Rugby Union 2010

[joeSoap]

May as well start it...

Big weekend in the Heineken. Leinsters job has been made a formality by London Irish's collapse last week. Ulster need a miracle to top the group but might sneak a best runners up spot if they get a try bonus win, and Munster still have it all to do, but with the form they are currently in, then they should be good enough to see off Northampton. Great to see Marcus Horan back in a matchday squad. Connacht will secure a home quarter final when they beat Madrid, so all good in the hood so far.

[endabob1]

What happens if Leinster lose & Irish get the bonus point, ie they're tied on 20 points, how are they seperated, points difference or results against each other?
Northampton are in good form at the moment too, used to live there and it's a proper rugby town, it won't be easy although Munster should progress.
Ulster are out I think, it's been a much better showing from them this season but Stade are highly unliekly to drop points at this stage and there are too many teams with the chance to get 18 points or above & a bonus win in Bath is not going to be easy.
Good news for Connacht who have done well in this competition which I think will be more interesting with the HC runners up dropping in (which may well include Ulster) for the first time, but it makes winning it a lot harder.

[Real ale Madrid]

If Leinster fail to get anything and Irish get a bonus point then Leinster are relegated to 2nd in the pool - thier 20 points will be good enough to get into the quarter finals I think, barring a strange run of results, which would include Munster losing Friday night. They will be separated by points scored against each other in group games which would read Irish 9 Leinster 1.

Strong Possibility of a Connacht v Ulster Amlin Cup Quarter Final in the showgrounds if both sides win this weekend and Ulster miss out on HC Q'Final.

[Leeside Swagger]

Handicap of +10 for Munster, get the house on lads.

[dantheman]

With Wasps losing last night, a win for Connacht would guarantee a very winnable home draw against the weakest Challenge Cup group winner. So there's a good chance of both Ulster and Connacht in the semifinals of this competition, with leinster and munster getting into the semi finals of the big one.

Hopefully Ulster could join them but the loss in Edinburgh messed that one up for us I fear!

[Aberdonian Stu]

The weakest group winner could be Wasps though depending on how the weekend goes which wouldn't be ideal.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ulster out of Europe.

Leinster draw Clermont in Dublin, Munster draw Northampton (again!) in Thomond and both will face an away semi if they progress.

[Schumi]

Connacht at home to Bourgoin in the Challenge Cup as well.

[OneRedArmy]

Interesting weekend.

Rugby doesn't come much worse than Friday nights borefest in Thomond. Very few came out of it with any credit, but ROG and Quinlan were the standouts for me. Been pointed out a lot in the media, but O'Connell seems to be getting very mouthy, possibly due to frustration at playing in a pack that was getting hammered in the set pieces. Donnacha Ryan did well off the bench. One positive is that Shane Geraghty declared for England, absolute clueless player, we have 4 or 5 better options at out-half.

Leinster were a bit better, with D'Arcy showing a lot of graft and Sexton, like O'Gara, getting it done when it mattered.

With both provinces away from home if they get through to the semis, and neither in great form, I'd be betting on a French winner this year.

Ulster were unlucky that they again got a tough group (no pudding Italian teams yet again), but if you can't beat Edinburgh away from home you probably have no business in the quarters.

For me Trimble is well ahead of Earls as Fitzgerald's replacement on the wing and Isaac Boss is the best performing Irish scrum half this season by quite a margin. I'd expect Trimble to play against Italy, but Boss is probably too much of a stretch unless there's injuries. Paddy Wallace played well but D'Arcy is likely to start, good to have an option at 12. Special mention for Ferris, he was simply awesome, like a supercharged Quinlan. I hope he stays fit as he could be the difference for the 6 Nations.

[Real ale Madrid]

Interesting weekend.

Rugby doesn't come much worse than Friday nights borefest in Thomond. Very few came out of it with any credit, but ROG and Quinlan were the standouts for me. Been pointed out a lot in the media, but O'Connell seems to be getting very mouthy, possibly due to frustration at playing in a pack that was getting hammered in the set pieces. .


What did you think of O'Connell's sin binning?

I've only seen it once but I thought the referee was incorrect in calling a ruck and O'Connell was entitled to go for it.

I think Munster are in a decent side of the draw - wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the Ospreys overturn Biarritz in the quarters.

[OneRedArmy]

What did you think of O'Connell's sin binning?

I've only seen it once but I thought the referee was incorrect in calling a ruck and O'Connell was entitled to go for it.

I think Munster are in a decent side of the draw - wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the Ospreys overturn Biarritz in the quarters.I thought O'Connells sin-binning was as much for mouthing as in from the side. Munster were also lucky not to lose a prop to the bin at various points.

Munster usually up their game when it gets into the business end of the tournament, and who knows what will happen if we have another good 6 nations, but they really look like a team on the decline IMO.

[Real ale Madrid]

I think as captain he is entitled to be talking to the ref. The same ref was guessing as to what was going on at various intervals, I thought he was brutal. Its same french ref that wrongly gave a penalty to New Zealand against Munster last November 12 months when he penalised Mick O'Driscoll at rucktime when the AB's had clearly failed to control the ball. The AB's went up the field and scored the winning try.

I think its a little harsh to say Munster are in decline - I think you have to give Northampton a lot of credit for the way they performed. Munster seem to be playing better away from home alright tho. It will be another close game in April.

I remeber a few years ago Munster and Leinster were in the semi's with the final at Lansdowne and the expectation on them was huge. Munster lost in Toulouse and Leinster were beaten the following day by Perpignan, I wouldn't be putting too much money on an all French final just yet.

[tetsujin1979]

I remember that final, 2fm were giving away tickets every day to make up the shortfall in travelling fans
the touts took a hiding as well, every cloud and all that

[Aberdonian Stu]

Yeah it didn't help either that the ERC didn't do any sort of discount on the day. Obviously their hands were tied as people who bought early would have been up in arms but not being able to charge a low rate meant they couldn't get a late surge of fans in the door.

[OneRedArmy]

I think its a little harsh to say Munster are in decline
Maybe, but their huge success over pretty much the last decade has been built on strong set pieces. I know you criticised the ref, but many referees would've punished Munster more for their scrum problems. They were also very poor in the lineout, which is very dependant on Flannery coming back to fix.

O'Gara played very well, but O'Leary was poor, admittedly trying to make the best of poor ball.

In the backs the centre combination just isn't working. They really miss the creativity of Mafi and Tipoki. Earls is having second season blues and de Villiers looks slow and ponderous. Really only Warwick looks dangerous, but with the weaknesses up front neither he nor Howlett are getting ball they can run with.

As I said, come the quarter finals they may up it a few gears, but on the basis of Friday they are well off the mark and I actually think their pool was comparatively quite weak. Northampton are decent without being anything special, Treviso are a non-entity and Perpignan were below par.

[Jofspring]

Setup a league on www.guinnessfantasyrugby.com if anyone is interested in joining.

League name: foot.ie
Password: munster

[Macy]

I think its a little harsh to say Munster are in decline
They're not really bringing anyone through though are they at the moment - did I hear that Earls was the only player under 25 in the Munster team at the weekend?

[old git]

They're not really bringing anyone through though are they at the moment - did I hear that Earls was the only player under 25 in the Munster team at the weekend?

hard to bring players through when you have a succesfull team . the stakes are so high now you nearly have to put out your best team every game now .. i'm sure there is a few young munster lads itching to break through to senior team :ball:

[OneRedArmy]

hard to bring players through when you have a succesfull team . the stakes are so high now you nearly have to put out your best team every game now .. i'm sure there is a few young munster lads itching to break through to senior team :ball:
To be fair, Leinster have managed to bring a fair few through.

[Jofspring]

To be fair, Leinster have managed to bring a fair few through.

There are plenty of good players on the fringes ready to make the breakthrough with Munster, its just a matter of timing it right for when they can make the step up. You can see this is evident in Munsters A team who at the moment are undefeated in the british and irish league and regularly beat Leinster, Ulster and Connacht's A teams. Ya Leinster are giving the younger lads a chance but they got a hiding against Newport Gwent Dragons for doing it. As someone has said the stakes are high these days so its not as easy to give younger lads first team experience. There are problems with players coming through in certain positions but with the professional set ups through out the country i'm sure the IRFU and clubs are working on these problems.

[tetsujin1979]

I think Leinster definitely have a stronger youth setup, the squad for the U-20 Six Nations has 14 Leinster players and 5 from Munster!
from http://www.irishrugby.ie/283_19490.php

Andrew Conway (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster)
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)*
Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
Brian Kingston (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
David McSharry (UCD/Leinster)
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)*
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Forwards (14) -

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
Patrick Butler (Shannon/Munster)
Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Stewart Maguire (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster)
Robin O'Sullivan (Bective Rangers/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)*
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster)*
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)*

[DmanDmythDledge]

Leinster's academy set up is the best in the Northern Hemisphere, quite a few really promising players about to break through at the moment.

[Schumi]

Ya Leinster are giving the younger lads a chance but they got a hiding against Newport Gwent Dragons for doing it.

You can't use that game to judge the Leinster youth development though. That was a team with 2 or 3 first choice players and was never going to be able to compete with a full strength Magners League team.

Healy, Sexton, O'Brien and McLaughlin have all come through in the last year or so and McFadden looks seriously class, reminds me of Rob Kearney when he first got some games, not in style of play but just in sheer talent.

[Macy]

As someone has said the stakes are high these days so its not as easy to give younger lads first team experience.
Are there not more opportunities now there's play off's in the Magners?

[Razors left peg]

Setup a league on www.guinnessfantasyrugby.com if anyone is interested in joining.

League name: foot.ie
Password: munster

Joined that.... we could do with a few more since its only 2 of us at the moment :)

[OneRedArmy]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2010/0202/ireland.html
No real surprises, other than Sexton's injury. I suppose McLaughlin coming in for his first cap is a bit of a surprise, but Quinlan's international days are past. Only real selection I would quibble with is scrum-half cover where I'd put Boss on the bench.

[joeSoap]

Earls in for Trimble. Only change. Ferris won't be fit so McLaughlin wil deputise again. I'd prefer to see Sean O'Brien in there as he's a lot more physical, but who are any of us to question any selections made by Kidney. Some say Trimble is unlucky...I don't think so. He got a lot of ball against Italy and didn't seem to want to know...he offloaded a lot of it rather than take a chance and thats what wingers have to do. France have lost both of their wingers bit this won't weaken them in the slightest with Malzieu and Clerc to call upon. I expect us to up it a few notches and it will be a great game. Kearney can't have another game like Saturday! If he does, then the French will anihillate us-pure and simple. Elimination of basic errors that concede scrums is vital. Thats our achilles. I fancy us to either win or lose by 3 points...hopefully win!!

[endabob1]

Earls is lucky to get a shot imo, he's been poor this year, I didn't think Trimble did a lot wrong, there were much worse offenders, Kearney for example, had a shocker against the Azzuri, hopefully he was saving his A game for the weekend. ROG took his chance & I agree with Kidney's policy of playing the man in the shirt, he did it with Sexton in the Autum & I think he would have started against Italy but for the knock.
I can't see us getting anything from France though, their scrum destroyed the Boks and we'll do well to get any knd of parity, having Ferris back would be a big plus for posislbe turnovers but I'm not holding out much hope...

[Macy]

Some say Trimble is unlucky...I don't think so. He got a lot of ball against Italy and didn't seem to want to know...he offloaded a lot of it rather than take a chance and thats what wingers have to do.
He's unlucky in that he's injured I would've thought. If he'd come through unscathed he'd be starting imo.

[OneRedArmy]

Trimble had one great break but, really, given the amount of possession we box kicked or took up narrow channels, for both wingers it was a hark back to Simon Geoghegan hands in pockets freezing on the peripherary of the game stuff. I'd nearly have kept Trimble if he was fit as he's a much better defender and passer than Earls, but as Brent Pope makes the point, Earls has true pace. Its a riskier selection than Trimble, but Kidney doesn't get much wrong.

On the subject of box-kicking, I though O'Leary's was awful. Far too deep to allow the chasing winger a chance to press and not close enough to the touchline. His loitering at the back of rucks was also disturbing. I thought it might be due to our lethargic clean outs, but even when the ball could be clearly seen he repeatedly waited until the Italian defence got set. Even the Scots on Sunday gave us a lesson in quick recycling, although their inept backline couldn't do anything with it when they got it.

That said, I think our chances pretty much come down to Ferris starting and being fit enough to contribute. We need both Heaslip and Ferris playing at the top of their game to combat Harinordoquy. I fear for McLaughlin if he ends up playing. The game could completely pass him by.

Bastareaud I wouldn't worry too much about. BOD will test him defensively and no better man to stop him going forward.

[shakermaker1982]

There is no fixture I fear more than France away.

Ferris coming back is crucial. Bit of grunt needed. HUGE player for us.

I'll put my hair out if we end up resorting to a kicking game. The French back 3 can all catch and kick back with interest so I hope we've learnt some lessons. Hopefully Earl's can be our wide card.

[Schumi]

Ferris to start.

Sexton and Wallace are on the bench. I presume Darcy is going to cover the back three if there's an injury.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/10735_19696.php

[OneRedArmy]

Earls and Wallace have both played a fair bit at fullback, Kearney similar on the wing.

Delighted at Ferris starting. Lets hope he's close to 100%.

[SkStu]

from BBC website, massive disrespect from the French here, whining little biotches...

Scrum-half Morgan Parra has become the latest France player to hit out at Grand Slam champions Ireland in advance of Saturday's Six Nations clash.

Lionel Nallet cast doubts on Ireland's credentials earlier this week and Parra claimed that Declan Kidney's side "cheat every weekend".

"They have a great defence. (They're) cheating, but intelligently cheating. It's very well done," said Parra.

"If we did the same thing, we would be punished each time."

Parra added that he while he respected the Irish team, he had "little admiration" for last year's Six Nations champions.

The 2009 Grand Slam winners are undefeated in their past 12 matches but Parra is convinced that run will be brought to an end on Saturday.

"The Irish have a great team, with a Munster spine, but I am not impressed. We can be (impressed) by certain players but not in general by their team," he added.

We dissected the video very well. There's not a moment when they're not cheating.

France scrum-half Morgan Parra
"How many matches have they gone without defeat, 12, 13? Well fine, that will finish at 12 this Saturday."

Ireland have the added motivation of revenge as the country is still smarting at the way the Republic of Ireland football team was defeated by France in the World Cup play-offs following Thierry Henry's infamous handball.

Ireland back Keith Earls said recently they would not hesitate to cheat on Saturday but Parra hit back by claiming that the Irish do so all the time.

"That won't be a surprise," said Parra. "They have experienced players who can do so.

"We dissected the video very well. There's not a moment when they're not cheating.

606: DEBATE
It should be a great match and by far the best of the weekend, possibly the tournament

englandworldbeaters
"They're the least penalised team in the tournament, which is very impressive."

On Thursday, lock Nallet dubbed the Irish as "effective" but was far from gushing in his description of Declan Kidney's side.

"Their game does not make me jump," said Nallet.

"They are a European reference since they last won the tournament. But we're here, too. I do not see them as the best in the world."

Nallet acknowledged that he is expecting a sterner test than that produced by Scotland last weekend as the French clinched a comprehensive 18-9 win at Murrayfield.

"It will be a big fight to deliver face as we face stronger opponents than the Scots, especially up front," he added.

Should Ireland prevail against the Six Nations favourites at the Stade de France, it will be only their third successful visit to the French capital since 1952.

[OneRedArmy]

More worrying that Ferris missed the Captain's Run.

Not a good sign.

[Mr A]

Really annoyed with the garbage coming from the French camp this week. More than ever, I hope we stuff them.

[SkStu]

any links to watch the game online??

[Schumi]

http://myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=65813&part=sports

[strangeirish]

any links to watch the game online??
Only one I can get to work. Using Firefox btw.


http://shockstreams.com/ch1.php

[endabob1]

All the key moments went France's way, the bounce for D'Arcy - A minute later Healy is binned and we're behind. Flannery's moment of madness, we had a penalty advantage, overturned they end up scoring. One that's not mentioned in any reports, Ireland in the corner France deliberately infringe, we get the penatly but if Healy's was a card so was that, we failed to get the try..which seemed to be the story of the afternoon. Not scoring again before half time when we had so much posession & territory was the final nail, had we gone in 1 score down I think it would have been much closer.
All that said cool heads were needed and Healy & Flannery in particular need to look at themselves this morning.

[shakermaker1982]

Painful to watch.

[Schumi]

I said to someone that it was like a game from the 90s, Ireland could do nothing right.

[OneRedArmy]

When the French get their tails up there's no better team, they thrive on confidence and play at a pace that we can't live with.

One bad result doesn't invalidate a great run of results, but I think its a good time to look at what brand of rugby we're trying to play and plot a path to the World Cup. I strongly believe we need to play quicker more direct rugby, with more offloads, less going to ground and slow mauling.

That will dictate changes in the team, Hayes should get his century but we need to blood Mike Ross or Tom Court, and Redden or Boss need to play at 9, ditto Sexton.

Whilst we might win a few more games in the short-term playing our current style of rugby, we should have confidence in our talent pool and for the first time ever look beyond the next game.

[shakermaker1982]

I really thought we'd have a plan or two up our sleeve in readiness for the French blitz defence. Oh well. Wales will at least try something in a couple of weeks.

Sexton and Redden have to start.

The French 9/10 pairing was class. France deserved their win but we could have done better. Slow ball = no chance against that type of defence.

Flannery? What the hell was he thinking?

Hopefully we'll have a few more backs on the bench from now on. Murphy not match fit? I don't think Kearney's injury helped with all the rejigging.

I cannot even blame Barnes for the poor performance (cannot stand him and dread any time he ref's an Irish game). Oh well roll on England.

[Charlie Darwin]

Barnes was still dreadful as usual. He missed every single forward pass, one of which led to an Irish try.

[endabob1]

I really thought we'd have a plan or two up our sleeve in readiness for the French blitz defence. Oh well. Wales will at least try something in a couple of weeks. The Welsh will be lifted by their win I see a closer call there, I hope they win it and if we beat England it throws the doors open again


Sexton and Redden have to start. O'Gara's done little wrong to be fair but I tend to agree, I think O'Leary is too slow and predictable, Reddan at least will offer some variation

[
The French 9/10 pairing was class. France deserved their win but we could have done better. Slow ball = no chance against that type of defence. The thing is up 'till the yellow card I thought we were the better team, a few grubber kicks behind the rush defence got them turned and going backwards, for some reason we stopped this entirely once we were behind.


Flannery? What the hell was he thinking? No idea, especially in Paris the place where cool heads are most needed, it was effectively an 80 metre swing in territory, madness


Hopefully we'll have a few more backs on the bench from now on. Murphy not match fit? I don't think Kearney's injury helped with all the rejigging. Earls & Wallace are vital for the bench slots imo because they can play so many positions, I never really rated Wallace but I think he's been one of our better performers so far despite his limited involvement. If Kearney is out Earls goes to full back and our options become more limited.


I cannot even blame Barnes for the poor performance (cannot stand him and dread any time he ref's an Irish game). Oh well roll on England. easy now..... Barnes can still be blamed ;)

[Leeside Swagger]

Sexton in to see what he can do, I think TOL has to keep his place, with maybe a recall for Stringer on the bench, he'd offer something different and that tactic worked pretty well for us last year. Both are still a class above Boss and Redden if you ask me.

[SkStu]

only just had the balls to check out this thread following saturday mornings "performance". The summaries from endabob and shakermaker82 (in particular) are spot on.

It ws terrible to watch, absolutely terrible.

(ended up buying it off i-Setanta by the way for US$20, robbed!)

[strangeirish]

Only one I can get to work. Using Firefox btw.


http://shockstreams.com/ch1.php






(ended up buying it off i-Setanta by the way for US$20, robbed!)
Did you miss the link I put up or did it not work for you?

[endabob1]

O'Gara & Kevin Myers slugging it out in the Indo, I have to say i think Myers article is a hatchet job by someone with little knowledge but O'gara shouldn't be taking the bait.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-its-an-irish-characteristic-we-are-comfortable--with-failure-its-a-familiar-condition-and-it-suits-us-2064681.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/ogara-letter-to-editor-why-i-refuse-to--be-scapegoated-by-kevin-myers-2070434.html