Anyone else finding it hard to give a damn about the sport since the incident?

[Murfinator]

Maybe this sounds a bit silly but I feel like my passion for the sport has been drained entirely since the Henry incident and the kind of response that FIFA gave to it. It reminds me a bit of how I felt about christmas after I learned the truth about Santa Claus as a kid and how the magic was sucked out of the event. :rolleyes:
Or how I felt about the WWF when it finally tweaked in my mind that it was all actors and staged drama, nothing about it being genuine.

When I look at soccer now I've found myself looking at it much more cynically. Thinking of it as being far removed from the competitive sport the ancient greeks popularised about honour and pride and more about commercial entertainment. And the integrity of the game, wow. I don't know of any other sport where the head of the game would come out and admit he cheated as a child and most other players agreeing along the lines that they'd cheat whenever and wherever they could if they could get away with it. They aren't schoolkids here and part of the idea of sport is to be taught that it isn't all about winning at any cost and I guess I'm feeling disillusioned with it lately.

Anyone else feel the same or is it just me? :D

[irishfan86]

I definitely took it hard in the days following the game, and am still bitter about the whole thing.

I was totally disinterested in the first round of Premier League games following the incident, but now I've come around a bit and watched a couple of games this weekend.

I love the sport too much to fall out of love with it completely, but you could say we "took a break" for a while following some inappropriate ball fondling.

[osarusan]

I love it as much as ever.

[dan o d]

finding it harder to watch on tv, but my desire to actually play the game has probably gone up since we were knocked out

[back of the net]

Still love the game but am very bitter bout the whole henry incident. Fair play to ppl who can move on but not everyone can so quickly unfortunately.

Watching Blatter,Platini and their croonies smug faces everyday on TV,Newspapers or internet is not helping.

The tears of the players as they came over to us at the end of the game will be etched in my mind for a long time. Its just knowing that the team,fans and coaching staff deserved so much better but yet all FIFA can do is laugh....just makes me so angry.

As they say "Time is a healer" and im sure that will be true with regards to this incident. For the moment however i will wallow in my bitterness over the whole incident.

But once February comes around and the draw for the euro 2012 happens im sure normality will be somewhat restored and we will all be looking forward to a fantastic euro 2012 campaign and hopefully ceased with looking back.


COME ON YOU BOYS IN GREEN

[Deckydee]

TBH - Finding it very hard. It has cut to the bone

[Drumcondra 69er]

Yep, not even been posting on topics anywhere near as much as before, still very bitter and the fall out and especially last week between the FAI being dimmer then I thought possible (and that's coming from very low expectations), Blatter's behaviour and the draw has just keep the wound festering.

[bennocelt]

No way, since I have seen this kind of thing happen all the time in the game, its part and parcel of it - from Eoin hand, Maradona's handball, Shumacher, various cheating Italian teams, FC Porto, etc etc etc
It does happen a lot in "soccer"

[gustavo]

Gavin Peers signed a new contract so No

[Crosby87]

[QUOTE=Murfinator;1289447 :rolleyes:
Or how I felt about the WWF when it finally tweaked in my mind that it was all actors and staged drama, nothing about it being genuine.
[/QUOTE]

Thats actually a huge pet peeve of mine. Those guys are amazing athletes. Nothing is genuine? They are really lifting each other up, pounding on each other, doing flips, etc...jumping from the top rope onto a wooden table (even if it is particle board) which crashes onto the concrete floor HURTS. Thye have to lift up 350 pound men. Over and over. Then throw them. They get crazy injuries all the time. I think they are way more real athletes than most people in other sports actually! They certainly do more long term damage to their bodies than almost anyone in any sport. Jessie Ventura was a Navy Seal, Kurt Angle is one of the most decorated wrestlers in world history, The Rock played D-1 football for Miami. None of them are actors.

[osarusan]

Thats actually a huge pet peeve of mine. Those guys are amazing athletes. Nothing is genuine? They are really lifting each other up, pounding on each other, doing flips, etc...jumping from the top rope onto a wooden table (even if it is particle board) which crashes onto the concrete floor HURTS. Thye have to lift up 350 pound men. Over and over. Then throw them. They get crazy injuries all the time. I think they are way more real athletes than most people in other sports actually! They certainly do more long term damage to their bodies than almost anyone in any sport. Jessie Ventura was a Navy Seal, Kurt Angle is one of the most decorated wrestlers in world history, The Rock played D-1 football for Miami. None of them are actors.

Thy may be amazing athletes, but I don't think anything where the outcome of a match is pre-determined as a matter of course can be considered sport. (cue a few posts about FIFa pre-determining a French victory etc)

[Straightstory]

Unless you 'follow' Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Celtic meaninglessly from your armchair/barstool, football is mostly disappointment with very rare moments of ecstasy (which make all the heartbreak worthwhile).
You'll get over it.

[tiktok]

None of them are actors.

They're all actors, it's entertainment. No one questions that they put themselves through a lot, but it's staged and it's choreographed movement, they're closer to a dance troupe than they are to sportsmen and women.

Daniel Day lewis trained as a boxer for months before making 'The Boxer', but he's not claiming he's a sportsman just because of the physical effort put in and the talent displayed during choreographed scenes played out for entertainment.

Anyway, to the thread topic, I was already well on "disillusionment road" due to repeated problems with my club and the domestic league; if anything I'd become numb to the kind of political shenanigans on display in recent weeks. I've always known Blatter was a moron. To sum up, the last few weeks have only confirmed what I've been feeling for a while, maybe that's why my outrage hasn't been to the levels of some, I'm just de-sensitised[sp?] to it all at this stage.

[Gather round]

Good points tiktok. But while agreeing Blatter's a nasty piece of work, he's not moronic.

Just for the record, I didn't stop liking football when NI went two years without scoring a goal in 2002 and 2003.

[bwagner]

For me at 28 it was a real eye opener and a wake up call to the way in which Fifa operate. I am finding myself being pushed more in favour of Rugby.

However no mattter all the in -justices that have been and will continue to happen against us and other smaller nations I will never stop loving this Irish team.

We have a exciting year in prospect dispite the world cup matter -

Trap and co are still on board
Euro draw.
Argentina game
New venue opening.
Possible Brazil game ( they will be far more up for it this time with it being a world cup year)
Other friendies and a possible invite to a tournament.
Players like Gibson, Wilson, Coleman,Mc Cann, Dixon, Fahey,Ward, Foley, Yeates getting more involved with us and there clubs.

Possible call ups for players like O'Hara or Naughton, maybe Shane Duffy.

Lawernece and St Ledger getting more game time at this level..





Its not all doom and gloom

[Park_Lane]

Jessie Ventura was a Navy Seal, Kurt Angle is one of the most decorated wrestlers in world history, The Rock played D-1 football for Miami. None of them are actors.


Actually The Rock is an actor. Although not a very good one!;)

[Ciaran W]

Seamus coleman for the ireland team :D

[jbyrne]

Players like Gibson, Wilson, Coleman,Mc Cann, Dixon, Fahey,Ward, Foley, Yeates getting more involved with us and there clubs.

Possible call ups for players like O'Hara or Naughton, maybe Shane Duffy.

Lawernece and St Ledger getting more game time at this level..





Its not all doom and gloom

its the great form of many of our players coupled with new players coming through that adds to my frustration that we are not going to the WC

[Wolfie]

It was all very tough to take - and while we've had bitter disappointment before - the sheer injustice of the goal was particularly agonising.

It will be difficult - but the team and support will have to decide to use the manner of our defeat to spur us on for 2012. Use it as our motivation to succeed, so to speak.

It's an understatement, but I'm gutted we won't be there.

Yet, I was gutted in '88 when Vim Kieft headed us out, Schillachi in 90, Linekar's late goal against the Poles in '91, Anfield in 95, Belgium in 97, Macedonia in 99, Turkey in 99.

Bitter disappointment and sometimes disillusionment are nothing new.

I thinks its important that both team and support resolve to get over this and return even more determined than before.

[superfrank]

Nope. Football is still football.

The ref's mistake in Paris is nothing new in football and people realising how rotten FIFA is are hardly the first to say it.

[Greenbod]

It reminds me a bit of how I felt about christmas after I learned the truth about Santa Claus :D


What are you trying to say?...........did I miss a news story?

[paul_oshea]

Haha good one greenbod.

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.

Ill get over it, but i hope the team go out with the intention of beating every team in the qualifying for euros, as they proved against france they can do this. We will hopefully be a couple of players stronger again come the euros, with no retirements so hopefully we should do well.

I see mcgeady becoming less and less involved with the team in the future though, unless he leaves celtic, now that lawrence has surfaced.

[Ronan85]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.


Fully agree with this Paul. The ones who care most are the ones most likely to be hurting the most.

[osarusan]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.

Fully disagree with this Paul. The level of support for the national team can't be judged by the objectivity with which people respond to this kind of situation.

It's impossible to gauge depth of support by reaction. The guy who goes out and watches EPL at the weekend (like Tetsujin did) may just deal with their anger / disappointment in a different way to the person who can't even watch football for a month.

[paul_oshea]

The closer you are to a situation, generally, the harder you are impacted by that outcome of that situation.

[superfrank]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.
Ah yes, this old chestnut. :rolleyes:

What's wrong with being familiar with the game and being aware that referees make the wrong decisions every now and again and that players are dishonest and will get away with it if they can (anyone see Hreidarsson at the weekend?)?

This is not unpatriotic, it's familiarity with the game and accepting that some times those decisions will go against your team over the course of your lifetime.

The defeat hurt and the manner especially and I am still disappointed that we won't be at the WC when we put in such a great effort.

However, the end result is still the same: we're not going. Those who hurt but can accept the decision and move on are equally as patriotic as those who hurt and are disillussioned with the game. The only difference between the two is their personalities.

[donalmcdonagh]

Maybe this sounds a bit silly but I feel like my passion for the sport has been drained entirely since the Henry incident and the kind of response that FIFA gave to it. It reminds me a bit of how I felt about christmas after I learned the truth about Santa Claus as a kid and how the magic was sucked out of the event. :rolleyes:
Or how I felt about the WWF when it finally tweaked in my mind that it was all actors and staged drama, nothing about it being genuine.

When I look at soccer now I've found myself looking at it much more cynically. Thinking of it as being far removed from the competitive sport the ancient greeks popularised about honour and pride and more about commercial entertainment. And the integrity of the game, wow. I don't know of any other sport where the head of the game would come out and admit he cheated as a child and most other players agreeing along the lines that they'd cheat whenever and wherever they could if they could get away with it. They aren't schoolkids here and part of the idea of sport is to be taught that it isn't all about winning at any cost and I guess I'm feeling disillusioned with it lately.

Anyone else feel the same or is it just me? :D



I feel exactlly the same...very annoying.
Football can be very cruel...but I think we should learn from what Richard Dunne has to say...he has forgotten about it, forgotten about the world cup. It is of no consequence to him. Im hoping this whole episode will give us some ruthlessness. We dont have it, but I feel that is what our game is missing. Im sorry to say tis but we should have finished France off long before there goal.
I think the exit to the hand ball shoul dteach us a lesson to be more ruthless and kill teams off, i'd imagine a lot of the players are immensley angry

[eaststand85]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.


If this isn't a wind up then it has to be the most patronising and/or delusional post I have ever read on this forum. Get over yourself.

[tiktok]

Good points tiktok. But while agreeing Blatter's a nasty piece of work, he's not moronic.
True, he's actually a master at what he does, I just hate what he does.


I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.
What a patronising load of old horse manure.

[back of the net]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.

.


I wouldnt really agree with that Paul. The way i look at it is that every1 has their own of dealing with certain injustices.

I am one of the fans who is quite resentful at what happened and i will wallow on this until the euro2012 campaign kicks off and we all get back on the one road again. However i dont believe that makes me any more closer to the team than lets say a fan who is willing to put it behind him and move on due to maybe experiencing certain injustices/dissapointments with their club.

As per my signature "my country is my club" , and although i am used to many a dissappointment when it comes to following ireland and previously was well aware of the previous injustices in football and of those carried out by FIFA , i equally dont agree with other posters telling me to "Just get on with it".......we are all football ppl on this site and love the game...but others have just different ways of dealing with this latest incident.

[carloz]

I was actually going to start a thread like this last week. My enjoyment of the game has been completly sucked out of me since that 'incident'. Just thinking that its nearly a year until our next competitive game makes me feel miserable. Next summer is going to be absolute torture, and seeing France doing well will make me angry beyond belief

[Murfinator]

Thats actually a huge pet peeve of mine. Those guys are amazing athletes. Nothing is genuine? They are really lifting each other up, pounding on each other, doing flips, etc...jumping from the top rope onto a wooden table (even if it is particle board) which crashes onto the concrete floor HURTS. Thye have to lift up 350 pound men. Over and over. Then throw them. They get crazy injuries all the time. I think they are way more real athletes than most people in other sports actually! They certainly do more long term damage to their bodies than almost anyone in any sport. Jessie Ventura was a Navy Seal, Kurt Angle is one of the most decorated wrestlers in world history, The Rock played D-1 football for Miami. None of them are actors.

I'm not saying they aren't athletes or don't work hard or fake their stunts or any of that. What I'm saying is the whole wrestling drama, the rivalries and the various cliques is all entirely fabricated for entertainment. The actual victor of a match is also pre-determined.
As a kid I was a big fan of Bret Hart and after his retirement and reading about the Montreal screwjob where he claims Vince McMahon rigged the title fight without his knowledge through instructing the ref to pin him out quicker than is fair and unknown to bret. I never really really looked at it the same way since, there was nothing better as a kid believing all those comic book villain wrestlers were unstaged and cheering on your hero to taking them down a peg or two. :p

[SkStu]

whats the World Wildlife Fund got to do with anything?

[paul_oshea]

Ya thats the one i use....i think you might have stole that line from me somewhere before skstu....:D

[Reality Bites]

Yes its a pain in the arse we didn't qualify and were cheated and ridiculed by FIFA, but the continuing emergence of Gibson, Wilson and Ward and barn storming debut of Coleman at Everton yesterday helps ease the pain, by the time the Euro qualifiers come around these lads will hopefully all will have more experience under the belt and will be pushing for first team action, add too that the raw but unproven talents ot Terry Dixon and James McCarthy...It really is the best of times and the worst of times for Irish supporters!!

[Greenbod]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1289642]Haha good one greenbod. [/
QUOTE]

Well you can't be too careful, there are small children who use this site you know. Speaking of which...............where is Emmet these days?

[Stuttgart88]

I'd love to be able to be as emotionally detached as you superfrank but I just can't.

It's like your old dog dying. The near-certainty that you'd survive the daft mutt when you got it and the fact that dogs just get old and die all the time doesn't mean that you don't get upset when it happens, and in particularly bad circumstances.

This weekend was a good one for Irish footballers in the UK so some cheer returned.

However, with regard to "switching" to rugby, I still can hardly envisage a situation where rugby can bring the sheer tension, drama and scale of what happened in this play-off. Even the fantastic Grand Slam win didn't touch those heights.

Anyway, as said above - there's some good on the horizon.

[SuperDave]

It's funny..... we've moved from the blaming others phase (the ref, fifa, blatter, henry) of grief to the blaming self stage (at least some on here have, blaming given, mcshane, duff, keane) and kind of onto the depression stage (not wanting to watch football at all, giving up on the concept of fair play). What strikes me is that there is little acceptance but some murmurs of looking forward etc.

This place would be a gold mine for psychologists over the last three weeks.

[Schumi]

Don't forget the denial phase: a replay, 33rd team, etc.

[bennocelt]

Haha good one greenbod.

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.
.

Dont worry Paul you have the gah on in the summer, and I know how much you like that game:p

[paul_oshea]

Not as much as you like the racing benno, not even close ;) :D

[SuperDave]

Don't forget the denial phase: a replay, 33rd team, etc.

Yeah we are long past that stage and most are past the anger as well (not all, right enough). The replay and 33rd team calls are part of the bargaining stage, which is kind of related to the blame of others stage, before the blame of self / depression stage.

It's not really all that clear cut and to some degree the stages model of grief handling has been discredited but it is clear there is some degree of movement from event ---> acceptance and not many of us have made the whole way to complete acceptance yet.

[paul_oshea]

Is this cancer related lads?! Or is that aids ;) ?! :D

[ger121]

I'm over it now and looking forward to the new LOI season. Where I can get my weekly football fix.

[Stuttgart88]

anyone see Hreidarsson at the weekend?Anyone see cheating diving cnut Steven Gerrard at it YET AGAIN this weekend in a piece of diving as calculated and crass as you'll ever see, and yet not a mention of it on TV, in the papers or anywhere?

[elroy]

Am still feeling the pain of it all, plus all the coverage of the WC draw and associated previews and qualifying campaign reviews (on the bbc site for example) make it all the worse. Not to mention the draw and the fact that we wouldve got a group we realistically could win and to go a step further, when you look at the teams likely to finish 2nd in group B.......oh god. :(

The hardest part is that we dont have any tangible to look forward till Feb, once we get the draw perhaps it'll be easier to move on then. For the moment we are just in a vacuum. Back to following the progress of our players with particular interest in the up and coming players eg Wilson, Coleman, Gibson and co in the last few weeks.

[paul_oshea]

YOu know someone said to me earlier on last week i think, that the world cup is crap,just look at the teams. He said winning or doing well in the euros is a far better acheivement given the teams and competitive nature of the groups. I am actually beleiving him at this stage. the african teams and the all the others bar brazil and argentina, possibly uruguay are nothing special. ITs a bloody joke that there are not more european teams at it.

[irishfan86]

I agree that team for team the Euros is a better tournament, but football will not improve worldwide if all corners of the globe are not given a fair representation at the World Cup. I mean from a selfish perspective I'd love for there to be more European spots, but having a tournament called the World Cup with half of the teams from Europe, it can be a bit of a joke.

[Riddickcule]

Yeah i fell like this sometimes, why do i bother? It's brought so much more pain than relief in my life, should i just quit?

Of course not.

[Mad Moose]

I think people who were harping on about get over it etc etc were quite objective but only because they aren't as close to the team as the rest of us/don't understand fully how much it means to the rest of us, possibly not as patriotic as the rest of us.


My god I have read some absolute rubbish on here since our exit from the World Cup Qualifying campaign and some of it, and some of the actions, undertaken in the name of Irish football have been embarrassing but this is getting no better. Just how self conceited is that statement?. Sorry Paul but you are no closer, nor were any closer, to the team than I or any of the 12,000 Irish fans were there that night, nor have you been closer since. Unless I'm missing something?. Perhaps you are or were Lee Carsley's hairstylist, Keane's confidant, the kit man, Trappatoni's personal aide or Paul McShane's brain. I'm just not sure how much football you actually see but let me tell you injustice and poor and costly decision making, rightly or wongly (sometimes, just sometimes it actually goes our way i.e we beat Georgia this way) is part of the fabric of the game. Perhaps its your first time to experience such pain but let me tell you in following football as long as I have done I've seen a hell of a lot more injustice and costly decision making. Yes I have seen Alan Kelly ref a game!!!

Now Henry's blatant cheating hurt that night but you know what its done and as patriotic as I am of been Irish I now smile and shrug it off. Some of it to hide embarrassment at where we actually decided we should take this. I listened in horror at the annoucement of a planned march (through the cyber anti-christ that is facebook!!!) on the French Embassy live on the Joe Duffy show (I usually do listen in horror to Joe's show). Nothing any of us can say or do will change anything. Boycotting coverage of the World Cup will not even register a blink of an eye nor will suffering a few more shaving sores in finding an alternative to Gillette. Lets move on and concentrate on the fact that we are back in decent shape in the world of International football.

I was disappointed that night but proud. Proud of what we had achieved. The fact we overturned a home defeat when the eyes of the world were upon us and went to Paris and beat them in normal time. Proud of the noise we made and the support we gave. I'm proud, despite the headache, of my contribution and I'm proud it meant so much, as it generally always does, to the players. I was as proud an Irishman the following day as I was the day of the game and I'm as proud n Irishman since. Life goes on and we have the next campaign to look forward to.

Sorry about the above and perhaps you do actually have a valid and justifiable reason to declare that your closer to the Irish team than the rest of us.