Given and Keane

[Fixer82]

What is the story here? Is there some sort of history or bad blood? Given mentioned in passing in today's Herald: 'maybe he has something against me'.
Always thought they got on but I remember Roy having a pop at him before for getting too many caps. He seems to be looking for excuses to have a go at Ireland's greatest ever keeper....:confused:

[EastTerracer]

What is the story here? Is there some sort of history or bad blood? Given mentioned in passing in today's Herald: 'maybe he has something against me'.
Always thought they got on but I remember Roy having a pop at him before for getting too many caps. He seems to be looking for excuses to have a go at Ireland's greatest ever keeper....:confused:

AFAIK they have not talked since Saipan. They never shook hands with each other when Newcastle played Manchester after 2002. When RK returned to the squad under Kerr I suspect Given was one of the senior players that needed some persuading.

There were a few rumours over the years that Fergie might try to sign Shay but that the presence of RK made that unlikely.

[dan o d]

it goes back to saipan doesnt it? remember keano having a go at the goalies and packie bonner for being too tired to participate in a training match

[Fixer82]

yeah but surely it's not still festering on after a training ground row. I remember Tom Humphries writing something about Shay playing a gift grub tape of Roy on the team bus and Roy getting a kick out of it. Led me to believe they got on

[centre mid]

Keane is just a bitter cnut, Given is a superb goalkeeper.

[rambler14]

This all goes back to Saipan and the incident on the traning ground with the 5 a side games and also Keane came out a few years ago and criticised the FAI and Given for his constant playing in friendlies and not giving other keepers a chance.

[tetsujin1979]

Supposed to be because the keepers didn't play in the games at training in Saipan. They had separate training sessions to the outfield players, and had already warmed down when the game at the end of training for the outfield players had started.
Keane lost the rag about this at the time, someone texted into Off The Ball this week about it when they asked the same question.

[geysir]

That must be all a load of nonsense as Roy does not hold grudges against players who stand up to him. He is a forgive and forget type guy who moves on in life.

[tetsujin1979]

That must be all a load of nonsense as Roy does not hold grudges against players who stand up to him. He is a forgive and forget type guy who moves on in life.
either you're taking the complete p!ss or you've never heard of Alf Inge Haaland

[tiktok]

Keane is just a bitter cnut, Given is a superb goalkeeper.

Comparing Keane's personality and Given's talent?
In the interest of fairness it's also true that Keane was a great footballer and anyway, Given is far from Mr.Nice.

[Stuttgart88]

either you're taking the complete p!ss or you've never heard of Alf Inge HaalandI think you missed the sarcasm Tets.

[bishbash]

Comparing Keane's personality and Given's talent?
In the interest of fairness it's also true that Keane was a great footballer and anyway, Given is far from Mr.Nice.
keane's ability will never be questioned as the greatest irish footballer. but to ay he has turned into a complete d*#k is an undertatement its gone to the stage that when he is being interviewed you turn the tv down. before people loved to hear what he has to say now all he does is say things to be controversial. i dont care if he and given punched the heads off each other all he is doing is embarrassing himself when he talks about given.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to Keane, hasn't he apologised or at least toned down his remarks since?

[irishultra]

Comparing Keane's personality and Given's talent?
In the interest of fairness it's also true that Keane was a great footballer and anyway, Given is far from Mr.Nice.

yeah he's a real jerk :mad: NOT

when i was 8 and living in belgium i wrote him a letter saying how he was my idol(i played goalie), about 2 months later i arrived home from school to see my mom waving a package addressed to me. in it was a personal letter from shay and a pair of gloves signed by him.

[Stuttgart88]

yeah he's a real jerk :mad: NOT

when i was 8 and living in belgium i wrote him a letter saying how he was my idol(i played goalie), about 2 months later i arrived home from school to see my mom waving a package addressed to me. in it was a personal letter from shay and a pair of gloves signed by him.

That's something else alright.

I know little about his private persona but by all accounts he was great with Irish students in Newcastle and his public persona is one of an intelligent, polite and measured individual.

[**FrOsTy**]

I'd tend to slightly agree with Keano.he

I'm no Roy Keane fan myself but he has a bit of a point.

I read an article in the paper the other day with Nicky Colgan and he was saying that Shay should step aside for the smaller friendlies and let the other lads have a chance becuase what happens if Shay get injured/suspended/retires we don't know what our backup is like and the back up won't be experienced.

[irishultra]

ah so shay given the irish soccer equivelent of Paul Levesque?

*any wrestling fans here :p *

[tiktok]

yeah he's a real jerk :mad: NOT

when i was 8 and living in belgium i wrote him a letter saying how he was my idol, about 2 months later i arrived home from school to see my mom waving a package addressed to me. in it was a personal letter from shay and a pair of gloves signed by him.

So what?
I know loads that have similar stories about Roy Keane.

Given is as driven and ruthless as they come. I've no particular problem with that, he's worked hard to get where he is, he's burned a few bridges on his way. But if this is going to turn into some good guy -v- bad guy nonsense comparing him to Keane, I'm not going to buy into 'butter wouldn't melt in his mouth' crap.

[jackaroo]

Can u give examples of Given burning peoples bridges before?

[Scram]

What is the story here? Is there some sort of history or bad blood? Given mentioned in passing in today's Herald: 'maybe he has something against me'.
Always thought they got on but I remember Roy having a pop at him before for getting too many caps. He seems to be looking for excuses to have a go at Ireland's greatest ever keeper....:confused:

You are looking for "reason" from an immature attention seeking meglomaniac like Keane? He is unbelievably bitter and twisted and I feel for his family.

Shay Given is his exact opposite, a genteleman, an Irish and Newcastle legend and hopefully more to come. Keane left EVERY job he had on bitter terms with either someone or everyone, probably more to come there as well!

[Closed Account 2]

Given led all the players over to the fans in Paris the other week and was the first to start throwing his shirt and gloves into the crowd. He is a superb leader of men and always gives 100% for the team irrespective of the opposition and the type of match (e.g. friendly). He genuinely cares about the future of the Irish team far beyond his career motivations.

[SkStu]

I'd tend to slightly agree with Keano.he

I'm no Roy Keane fan myself but he has a bit of a point.

I read an article in the paper the other day with Nicky Colgan and he was saying that Shay should step aside for the smaller friendlies and let the other lads have a chance becuase what happens if Shay get injured/suspended/retires we don't know what our backup is like and the back up won't be experienced.

Gerry Peyton played maybe 2 games during Packie Bonners tenure between the sticks. Then Alan Kelly sat on the bench for a good while before taking over the goalie jersey and distinguishing himself too. Brian Murphy or Westwood will step in when Shay goes - goalie is different to the rest of the positions.

Given is an irish legend and gentleman, Keane is just a bitter old woman who walked out on the country on the eve of what could have been our greatest hour.

[tetsujin1979]

I think you missed the sarcasm Tets.

Yeah, right!

[**FrOsTy**]

Gerry Peyton played maybe 2 games during Packie Bonners tenure between the sticks. Then Alan Kelly sat on the bench for a good while before taking over the goalie jersey and distinguishing himself too. Brian Murphy or Westwood will step in when Shay goes - goalie is different to the rest of the positions.

Given is an irish legend and gentleman, Keane is just a bitter old woman who walked out on the country on the eve of what could have been our greatest hour.

Not for one moment doubting that. Given is one of our greatest ever players and a fantastic role model for young players with his loyalty to his club/country before himself but I'm just saying it would be nice to see Westwood/Murphy starting a few lesser friendlies.

[Stuttgart88]

I read an article in the paper the other day with Nicky Colgan and he was saying that Shay should step aside for the smaller friendlies Nickly Colgan: one of the least deserving Irish caps of all time, in my opinion (ex-goalkeeper).

If you're blooding new caps further up the pitch it's only fair to them that you pick experienced players in the positions that matter. One of Stan's biggest failings in my opinion was playing newbies all over the place without due consideration to team balance / experience etc.

[Stuttgart88]

Not for one moment doubting that. Given is one of our greatest ever players and a fantastic role model for young players with his loyalty to his club/country before himself but I'm just saying it would be nice to see Westwood/Murphy starting a few lesser friendlies.Didn't Westwood play at least part of the Australia game and all of the Sth Africa game? Also half of the Nigerian game.

I think they were our last 3 friendlies.

Stan and Kerr played Kenny, J. Murphy, Colgan, Henderson and Doyle and none was anyhere near international standard. Not Shay's fault.

[Crosby87]

It all goes back to packie bonner and the caps thing

[Greenbod]

but I'm just saying it would be nice to see Westwood/Murphy starting a few lesser friendlies.

Might be nice, but it's nothing to do with Given. Manager's select. Given does what all players should do........when fit and selected he plays.

[Fixer82]

exactly. I'd want to play in every match i was called up for. Shay will be a long time retired! Best of luck to him!

[Superhoops]

Might be nice, but it's nothing to do with Given. Manager's select. Given does what all players should do........when fit and selected he plays.

And when Given (like Kibane) was selected he turned up every time, none of this injury bolloc*s when it was a friendly game and then miraculously recover by Saturday in time to play for Man.U.

Keane should have had over 100 caps and been Ireland's greatest player but he couldn't be arsed too many times.

[bishbash]

yeah Given wants to play for his country as much as possible. he is such an a*****e......

[EastTerracer]

Given is far from Mr.Nice.

Don't know where you're getting this from. Given is without doubt one of the nicest (and most committed) individuals I have come across in 30 years of going to Ireland games.

Keane was a fantastic footballer but, in terms of his commitment to and contribution to the International team, I would have Given and McGrath streets ahead of him.

[danonion]

Shay Given is a testament to his profession and his country.

Roy Keane left his second spell of international football with a whimper, it will be a truly sad and emotional night when Shay Given wins his last cap and finally hangs up his gloves.

[geysir]

If I was to read between the lines, the hunger for caps issue was about Kiely being (harshly?) cold shouldered for the friendly games. Keane was aware of it and typical of his cynicism he referred to it to try and portray Given in a poor light.
Keane used it first, afaia, when there were questions about him not turning up for friendlies and the comments became more barbed after Saipan.

[Murfinator]

I don't understand people who say "Given should step down" for smaller friendlies to give other people a chance, that's the managers decision to play him not his.

[geysir]

Keane's criticisms rarely endure even a superficial scrutiny.

It's the manager who picks the team.

[twoenz]

I don't understand people who say "Given should step down" for smaller friendlies to give other people a chance, that's the managers decision to play him not his.

And the same fans complain when the stadium isn't full because the team's full of players that Johnny Barstool has never heard of. You can't have it both ways.

[Herr Dots]

I would say Saipan is a factor but the main reason I would say Roy has it in for Shay is because of the lack of ambition he showed to get away from Newcastle and on the back of this the fact that he is into his 30s and still doesn't have a single medal to his name. In Roy's world I would say he would see Given as a failure.

On a tangent point, I think its fair to criticise Keane but it should be remembered his performances in the qualifying campaign for the 2002 WC were the best ever produced by an Irish international.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Don't know where you're getting this from. Given is without doubt one of the nicest (and most committed) individuals I have come across in 30 years of going to Ireland games.

Keane was a fantastic footballer but, in terms of his commitment to and contribution to the International team, I would have Given and McGrath streets ahead of him.

Couldn't agree more, I've been fortunate eneough to meet Given a couple of times and he was been totally bang on, always comes across as a well rounded down to earth individual in the mdeia as well who appreciates the position he has.

Where are these examples of him 'burning bridges' and being far from 'Mr. Nice' Tiktok?

[paul_oshea]

There aren't any, its tiktok with his red cork tinted glasses.

[razor]

Keane is just a bitter cnut, Given is a superb goalkeeper.Try comparing like with like.

There aren't any, its tiktok with his red cork tinted glasses.We're not taking any responsibility for him, he's from Kerry.

[geysir]

Could it be that Tiktok has been afflicted with that rare Kerry disease, a reverence of things Cork?

Tiktok, it's time to stop loathing yourself and accept what you are, a Kerryman - a person whose false sense of self depreciation masks a huge superiority complex.

[twoenz]

A Kerryman loving Cork?

That's a bit like Dave Chapelle's sketch about the black KKK leader.

[irishfan86]

Couldn't agree more, I've been fortunate eneough to meet Given a couple of times and he was been totally bang on, always comes across as a well rounded down to earth individual in the mdeia as well who appreciates the position he has.

Where are these examples of him 'burning bridges' and being far from 'Mr. Nice' Tiktok?

I think he's just talking about his competitive nature. A lot of people think that because he stayed at Newcastle for so long that he isn't a very competitive person.

The reality is that he never tolerates not playing, even in a friendly, because of a (healthy) fear of losing his spot. A perfect example of this was his handing in of a transfer request shortly following a return from injury, only to be left on the bench for multiple games.

You could say he's a nice guy, but that he's probably not too good at helping along other goalkeepers....he doesn't want to help them, he is obsessed and possessive about his starting role, which is fine by me.

[paul_oshea]

A Kerryman loving Cork?

That's a bit like Dave Chapelle's sketch about the black KKK leader.

Cocaine is one hell of a drug. Thats a great sketch the blind black fella who hates ******* :D

[EastTerracer]

On a tangent point, I think its fair to criticise Keane but it should be remembered his performances in the qualifying campaign for the 2002 WC were the best ever produced by an Irish international.

Some of Roy Keane's performances were immense during that qualification campaign but, personally, I think it's taking things too far to say they were the best ever by an Irish international. Personally I think his best single game was the home game with Portugal but ultimately in that game the entire midfield fell so deep that Portugal had us on the rack before scoring the equaliser. His performance at home against Holland and away in Cyprus were the other critical ones in that campaign where he really stood out but there were many other players who played out of their skins (possibly above themselves) in that campaign. You could argue that without Ian Harte's set-pieces we would not have qualified.

If you look back to the 1990 qualification campaign I would argue that McGrath was consistently brilliant during those games and there were many games where he didn't put a foot wrong (despite playing out of position in central midfield). However, we only qualified because of the efforts of the entire squad working together (thinking of Houghton, Moran, Sheedy, Townsend and others).