Call for Head Shops to be banned

[jebus]

Same family that petitioned to have magic mushrooms banned are now calling for all head shops to be banned.

Here's what is spurring them on

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-tragedy-led-family-to-crusade-for-ban-on-magic-mushrooms-126322.html

Basically their 33 year old son/brother/husband bought some mushrooms from a head store, took them and died. Of course all he was after was a bit of fun, didn't know the dangers involved, straight A student liked by all, etc etc, the usual guff from a family that don't want to admit that their son/brother/partner willfully went out, bought drugs, didn't do any research into the effects of them and was unlucky enough to die.

Now they want all head shops closed because without them their son would still be alive apparently. Now I don't buy anything from head shops but this strikes me of more nanny state nonsense where people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and instead look for something/one to blame. I've taken drugs up until very recently and know that the information is readily available about any substance you may consume (Google is what it's called) and am strongly against these people and their call for head shop closures. That said I was wondering what the overall view on this and head shops in general is?

[dahamsta]

This is just the usual bandwagon-jumping moron Mail/Star/Sun readers going out of their way looking for something to be offended about. The mainstream media are giving it credibility though, which ticks me off the most. I heard some Minister actually sounding quite credible on telly yesterday, telling some dummy of an interviewer that there are rules and procedures for dealing with making drugs illegal - which is true, and very important - yet she continued to rant about about doing something now, this very minute, as if half the population was going to keel over and die from their own stupidity any second. Which might not be such a bad thing...

[jebus]

I think what riles me up the most about all of it in the media is the same thing that got me going about Katy French dying. Where they say it's all the big, bad drugs fault, and French or this guy dying from ingesting them was somehow a tragedy that they couldn't have avoided. The sheer lack of personal accountability in this country never ceases to amaze me.

I can't remember which comedian said it but it was basically that his sympathy for people who die from heroin addiction dwindles each year because by now you'd think they'd have heard it might be bad for you and you shouldn't take it. It's the same principle here. This guy's family make out as if he heard these hallucinogenic drugs might good for a bit of a laugh (said in the same way you would if you were talking about something like bowling), and sure how was he to know they might not agree with him? My attitude has always been that if you take something and you die then tough, sorry but it's your fault, you took a chance and it backfired. I remember hearing a news report about some 19 year old who died in a car accident after having a good few beers and people were talking like it was some unavoidable tragic accident. Jesus it really annoys me.

Anyway I would say that I doubt they will be able to ban everything that is sold in head shops but then again we're talking about a government that thinks the best way to solve Ireland's drinking problem is to get off licences to shut at 10pm :rolleyes:

[dahamsta]

Couldn't agree with you more about personal responsibility. Sure we see it here every day with the clueless morons that post libellous comments about people, working under some bizarre delusion that the magical internet is going to protect their identity.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Just posting in agreement with what has been posted so far. The cowardice of certain people, and the support the media give to such b-s, is sickening.

[thischarmingman]

...son/brother/partner willfully went out, bought drugs, didn't do any research into the effects of them and was unlucky enough to die.

Now they want all head shops closed because without them their son would still be alive apparently. Now I don't buy anything from head shops but this strikes me of more nanny state nonsense where people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and instead look for something/one to blame...the information is readily available about any substance you may consume (Google is what it's called) and am strongly against these people and their call for head shop closures.


The sheer lack of personal accountability in this country never ceases to amaze me.

I can't remember which comedian said it but it was basically that his sympathy for people who die from heroin addiction dwindles each year because by now you'd think they'd have heard it might be bad for you and you shouldn't take it. It's the same principle here...My attitude has always been that if you take something and you die then tough, sorry but it's your fault, you took a chance and it backfired...then again we're talking about a government that thinks the best way to solve Ireland's drinking problem is to get off licences to shut at 10pm :rolleyes:

As above, I couldn't agree more with everything said so far. The last of personal responsibility is a social problem across the globe. The idea that people should take responsibility for their actions is one that is sadly all too rare these days.

[Macy]

Liveline's been doing it the last couple of weeks - hence the politicians trying to get in on the action. :rolleyes:

imo it just strengthens the argument to legalise and regulate currently illegal drugs. As well as taking criminals out of the equation, you now get to close down these "evil" head shops. Prohibition doesn't work, but rather than accept this and move on, "society" tries to clamp down even more. Would these kids be interested in getting bath salts if they could buy good quality, totally natural, weed legally?

[John83]

Couldn't agree with you more about personal responsibility. Sure we see it here every day with the clueless morons that post libellous comments about people, working under some bizarre delusion that the magical internet is going to protect their identity.
You mean Dahamsta isn't a drug dealing transvestite who will sell your IP address to anyone with the price of a pint? I've got to stop reading the Bohs fans' posts.

A bit more seriously, I agree that it's often ridiculous how the completely avoidable death of some twonk who did something risky for the hell of it is treated as a terrible tragedy. It's natural that grieving family and friends would paint it up that way - it's not easy to accept that your daughter got herself killed, nor is it fair to tell a mother that. It's not natural that the papers join in on the little collective hallucination. But, hey, people lap it up, so the papers will keep running with it.

The head shop thing is just this week's news. They're a complete non-runner. Ban items if you like, but if a few people want to get high, they'll find a way. Paint thinners, glue, that blue stuff under the sink. You can't ban everything. And by trying, you force these people to consider far stupider stuff. Like Macy says, if weed was legal, would this be a problem?

[passinginterest]

Happened to catch a minute or two of Adrian Kennedy last night and they were talking about it, someone text in to say "ban all things that can make you high", right so, no petrol, markers, tippex, deodrant, alcohol etc. etc. it really does make you wonder what goes on in some people's heads. People will get high on something if they want to get high.

[joeSoap]

Why is it called a 'Head Shop'??:confused:

[brendy_éire]

Shooting in Derry last night regarding this. Owners of head shops in Derry had been warned by RAAD (Republic Action Against Drugs) to stop selling legal highs.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0128/derry.html

Fairly pointless targetting shops, IMO. I'd hazard a guess that most legal highs are sold online anyway.

[jebus]

Why is it called a 'Head Shop'??:confused:

I actually don't know

Anyone?

[superfrank]

I imagine because some of the stuff you can get there messes with your head.

Acornvilla said he works in one, he'll be able to explain.

[dahamsta]

You mean Dahamsta isn't a drug dealing transvestite who will sell your IP address to anyone with the price of a pint? I've got to stop reading the Bohs fans' posts. Oops, all my sekrits are out!

[briancool21]

Yeah it's a load of horse **** to be fair have any of these people giving out about these things actually tried them? sure it would funny to see joe duff buzzing of his head he'd have a great laugh, Isn't it better though for people to get something in a head shop rather than to buy someone's dodgy e's that you probaly will die from taking. i've done both and i feel alot safer taking the ones from the headshops i wouldn't touch an e now though

[kingdom hoop]

Overall, I'd like to know what the purpose of any ban is. What is the ideal we're striving for? Is it the complete eradication of drug-use? Or will any shut-down be merely for political appearances? My fear is that any intervention will be poorly thought-through, akin to scratching your slightly bothersome ear-itch while blood spurts from the gaping stab wound in your torso.

We know the "Ban Anything That Gets You High Act" is impossible (a girl died in Tralee during the year from deodorant inhalation). It's also practically impossible to constantly update the law to ban all new substances (the producers can tweak ingredients), so the reasonable thing to do is shut all of the shops down to prevent the availability of all these nasty things. Right? Well, maybe - provided there were no other sources. But there are; so what good would closing head-shops do? Will people suddenly not have the urge to have a laugh? Or, more likely, will they just find alternative products and suppliers just like anyone in the market for a good?

In the scheme of things, head shops aren't really that bad: a bit of employment when it's scarce, some tax for the country. Better than feeding gangs.

One guy dies and mushrooms get banned and there are calls to close shops. It was announced today that there were 22 gangland murders last year. What action will ensue?



A final issue to consider is the practicality of any proposed ban. For example, how do you define a head-shop? Surely it is just the products you focus on; in which case can we be assured no alternative products will emerge, or do you end up chasing your tail?

To be fair, if some drugs are illegal and the things sold in these shops are of similar character, then it's very inconsistent to allow some and not allow others. What sense does that make? Kinda shows the hopelessness of trying to legislate here I think.

Now, back to my first question. As a society, what do we want? What is our goal in this War?

[twoenz]

Shooting in Derry last night regarding this. Owners of head shops in Derry had been warned by RAAD (Republic Action Against Drugs) to stop selling legal highs.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0128/derry.html

Fairly pointless targetting shops, IMO. I'd hazard a guess that most legal highs are sold online anyway.



By the looks of things this was simply the RAAD protecting their own street operations.

[brendy_éire]

By the looks of things this was simply the RAAD protecting their own street operations.

So some say, not sure meself. Regardless, they've actually made a fairly noticable difference to the availability of all 'highs'.

[Mr A]

Alcohol causes many deaths every year. Are the government going to move to ban pubs and off licenses?

Legalise it all to feck so it can be regulated and taxed.

[thischarmingman]

Alcohol causes many deaths every year. Are the government going to move to ban pubs and off licenses?
.
True, as do cars. Ban them too. Religion can go the same way.

[briancool21]

on the subject actually went into one today and got me self some still legal highs after doing some research last night on the net. Got things called e-bombs gonna take them tomorrow after work fun times. Interesting side note though it says on the back of them plant food not for consumption by humans find that odd and amusing. are they labeled like that to make them legal or what?

[jebus]

Yep it covers them becasue they have told you you shouldn't consume it

Friend last weekend had some legal form of cocaine, I can confirm from talking to her that it seems to have all the highs with the exact same level of nonsense spewed

[briancool21]

What was the name of it do you know wouldn't mind trying that although i took proper coke like 1once or twice but didn't really get anything off it just helped me drink more if i'm honest so i thought it was a waste of money. the things i got today are called E bombs i'll let ye all know how i get on with um haha

[Boo_Boy]

I wouldn't touch pills or powder ever. But the Kali Mist ripoff isn't bad.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Is this 21st century Ireland? Yes, yes it is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0213/1224264353101.html

[Acornvilla]

pretty much its a ''head shop'' because you buy things for your head i know i could have mads that sound a lot smarter.. anyway if they close the place i drop out of college so not really one for letting that happen. the amount of dirty looks i get here every day and people coming in gloating that were going to be closed down. the other lad that works here was told he was going to hell. but the same people that give out are the same people that are going to the pub and getting p!sseed or smoking fags around their children doing things that cause much bigger problems in the world but get on their high horse over this.. really p!sses me off

[Schumi]

Is this 21st century Ireland? Yes, yes it is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0213/1224264353101.html

I wouldn't be surprised if this was down to some of their more organised competition.

[superfrank]

Others are suggesting it's an insurance scam.

[Acornvilla]

doubt it he wouldnt need the money that badly believe me

[KianD]

Are Bray still sponsored by one? Seem to remember there being ad boards / programme ads last time I was in the Carlisle...

[Stevo Da Gull]

I missed last season so myself so I'm not sure. But it does explain the poor attendances, must have been some sort of boycott/protest.. can't think of any other reason the usuall thousands would stay away :confused:

If it was some of the 'more organised' competition who are responsible, obviously you'd expect thuggery from such people and hopefully the gardai would have a suspect.

[dahamsta]

doubt it he wouldnt need the money that badly believe me

Why would we? If you have a claim to make, make it, otherwise your contribution is worthless. Same goes for Schumi and superfrank's posts, which I'm frankly surprised with. Talk about idle speculation like, I might as well be reading the Star. :rolleyes:

[superfrank]

Are Bray still sponsored by one? Seem to remember there being ad boards / programme ads last time I was in the Carlisle...
Yeah, Nirvana take out an ad in the programme every week.

[Acornvilla]

ok well adam the shop will have a very large income so in the long run the owner of the shop would be very stupid to distroy his own shop to make a short term gain thru insurance fraud and also the risk he would be taking in doing so.. so i was infact rubishing the idea that the owner would do such a thing..

[dahamsta]

Define "large". There's an awful lot of misinformation going around about these shops.

[Acornvilla]

from experience and talking to other shop owners a shop of that size and its locality would be bringing in well over 2,000 could be over 3,000 weekends and anywhere between 500-1,000 other days. (im not saying profit) as i dont work in that shop or know the man i couldnt say for sure but if anything i'd say the shop brings in more.. thats the best i can do for you sir i'm not going to start saying exactly what the shops bring in as its not really my place to say but there are some ball park figures for you..

anyway i cant see why someone who is making lets say a ''healthy'' profit would feel the urge to destroy his own shop regardles of the possibly insurance money he could get.. stupid risk

[superfrank]

anyway i cant see why someone who is making lets say a ''healthy'' profit would feel the urge to destroy his own shop regardles of the possibly insurance money he could get.. stupid risk
The fact that his industry is under threat would be a big one. These guys are getting an awful lot of bad press and the Government will probably bring in legislation as a knee-jerk response to keep the whingers happy.

[Acornvilla]

The fact that his industry is under threat would be a big one. These guys are getting an awful lot of bad press and the Government will probably bring in legislation as a knee-jerk response to keep the whingers happy.


hope they dont :)

[the 12 th man]

I guess this rules out a fire scam by the owner,500K found in safe.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/firefighters-find-8364500000-in-head-shop-safe-2062798.html

[thischarmingman]

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/RAAD-respond-to-Red-Star.6034756.jp


Republican Action Against Drugs (RAAD) has responded to criticism of its decision to shoot a local businessman selling "legal highs" from his city centre shop.

Raymond Coyle (52) was shot three times in the legs inside his shop, Red Star, at Waterloo Street on Wednesday last.

[Acornvilla]

show apparently unbiased about head shops now on RTE

[the 12 th man]

Head shops are about to go according to todays Times,Government/Gardai will enforce the 1971 United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances whose wording potentially includes almost any concievable mind altering substance,to define a legal high.It will make it a criminal offence to sell any substance that is mind altering- I was wondering where does this leave pubs?

[Acornvilla]

Head shops are about to go according to todays Times,Gardai will enforce the 1971 United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances whose wording potentially includes almost any concievable mind altering substance,to define a legal high.It will make it a criminal offence to sell any substance that is mind altering- I was wondering where does this leave pubs?

and the makers of lynx and markers and zippo

[thischarmingman]

Government/Gardai will enforce the 1971 United Nations Convention on Psychotropic Substances whose wording potentially includes almost any concievable mind altering substance,to define a legal high.It will make it a criminal offence to sell any substance that is mind altering...

There go the brownies at the FAI's next LOI Initiatives meeting.

[Acornvilla]

There go the brownies at the FAI's next LOI Initiatives meeting.

and my job!!

[Docboy]

With everyone ruuning straight back to the dealers to get what they want. Hilarious that the demand aspect has been completely over looked by the naysayers. Pretty disturbing also that all the attacks seem to be ignored by the Gardai, vigilantism rules.

[Riddickcule]

We're getting a head shop talk in school soon, i can't wait to hear the 50-something garda rampling on about his conservative wet dreams.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Sure, when the Head Shops are closed we can all go for a pint and a cigarette to celebrate.

[Macy]

I believe Harney has announced a new list of banned substances, skipping the consultation. So the kids are saved, now they're illegal people won't take mind altering substances...

[Mr A]

Drug dealers all over the country will be celebrating as we speak.