League structures below the first team, any news?

[Sam_Heggy]

Has anyone heard whether the A league will be continued next season or not? There has been rumours of it being "done away with" but nothing confirming either way as of yet.

Also the Under 20 League: Some are saying that it will be changed to Under 19's for next season but the same 4 group format.
Personally that's a load of sh!te and Packie Bonner needs to get the finger out and re-structure the underage system for senior clubs.
12 games in 12 months is not enough for a young player, you need a minimum of 25-30 games to offer.

I know a few clubs have asked for a national under 18 league but again the is nothing coming from the FAI on this.

Sorry for doing an IorfaJim on it folks.

[brendy_éire]

Has anyone heard whether the A league will be continued next season or not? There has been rumours of it being "done away with" but nothing confirming either way as of yet.

Nothing concrete yet, but I'd guess it's gone.
I doubt the FAI would be more or less promising us First Division football next season if the A Championship was still to exist. They'd have a host of A Championship clubs asking why we're being allowed to jump the 'queue'.

[passerrby]

nothing will be changing , and why would it with everything going swimmingly ,gates up ,debt down sure isnt it great.
at least thats the impression from planet abbotstown

[dcfcsteve]

I wonder why they'd look to get rid of it so early though.

What did clubs/fans think of it ? Was it deemed useful/a success ?

I wouldn't be surprised if the fact the A'League has teed-up two tiny Galway clubs to join senior football has put them off the whole thing now. That's the downside of a pyramid structure - you lose the ability to pick and choose new entrants 'strategically'.

[Mr A]

The FAI should be expanding structures below the first team, not reducing them. Maybe the clubs don't like it, but it's for their own good.

[GUFCghost]

Has anyone heard whether the A league will be continued next season or not? There has been rumours of it being "done away with" but nothing confirming either way as of yet.

Also the Under 20 League: Some are saying that it will be changed to Under 19's for next season but the same 4 group format.
Personally that's a load of sh!te and Packie Bonner needs to get the finger out and re-structure the underage system for senior clubs.
12 games in 12 months is not enough for a young player, you need a minimum of 25-30 games to offer.

I know a few clubs have asked for a national under 18 league but again the is nothing coming from the FAI on this.

Sorry for doing an IorfaJim on it folks.
I play under age soccer(not the league of Ireland or any other youth system)
and i play more games 12 a year id say its something like 25 per year,Id complain if there was only 12 per year!!

[pineapple stu]

What did clubs/fans think of it ? Was it deemed useful/a success ?
We lost most of our first team after relegation but also won the A League the same year. Most of that A League team played in the First Division, and we bounced back to win the league immediately.

Anyone who wants the A League (or any manner of reserve league) gone is nuts. Many clubs don't take it seriously, but that doesn't mean it should go. Pure short-termism if it gets cut.

[Riddickcule]

I think we should have a national reserve league for all Loi clubs and for it to be seperate from the Youth League, also i would be in favour of bringing it down to U19

[culloty82]

No comments in any of the Kerry papers about any changes, Tralee are operating on the basis that there will be an A league in 2010. I'd say all the first teams would call it a success, in that beforehand the LoI was seen as a closed shop, and I'm not sure most teams could have afforded going senior if the decision had been to expand the First Division immediately.

[gufcfan]

Anyone who wants the A League (or any manner of reserve league) gone is nuts. Many clubs don't take it seriously, but that doesn't mean it should go. Pure short-termism if it gets cut.
I agree. Most clubs can't or don't want to see past their immediate future. Not having an under-age structure at Galway United has had a small part in a declining "hardcore" at the club. They seem like they are pretty unrelated, but the sense of community brought by a youth structure is hard to understate. Players, coaches, parents. The idea of being a club belonging to the community has long been lost.

I feel sorry for Nick Leeson, but the reality is, calling us a community club is a joke. I was never a much a player as a young lad, but I always saw the Galway United under-age as something to aspire to. It seemed natural to me that a young player should look to be playing for a youth team within a League of Ireland club. It will soon be 10 years since such a thing was possible at Galway. I think that Mervue has no place in the league and that they will never be able to attract any sort of a crowd, but I have to concede that they will always have a community feel to the club, even if it never translates into attendances.


I think we should have a national reserve league for all Loi clubs and for it to be seperate from the Youth League, also i would be in favour of bringing it down to U19There might be opposition to that, but I think that clubs have to be forced into these things for their own good.

I've mentioned it on here before, but I think that clubs should be forced to have an under-age structure. No club should be permitted to affiliated with a junior club's youth team for convenience's sake either.

[pineapple stu]

I think that clubs should be forced to have an under-age structure.
I agree with that in principle, although you're looking at a lot of extra volunteers to keep such a set-up going. I'm sure there's some clubs who'd struggle with it. I know we would (and we have five or six teams all told already).

[Mr A]

The problem is that at the moment it can be very hard for a senior club (outside of Dublin anyway) to have a proper youth set up. The local leagues don't want the big fish hoovering up the best players and winning everything, so it's hard for the clubs to find outlets for their young players. Without improved LOI structures at youth level its difficult for senior clubs to really advance themselves on the youth front.

[Sam_Heggy]

I don't think Harps would have been able to field a side at times during the 2009 season had it not been for the A League.
We started the season with a few experienced players and a good few from the 2008 A League squad. As the season wore on we lost the experienced players, (Mukendi, Cullen, etc) loan signings Harkin and McDaid, Sean Houstan to UCD and had a hell of alot of injuries so, we had to dip into the 2009 A league squad. By the seasons end we were using players (5) from the Under 20 suqad just to fulfill the fixtures.

This season again we will be looking to start from scratch in the A League and Under 20/19's with the other lads having either proven their worth to be in the first team or others simply shown the door.

It's possitive that we can build an all local side that, hopefully, this season will be able to challenge for promotion. If it wasn't for the A League I doubt very much we could do that.

[gufcfan]

I agree with that in principle, although you're looking at a lot of extra volunteers to keep such a set-up going. I'm sure there's some clubs who'd struggle with it. I know we would (and we have five or six teams all told already).I know there has to be a lot of volunteer involvement, but we aren't talking about setting up a massive operation. Granted, a lot of work goes into youth teams, but a minimum of perhaps 3 or 4 youth teams outside of the A Champ and U20 teams is achievable. Perhaps u11, u13, u15, u18. The vast majority will never get near the u-20's or A Championship teams, but what you will have is a steady stream, every year, of young people who have an attachment to the club.

It isn't the sort of thing that pops up overnight, but if a core of people work hard at it, it can turn into something that draws in others, namely parents of children.

It's great to see kids from the youth teams getting a run out against each other in LOI grounds around the country when I get the chance to travel to away games. It's something that United do, but we have to invite kids from other clubs, as we obviously have no youth players of our own.


The local leagues don't want the big fish hoovering up the best players and winning everything, so it's hard for the clubs to find outlets for their young players.I agree with you to a point, but it isn't a league's place to dictate who plays in it. From what I know of clubs in Galway, they tend to be very clannish and would only really resist this sort of thing happening out of self interest.


Without improved LOI structures at youth level its difficult for senior clubs to really advance themselves on the youth front.I don't think that more structures at youth level on a national scale are really the answer. The best players at any age group would benefit from playing against the best in the country, but I don't think it's viable. Perhaps regional leagues at u17 or u18 level, but it would be too much if it were expanded to younger age groups as well.

Clubs need to extend their reach on a local level. "Hoovering up the best talent" isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having the best players alongside each other is mutually beneficial for all concerned.


It's positive that we can build an all local side that, hopefully, this season will be able to challenge for promotion. If it wasn't for the A League I doubt very much we could do that.I can see us dipping into our A league squad for next season quite a bit, as relatively weak as it is...

[Sam_Heggy]

I can see us dipping into our A league squad for next season quite a bit, as relatively weak as it is...

I think this is where the 3 teams in Galway will really hurt each other.
Salthill, Mervue and Galway are all so close that they are basically going to be chasing the same players.
This is where you really need a crafty and experienced local manager at A League level. Someone who is about the local leagues and is respected amoungst the local players. He doesn't nessicarily need to be experienced at LOI level.
Otherwise, I can see Galway United becoming a serious Casualty. Mervue and Salthill already have their underage sussed, have always played locally and still do.

[gufc2000]

I can see us dipping into our A league squad for next season quite a bit, as relatively weak as it is...
We have an A squad? :rolleyes:.

I hope next year that we will have a system in place where the management team is capable of managing the U-20 side, and capable of playing matches

[Dillonman]

Put it this way, it wouldnt be the FAI to ill-inform both clubs and fans alike even with a week to go to a kick off regarding their plans for the new season.

[total hoofball]

I think the A League and under 20 league should be merged

Many A League teams are made up of 18-22 year olds anyway

maybe have a new A League with an age restriction for under 23's with a maximum of 3 overage players, similar to the olympics

no offence to the current under 20 league but if 18/19 year old lads can't hack it against lads a few years older than them they don't have a chance of surviving in LOI Premier or First

[CF1989]

why not freshen it up, dont regionalise it. there should also be a cup competition aswell, not just the league. we had 10 games spaced out over 4months last season u20, the FAI need to make it more attrative than that

[culloty82]

Today's Kerryman says the U-20 league will be renamed the Youth League and be for under-19's, doesn't mention group structure, but Dynamos will enter their Kingdom Boys team.

[mediahack]

Speaking to someone who was at the Club Convention last night, nothing happened. The meeting was a joke - everyone in the FAI clapped themselves on the back for another good job in 2009 (attendances up, debt down, standards still rising) and the clubs couldn't get a word in edgeways.

There were over 20 proposals and all were dismissed or ruled out of order by the top table.

It seems there were at least three proposals from different clubs to change to a single division and all were ruled out of order!

Roll on 2010 and let's get ready for the next scandal!

[Buile Shuibhne]

FAI reject change to league format

By daniel mcdonnell
Thursday December 03 2009

THE FAI has rejected proposals from League of Ireland clubs to scrap the 10-team Premier Division and either introduce one division for all sides or establish a new top flight for 16 teams.

Four motions related to the structure of the league were brought up at the clubs' annual convention at Abbotstown on Tuesday night, but the top table, which included FAI chief executive John Delaney, said that such a change could not be facilitated.

The current format of a 10-team Premier Division and 12-team First Division is deeply unpopular and the recently completed wide-ranging League of Ireland Review, seen by the Irish Independent, reveals that 72pc of managers, players and club officials believe the existing system is flawed.

In the two-hour summit in Abbotstown, Monaghan and Waterford United requested a one-league structure to be established, while Drogheda United proposed that the top 16 clubs form a new Premier Division with the rest consigned to the 'A' Championship.

However, the FAI argued that such a change was impossible at the conclusion of a season where clubs had competed in promotion and relegation battles and played for their 2010 places on football merit. If a change in structure was imminent, it would have to be outlined at the beginning of the preceding campaign.

Numerous figures in the game have spoken out against the 10-team top flight, arguing there is too much repetition while clubs in the First Division feel isolated.

In total, 22 motions were raised at the convention with other headings related to the length of the playing season, the 'A' Championship, refereeing, disciplinary and commercial issues. Most were dismissed, although the FAI agreed that some matters would be discussed by the league's executive.

That includes the future of the mid-season break, with Dundalk bringing forward a motion suggesting its removal. The Louth club also wish to reduce the playing season by two weeks to reduce financial pressures. Managers are split on the retention of the break, but 54pc of club officials wish for it to be scrapped as they can bring in no income during this week but most are still paying their players and staff.

Drogheda United called for the league to cease sponsorship with national newspapers, betting chains and radio stations other than RTE. A number of clubs feel their income has been hit by the umbrella sponsorship of the league by Boylesports, 'The Star' and Newstalk.

The terms of their respective arrangements with the FAI mean that rival operations are prevented from offering certain kinds of sponsorship, thus closing a potential revenue stream.

While the FAI will discuss the club's concerns, they counter that prize money from the league has increased. Going forward, consideration will be given to distributing prize money in a more equal fashion amongst all clubs. At present, the league champions receive €280,000.

Dundalk also appealed for the scrapping of the 'A' Championship, believing that it is putting an unwelcome financial burden on participating clubs, with Waterford United stressing that it should be optional rather than compulsory for senior sides to field a reserve team in a league which also features emerging non-league teams aspiring towards League of Ireland level.

The competition has been beset by problems, with Drogheda bringing a motion to complain about the "unacceptable level" of refereeing.

The Irish Independent has learned of one case where a club, short of two players for an away 'A' Championship match, paid two locals to make up their team while a number of fixtures have been postponed because clubs didn't have enough players.

development

However, the FAI are adamant that the league will play a vital part in the future development of the game.

Abbotstown authorities said they could not consider four motions related to officialdom as they are subject to discussions with the Referees Department in the FAI.

Waterford have called for an "urgent review" of referees fees and expenses in light of the current economic situation. It's understood that the FAI are in negotiations with referees about this matter.

Yet they will not be acting upon a motion from Dundalk asking that a referee should not be appointed to a game where one of the competing teams are from the same city or town as the referee.

With half of next year's Premier Division clubs based in Dublin and the majority of officials hailing from the capital, such a policy would be unsustainable without a dramatic cull of the current hierarchy.

- daniel mcdonnell



http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fai-reject-change-to-league-format-1962311.html

[pineapple stu]

Numerous figures in the game have spoken out against the 10-team top flight, arguing there is too much repetition while clubs in the First Division feel isolated.
Let's go ride bikes!

[Mr A]

That's a depressing read. What's the point of a review where the opinions of the league are ignored? I agree that immediate change would be difficult but the message here seems to be 'you've had your say, now we'll do exactly what we wanted to anyway'. On the other hand

I'm glad that the A championship is likely be continued though it does raise the question as to how Derry would be allowed to simply skip it. So it CCFC are refused a license will FORAS be given that option? What about the other A league clubs? All very messy.

[gufc2000]

No way should the 'A' Championship be scrapped

[Roo69]

Has anyone heard whether the A league will be continued next season or not? There has been rumours of it being "done away with" but nothing confirming either way as of yet.

Also the Under 20 League: Some are saying that it will be changed to Under 19's for next season but the same 4 group format.
Personally that's a load of sh!te and Packie Bonner needs to get the finger out and re-structure the underage system for senior clubs.
12 games in 12 months is not enough for a young player, you need a minimum of 25-30 games to offer.

I know a few clubs have asked for a national under 18 league but again the is nothing coming from the FAI on this.

Sorry for doing an IorfaJim on it folks.

Liam Buckley was on Setanta Sports last week talking about Sporting's season and the set up they have in Fingal. He mentioned that they currently have an U20s side but that will change to an U19 side next season.

[Riddickcule]

Why are we all looking for the Fai to give us the answers?

It's the clubs that needs to answer a few things.The Fai are just enforcing the rules, which has finally copped out some of the clubs, and will hopefully, clean the system so as to say we can have a sustainble, professional football league in this country.

[culloty82]

The Monaghan, Waterford and Dundalk motions seem to be short-sighted as there would be no point in abolishing the A championship if the clubs involved were sent back to junior football, also a reserve league would then have to be established to cater for the Premier teams.

[Dodge]

That's a depressing read. What's the point of a review where the opinions of the league are ignored? I agree that immediate change would be difficult but the message here seems to be 'you've had your say, now we'll do exactly what we wanted to anyway'.

Or they could be saying "listen you voted for this 10 team thing a couple of years ago stop changing you mind every 5 minutes"

Remember the indo sometimes takes a bit of license and "numerous figures" could be anything from 3 to 20. The motion was dismissed, which means the majority still want the status quo, at least in the short term.

[Macy]

The motion was dismissed, which means the majority still want the status quo, at least in the short term.
I've no idea what happened in the meeting, but if it was voted on and rejected would it not be "defeated" rather than dismissed? To me, "dismissed" suggests it didn't even go to a vote with the FAI ruling it out of order (or some other reason) that committee's use when they don't like the cut of a motions jib.

I think the 10 team league is again proving crap, but the clubs did vote to hand control to the tool and his crony's.

[Mr A]

Yeah, my understanding is that the motions were not even addressed.

There's an argument for not letting the clubs tinker as they've done it for so long so unsuccessfully of course.

[CuanaD]

There's an argument for not letting the clubs tinker as they've done it for so long so unsuccessfully of course.
That's what I would think - every year they look for a 'quick fix'
I'd like to think the FAI are holding out for a long term solution







(yes, i know this means having to trust the FAIlures - it's a BIG leap of faith) :eek:

[mediahack]

I've no idea what happened in the meeting, but if it was voted on and rejected would it not be "defeated" rather than dismissed? To me, "dismissed" suggests it didn't even go to a vote with the FAI ruling it out of order (or some other reason) that committee's use when they don't like the cut of a motions jib.

I think the 10 team league is again proving crap, but the clubs did vote to hand control to the tool and his crony's.

My understanding is that they were ruled out of order by the top table and therefore didn't even merit a discussion!

I am a little wary of the clubs trying to run their own show - which is why the FAI took over the league 3 year ago - but it seems their views were completely ignored.

It is also interesting to hear that just four clubs put motions to the convention which at least indicates they are thinking about the situation!

[Dodge]

Fair points in the motions not being heard.

[Buile Shuibhne]

With the meeting confined to just 2 hours on a midweek evening there was very little scope to discuss or to hear many motions or complaints

Obviously the whole thing was stage-managed and carefully choreographed by the FAI/top table to stifle any real debate.

A full one day weekend date would have been more productive and democratic.

[Mr A]

Very disappointed to note that Dundalk were for abolishing the A championship. Smacks of the worst kind of short termism.

[oriel]

As much as mid week league fixtures will never work in this country, the same applies to the current ten league, its a un-workable product and its proven in the many stats we have, lots on here, that the crowds reduce in the majority of second round home games v same clubs. Examples, we had 3,800 v Bohs on day 1 v 2,600 or something in rd3, 3,500 v Drogs, 2,800 (rd 3), even worse for less attractive clubs, think we hit a low of 1,200 v Bray (series 3 mid week)

A 16 team league, h + a once, stretch out the fai cup/lge cup to make up extra home games is the only way to go, have the likes of Rovers and Bohs travel to 'tricky' venues like Athlone, Limerick, Finn Harps, to fight for their lifes for 3 pts, instead of cosy 20 km round trips within Dublin city, while I`m at it, re-instate Cobh kick out Fingal, etc etc.

Now thats what I call League of Ireland.

[GUFCghost]

Very disappointed to note that Dundalk were for abolishing the A championship. Smacks of the worst kind of short termism.

Some of the clubs in their had no place at all in the LOI,so why should they be let into the A-League?

[Dodge]

As much as mid week league fixtures will never work in this country, the same applies to the current ten league, its a un-workable product and its proven in the many stats we have, lots on here, that the crowds reduce in the majority of second round home games v same clubs. Examples, we had 3,800 v Bohs on day 1 v 2,600 or something in rd3, 3,500 v Drogs, 2,800 (rd 3), even worse for less attractive clubs, think we hit a low of 1,200 v Bray (series 3 mid week)


They didn't srop because of the opposition, they dropped because the new season buzz had worn off and you weren't in contention for anything. Rovers crowds got better throughout the season, and it wasn't down to who thye were playing


Some of the clubs in their had no place at all in the LOI,so why should they be let into the A-League?
If they fit the criteria, let them in. Every club has to start somewhere.

[Riddickcule]

As much as mid week league fixtures will never work in this country, the same applies to the current ten league, its a un-workable product and its proven in the many stats we have, lots on here, that the crowds reduce in the majority of second round home games v same clubs. Examples, we had 3,800 v Bohs on day 1 v 2,600 or something in rd3, 3,500 v Drogs, 2,800 (rd 3), even worse for less attractive clubs, think we hit a low of 1,200 v Bray (series 3 mid week)

A 16 team league, h + a once, stretch out the fai cup/lge cup to make up extra home games is the only way to go, have the likes of Rovers and Bohs travel to 'tricky' venues like Athlone, Limerick, Finn Harps, to fight for their lifes for 3 pts, instead of cosy 20 km round trips within Dublin city, while I`m at it, re-instate Cobh kick out Fingal, etc etc.

Now thats what I call League of Ireland.
I like your style oriel, not only would i re-instate Cobh but i'd chuck in Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar and Carlow whilst kicking out Mervue and Salthill.

[oriel]

They didn't srop because of the opposition, they dropped because the new season buzz had worn off and you weren't in contention for anything. Rovers crowds got better throughout the season, and it wasn't down to who thye were playing.

Ah I dont think so Dodge, football fans are no fools, our biggest crowds in order this season were bohs, drogs & rovers, you play these games, you get 'up for the game' win/lose/draw, then maybe draw one of them again in the cup, our case bohs (2 more games) - it just becomes boring, you get the comment from the floating fan 'oh are we/they playing them again'

We have got to open it out to the regions, it has to be expanded for a country wide league, as for Rovers, you cant be serious ? 2 reasons their crowds increased as the season went on 1/ The Tallaght element 2/In contention for the lge title up to the second last w/e

[osarusan]

as for Rovers, you cant be serious ? 2 reasons their crowds increased as the season went on 1/ The Tallaght element 2/In contention for the lge title up to the second last w/e They were in contention for the league up until the end, and their crowds were high. If you'd been in the same position, your crowds would have been better too.
That's his point. It's not who you're playing, it's what's at stake.

But if you think you need variety of teams to generate atmosphere, think about how many fans Limerick are going to bring to Oriel compared to Bohs, or how many extra Dundalk fans will come out to see them because they're Limerick.