Are we really that bad?

[Titan]

So I've been thinking. Dangerous I know but maybe that's what unemployment does to you!

Is our league as bad as we think in terms of finance?

Portsmouth (yes of the premiership, the be all and end all premiership) have debts of £70m ( allegedly) and could go bang any minute.

Crystal palace have just gone into administration (again) and further down the pyramid clubs like southampton and chester have had points deductions for poor fiscal management.

In scotland rangers and celtic are up to their eyebrows in debt and I'm sure if we delved deeper into the finances of similar (to our clubs sizes) clubs in europe we may find similar problems?

I'm not suggesting for one minute that things are ok in the loi financially speaking. I was with a club who went out of business in farcical circumstances last year and haven't found a new club yet ( but that's probably just me!) so I know first hand how bad things are and I'm not saying that just because everyone else is in s***e too that its ok for us to be in trouble but what I am saying is that maybe its not just us and maybe things aren't as bad as we think?
What do you think?

[weecountyman]

The LOI is in the same boat as many leagues in the World. Clubs in the K-league are releasing players due to financial difficulties, the British leagues have clubs in serious trouble (I know I've read it on this site on the feed thread regarding the total debts of the EPL). The LOI is ours, so we look at it more, and it's good that we do instead of deflecting. We could easily look at one of the richer leagues in Europe - the Russian Premier - one club is already gone FC Moscow. Their backer pulled out and the club folded. 3 other clubs - Spartak Nalchik, Krylia Sovetov and Amkar Perm are all struggling, while 2 clubs Sibir and Tom both barely made it through last season. The division below saw teams fold mid-season the last 2 years and yet the top clubs are still paying players excessive wages.

But again that's just deflecting - "at least we're not as bad as......" The LOI is in trouble but it won't take a massive amount to fix it.

[paudie]

Mouscron went bust half way through the Belgian first division this season as well

[weecountyman]

I forgot that Paudie, thanks! There are rumours that Manchester City are going to buy them, primarily as a "parking" club for African players. This was something that seemed to have hit Mouscron, they were funnelling young players through their academy in Africa but they were losing money for 4-5 years. It's a little sad as they were lauded as a well run little side.

This website is pretty illuminating.
www.clubsincrisis.com (http://www.clubsincrisis.com) - it's out of date but a trend can be seen developing from the early 2000's.

http://news.therecord.com/Sports/article/599293

[culloty82]

Last year Valencia nearly went bust with €500m worth of debts and only the election of a new chairman allowed them to refinance, also Gretna, Fiorentina , Napoli in recent times.

[Acornvilla]

in england lower down aswell the likes of hornchurch and telford have gone bust in the last decade with plenty of other clubs going very close to the same fate

[Titan]

So its football in general that's in trouble. So when we get through this latest spate of nonsense we'll be in a position to show the rest of europe how to run a successful league through prudent financial planning.


Or maybe we'll learn nothing and have no pro/semi pro football at all.

[Dodge]

The main difference between ours and other leagues is that they're in financial trouble despite having decent income streams

We're in trouble because we've no income streams

While weecounty has a point about "us" analysing "our league". The difference between how the British Media treat their clubs' trouble and how Irish hacks jump up and down at the thought of an Irish club crumbling is fairly stark

[Fr Damo]

I think the media jump up an down because of the in consistancies in punnishment / Allowances / blind eyes.

[osarusan]

The LOI is in trouble but it won't take a massive amount to fix it.
But the term 'massive amount' is determined by the amount of income any club has.

Limerick nearly went to the wall last year over a shortfall of 70,000 euros. That is, for most clubs in european leagues, a pittance (and maybe even for a few in the LOI). But when you are getting 500 or so at a game, 70,000 euros was something we just couldn't find. It was, for us, a 'massive amount.'

The fact that clubs in the LOI are in serious trouble over figures of a few hundred thousand euros (or less) should tell you just how scarce money is out there.

[Sam_Heggy]

But the term 'massive amount' is determined to the amount of income any club has.

Limerick nearly went to the wall last year over a shortfall of 70,000 euros. That is, for most clubs in European leagues, a pittance (and maybe even for a few in the LOI). But when you are getting 500 or so at a game, 70,000 euros was something we just couldn't find. It was, for us, a 'massive amount.'

The fact that clubs in the LOI are in serious trouble over figures of a few hundred thousand euros (or less) should tell you just how scarce money is out there.

Try losing nearly €200k in one season and surviving. It will take us a hell of a long time to pull out of this one.

I know comparing LOI to other European Leagues does show that money is "mismanaged" in at almost every club BUT, as Dodge points out, in England for example, Soccer is the number 1 sport and really unrivaled therefore people row in behind it. Here, people can't wait to kick the LOI clubs when they're down.
I wouldn't say all the media are "hacks" but a fair few love to write about the controversy in LOI and point out how great the GAA is, even though it's an even more twisted, bitter and corrupt organisation than Soccer ever will be.

[Dodge]

I think the media jump up an down because of the in consistancies in punnishment / Allowances / blind eyes.

Thats rubbish. They've been jumping up and down for years, long before licensing or anythign like that.

OH and to clarify, not every journalist here is a hack, and indeed some who report on the league try accentuate the positive. Most are hacks though

[stamullendrog]

But the term 'massive amount' is determined by the amount of income any club has.

Limerick nearly went to the wall last year over a shortfall of 70,000 euros. That is, for most clubs in european leagues, a pittance (and maybe even for a few in the LOI). But when you are getting 500 or so at a game, 70,000 euros was something we just couldn't find. It was, for us, a 'massive amount.'

The fact that clubs in the LOI are in serious trouble over figures of a few hundred thousand euros (or less) should tell you just how scarce money is out there.

your right sure 70000 is a weeks wages to some players in other leagues.the problem now is moneys tight and sponsoring a team for a business is well down a list of things to do and im sure going to games has slipped down the list for fans.i know personally speaking i pick and choose my games as going every week is a bit of a stretch.any club that gets through the crunch should be better for it though

[weecountyman]

The main difference between ours and other leagues is that they're in financial trouble despite having decent income streams

We're in trouble because we've no income streams

While weecounty has a point about "us" analysing "our league". The difference between how the British Media treat their clubs' trouble and how Irish hacks jump up and down at the thought of an Irish club crumbling is fairly stark

Agreed, and as you point out, it's not that our journos are all hacks, it just sells and leads - we're on a bad news kick in Ireland so why not.

Osarusan, can I please point out that not all uses of the word "amount" is related to money. In fact a massive sum of money would mean nothing to most clubs, as a case of financial diarrhoea would erupt and the club would be bankrupt even faster. No matter what measures are brought in, from salary caps to FAI appointed monitors to turning all the leagues amateur, some local in need of an ego boost will start shovelling out cash under the table to bring in the best players and suddenly we're back in the merde.

There is a way for the LOI to work, but it would mean everyone rowing in behind it, which is an anatema in Ireland!