View Full Version : Sporting Fingal sponsorship deal provokes council row
The Lep
31/12/2009, 2:23 PM
Dominate the boards? Little clubs?
Keep that up, it'll make it all the funnier when you do a Dublin City.
The story is interesting, but you clearly need to look a bit further than your own 'home' for a bit of news if you think this incident would even cause a decent sized ripple in the cesspool that is the LoI.
I'm a Cork City fan, come back and try to impress us when you have the revenue commisioners chasing you, Malta declaring war on you, a Holy Trinity to match Coughlan-Collins-Drew and the captain of your club begging for busfare on the radio.
You're in the ha'penny place at the moment, amateurs!
Thats a tough act to follow :D
The Lep
31/12/2009, 2:33 PM
Absolutely you do. Maybe you should start doing it rather than slagging everyone who disagrees with you, calling them jealous little club fans?
As i said, that works both ways and i didnt call anyone " Jealous little club fans" as you put it. I used the word Jealous in one post, little clubs in another and i didnt say fans anywhere.
Dont be taking things out of context Stu.
You could have PM'd me that instead of clogging the thread with non topic related banter.
SligoBrewer
31/12/2009, 4:26 PM
As i said, that works both ways and i didnt call anyone " Jealous little club fans" as you put it. I used the word Jealous in one post, little clubs in another and i didnt say fans anywhere.
Dont be taking things out of context Stu.
You could have PM'd me that instead of clogging the thread with non topic related banter.
You're an embarrassment to the other Fingal fan.
passerrby
31/12/2009, 5:26 PM
Its still a non story. Its the same old anti-Sporting Fingal heads scrapping the barrel to have a pop and trying to make something out of nothing .
Its good to see the begrudgery still in play with some fans of the other clubs.
At this rate, it looks like Sporting Fingal will dominate the boards next season as you would rather talk about us than talk about your own little clubs. Nothing much to talk about at home so you think of something trivial or something un-original to post .
Lads/Ladies, at least wait until a proper juicey story pops up and the fai gets involved before exaggerating what was said in a council meeting .
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
:D
If memory serves me right we had this response from drogs ,cork, derry and most other clubs at the beginning of there downfall .but your right lep lets wait for the fai to get involved before we assume there is a problem.. ya right
blackholesun
31/12/2009, 6:06 PM
In my own fin svcs related job, everyone is required under legislation to do an anti-money laundering / bribery / business ethics CBT training course and exam every year. I cant find the exact reference on the web, but this course mentions how paying over the odds for something can be a form of bribery or curruption. E.g. some company looking to do business in some dodgy african state might pay the presidents cousins firm a large sum of money for say some basic security services.
I wonder what the going rate to be a secondary sponsor for a first division team is as compared with a six figure suggested by someone earlier in this thread?!
bhs
That will fly way over Leps head.
Poor Student
31/12/2009, 7:53 PM
The Lep, if as suggested here Fingal's main funding is as a result of an arrangement between Gannon and the Fingal CC tieing in Anglo then I would be worried. Given the current climate your funding is likely to shrink in the near future. For a fledgling club like Sporting who's long term survival strategy seems to be predicated on expotential growth on the basis of a large initial outlay then the club runs the risk of implosion or at least large contraction.
CSFShels
31/12/2009, 10:28 PM
The Lep, if as suggested here Fingal's main funding is as a result of an arrangement between Gannon and the Fingal CC tieing in Anglo then I would be worried. Given the current climate your funding is likely to shrink in the near future. For a fledgling club like Sporting who's long term survival strategy seems to be predicated on expotential growth on the basis of a large initial outlay then the club runs the risk of implosion or at least large contraction.
Thats going to consume Lep's head.
The Lep
01/01/2010, 4:18 AM
Spooky, thats the year the 5 year plan ends :D
The Lep
01/01/2010, 4:23 AM
The Lep, if as suggested here Fingal's main funding is as a result of an arrangement between Gannon and the Fingal CC tieing in Anglo then I would be worried. Given the current climate your funding is likely to shrink in the near future. For a fledgling club like Sporting who's long term survival strategy seems to be predicated on expotential growth on the basis of a large initial outlay then the club runs the risk of implosion or at least large contraction.
No one is suggesting otherwise and its highly likely that it may so we will cross that bridge after the 2012 season if all goes to plan up to then.
Mr_Parker
01/01/2010, 10:12 AM
Mr Parker
is it wrong for others to want to be assured of a level playing field?
What do you want for all the clubs to have the same amount of sponsorship ? What Sporting gets through sponsorship has no bearing on other clubs and its up to them to get the best sponsorship possible for themselves.
That was not the point I raised. I was refering to those members on here and others asking questionsabout how the club is being funded. If there is nothing to hide there is nothing to fear.
passerrby
01/01/2010, 12:52 PM
In my own fin svcs related job, everyone is required under legislation to do an anti-money laundering / bribery / business ethics CBT training course and exam every year. I cant find the exact reference on the web, but this course mentions how paying over the odds for something can be a form of bribery or curruption. E.g. some company looking to do business in some dodgy african state might pay the presidents cousins firm a large sum of money for say some basic security services.
I wonder what the going rate to be a secondary sponsor for a first division team is as compared with a six figure suggested by someone earlier in this thread?!
bhs
so lets get this right fingal is in fact a small but dodgy african state and mr gannon is using the anglo to prop up these evil dictators. bloody hutos are all the same
dcfcsteve
01/01/2010, 1:14 PM
Its still a non story. Its the same old anti-Sporting Fingal heads scrapping the barrel to have a pop and trying to make something out of nothing .
Its good to see the begrudgery still in play with some fans of the other clubs.
At this rate, it looks like Sporting Fingal will dominate the boards next season as you would rather talk about us than talk about your own little clubs. Nothing much to talk about at home so you think of something trivial or something un-original to post .
Lads/Ladies, at least wait until a proper juicey story pops up and the fai gets involved before exaggerating what was said in a council meeting .
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
:D
And the award for 'most defensive post of the year' goes to.... :rolleyes:
Hell - you can even have the prize for 2010 as well.
peadar1987
01/01/2010, 1:23 PM
so lets get this right fingal is in fact a small but dodgy african state and mr gannon is using the anglo to prop up these evil dictators. bloody hutos are all the same
You forgot to mention the reverse vampires!
You're an embarrassment to the other Fingal fan.
Classic!
Lamper.sffc
01/01/2010, 4:38 PM
Jessus lads will yous chill the beans a little. He is defending the club thats all.
Like a pack of dogs sometimes in here.
passerrby
01/01/2010, 7:27 PM
Jessus lads will yous chill the beans a little. He is defending the club thats all.
Like a pack of dogs sometimes in here.
ya smelling the blood of a wounded animal
Buile Shuibhne
03/01/2010, 7:26 PM
Mods:
Maybe this could be a separate thread - but just developing the Franchise topic on slightly - feel free to move if necessary?
Where are Franchise going to play next season in the Prem Div.
The first and only two years in their existence - Fingal Co Co have situated them in Morton. It's nowhere close to qualifying for a Prem Div licence.
They're going to have to rent another existing Dublin LoI Prem Div Licenced ground with Tolka, Dalyer & Inchicore the obvious candidates.
Given that the majority of their home support in Morton was made up of freebies bused in from areas like Swords, will they even maintain the same numbers if they continue to issue free tickets and transport to grounds not in County Fingal?
Never mind can Fingal Co Co, Gerry Gannon et al, afford to susidise it?
They brought only 70 odd paying supporters to an away game in Tolka last season - hardly encouraging?
BohsFans
03/01/2010, 7:30 PM
Mods:
Maybe this could be a separate thread - but just developing the Franchise topic on slightly - feel free to move if necessary?
Where are Franchise going to play next season in the Prem Div.
The first and only two years in their existence - Fingal Co Co have situated them in Morton. It's nowhere close to qualifying for a Prem Div licence.
They're going to have to rent another existing Dublin LoI Prem Div Licenced ground with Tolka, Dalyer & Inchicore the obvious candidates.
Given that the majority of their home support in Morton was made up of freebies bused in from areas like Swords, will they even maintain the same numbers if they continue to issue free tickets and transport to grounds not in County Fingal?
Never mind can Fingal Co Co, Gerry Gannon et al, afford to susidise it?
They brought only 70 odd paying supporters to an away game in Tolka last season - hardly encouraging?
No they won't have to move. Does United Park fit Premier standards? No.
The council are moving them to a purpose built facility in Lusk soon.
tiktok
03/01/2010, 7:35 PM
No they won't have to move. Does United Park fit Premier standards?
So they're going to apply for a derogation based on their plans to move to a custom built stadium in the near future. In that case I'm no longer concerned for them, that's foolproof, nothing could go wrong!
dcfcsteve
04/01/2010, 12:23 AM
Like a pack of dogs sometimes in here.
And dogs chase foxes, don't they.....? :)
OneRedArmy
04/01/2010, 11:30 AM
this course mentions how paying over the odds for something can be a form of bribery or curruption.In that case over half the country would be locked up....
peadar1987
04/01/2010, 12:16 PM
The council are moving them to a purpose built facility in Lusk soon.
How soon? Has there actually been any definite move on this yet, because all I've heard are rumours
Has there actually been any definite move on this yet, because all I've heard are rumours
Lob in a meaningless planning application that has no chance of success, the FAI are happy.
Longfordian
04/01/2010, 2:34 PM
I understand Shels fans paranoia to some extent, but I'm not sure what the rest of the posters issue is? That Anglo are state owned? That Gannon used leverage to get a good deal for his club? That they are tied in with Fingal CC? I don't see SF as being sustainable and the current arrangement is on its last lets, but there are some serious allegations being posted here.....
Personally, I'm struggling to believe Gerry Gannon's motives are entirely altruistic and that he'd be prepared to put in hundreds of thousands a year and convince Anglo to also put in a signficiant amount for no apparent reward. It just seems odd to me. He'd never shown any great love for football before.
Longfordian
04/01/2010, 5:08 PM
I'm pretty sure he's never put in the colour of what he has put into Sporting Fingal though I stand to be corrected. Kelleher was or is a Pats fan and Wallace had been running an underage setup for years and in fact seems to value that more than the success of the LOI team. I guess I'm just cynical about the levels of money being put in, the council involvement and that of Anglo and a favoured property developer. The levels of money just seem unnecessarily high from all parties. At the end of the day it's just a personal opinion.
Buile Shuibhne
04/01/2010, 6:55 PM
Simply that the 'crimes' Fingal have committed here are similar to that of many clubs, yours incuded, who play in council owned facilities and had dealings with builders.
Tolka Park is not council owned in the sense you infer. The ground or site is leased out from DCC, but effectively the owner of the long-term lease (99 years) owns the site and the structures on it.
I'm not sure you understand how leasehold works?
The Lep
04/01/2010, 8:05 PM
Mods:
Maybe this could be a separate thread - but just developing the Franchise topic on slightly - feel free to move if necessary?
Where are Franchise going to play next season in the Prem Div.
The first and only two years in their existence - Fingal Co Co have situated them in Morton. It's nowhere close to qualifying for a Prem Div licence.
They're going to have to rent another existing Dublin LoI Prem Div Licenced ground with Tolka, Dalyer & Inchicore the obvious candidates.
Given that the majority of their home support in Morton was made up of freebies bused in from areas like Swords, will they even maintain the same numbers if they continue to issue free tickets and transport to grounds not in County Fingal?
Never mind can Fingal Co Co, Gerry Gannon et al, afford to susidise it?
They brought only 70 odd paying supporters to an away game in Tolka last season - hardly encouraging?
" Given that the majority of their home support in Morton was made up of freebies bused in from areas like Swords"
What are you on about? You are either i'll informed or making it up.
LeixlipRed
05/01/2010, 4:14 PM
He's on about the fact you have no fans. I really hope you're in Tolka next year, we get the rent and you get no paying customers. Perfect really.
Longfordian
05/01/2010, 4:39 PM
In terms of an asset Shels lease is/was a lot more valuable than DCC's freehold in fairness. Well, depending on how the long the lease is, but in general anything with over 70 years left on it is considered good title and is much more saleable than the freehold ownership.
dcfcsteve
05/01/2010, 5:17 PM
So how long does a lease have to be for the tenent to own the place and not the landlord?
Rubbish. DCC own the place and you sold the leasehold on. The only difference between your arrangement and Rovers, Waterford and Fingal is the length of the lease.
No harm to yee BYCTWD, but you don't understand leases and property law.
Longfordian's response is spot on. If anything he's being generous on the time left on a lease for it to be considered 'good title' - 70yrs is usually good title for residential property, with commercial time-scales being shorter (a lot of commercial stuff is only built with a c. 30yr life-span in mind anyway, for example).
How much good title is left in Shels' lease would therefore be influenced by what the land is zoned for, but bottom line is that so long as the majority of the lease remains to be fulfilled the club's lease on the land has way more value than the council's freehold on it.
Hairy Bowsie
05/01/2010, 5:44 PM
he seems genuine
Brilliant :D
You've came on here and had a very good account of yourself, You appeared to have a brain and an idea of what you were talking about up until now that is. Undone by 3 words.
Schumi
05/01/2010, 6:38 PM
So how long does a lease have to be for the tenent to own the place and not the landlord?
Rubbish. DCC own the place and you sold the leasehold on. The only difference between your arrangement and Rovers, Waterford and Fingal is the length of the lease.
DCC don't have any input into what goes on in Tolka day-to-day. If a team wants to rent Tolka for a cup game, they ask Shels and pay Shels for it. This isn't the case for Waterford, Rovers or Fingal.
Buile Shuibhne
05/01/2010, 7:03 PM
DCC don't have any input into what goes on in Tolka day-to-day. If a team wants to rent Tolka for a cup game, they ask Shels and pay Shels for it. This isn't the case for Waterford, Rovers or Fingal.
Spot on - while Rovers were still homeless and renting Tolka Park, they paid the rent money to Shels.
For the recent IRFU Ireland 'A' international match that was played in Tallaght Stadium, the IRFU paid the rent fee to South Dublin County Council.
The Lep
05/01/2010, 8:13 PM
He's on about the fact you have no fans. I really hope you're in Tolka next year, we get the rent and you get no paying customers. Perfect really.
No fans ? really? thats a new one , first i heard that one.
Just to put you in the picture, we are playing in Morton this year in the premier :D
Fingal Fan
06/01/2010, 4:11 PM
Originally Posted by LeixlipRed http://foot.ie/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?p=1300433#post1300433)
He's on about the fact you have no fans. I really hope you're in Tolka next year, we get the rent and you get no paying customers. Perfect really.
Building a support base from scratch takes time but progress is being made . Premier side now which will help . We are certainly upsetting the fans of other clubs for some reason .
No fans ? really? thats a new one , first i heard that one.
you are a figment of your own imagination.
LeixlipRed
06/01/2010, 4:25 PM
Still not comprehending.
Longfordian
06/01/2010, 4:28 PM
They don't really though, it's just a mechanism that's very common with large tracts of land in Dublin. The ultimate freehold owner is the Council but they don't have any of the benefits of it. I believe they leased it out to the Donnelly family who then sublet it to Shels on a long lease. DCC just receive what's known as a ground rent to the best of my knowledge which is basically just a very nominal amount and their interest can be bought out under a set formula. There's no landlord/tenant relationship.
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