improve, we need them, in a way they do not need us. We can criticize them for not wanting to come along to games until the clubs reach a certain level of success, and we'd have a valid reason to criticize, but that valid reason doesn't bring any money into the club.

[pineapple stu]

I still think what I posted is the single most important thing that needs to be done. There are other factors too, of course, including what you posted.

[danthesaint]

http://foot.ie/../../images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by pineapple stu http://foot.ie/../../images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/../../showthread.php?p=1325242#post1325242)
The general attitude in this country of "I'd support the LoI if it were better and if a club got into the group stages of the CL" is one of the main things holding the league back.


that will be unlikely to happen, with uefa
id love to see the day, england spain and italy and maybe germany get less teams to go to champions league and an irish team gets in automatically, then these big clubs in england mightnt have the same appeal to barstoolers.

soccer mom, does you kid(s) go to LOI matches??

[marinobohs]

This is true, but I think the point being made is that for the LOI to improve, the onus is on LOI clubs to make themselves attractive to those who are not currently attracted to it.

It is easy, and to a certain extent correct, to say that it is just as much their (the uninterested people's) fault the LOI is the way it is as it is the LOI's fault, but the fact remains that for us to improve, we need them, in a way they do not need us. We can criticize them for not wanting to come along to games until the clubs reach a certain level of success, and we'd have a valid reason to criticize, but that valid reason doesn't bring any money into the club.

Again, nobody argues that the LOI has to improve its image/profile what we need to look at is HOW we do that. Many clubs have tried initiatives around pricing and/or special offers (kids go free, two games for price of one, Ireland ticket access etc) many clubs have had promotional campaigns and many other ideas.
What I have never been clear on (and I think many clubs fall into this trap) is who are we targeting ? Euro success (on previous experience) gets one off crowds but has rarely had "stickibility" (Shels V Depo ) therefore trying that route is not the answer in my opinion. Building community links (especially at a time of more transient population) is slow burning at best (not to mention the competition from the bogball etc).
Promotion of LOI will never compete with the unlimited bankroll of EPL and the ever present shadow of SKY Sports.

Unfortunately I can see no "magic bullet" solution to the problem of limited attendance. Hard slog and a gradual targeted build up (among fans with a genuine interest in watching live football) is the only option I can see for the League of Ireland, the national team could do more (antyhing would be a start) to promote the game here but that does not appear to be on the FAI agenda.

The most promising thing is that we have a good product to sell (all the major intellects on here could not possibly be wrong :D) - and it is guaranteed Irish !

[osarusan]

Unfortunately I can see no "magic bullet" solution to the problem of limited attendance.
What!! You mean these internet discussions won't solve our problems?

[Soccer Mom]

This is true, but I think the point being made is that for the LOI to improve, the onus is on LOI clubs to make themselves attractive to those who are not currently attracted to it.

It is easy, and to a certain extent correct, to say that it is just as much their (the uninterested people's) fault the LOI is the way it is as it is the LOI's fault, but the fact remains that for us to improve, we need them, in a way they do not need us. We can criticize them for not wanting to come along to games until the clubs reach a certain level of success, and we'd have a valid reason to criticize, but that valid reason doesn't bring any money into the club.

Precisely the point I was trying to make. Thank you.


I still think what I posted is the single most important thing that needs to be done. There are other factors too, of course, including what you posted.

On one hand I can't deny that if more people "Get involved with your local club" then that helps to solve the attendance issue but people are not doing it. We can engage in all the wishful thinking in the world but that changes nothing.



soccer mom, does you kid(s) go to LOI matches??
My eldest son has no interest in sport whatsoever. Part of my youngest sons' Christmas present was a 2010 season ticket for Shamrock Rovers. I brought him to Tallaght Stadium a couple of times last year and he must have gotten the bug because he asked for the season ticket. I didn't foist it on him. BTW I changed milkman between the birth of my two boys. The first one had no interest in any chit chat about football.


Again, nobody argues that the LOI has to improve its image/profile what we need to look at is HOW we do that. Many clubs have tried initiatives around pricing and/or special offers (kids go free, two games for price of one, Ireland ticket access etc) many clubs have had promotional campaigns and many other ideas.
Building community links (especially at a time of more transient population) is slow burning at best (not to mention the competition from the bogball etc).
Promotion of LOI will never compete with the unlimited bankroll of EPL and the ever present shadow of SKY Sports.

Unfortunately I can see no "magic bullet" solution to the problem of limited attendance. Hard slog and a gradual targeted build up (among fans with a genuine interest in watching live football) is the only option I can see for the League of Ireland, the national team could do more (antyhing would be a start) to promote the game here but that does not appear to be on the FAI agenda.

The most promising thing is that we have a good product to sell (all the major intellects on here could not possibly be wrong :D) - and it is guaranteed Irish !

You're absolutely right that there is no magic bullet and that there is a need for a multi-faceted approach. In terms of building long term and loyal support I think the clubs have got to get into the schools and the schoolboys clubs. The FAI should take a overarching role and help facilitate the clubs with the organisation of this. This shouldn't cost that much especially if it was stitched into the players contracts that he had to spend x amount of time in visiting schools and clubs. Maybe also give heavily discounted tickets to kids to get them in the gate to experience the match-day experience. I agree that this will be a slow burn but if the League had begun a sustained outreach program twenty years ago those kids might very well be bringing their own kids to LoI matches today.

Playing the "Guaranteed Irish" card has merit also and recruiting Irish international (especially the likes of Kevin Doyle & Fahy) players in promoting the LoI. The FAI should take a lead role in all this.

Does the Foot.ie have a real world presence? I get the sense that there is the potential of a strong lobby group here that could meet with the Head of League Marketing (Noel Mooney) to see what his plans are and maybe have an input?

[Acornvilla]

foot.ie will set up their own football club in my back garden and ourselves and foras can break away and make an irish premierleague like in england?

thatl get the barstoolers in the gates


no?..

[dong]

Precisely the point I was trying to make. Thank you.





In terms of building long term and loyal support I think the clubs have got to get into the schools and the schoolboys clubs. The FAI should take a overarching role and help facilitate the clubs with the organisation of this. This shouldn't cost that much especially if it was stitched into the players contracts that he had to spend x amount of time in visiting schools and clubs. Maybe also give heavily discounted tickets to kids to get them in the gate to experience the match-day experience. I agree that this will be a slow burn but if the League had begun a sustained outreach program twenty years ago those kids might very well be bringing their own kids to LoI matches today.



This is already happening.

[bennocelt]

Thanks for that. I think that's coming at it from the wrong end. Someone will only get involved with their local club if they are already one of the converted. One of the problems for the League is that most people don't feel a connection to any club. Therefore it is up to the FAI / LoI /clubs to reach out to the public and make that connection.


Delighted to have you wade in :) I'll try to put this as delicately as I can - I get the sense from many contributers here that if you don't go to LoI matches then you can't be a real Irish football fan. It comes across to me as a type of intolerance and - to be frank - snobbishness. People that go to international matches have an interest in football. People that watch English football on TV have an interest in football. The fact that I will be up at 9am on Sunday putting up nets with my fingers freezing to the bone for my sons schoolboy match displays an interest in football. It's a broad church so let's be inclusive and tolerant.

.


The only connection one needs is a love of football, live football. Get off the sofa and head to the nearest LOI match - simple as
If Irish people can support muck like the Gah then surely they can support football in this country - no excuses

And I am sorry but you surely cant compare fellas watching Sky Sports to people experiencing real live games in the LOI - one is to be entertained the other is there for the love of the game and their team.

[SkStu]

well said bennocelt.

[de bowez]

On one hand I can't deny that if more people "Get involved with your local club" then that helps to solve the attendance issue but people are not doing it. We can engage in all the wishful thinking in the world but that changes nothing.


You're absolutely right that there is no magic bullet and that there is a need for a multi-faceted approach. In terms of building long term and loyal support I think the clubs have got to get into the schools and the schoolboys clubs. The FAI should take a overarching role and help facilitate the clubs with the organisation of this. This shouldn't cost that much especially if it was stitched into the players contracts that he had to spend x amount of time in visiting schools and clubs. Maybe also give heavily discounted tickets to kids to get them in the gate to experience the match-day experience. I agree that this will be a slow burn but if the League had begun a sustained outreach program twenty years ago those kids might very well be bringing their own kids to LoI matches today.

Playing the "Guaranteed Irish" card has merit also and recruiting Irish international (especially the likes of Kevin Doyle & Fahy) players in promoting the LoI. The FAI should take a lead role in all this.


The guaranteed Irish thing only gets premiership tv watchers backs up as they feel that we are questioning their patriotism or whatever.

The rest of the stuff is being done by the majority of clubs. Bohs have sent players to schools and have a big schoolboy section using DCUs world class facilities. Kids go free, junior gypsies programmes all done.