Givens defends his record in charge of U21s

[Scooby Doo]

I nearly choked when I read this pathetic, excuse for a coach's defence of his tenure of the U-21 side. Have you ever heard such a bullsh!t spin put on failure.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/news.asp?n=37670

[carloz]

Desperate attempt to save his job, and it says it all about the FAI that this desperate attempt will probably work. He says he doesn't want people to judge him on the result of the Armenia game, but on the performances as a whole. The performances as a whole must be woeful if we are behind Geogria, Armenia and Estonia. Clueless manager that needs to **** off for the good of under age football in this country

[Emmet7]

It's a pity many u-21 games are played around the same time as senior internationals.

Tardelli was the Italian U-21 coach and did a very good job while Liam Brady did a good job with the Arsenal youth teams.

They would make a good management team of the u-21s if the games weren't on or around the same time as the senior internationals.

[Scooby Doo]

It's a pity many u-21 games are played around the same time as senior internationals.

Tardelli was the Italian U-21 coach and did a very good job while Liam Brady did a good job with the Arsenal youth teams.

They would make a good management team of the u-21s if the games weren't on or around the same time as the senior internationals.
Agreed, and i'd imagine that it must be somewhat embarrassing for Givens as a supposed 'professional' to be surrounded by the quality of the Trap trio while his teams languish in obscurity and underachievment. Saying that, the big pay-check and light sexual favours from Delaney must make up for it.

[mastershake]

More crap from this so called manager.He says his sole job is to provide players for the senior team. This is laughable. Its through the players performances with their respective clubs that a player is nurtured and ready for full internationa honours.

Givens does little in the way of developing players for the senior side. In fact he's handling of the U21 sides have probably if nothing else instilled a losing mentality in these players. The last thing we want in players when/if they get promoted.

It seems that everone except the Fai can see this mans hamful effect on our underage players.Some joke.

[irishfan86]

I think the fact that Givens was involved in the hiring process of Trap makes it awkward as well, because normally I think Trap would try and remove Givens given his dismal performance in the job, but he may feel a sort of debt to Givens for helping him to get the Ireland job so it may not happen.

And I find it hard to believe that Delaney would fire him because if he wanted to do that he would have done it already.

[Stuttgart88]

Simple question for Don (and the other underage managers): why do we consistently field teams too young for their age group? Against England last year we had 6 U19 eligble players playing the second best U21 side in Europe. WTF?

If this was 40 years ago I'd have thought it was some Christian Brothers conspiracy to undermine the confidence of our youth. It's not, it's 2009.

[Razors left peg]

Simple question for Don (and the other underage managers): why do we consistently field teams too young for their age group? Against England last year we had 6 U19 eligble players playing the second best U21 side in Europe. WTF?

If this was 40 years ago I'd have thought it was some Christian Brothers conspiracy to undermine the confidence of our youth. It's not, it's 2009.

Because by the time the players get older Givens has already fallen out with them

[bennocelt]

It's a pity many u-21 games are played around the same time as senior internationals.

Tardelli was the Italian U-21 coach and did a very good job while Liam Brady did a good job with the Arsenal youth teams.

They would make a good management team of the u-21s if the games weren't on or around the same time as the senior internationals.

Just as a matter of interest what great Arsenal youth players did Brady unearth?

[**FrOsTy**]

Givens is the sole reason we're not performing underage/ developing players for the senior squad. Look at the vast array of talent in that team. James McCarthy, Alan Judge, Owen Garvan, Killian Sheridan, Jay O Shea, Sean Scannal. All very very good players with massive potential. Look at what Givens done to Keith Tracey. Tracey was one of the biggest prospects from that U21 team and Givens went and ****ed it up.

The FAI should look at the situation and give the job to somebody who has been involved intenslely with the LOI. Pat Dolan (can't be any worse then Givens) may be an arsehead but to be fair to the man he somewhat knows his stuff. He knows the LOI like the back of his hand. He'd have all the young talent such as Connor Powell developing into top class players for the future. The LOI boast many a young talent just itching to be noticed nationally so why not give the job to somebody who actually knows the league.

Any other possible contenders for a future U21 manager??

[Scooby Doo]

Pat Dolan (can't be any worse then Givens) may be an arsehead but to be fair to the man he somewhat knows his stuff.
Trap and Fat Dolan? Alot of awkward silences on that training ground methinks! :D

[Predator]

I wouldn't go for Pat Dolan. How about someone new, young and ambitious, with fresh ideas? It seems the under-age coaches at present are stagnating a bit. Trevor Scanlon? He was a development officer for the FAI last I heard. One of my buddies was at Letterkenny Rovers when he was the manager of the u21s and he spoke very highly of Scanlon.

John Morling is an Englishman (I think) managing the u-16 team at the minute. They played Czech Rep. in a double header recently, winning 2-1 and drawing 3-3. Seán McCaffrey?

Would any LoI managers be fit for the job? I also recall people suggesting Kenny Cunningham, but is he a qualified coach with some experience?

I don't know why we're even suggesting change, sure doesn't Don Givens have it all under control!

[Scooby Doo]

[QUOTE=Predator;1284449]

John Morling is an Englishman (I think) managing the u-16 team at the minute. They played Czech Rep. in a double header recently, winning 2-1 and drawing 3-3. Seán McCaffrey?

QUOTE]
Just as a matter of interest, can anyone shed a bit of light on what sort of costs are involved in holding an Under 16s friendly, for example. There is much talk of the deficit in the FAI's coffers an how they are struggling for cash in recent times. Now the U-16 squads,Irish and Czech, spent several days (afaik) at a pretty expensive four star hotel outside of Dundalk last week. A person that i know working in the hotel told me that there was very little expense spared during their stay. Any thoughts?

[Emmet7]

Just as a matter of interest what great Arsenal youth players did Brady unearth?

I think you are confusing the role of a scout with someone who works day to day with youth players. It wasn't Brady's job to 'unearth' players, that's the role of scouts. Brady's role was to coach them.

It shows your poor understanding of the game that you would confuse a scout with a coach.

And to help you fill in the gaps of your clearly inadequate knoweledge of Brady's role and success at Arsenal, why not read the following article.

http://www.arsenal.com/reserves-youth/coaching-staff/liam-brady

Some products of the youth system at Arsenal include Anthony Stokes, Cesc Fabregas, Ashley Cole, Nicolas Bentner, David Bently, Jermain Pennent, Mathew Upson, Jamie O'Hara and Kiaran Gibbs. Players such as Aaron Ramsey would also have been prepared for the senior team by playing in youth and reserve games.

Even Fabio Capello is a great admirer of the Arsenal youth system.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/07/07/1368092/fabio-capello-lauds-arsenals-youth-academy

[bennocelt]

I think you are confusing the role of a scout with someone who works day to day with youth players. It wasn't Brady's job to 'unearth' players, that's the role of scouts. Brady's role was to coach them.

It shows your poor understanding of the game that you would confuse a scout with a coach.

And to help you fill in the gaps of your clearly inadequate knoweledge of Brady's role and success at Arsenal, why not read the following article.

http://www.arsenal.com/reserves-youth/coaching-staff/liam-brady

Some products of the youth system at Arsenal include Anthony Stokes, Cesc Fabregas, Ashley Cole, Nicolas Bentner, David Bently, Jermain Pennent, Mathew Upson, Jamie O'Hara and Kiaran Gibbs. Players such as Aaron Ramsey would also have been prepared for the senior team by playing in youth and reserve games.

Even Fabio Capello is a great admirer of the Arsenal youth system.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/07/07/1368092/fabio-capello-lauds-arsenals-youth-academy

So basically its Ashley Cole and Sidwell then:rolleyes:
(all having to make a name for themselves outside of AFC) - and all the young Irish guys there too!!!!
Fabregas was poached from Spain!!!!

Yeah the famous Arsenal youth team we are all talking about, the supplier of many youths into the senior team - like Man U or Liverpool, or Everton?
- surely thats the job of a youth manager? - like the Irish under 21 set up

Scout!!!! we are talking about youth set ups, I never mentioned scouting!!!!


And giving me a link from the official website, plus capello - ha ha:o
Stats and stats and more stats - yawn

If you have been following football for a long time you might have remembered that for a while it was a joke that Arsenal had never produced much from their academies or youths (like Chelsea at the moment)
And Brady didnt cover himself in glory with Celtic or Brighton.

Just saying that they always go on about Brady and the youths in Arsenal despite him not bringing up into the first team any decent players (apart from Ashley Cole), and no Irish youngsters as well (what him been Irish and all)

[bogwarrior]

I think you are confusing the role of a scout with someone who works day to day with youth players. It wasn't Brady's job to 'unearth' players, that's the role of scouts. Brady's role was to coach them.

It shows your poor understanding of the game that you would confuse a scout with a coach.

And to help you fill in the gaps of your clearly inadequate knoweledge of Brady's role and success at Arsenal, why not read the following article.

http://www.arsenal.com/reserves-youth/coaching-staff/liam-brady

Some products of the youth system at Arsenal include Anthony Stokes, Cesc Fabregas, Ashley Cole, Nicolas Bentner, David Bently, Jermain Pennent, Mathew Upson, Jamie O'Hara and Kiaran Gibbs. Players such as Aaron Ramsey would also have been prepared for the senior team by playing in youth and reserve games.

Even Fabio Capello is a great admirer of the Arsenal youth system.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/07/07/1368092/fabio-capello-lauds-arsenals-youth-academy

Meow!

[Irish_Praha]

Brian Kerr would be ideal but that's not going to happen.
Maybe Stan, he seemed very interested in giving a different few young lads a chance with every squad he announced :D

Not so easy to come up with a name, maybe that's wh Givens has been there so long :)

[tetsujin1979]

You can listen to the interview online with NewsTalk's listen back feature: http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/
Select Off The Ball from the program list, and it's part 2 of the November 26th episode
The interview with Givens starts just after the 25 minute mark

The interview does start badly, but I think some of the points that he makes towards the end are fair

[Alf Honn]

Listened to that interview (twice!) and the only conclusion to draw is this man is deluded and should be cut loose.


At no time during the entire interview did he accept any blame for the mess he has created.


This man acts like the untouchable Al Capone within the FAI. The man he hired, Trap, won't sack him nor will his bum buddy Delaney.


Note how he states anything below the senior team is about development and how he shrugs off the notion that qualifying for a major finals would benefit the players.


Think he got quite an easy ride from Newstalk. They didn't they press him on Stokes of Treacy, all he spoke about was how unacceptable it was for a player not to turn up. I think in both their cases, there were explanations by their clubs but he's having none of it.


As for the innocence about Chris McCann, here's his response two years ago to a question after he asked to go home?


["Will I pick him again? Would you?" asked the furious Irish boss.]


Givens - you are an utter clown and the interview went to serve how much of an embarassment you really are.

[Stuttgart88]

A lot of people say Steve Bould is the man most responsible for the success of youth development at Arsenal. He's the actual coach.

I had some degree of sympathy for Givens with regard to his attitude to miscreant players, but young footballers are prats as a general rule and you've got to be able to manage them.

I've always felt it'd be good to have Steve Heighway in the underage set up, even as U21 coach. Irish and has a great record at Liverpool.

[hoops1]

Note how he states anything below the senior team is about development and how he shrugs off the notion that qualifying for a major finals would benefit the players..

That fact alone should see him sacked from the job. How he cant see how qualifying for tournaments and doing well in them would bring the players on a ton means he isnt the right man for the job. He is possibly the worst manager in Irish football and the fact that he is in such an important position makes it all the more annoying

[Junior]

I think the fact that Givens was involved in the hiring process of Trap makes it awkward as well, because normally I think Trap would try and remove Givens given his dismal performance in the job, but he may feel a sort of debt to Givens for helping him to get the Ireland job so it may not happen.

And I find it hard to believe that Delaney would fire him because if he wanted to do that he would have done it already.

Genuine question here. How much do you think Trap cares about the U21 set up?

I cant think of anyone he has lifted from thed U21's to the senior squad during his tenure. I got the impression WC qualification was his only consideration during the las 2 years. Perhaps that will change now with his extended reign agreed?

[Jicked]

Genuine question here. How much do you think Trap cares about the U21 set up?

I cant think of anyone he has lifted from thed U21's to the senior squad during his tenure. I got the impression WC qualification was his only consideration during the las 2 years. Perhaps that will change now with his extended reign agreed?

Off the top of my head Darren O'Dea, Anthony Stokes and Eddie Nolan. Considering the way the U-21s have been playing are you really surprised he hasn't seen to many more players ready to step up to the senior squad?

[Predator]

...Perhaps that will change now with his extended reign agreed?

It has to. He will have to keep a close eye on the progress of the younger players as they will be expected to step up an replace the more senior players in the next couple of years. He has continually stated that we're pretty weak in certain areas and has talked of looking to players like Naughton, Nolan etc. so it would be an affront, if nothing else, if he didn't consider any of the current u21 crop.

[Stuttgart88]

He looked at Garvan and a couple of others at the last B international at Dalyer. Considering Givens populates the U21 squad with U19s it's no wonder only a handful get a look in for the senior squad. I don't blame Trap at all for that. He takes his advice on who's ready from....Givens.

[Junior]

Off the top of my head Darren O'Dea, Anthony Stokes and Eddie Nolan. Considering the way the U-21s have been playing are you really surprised he hasn't seen to many more players ready to step up to the senior squad?

Had Stokes been featuring for the U21s? O'Dea and Nolan granted have featured in the senior squads

No Im not surprised but its a genuine question, how much attention do you think Trap gives the running of the U21's? Trap seems to be the sort of guy who has gone for the more senior Andrews, Lawrence etc.. His aim was to qualify for the WC and anything else could have been seen as a distraction. As I said that focus might well change now he has signed a new contract.


A lot of people say Steve Bould is the man most responsible for the success of youth development at Arsenal. He's the actual coach.

I had some degree of sympathy for Givens with regard to his attitude to miscreant players, but young footballers are prats as a general rule and you've got to be able to manage them.

I've always felt it'd be good to have Steve Heighway in the underage set up, even as U21 coach. Irish and has a great record at Liverpool.

complete curve ball here but...... What are Martin Keowns coaching credentials? Seems like a bright individual on his few appearances on MOTD2, great no nonsense player, Irish background.........

[Stuttgart88]

Hmm, complete curve ball alright!

Did Givens really underplay the importance of successful performances at underage level? I can't believe anyone can believe that. Look at the success of our teams during Kerr's tenure and the good bunch we sent to the U20 finals in 2003. OK, good players improve likelihood of success, but success breeds confidence and unity. Confidence is critical in young players.

Look at JJ O'Toole - intent on going backwards in his career due to poor application (decent goal yesterday but againt Hereford). If he was part of a U21 team that was winning games maybe he'd feel he's only a step away from the real thing. Losing consistently must be soul destroying and probably takes any joy or pride out of playing international football.

Where's your pride Don?

[Junior]

Hmm, complete curve ball alright!

what not even worth a comment? do you know if he is involved in coaching at all? I had no idea Bould was involved with Arsenal youths.........stranger things and all that...

[Stuttgart88]

I have no idea, hence no comment :)

[Junior]

He is now a part-time scout and coach for Arsenal, as well as a pundit for the BBC.


Keown joined the coaching staff of Newbury in August 2005, but is now coaching back at former club Arsenal where he is taking his coaching badges. He has been identified by former Arsenal manager Terry Neill as a key figure behind the success of Arsenal's inexperienced "new-look" defence (which the team resorted to after ongoing injury problems in the 2005/06 season, notably setting a record for minutes played without conceding in the Champions League)[4]. In 2007/08 Martin was also a coach for the Oxford University Blues Football team on a part time basis

from wiki

[Den Perry]

Agreed, and i'd imagine that it must be somewhat embarrassing for Givens as a supposed 'professional' to be surrounded by the quality of the Trap trio while his teams languish in obscurity and underachievment. Saying that, the big pay-check and light sexual favours from Delaney must make up for it.

good one lol