Summer Soccer V Winter Soccer

[sullanefc]

Imagine if we still had Winter soccer this year?

How many games would we be behind at this stage. Between the all the rain of November and December, and the freezing conditions of the last few weeks.

Viva Summer soccer. :ball:

[Grey Boy]

Here here, we'd have no gates for clubs for 5 or 6 weeks. It would be a financial disaster. Dark old days - lets not go back there.

[Jicked]

Was it Sligo who's fans were claiming that their attendances were down because of vital farm work that has to take place in the long summer evenings. That was one of my favourites.

[MaryDrummer]

The club soccer is winter soccer though isn't it?!

[sligoman]

Football.

[Dillonman]

Imagine if we still had Winter soccer this year?

How many games would we be behind at this stage. Between the all the rain of November and December, and the freezing conditions of the last few weeks.

Viva Summer soccer. :ball:

I was thinking this meself, would be a complete disaster and if any game s did go ahead there would be virtually nobody at them so keep it in the Sumemr even though there still are postponments with heavy rain at times during the Summer.

[irishultra]

people who want loi to be played in winter deserve a facepalm. ireland really doesnt have a country for cold spells like this, and especially our football infrastructure which is absolute ****.

[Acornvilla]

the farm thing is true unfortunitly.. i know a lot of lads who went to town games every week until we switched to summer football. the summer weather helps make going to a game a more attractive proposition and helps s in europe but it hasnt helped the smaller clubs much

[sheao]

Summer Soccer without a doubt. Not just because of the weather but the LOI clubs have done well in Europe since the move to summer soccer. On another note, the Scottish leagues should really move to summer soccer aswell.

[Dillonman]

No matter which way you play the league, whether it be during the Summer or Winter, its going to effect smaller teams in some way, thats the problem, main point to think about is: which will affect the greater amount and which will generate better sponsorship, more coverage and increase crowds, not to mention European results, if they go back to the WInter timing then it will be a disaster, look at the Northern League, when was the last time any of the clubs had a positive result in Europe!

[gufc2000]

They'll be considering it up North aswell I'd imagine. Most of their Christmas programme was wiped out. It cost Coleraine up to £40,000

[Acornvilla]

They'll be considering it up North aswell I'd imagine. Most of their Christmas programme was wiped out. It cost Coleraine up to £40,000
if they swaped over it might make holding a compitition simmilar to the setanta cup much easier. id like to see the top 2 welsh teams get in aswell as llanelli and tns are both professional and would add a little extra somthing to the tournament

[irishultra]

Summer Soccer without a doubt. Not just because of the weather but the LOI clubs have done well in Europe since the move to summer soccer. On another note, the Scottish leagues should really move to summer soccer aswell.

btw irish weather isn't the worst, like a lot of countries have ****ter winter weather but the way ireland is so rural and has crap stadiums would make winter football just terrible.

the spl wouldn't need to go to summer football because they have quality stadiums and good transport in scotland.

[Macy]

Dark old days - lets not go back there.
Yeah, I remember those days 30 odd years ago when we last had a winter like this...


which will affect the greater amount and which will generate better sponsorship, more coverage and increase crowds, not to mention European results, if they go back to the WInter timing then it will be a disaster, look at the Northern League, when was the last time any of the clubs had a positive result in Europe!
Any real evidence for this increase in sponsorship and increased crowds? The only increase in TV Coverage is because of the TV Deal for international games and has nothing to do with the season timing. For the short period we're not up against UK football, or international tournaments, we're swamped by the GAA instead (and attendances are actually down during the UK close season anyway). European results are more to do with spending than league timing, comparison with the Irish League is invalid because of the spending differential and the fact they don't seem to give a toss about european football.

We're stuck with a "summer" season for the foreseeable future, but there's little, if any, evidence it's been of any benefit compared to a traditional season.

[Longfordian]

Was it Sligo who's fans were claiming that their attendances were down because of vital farm work that has to take place in the long summer evenings. That was one of my favourites.

Yeah partly the farmers and partly "housewives bringing their children to the beach" if I remember rightly. The farmers thing has a basis in reality. We definitely lost a few when it came in but as for the housewives..

[dcfcsteve]

the spl wouldn't need to go to summer football because they have quality stadiums and good transport in scotland.

That's largely true on the SPL stadium front. Though Fir Park always seems to have cancelled fixtures in bad weather for some inexplicable reason, and the SFA have had words with a few others in recent days about the performance of theirr under-soil heating.

However - there are three other senior divisions below the SPL you know, and their fixtures tend to get completely erased in bad weather, often for weeks on end. Lower division Scottish stadia are broadly better than the ones in Ireland (even compared to our Premier Division), but they do also tend to face worse weather than us.

After this Winter's fixture chaos in Scotland, I've no doubt the idea of Summer football will have crossed the minds of a few Chairmen there.

[galwayhoop]

Yeah, I remember those days 30 odd years ago when we last had a winter like this...


Any real evidence for this increase in sponsorship and increased crowds? The only increase in TV Coverage is because of the TV Deal for international games and has nothing to do with the season timing. For the short period we're not up against UK football, or international tournaments, we're swamped by the GAA instead (and attendances are actually down during the UK close season anyway). European results are more to do with spending than league timing, comparison with the Irish League is invalid because of the spending differential and the fact they don't seem to give a toss about european football.

We're stuck with a "summer" season for the foreseeable future, but there's little, if any, evidence it's been of any benefit compared to a traditional season.

fair play Macy.

i love the "imagine if we had winter football" topic popping up in the worst winter since 1982!!

there is absolutely no evidence that crowds are better because of the move (to summer soccer) or that sponsorship is better. surely the clash with the GAA in summer months (support and exposure wise) and also people on holiday etc. have reduced numbers/interest.

i'd definitely be all for winter soccer.

as for european results, fair enough some have got some decent results but no team has made th breakthrough to group stages, a lot have sailed very close to the wind trying to and in reality only 3 or 4 teams out of the 22 league sides see the benefit of it anyway.

[osarusan]

There is evidence that crowds are up. I understand that some regional clubs like Longford that were strong in the end of the winter football period and are nowhere now might look to the transition like they are a cause and effect, but the reality is that going to football in July is more pleasant than going in December and the quality of pitch and consequent standard follows.

Like it or not, encouraging people to go to games is all about putting on a matchday experience. Sunshine helps that dramatically.

There is legitimate reasons to review summer football, but if you want to advocate going back to winter ball and the European regression that will go with it, people will need to provide better reasons than 'sure its no better' or 'some of our fans are farmers'.I'd broadly agree with this, though I'm not sure about evidence that crowds are up, especially for each club. Rovers' crowds last season will bring up the average, but that doesn't do any good for clubs in the First Division, for example.

Also, I think the next few seasons in Europe will give some insight into how much of our on-the-field improvement had to do with summer football and how much had to do with spending cash clubs didn't have.

[pineapple stu]

Agreed. But we will never regress to the level of hammerings of yore IMO.
Wouldn't be too sure on that, tbh. Look at Sligo this year losing to a club that was trying to lose. I think once financial reality settles on the league, there'll be a couple of hammerings.

Though I was pleasantly surprised how a much weaker Pat's side than recent years still did very well in Europe this time around.

[dcfcsteve]

Garto speaketh the truth....

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2010/01/07/sportstory14353838t0.asp

About the havic Winter weather causes on Scottish football - yes.

On the spectator appeal of Shamrock Rovers and them 'doing up their stadium' - no.

:)

[Acornvilla]

But it hasn't done them any harm, thats my point. We can argue that summer football has or hasn't had caused improvement, but it can't be argued that going back will help anyone.



Agreed. But we will never regress to the level of hammerings of yore IMO.
it done us a lot of harm.. i can assure you that we had a lot of supporters from my area and even letrim and cavan who dont go anymore and it coencided with the switch... farmers and builders :)

[Acornvilla]

So get new fans! I don't want to sound trite, but why haven't they been replaced with the whippersnappers of Longford who can stay out when its bright?
because now were unattractive to watch unfortunitly, sucess brings fans, as your club has seen...... the attendance is dow over 1,000 than it was a few years ago.. thats a lot for us.. its a lot for any club

[Acornvilla]

And a return to winter football will arrest that decline?
ive never actually said that switching back was the sollution more that it atleast had an impact on our clubs fortunes...

but now that you mention it a lot of those lads i told you about have said that they would still be going but for the switch so meh..

[jinxy lilywhite]

Sorry but I have to go against the general mood and promote winter football. I think there is something unnatural about playing games in the middle of summer and the atmosphere at games imo are rubbish compared to floodlit games. Floodlit games i think provide tribal atmospheres and generally the placed is buzzing. There was nothing quite like standing in oriel in the ****ing rain, freezing cold wind watching a mediocre game of footy. it is what i call endurance.

I would compare summer football to playing a guitar with nylon strings. you just don't get the pain that proper strings provide you when you first learn

[irishultra]

well that is all great for you, but i go to matches to enjoy myself not to endure suffering. the reason the atmosphere is crap at games because it's hard for fans to care if they are playing bray wanderers for the 18th time in one season and loi grounds don't facilitate good atmosphere.

[Martinho II]

I would like the season to revert back to winter soccer for the following reasons:

1. xmas matches nothing like goin to a match at xmas with mates that havent being home in ages.

2. the atmosphere is a lot better and louder in the cold frosty air than the summer.

I rest my case...

[irishultra]

I would like to remain with summer football because:

1.More enjoyable experience. The LOI is depressing enough without being played in the depths of winter

2.Overshadowed by the English league and sadly even scottish leagues

3.More likely to travel-Ireland has poor transport, really poor and it be much harder to get to games in winter than it is in summer.

[Schumi]

but now that you mention it a lot of those lads i told you about have said that they would still be going but for the switch so meh..

Two thirds of the season is the same in the two seasons. Did they only go to games in December, January and February?

[Candystripe]

When Derry city come to Longford in the warm nights of summer next season I'm sure the atmosphere will be as good as any winter game that you's aspire too. ;)

[Fr Damo]

I think people are hanging on to old romantic memories (certainly the longford lads as they were sucessful) where they remember the good days with a cup a soup in the hands. And that's fair enough. I remember ATFC and Sligo going for Div 1 title in 94/95, gates a couple of thousand were common place at St Mels then and indeed the deceider against Sligo in Mels was a nite to remember for me. Cold March evening which sligo won two nil. (the Slgo lads will remeber signing whers the stand gone, where the stand gone to the tune of where's ya mama gone) as it had been blown down in the winter storms!
So... Anyway, Div 1 is back again in March and while looking forward to the game after the break i'm not looking forward to the cold, wet march evening, the same type of weather i fondly remember of the 90s, but only cos we ain't as good as we were!

For the record, i'd perfer winter football.

[Acornvilla]

mods out of intrest could we have a poll on this?

[mypost]

I think there is something unnatural about playing games in the middle of summer and the atmosphere at games imo are rubbish compared to floodlit games.

Later kos fix that problem.


There was nothing quite like standing in oriel in the ****ing rain, freezing cold wind watching a mediocre game of footy. it is what i call endurance.

It's what I call hell.

[passerrby]

Yeah partly the farmers and partly "housewives bringing their children to the beach" if I remember rightly. The farmers thing has a basis in reality. We definitely lost a few when it came in but as for the housewives..

so all the young men are working on the farm while all the housewives are at the beach.. so we have gone from roddy collins to jackie collins

[Riddickcule]

I disagree with the dark cold night factor improving the atmosphere.

In my book, the atmosphere is top notch when its scorching and everyones either topless or got one layer on :D;)

[irishultra]

scoring in ireland? lol when.

[Macy]

2.Overshadowed by the English league and sadly even scottish leagues
But attendances are actually down during the UK close season rather than up.

A move back probably wouldn't change much, just as the move to summer football didn't change anything for the positive - as shown by people still trying to justify the switch with anecdotes and mistruths. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to football - it should be watched stood up, and in a winter season.

[irishultra]

well im not a traditionalists at all. the only reason we had football during winter is prob because britain did it. british traditions translated to other leagues but it doesn't make them sacred. my opinion.

[Acornvilla]

But attendances are actually down during the UK close season rather than up.

A move back probably wouldn't change much, just as the move to summer football didn't change anything for the positive - as shown by people still trying to justify the switch with anecdotes and mistruths. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to football - it should be watched stood up, and in a winter season.
standing in the old guiness shed :)

[Riddickcule]

I can't make up my mind in this argument,

Summer produces better conditions on the pitch and it gives you something to do in the summer.
Winter would get you through those cold, dark days in January which has nothing else to offer, however the conditions would decline (eg. the current weather)

[Straightstory]

European results are more to do with spending than league timing.

Simply not true. The major factor is that Irish clubs are well into their season by the time European competition comes around.

[osarusan]

Simply not true. The major factor is that Irish clubs are well into their season by the time European competition comes around.

I don't see how you can dismiss the idea that spending is not a major factor when so many of the clubs with good runs - Derry, Cork, Shels for example - suffered severe problems soon after.

[pineapple stu]

The good European runs started in 2000/01 - when clubs started going full-time. That's not a coincidence. I don't doubt the timing has helped too, but you simply can't dismiss the effects of full-time squads.

[sligored]

I think people are hanging on to old romantic memories (certainly the longford lads as they were sucessful) where they remember the good days with a cup a soup in the hands. And that's fair enough. I remember ATFC and Sligo going for Div 1 title in 94/95, gates a couple of thousand were common place at St Mels then and indeed the deceider against Sligo in Mels was a nite to remember for me. Cold March evening which sligo won two nil. (the Slgo lads will remeber signing whers the stand gone, where the stand gone to the tune of where's ya mama gone) as it had been blown down in the winter storms!
So... Anyway, Div 1 is back again in March and while looking forward to the game after the break i'm not looking forward to the cold, wet march evening, the same type of weather i fondly remember of the 90s, but only cos we ain't as good as we were!

For the record, i'd perfer winter football.

i remember hundreds of sligo supporters travelling down to mels that same year only for the game to be called off due to frost 45 minutes before kick-off. A scary journey home was all we got for our travails.
I was a pessimist at first about summer soccer but have to say it has been a great success so far.

[punkrocket]

The schedule in the IL has been decimated by the winter weather, no matches again this weekend. Most teams haven't played in weeks missing out on the boxing day derbies, the biggest money spinner for all of them which will now be replayed sometime during the week at a fraction of the gate. No matches = no income and clubs like Distillery are creaking under the pressure. I know that these conditions are not the norm and that the usual bumper crowds on boxing day could be used as an argument in favour on winter football, but it is only one fixture out of many.
And like it or not climate change and accompanying impacts will increasingly be a factor in everyone's lives all year round. Things will be different in time to come.
The only issue that I have with summer football is that the cup final is held too late in the year and it now too often makes for a dismal event. It should be started and finished earlier in the year, as it's no showcase at the moment.

[dcfcsteve]

but now that you mention it a lot of those lads i told you about have said that they would still be going but for the switch so meh..

25yrs as an LOI fan has taught me that many of those who used to go but don't any more will have a 'plausible' excuse to hand to justify it.

Usually such excuses portray them in a passive, almost victim, role - 'I'd still go, if only it wasn't for the (pick your favourite ) weather/harvest/kids/wife/college/cost/distance/manager/board/team etc etc etc'.

It's rare to hear a lapsed fan be honest and say : "I just lost interest and can't be arsed any more". Yet for many, that is the reason why.

At leats the builders you mentioned earlier on who couldn't come after the Summer switch now no longer have any excuse for not being available.... :)

[dcfcsteve]

I think people are hanging on to old romantic memories (certainly the longford lads as they were sucessful) where they remember the good days with a cup a soup in the hands. And that's fair enough. I remember ATFC and Sligo going for Div 1 title in 94/95, gates a couple of thousand were common place at St Mels then and indeed the deceider against Sligo in Mels was a nite to remember for me. Cold March evening which sligo won two nil. (the Slgo lads will remeber signing whers the stand gone, where the stand gone to the tune of where's ya mama gone) as it had been blown down in the winter storms!


You can't rememebr it that well as it was the season before ! ;)

Both teams were in the Premier in 1994/5.

Maybe winter football numbs the brain cells/memory..... :)


i remember hundreds of sligo supporters travelling down to mels that same year only for the game to be called off due to frost 45 minutes before kick-off.

*cough*....

[dcfcsteve]

I think there is something unnatural about playing games in the middle of summer and the atmosphere at games imo are rubbish compared to floodlit games. Floodlit games i think provide tribal atmospheres and generally the placed is buzzing.

Was there also something unnatural about 3pm kick-offs on a Sunday ? :confused: As before the league got flooodlights from Sky, most games were played in daylight - even in Winter.

Either memories are very short on here, or people think the league only began a decade or so back.

Don't forget that the most succesful periods of LOI football for attendances almost entirely involved daylight games. Not that that fans at the time found it an unnatural experience.

[danthesaint]

The good European runs started in 2000/01 - when clubs started going full-time. That's not a coincidence. I don't doubt the timing has helped too, but you simply can't dismiss the effects of full-time squads.

Pats were part time last season,
i agree about the timing, its far better to be playing european footie in full flow in your season than to be play an opposition and both teams are coming back from preseason. we have more time to prepare

[Acornvilla]

25yrs as an LOI fan has taught me that many of those who used to go but don't any more will have a 'plausible' excuse to hand to justify it.

Usually such excuses portray them in a passive, almost victim, role - 'I'd still go, if only it wasn't for the (pick your favourite ) weather/harvest/kids/wife/college/cost/distance/manager/board/team etc etc etc'.

It's rare to hear a lapsed fan be honest and say : "I just lost interest and can't be arsed any more". Yet for many, that is the reason why.

At leats the builders you mentioned earlier on who couldn't come after the Summer switch now no longer have any excuse for not being available.... :)
no money :)

[LK37oldskool]

The weather we're getting these last few summers it seems more like winter football!