An Over Rated Irish 11

[yapster]

steven reid is the epitome of an overrated player and if you can't see that then the thread is piontless. irish people say english overrate their players yet they have players playing for the biggest european clubs, while steven reid goes on loan to queens park ranger



I gotta agree with that... every young Irish player is lauded as the next big thing, There tends to be a mass over-reaction in most Irish supporters at times. The Charlton years was embarassing with the exultations of a team that played some of the worst football ever played. I could understand it at first because it was the first time for many of them to see Ireland on the big stage.

Now it seems at any kid that comes on the scene is lauded, o Shea started so well and I even thought he would be some player but sadly he is nowhere close. Kennedy flopped after high expectations, so I think these expectations are way over the top. Liam Millar has been given a chance at every club and remember Alex Ferguson couldn't wait to get him and he did give him more than a chance to prove himself. McGeady has proved so far on the International stage to be next to useless in most games for Ireland.

[irishultra]

steven reid is good but not as good as he's made out to be by some on this forum and people like dunphy. he's an important player for ireland definetly with good qualities but he's an average midfielder.

[yapster]

steven reid is good but not as good as he's made out to be by some on this forum and people like dunphy. he's an important player for ireland definetly with good qualities but he's an average midfielder.


Spot on again ultra, S.Reid & A.Reid were lauded as the saviors of the Irish mid-field by Dunphy and others, I like S.Reid but he is an average player and A.Reid was lauded as the Irish Maradonna ffs. S.Reid is skillfull and has good feet but he is not the player some people make him out to be.

[Qwerty]

Going on the original criteria of fans believing players were pretty good but turned out not to be.

Joe Murphy - while not a bad player when he played for Tranmere many of us thought he would have gone on to bigger things. He really didn't.

Gary Kelly - I never really rated him, I know he set a record for Leeds appearances and got in a Premiership Team of The Year. He promised so much yet never became a real top clas player IMO. Strong competition from Stephen Kelly but young Steve has time on his side I suppsoe.

Phil Babb - Nuff said.

Ian Harte - Like his cousin promised so much but his slide started at 27. He was found out.

Barry Quinn - 1 cap I think, given the number of U21 caps and his appearances for Coventry we all thought he was the biz. Where is he now? I don't care.

Alan Quinn - Again didn't deliver on early promise.

Kevin Thornton - Oh dear.

Stephen McPhail - Such promise and nothing to show for it in the green jersey.

Richie Partridge - How many posts about Richie on foot.ie. Sad.

Michael Reddy - How could we have been so wrong??

David Connolly - He had his fans no doubt about that, started well but then fizzled out in the green.


Subs: Mark Kennedy, Liam Miller, Gareth Farrelly, Willie Boland.

[yapster]

Going on the original criteria of fans believing players were pretty good but turned out not to be.

Joe Murphy - while not a bad player when he played for Tranmere many of us thought he would have gone on to bigger things. He really didn't.

Gary Kelly - I never really rated him, I know he set a record for Leeds appearances and got in a Premiership Team of The Year. He promised so much yet never became a real top clas player IMO. Strong competition from Stephen Kelly but young Steve has time on his side I suppsoe.

Phil Babb - Nuff said.

Ian Harte - Like his cousin promised so much but his slide started at 27. He was found out.

Barry Quinn - 1 cap I think, given the number of U21 caps and his appearances for Coventry we all thought he was the biz. Where is he now? I don't care.

Alan Quinn - Again didn't deliver on early promise.

Kevin Thornton - Oh dear.

Stephen McPhail - Such promise and nothing to show for it in the green jersey.

Richie Partridge - How many posts about Richie on foot.ie. Sad.

Michael Reddy - How could we have been so wrong??

David Connolly - He had his fans no doubt about that, started well but then fizzled out in the green.


Subs: Mark Kennedy, Liam Miller, Gareth Farrelly, Willie Boland.


Willo Flood is another

[SilkCut]

steven reid is the epitome of an overrated player and if you can't see that then the thread is piontless. irish people say english overrate their players yet they have players playing for the biggest european clubs, while steven reid goes on loan to queens park ranger

Reid went on loan to get match fitness apparently. In any case its unfair to lump him and Keith O'Neill into the over rated category, they were both coming along nicely until injury struck, especially O'Neill who was almost crippled with injury. Reid was linked to Man Utd after 2002 world cup then the injuries started, they never really had a chance to develop.
My team would be,

Kenny (Once considered best keeper outside premiership! eh no)

Kernaghan (Big fuss getting him to play for us. Why?)
Breen (Linked to Barcelona? Couldn't make West Ham side)
Phelan (Most expensive full back at one stage - good but not that good!)
Carr (Considered the best in England before going to Newcastle, again, good but not that good)

Kennedy (Good God what were Liverpool thinking)
Miller (Next Roy Keane)
Mahon (Next Liam Brady)
Liam O'Brien (The Irish Zico???)

Jason Byrne (Sure to make it overseas.)
Joey Lapira (I know not hyped up but surely the fact this guy was rated highly enough to get a cap makes him over rated???)

[an_ceannaire]

I gotta agree with that... every young Irish player is lauded as the next big thing, There tends to be a mass over-reaction in most Irish supporters at times. The Charlton years was embarassing with the exultations of a team that played some of the worst football ever played. I could understand it at first because it was the first time for many of them to see Ireland on the big stage.

Now it seems at any kid that comes on the scene is lauded, o Shea started so well and I even thought he would be some player but sadly he is nowhere close. Kennedy flopped after high expectations, so I think these expectations are way over the top. Liam Millar has been given a chance at every club and remember Alex Ferguson couldn't wait to get him and he did give him more than a chance to prove himself. McGeady has proved so far on the International stage to be next to useless in most games for Ireland.

Paul McShame was gonna be the next Franco Baresi! And Seamus Coleman is the new Cafu!!:rolleyes:

[an_ceannaire]

Going on the original criteria of fans believing players were pretty good but turned out not to be.

Joe Murphy - while not a bad player when he played for Tranmere many of us thought he would have gone on to bigger things. He really didn't.

Gary Kelly - I never really rated him, I know he set a record for Leeds appearances and got in a Premiership Team of The Year. He promised so much yet never became a real top clas player IMO. Strong competition from Stephen Kelly but young Steve has time on his side I suppsoe.

Phil Babb - Nuff said.

Ian Harte - Like his cousin promised so much but his slide started at 27. He was found out.

Barry Quinn - 1 cap I think, given the number of U21 caps and his appearances for Coventry we all thought he was the biz. Where is he now? I don't care.

Alan Quinn - Again didn't deliver on early promise.

Kevin Thornton - Oh dear.

Stephen McPhail - Such promise and nothing to show for it in the green jersey.

Richie Partridge - How many posts about Richie on foot.ie. Sad.

Michael Reddy - How could we have been so wrong??

David Connolly - He had his fans no doubt about that, started well but then fizzled out in the green.


Subs: Mark Kennedy, Liam Miller, Gareth Farrelly, Willie Boland.


Michael Reddy!!!! Good call!!!! :D

[endabob1]

Reid went on loan to get match fitness apparently. In any case its unfair to lump him and Keith O'Neill into the over rated category, they were both coming along nicely until injury struck, especially O'Neill who was almost crippled with injury. Reid was linked to Man Utd after 2002 world cup then the injuries started, they never really had a chance to develop.
My team would be,

Kenny (Once considered best keeper outside premiership! eh no)

Kernaghan (Big fuss getting him to play for us. Why?)
Breen (Linked to Barcelona? Couldn't make West Ham side)
Phelan (Most expensive full back at one stage - good but not that good!)
Carr (Considered the best in England before going to Newcastle, again, good but not that good)

Kennedy (Good God what were Liverpool thinking)
Miller (Next Roy Keane)
Mahon (Next Liam Brady)
Liam O'Brien (The Irish Zico???)

Jason Byrne (Sure to make it overseas.)
Joey Lapira (I know not hyped up but surely the fact this guy was rated highly enough to get a cap makes him over rated???)

Harsh on Carr considering you let Keith O'Neil off the hook based on injuries, Carr was the best Right back in the league at Spurs before he had a bad injury which could have finished him and he wasn't ever the same player after that.

Zico O'Brien was a good tidy player, being at United didn't help his cause but he did well with Newcastle when they got promotted.

Phelan is a great shout though, nice guy, decent player, but a record transfer for a full back when he was midtable standard at best.

A lot of guys come through at big clubs as kids or impress lower down the leagues & get picked up relatively cheaply but then don't make it and end up (back) in the lower leagues, Kennedy is a classic example as is Miller.
We get excited because we think Utd or Liverpool must know they're buying a star of the future when in reality it's just a calculated gamble, even if like Kennedy it doesn't come off they get most of the money back by selling them on to a team in the Championship.

[osarusan]

o Shea started so well and I even thought he would be some player but sadly he is nowhere close.
I'd say his hundreds of appearances for Man United, his 60 or so caps for Ireland, his 4 premier league medals and Champions league medal will scarcely make up for the criticism you've levelled at him.

[yapster]

I'd say his hundreds of appearances for Man United, his 60 or so caps for Ireland, his 4 premier league medals and Champions league medal will scarcely make up for the criticism you've levelled at him.


I'm talking about his footballing ability, a utility player at United, had been appalling for most of his Irish career,granted he had a fairly good campaign under Trap. Still prone to schoolboy mistakes, his passing is garbage most of the time.Yes he won medals as a bit player for United. Can you really say he is the player that everyone thought he could be?

[tetsujin1979]

I'm talking about his footballing ability, a utility player at United, had been appalling for most of his Irish career,granted he had a fairly good campaign under Trap. Still prone to schoolboy mistakes, his passing is garbage most of the time.Yes he won medals as a bit player for United. Can you really say he is the player that everyone thought he could be?
He played more games last season than any other outfield player, bar Ronaldo.

[yapster]

[QUOTE=tetsujin1979;1301716]He played more games last season than any other outfield player, bar Ronaldo.[/QUOTE


Only because of injuries to others players on the team

[EastTerracer]

[QUOTE=tetsujin1979;1301716]He played more games last season than any other outfield player, bar Ronaldo.[/QUOTE


Only because of injuries to others players on the team

Ok - you've proved your own lack of knowledge again there. O'Shea was a first choice selection for United throughout last season even when they had a full-strength squad to choose from. Admittedly, that wasn't the case in previous years but it most definitely was last season. Please stop posting this muck.

[yapster]

[QUOTE=yapster;1301765]

Ok - you've proved your own lack of knowledge again there. O'Shea was a first choice selection for United throughout last season even when they had a full-strength squad to choose from. Admittedly, that wasn't the case in previous years but it most definitely was last season. Please stop posting this muck.


And a very good morning to you sir:)

Evra was out of sorts last year for some reason or other and that is why o Shea got so many games. O Shea is an average footballer at best, his mistake against Italy in Dublin was dumb to say the least. He was lucky to have Dunne beside him to keep him concentrated on the game. I don't think he has that innate hardness a footballer has inside him.

[tetsujin1979]

And a very good morning to you sir:)

Evra was out of sorts last year for some reason or other and that is why o Shea got so many games. O Shea is an average footballer at best, his mistake against Italy in Dublin was dumb to say the least. He was lucky to have Dunne beside him to keep him concentrated on the game. I don't think he has that innate hardness a footballer has inside him.
Evra played 46 times last season, not bad for a player who was out of sorts, especially with a manager who's dropped players in the past for not stepping up.
I've asked this before, do you do any research, or do you just make it up as you go along?

[carloz]

[QUOTE=EastTerracer;1301767]


And a very good morning to you sir:)

Evra was out of sorts last year for some reason or other and that is why o Shea got so many games. O Shea is an average footballer at best, his mistake against Italy in Dublin was dumb to say the least. He was lucky to have Dunne beside him to keep him concentrated on the game. I don't think he has that innate hardness a footballer has inside him.

You are aware that O'Shea played most of last season at right back, while Evra is a left back. You seem to get a kick out of running down Irish players. You give out to others for bigging up the Irish players too much, while you are simply giving no credit to them whatsoever

[yapster]

My mistake, Gary Neville I meant..


Look at my posts on Stokes,seamus Coleman, Owen Garvan.

[elroy]

[QUOTE=EastTerracer;1301767]


And a very good morning to you sir:)

Evra was out of sorts last year for some reason or other and that is why o Shea got so many games. O Shea is an average footballer at best, his mistake against Italy in Dublin was dumb to say the least. He was lucky to have Dunne beside him to keep him concentrated on the game. I don't think he has that innate hardness a footballer has inside him.

You have mentioned JOSH has by and large been very poor for Ireland? Please give examples.

The Italian goal? Not sure JOSH can be blamed for that, he won the ball in the Italian half and if anything was unfortunate the clearance went to an Italian who broke quickly, yes was out of position by doing so but the Italians still had more than half the pitch to go. If anyone was at fault for that goal it was Sledge who did not close Gilardino down quick enough but the goal certainly did not arise due to a JOSH error.

[yapster]

Sledge made a bad error also but he can be excused as he was a novice to International football however O Shea is far from a novice and has bags of Champions League games under his belt. He was hopelessly out of position ffs. Yes overall I can say he has had quite a few bad games for Ireland.

[gustavo]

Don't know what Evra being out of sorts had to do with anything seeing as he's a left back and O'Shea was their first choice right back for the whole season

[elroy]

Sledge made a bad error also but he can be excused as he was a novice to International football however O Shea is far from a novice and has bags of Champions League games under his belt. He was hopelessly out of position ffs. Yes overall I can say he has had quite a few bad games for Ireland.

I didnt ask for an opinion which you stated already, I asked for examples to support these "bad games", should be easy if there are so many.

He was out of position due to the fact that he had to cover for certain centre midfielders who had gone forward. If he had rigidly stuck to his position the Italians still wouldve broken forward with likely the same result

[Irishwolf]

I cant believe someone would include Hunty in an overrated Irish 11.Hes a top plyer to have in the squad.Especially coming off the bench.

[carloz]

Im 100% sure if Alex Ferguson were playing in a Champions League Final tomorrow and had a fully fit team to pick from, O'Shea would start ahead of Neville at right back. Yes Neville is still technically captain (Fergie will not take that off him while he is at the club), but O'Shea has made that position his own. He was excellent last season and it was his best season since his break through season. it was also easily his best campaign in a green jersey

[yapster]

I didnt ask for an opinion which you stated already, I asked for examples to support these "bad games", should be easy if there are so many.

He was out of position due to the fact that he had to cover for certain centre midfielders who had gone forward. If he had rigidly stuck to his position the Italians still wouldve broken forward with likely the same result


Listen, O Shea has had lots of bad games for Ireland and to say that he hasn't is too one-eyed, I'm not going to list every game for you look them up yourself. I have said that he had a good campaign beside Dunne. Gary Neville is past his best and injuries have been a problem for him so of course Ferguson will have to use him. Yes O' Shea did alright for the most part last year for United. My opinion is Ferguson is using him as a stop-gap until something better comes on the market.

[Acornvilla]

fergesons remarks about o' shea prior to last seasons champions league final

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/20/rio-ferdinand-alex-ferguson


"He can play anywhere for me: all along the back four, midfield – he's even played in goal for a short period – and because of injuries to Gary and Wes he's been a permanent fixture," said Ferguson. "He takes his place in Rome because he deserves it, because he is ahead of everyone now. He is a fantastic, top professional."

dosent sound like alex fergeson shares your opinion..
and dont even begin to think you know more than sir alex...
you are honestly just getting on my nerves now...

[elroy]

Listen, O Shea has had lots of bad games for Ireland and to say that he hasn't is too one-eyed, I'm not going to list every game for you look them up yourself. I have said that he had a good campaign beside Dunne. Gary Neville is past his best and injuries have been a problem for him so of course Ferguson will have to use him. Yes O' Shea did alright for the most part last year for United. My opinion is Ferguson is using him as a stop-gap until something better comes on the market.

How will I look them up myself?? Google? :rolleyes:
I never said JOSH hasnt had bad games for us but he def hasnt had "alot".

All im asking for are examples to back up your opinion?? Not very hard. For example im a strong critic of McGeady on this site and can easily give several examples of poor performances/incidents in matches. Not unreasonable to ask you to do the same to back up your view.

[elroy]

fergesons remarks about o' shea prior to last seasons champions league final

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/20/rio-ferdinand-alex-ferguson



dosent sound like alex fergeson shares your opinion..
and dont even begin to think you know more than sir alex...
you are honestly just getting on my nerves now...

Believe it or not, in an interview with Fergie only last week, he described JOSH as a "big loss to the club" with his current injury. Hardly stop gap!!

[yapster]

Ok I will give you one example, Slovakia away 2007,

[yapster]

Still we will wait & see.

[elroy]

Ok I will give you one example, Slovakia away 2007,

Thats more like it, wouldnt necessarily agree with you, he wasnt at fault for any goal that night but your entitled to your opinion. Nonetheless I still dont think its fair to say he has had lots of bad games for us.

[yapster]

Thats more like it, wouldnt necessarily agree with you, he wasnt at fault for any goal that night but your entitled to your opinion. Nonetheless I still dont think its fair to say he has had lots of bad games for us.


It was at fault for Slovakias 2nd goal when he turned his arse instead of tackling the scorer. Lack of courage on his part.

[Acornvilla]

It was at fault for Slovakias 2nd goal when he turned his arse instead of tackling the scorer. Lack of courage on his part.
grand but does that make him a bad player 3 years later?

[SilkCut]

Harsh on Carr considering you let Keith O'Neil off the hook based on injuries, Carr was the best Right back in the league at Spurs before he had a bad injury which could have finished him and he wasn't ever the same player after that.

Zico O'Brien was a good tidy player, being at United didn't help his cause but he did well with Newcastle when they got promotted.

Phelan is a great shout though, nice guy, decent player, but a record transfer for a full back when he was midtable standard at best.

A lot of guys come through at big clubs as kids or impress lower down the leagues & get picked up relatively cheaply but then don't make it and end up (back) in the lower leagues, Kennedy is a classic example as is Miller.
We get excited because we think Utd or Liverpool must know they're buying a star of the future when in reality it's just a calculated gamble, even if like Kennedy it doesn't come off they get most of the money back by selling them on to a team in the Championship.

Some really good points there endabob, I don't disagree that O'Brien was a decent player, just saying he was over rated. I completely forgot about Carrs injuries and you are quite correct it did almost finish him as a player so lets take him out and replace him with Eddie McGoldrick, Like Phelan he was a decent player but the fact that he was rated highly enough to be signed by Arsenal makes him over rated IMO. Means I have to change my formation but I find it hard to find many over rated fullbacks. I am loathe to call Ian Harte over rated as he was only rated for his passing and dead ball abilities never his defensive qualities, I don't think anyone can argue with his dead ball abilities. Gary Kelly was never over rated either he was always considered a solid unexciting player which he was, he also played much of his football for us further up the field because of Irwin, Finnan and Carr. We had so much quality at full back it was unbelievable!!

[elroy]

It was at fault for Slovakias 2nd goal when he turned his arse instead of tackling the scorer. Lack of courage on his part.

I disagree, that second goal was Jonathan Douglas fault, who had just come on, let his man go and did not close him down. Trying to find footage of the goal to illustrate this.

[yapster]

grand but does that make him a bad player 3 years later?


I'm NOT saying he's a bad player by no means, but he is far from accomplished as his passing & positional play is not up to scratch. Listen I really do hope he improves his game overall and I'm sure he is doing his best but he is 29 in April and the bad parts of his game have not improved since 2003. He needs players like Dunne,Vidic & Ferdinand to think for him and keep him in line. I hope he nails the full back position at United because although Ferguson has used him in different positions down through the years he hasn't been able to become established in any one yet.

[geysir]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QbrZupV_Q-k/SbXGVlxvWCI/AAAAAAAACgU/_fo2oBcVnt4/s400/wept.jpg

[Acornvilla]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QbrZupV_Q-k/SbXGVlxvWCI/AAAAAAAACgU/_fo2oBcVnt4/s400/wept.jpg
ah lord blessus:rolleyes:

[yapster]

ah lord blessus:rolleyes:


Is this another over-hyped starlet?

[carloz]

Listen, O Shea has had lots of bad games for Ireland and to say that he hasn't is too one-eyed, I'm not going to list every game for you look them up yourself. I have said that he had a good campaign beside Dunne. Gary Neville is past his best and injuries have been a problem for him so of course Ferguson will have to use him. Yes O' Shea did alright for the most part last year for United. My opinion is Ferguson is using him as a stop-gap until something better comes on the market.

He really hasn't though. He had a couple of absolutly awful games for us in Cyprus, but other than that I am struggling to think of one. Maybe you are confusing quiet games with bad games.

[an_ceannaire]

He really hasn't though. He had a couple of absolutly awful games for us in Cyprus, but other than that I am struggling to think of one. Maybe you are confusing quiet games with bad games.


Ah he has Carlos.....he has had some truly embarrassing games in green...
But
Under Trap Josh has become one of our top men, defo our most improved player and an itengral part of all that is right with our team. A consistent run at Man Yoo is no coincidence.
If he had left ManU a few years back and been a regular starter at a decent club in a nailed down position for a few years now I would think he would be a top class premiership footballer.

[Colbert Report]

Ok I will give you one example, Slovakia away 2007,

Total rubbish, I have the video on my computer at home and I will post the clip in this thread when I can access it next weekend.