Lack of Respect for John Giles

[an_ceannaire]

Seems to be a serious lack of respect on these pages for Irelands 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time here, and a man who is by far and away the best football analyst on Irish/British TV.
John Giles is a living legend, but many here see fit to mock him, parody him and ridicule him.
Its a bit like the british media and Bobby Robson. John is not that young anymore, and when the day finally comes, and the tributes are paid, the same lads on here that constantly deride and slag him off will be in here saying what a "legend and hero" he was to you all.
Show some respect.:mad:

[M@ttitude]

I dont know anyone who doesnt respect Johnny Giles. But its ok not to agree with him sometimes...

[an_ceannaire]

I dont know anyone who doesnt respect Johnny Giles. But its ok not to agree with him sometimes...


Not agreeing with him is absolutely fine mate, its some lads in here calling him an idiot, a puppet of Dunphy, a "know-nothing" and other less than respectful abuses thats kills me

[osarusan]

I think that Giles' ability to analyse a match in progress is second to none. He can see strengths and weaknesses, and explain how to take advantage of situations.

Where he is less than impressive is the amount of 'background knowledge' he has. What i mean by that is that he doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable on anything that isn't Irish or UK football. He doesn't know players names, doesn't know their positions, doesn't know their clubs, and applies stereotypes without even realisisng he's doing it. Somebody on here has previously highlighted his calling the Germans 'efficient and boring' in the lead up to WC2008, despite them not playing like that at all at the time.

He always says that "we can only call it as we see it." I think he's very good at this aspect of the game, but less so at others.

[magnumpi]

Giles is a legend, always will be. just a shame he has to share a studio with dunphy. I think Giles, Sounness +1 would be a really interesting panel.

[peadar1987]

I assume you're referring to some of the comments in the Shamrock Rovers thread.

Giles is a legend of Irish football, but in my opinion, he let himself down with his attitude then, and some of his comments since.

[OneRedArmy]

How does being a legend in a completely different era make him qualified to talk about a game that has changed significantly since then?

Football has moved on and is a more technical game in a lot of the world (outside Britain and Ireland).

Give me Brady any day. He's kept his knowledge up to date at least. Likewise with Sir Bobby. He kept his knowledge up to date and managed all around Europe in very technical leagues.

[Wangball]

I think they need someone like Dunphy on the panel, if only just to act the idiot that he is, by making the outrageous comments that he does he provokes responses from the panel and starts debate

Giles undoubtedly loves football and knows an awful lot about it but the simple fact is a lot of his experience isn't really relevant anymore. Its been so long since he's had an active role withing a club or organization he can be a bit out of touch with the realities of the modern game. This is why Souness is such a valuable asset, he was a manager quite recently and is therefore, in my opinion, better placed than either of the others.

[Greenbod]

Irelands 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time

This is the only part of your post I'd have issue with. Giles was the greatest I've seen play, bar none. So unless you're referring to someone who played pre-Giles, who I haven't seen, then I have to disagree.

[CMcC]

Seems to be a serious lack of respect on these pages for Irelands 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time here, and a man who is by far and away the best football analyst on Irish/British TV.
John Giles is a living legend, but many here see fit to mock him, parody him and ridicule him.
Its a bit like the british media and Bobby Robson. John is not that young anymore, and when the day finally comes, and the tributes are paid, the same lads on here that constantly deride and slag him off will be in here saying what a "legend and hero" he was to you all.
Show some respect.:mad:

Is this a wind up?
If not, calm down man. He's in the public eye getting very well paid to talk about.......a sport. Nothing more. Nobody has ever said (AFAIK)that he wasnt a good player back in the day. That would be universally accepted. I wouldn't think he cares what some people on an internet forum thinks about him when hes counting his RTE and Newstalk money. Maybe you shouldn't either.

[irishfan86]

Giles is a classic example of "living on past reputation."

Nobody is questioning what he's done in the game, or that he was a great player in his era, but as an analyst I think his day is done.

The entire RTE panel could probably do with a reshuffling, with the exception of Souness and maybe Bill, but if you're getting rid of Bill you may as well get rid of the others as well and start with a clean slate.

The worry of course is that they get replaced with cliche every sentence skysetanta style sh*t

[John83]

For the most part, criticisms of Giles I've heard or read have been concrete, along the lines that osarusan posted above. There are always going to be a few idiots who take that further, and his playing days are long enough ago that there's little in the way of worshipful comment to him that someone like McGrath might get on here, but he's respected enough.

[magnumpi]

maybe if dunphy wasn't there dragging the conversation down to lowest common denominator sensationalist ****, then giles would be able to come into his own.

Bill - legend, should stay

Giles - legend, should stay

Sounness, fantastic player, talks sense, should stay

Dunphy - a nothing player, crap journo, talks nonsense, should be booted off. as soon as possible.

personally i don't care if Giles isn't up to date with some spanish player's latest haircut, or which WAG is cheating on who, he was a marvellous player, (and the term "great player" as John once said, is thrown around FAR too much these days), so I'm interested in, and respect, what he has to say.

[Irish_Praha]

Giles is a classic example of "living on past reputation."

Nobody is questioning what he's done in the game, or that he was a great player in his era, but as an analyst I think his day is done.

The entire RTE panel could probably do with a reshuffling, with the exception of Souness and maybe Bill, but if you're getting rid of Bill you may as well get rid of the others as well and start with a clean slate.

The worry of course is that they get replaced with cliche every sentence skysetanta style sh*t

I'd agree with this.

The WC next year would be a perfect opportunity to introduce a few new faces. Did they try that for the Euros last year?
I remember one world cup they tried Ray Darcy as the anchor man for a few smaller games but it was cringe-worthy as he presented it like a round of blackboard jungle. If I remember correctly Niall Quinn was there too.
Can any of the LOI (ex)managers talk a good game, apart from Damien Richardson? :p
Has Kenny Cunningham made the step up from radio to TV yet?
They could also get Roy Keane on to replace Dunphy as the controversial character.
Maybe one of the guys from Newstalk's off the ball as the anchor man, even if they can be a bit smug at times.
Such a mix would either end in them all talking over eachother or an entertaining show.

[Greenbod]

he was a marvellous player, (and the term "great player" as John once said, is thrown around FAR too much these days),

So which is better....marvellous or great??

[irishfan86]

personally i don't care if Giles isn't up to date with some spanish player's latest haircut, or which WAG is cheating on who, he was a marvellous player, (and the term "great player" as John once said, is thrown around FAR too much these days), so I'm interested in, and respect, what he has to say.

I don't care about any of that crap, and that's not what people are asking for.

World stars are not recognized by Giles unless they play in England, or have excelled in a major tournament, and if he's getting paid to do a job, that's not really good enough.

[Wangball]

You'd think that RTE football coverage would be quite an attractive proposition for any pundit type, its really the only television forum where the truth is actually told and the pundits are encouraged to be brutally honest.

This is probably the only time that Giles/Dunphy's distance from the game helps. Neither of them are invested with the clubs...thats to say they have noagenda's, anyone they played with is long gone so they don't have to worry about upsetting pals or people they're likely to come into personal contact with.

The other channels tendencies to lean towards recently retired players or rival managers or even current injured players in some circumstances means that the pundits can never really be too critical...for instance Jamie Redknapp is never gonna criticise his Dad or Frank Lampard.

And thats why Sky's punditry stinks, its so sycophantic, the BBC are no better & don't get me started on TV3 or Setanta.

[Wangball]

I remember one world cup they tried Ray Darcy as the anchor man for a few smaller games but it was cringe-worthy as he presented it like a round of blackboard jungle.

I was on Blackboard Jungle, he barely pulled that off so I can only imagine how bad he was anchoring a match

[magnumpi]

So which is better....marvellous or great??

erm, not sure.

it was during the last world cup, and Bill had said something along the lines of "but England have so many great players, why are they playing so poorly", and Giles went on to make the point that too many players today are referred to as "great", and that its an insult to the truly great players who went before them..... and I totally agree with him.

[magnumpi]

[QUOTE=Irish_Praha;1282718]
Has Kenny Cunningham made the step up from radio to TV yet?
QUOTE]

tried and failed. like watching a bucket of paint getting bored at the rest of the wall drying.

[Greenbod]

erm, not sure.

it was during the last world cup, and Bill had said something along the lines of "but England have so many great players, why are they playing so poorly", and Giles went on to make the point that too many players today are referred to as "great", and that its an insult to the truly great players who went before them..... and I totally agree with him.

I understand what you're saying and agree also....

However you described Giles as a marvellous player (not great) and then said that too many are referred to as "great".....hence my question.

[gustavo]

personally i don't care if Giles isn't up to date with some spanish player's latest haircut, or which WAG is cheating on who,interested in

That's clearly not what people are saying

[magnumpi]

yeah i know, bit of a rant on my part, but to be honest, i don't care if giles isn't that clued up on the foreign leagues. i know what i need to know about them. it's his critique of the irish team/players i care about...and almost always find him straight down the line. it really annoys me that i don't get to hear more from him and sounness because of dunphy's endless spouting of utter ****.

[monsexile]

I'd agree with this.

The WC next year would be a perfect opportunity to introduce a few new faces. Did they try that for the Euros last year?
I remember one world cup they tried Ray Darcy as the anchor man for a few smaller games but it was cringe-worthy as he presented it like a round of blackboard jungle. If I remember correctly Niall Quinn was there too.
Can any of the LOI (ex)managers talk a good game, apart from Damien Richardson? :p
Has Kenny Cunningham made the step up from radio to TV yet?
They could also get Roy Keane on to replace Dunphy as the controversial character.
Maybe one of the guys from Newstalk's off the ball as the anchor man, even if they can be a bit smug at times.
Such a mix would either end in them all talking over eachother or an entertaining show.
Get Billy Bagster in. Font of knowledge and a genuine wit.

[elroy]

Am not a fan of Dunphy, he spouts alot of rubbish, sensationalist stuff and tries to intimidate Souness, who is a far superior analyst imo (there was a classic recently where Souness asked Dunph who he had ever managed and Dunph replies Ive managed to stay alive for sixty something years baby!) classic :D

After the recent France game, Dunph came out with Finnan, S Reid, A Reid and Lee Carsley should be in the squad. Injured, injured, ok and really? He also called Fahey a left back not too long ago.

I like Giles, he is set in his ways a little but at least he can talk a decent tactical game, his knowledge of players isnt the most extensive. He is far superior on newstalk if you ask me, more humorous and more relaxed.

The problem with other stations is that the analysts appear too much polished, too scripted and stick to cliches etc. Compare Souness on Sky versus RTE for example. Has to said Billo pulls the strings very well on RTE as well in comparison to DM or PC.

[backstothewall]

Am not a fan of Dunphy, he spouts alot of rubbish, sensationalist stuff and tries to intimidate Souness, who is a far superior analyst imo (there was a classic recently where Souness asked Dunph who he had ever managed and Dunph replies Ive managed to stay alive for sixty something years baby!) classic :D

After the recent France game, Dunph came out with Finnan, S Reid, A Reid and Lee Carsley should be in the squad. Injured, injured, ok and really? He also called Fahey a left back not too long ago.

I like Giles, he is set in his ways a little but at least he can talk a decent tactical game, his knowledge of players isnt the most extensive. He is far superior on newstalk if you ask me, more humorous and more relaxed.

The problem with other stations is that the analysts appear too much polished, too scripted and stick to cliches etc. Compare Souness on Sky versus RTE for example. Has to said Billo pulls the strings very well on RTE as well in comparison to DM or PC.

Dunphy is a necessary evil. He is what makes RTE coverage better than BBC/iTV/Setanta/Sky/C5. Changes are going to have to be made as the panel gets too old, and if they are all made at once that different way of doing things will be lost.

The most important new face needs to be a new anchorman. Whoever takes Bill's seat needs to be introduced to the rarified aptmosphere of the RTE panel gradually, and needs to experience Dunphy on a rant, and be told thats ok. If they all go at once and someone like Keane goes off on one, odds are the chair will cut accross him and go to commerical before he says anything controversial.

I've said before I would like to see RTE bring in Colin Murray to replace Bill. The World Cup could be the ideal place to blood him.

[Strongbow10]

I don't care about any of that crap, and that's not what people are asking for.

World stars are not recognized by Giles unless they play in England, or have excelled in a major tournament, and if he's getting paid to do a job, that's not really good enough.

Well theres two sides to this. Giles doesn't make judgement on reputation i.e his mind isn't made up on a players abilities until he has seem him play there and then.
I remember everyone on Sky was raving about Zlatan Ibrahimovic before a particular champions league game calling him one of the worlds greatest strikers despite the fact none of them had seem him play maybe 2-3 times. Giles reserves his judgement for a player until he sees him perform to a certain level. Thats a good point in Gilsey.

However, he has this knack of referring back to how the game was played in his day which is obviously a flaw of his. He also made one staggering statement that he doesn't believe in tactics........ thats right he claimed that they mean nothing. And that kind of statement sums up whats wrong with Johnny Giles analysing the modern game.
However as a previous poster said, he is great at calling a game as he sees it.

[Strongbow10]

Dunphy is a necessary evil. He is what makes RTE coverage better than BBC/iTV/Setanta/Sky/C5. Changes are going to have to be made as the panel gets too old, and if they are all made at once that different way of doing things will be lost.

The most important new face needs to be a new anchorman. Whoever takes Bill's seat needs to be introduced to the rarified aptmosphere of the RTE panel gradually, and needs to experience Dunphy on a rant, and be told thats ok. If they all go at once and someone like Keane goes off on one, odds are the chair will cut accross him and go to commerical before he says anything controversial.

I've said before I would like to see RTE bring in Colin Murray to replace Bill. The World Cup could be the ideal place to blood him.

thats an interesting shout. Not saying its a good idea or bad. What do ya think he'd bring to the coverage?

[Ronan85]

I'll always remember Gilesey during the World Cup in Germany in 2006 - he was co-commentating on a Costa Rica game and kept referring to them as Puerto Rico! Legendary!:D

[HammerNThongs]

The problem with Giles analysis of football these days, is that it's a different game. he says it himself, he doesnt believe in things like attacking or defensive midfielders, only midfielders. Now, that was the way it was up until maybe the late 80s early 90s, but that is something that is evolved so obviously these days that any analyst shouldnt have to "believe" in it, they should know about it. It's a fact of life. Like, not all strikers will score goals, but some will be more creative, like not all wingers these days flake down to the byline and swing in crosses, some cut in and shoot themselves, like all defenders wont mercilessly crease a striker but some prefer to organise and position themselves intelligently. Why he cannot see such a blatant point of evolution and place of balance as this, I honestly have no idea. Believing Mascherano should be creating chances from midfield is as deluded as suggesting Messi should run to the byline and swing in crosses because he plays on the right wing.

As a player though, he is top 3 for Ireland without a doubt with only McGrath and Keane that could really go ahead of him and Brady & Given probably just behind. As a soundbite, he has his moments, but as an analyst of the game these days and his knowledge of players and club backgrounds, it's not great.

[Emmet7]

I don't think knowledge of the game ebbs to a great deal with time.

If we were to apply the same logic to Trapattoni as some on here do to Giles, we could say that Trap played in a different era and knows nothing about the modern game.

It's still 90% the same game. Still 11 players, goalie, defence, midfield and forwards. You still have the need for discipline, keeping your shape, keeping things tight, getting around players, being able to pass and delivering an end product.

The need for an end product from a player is as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.

I don't think there is a winger playing today, bar perhaps Ryan Giggs, who can deliver an end product like George Best was able to do.

The principles of the game are pretty much the same.

[Predator]

Jesus. Football's a simple game lads. Giles knows the game.

[Strongbow10]

I don't think knowledge of the game ebbs to a great deal with time.

If we were to apply the same logic to Trapattoni as some on here do to Giles, we could say that Trap played in a different era and knows nothing about the modern game.

It's still 90% the same game. Still 11 players, goalie, defence, midfield and forwards. You still have the need for discipline, keeping your shape, keeping things tight, getting around players, being able to pass and delivering an end product.

The need for an end product from a player is as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.

I don't think there is a winger playing today, bar perhaps Ryan Giggs, who can deliver an end product like George Best was able to do.

The principles of the game are pretty much the same.

I'd agree with ya to a certain extent in what ya say about Traps "outdated" approach. However this is more effective with a side like Ireland.

Giles having failed as a manager himself didn't go too far with his own philosophy of football being a simple game.

He also manages to take a stab at chairmen and directors whenever he gets a chance which probably stems from his own management days. He is probably blinded by this really. To say such a thing as to not believe in tactics is staggering though.

[kennedmc]

I can still respect him as a great player and criticise him as a pundit.

By being a pundit he opens himself up to criticism and praise alike. He's extremely lazy in his background and preparation work. He can normally be fairly accurate in summarising a game he has just seen. I know alot of people who ca do that also.

Unfortunately Dunphy and Whelan aren't amongst them

[OwlsFan]

I can still respect him as a great player and criticise him as a pundit.

Agreed. One of the best players I have ever seen in a green jersey. However, he repeats himself ad nauseum as a panelist and 90% of the time agrees with Dunphy (in case people haven't noticed). They praise Giles and castigate Dunphy and yet they are nearly always in agreement (Hand, Charlton, McCarthy, Kerr, Staunton (no surprise there) and Trapp). Castigated them all with the laughing buffoon as the front man.

Typical Panel discussion over the past 20 Years

O'Herlihy introduces the discussion with some over the top statement, Dunphy makes a few over the top personal attacks, Bill laughs, Giles pulls on the side of his jacket and agrees with Dunphy and says it's all about getting the ball down and passing, the gombeen in the middle (other than Souness) agrees with the other two, DUnphy then contradicts himself, Bill laughs, Giles pulls on the side of his jacket and repeats it's all about getting the ball down and passing, Dunphy agrees with Giles and makes another outrageous statement, Bill laughs, the gombeen in the middle agrees with Giles, one clip of 10 seconds (from hours of football) is shown to emphasise their point, Dunphy then makes a joke, Bill laughs, Giles pulls on the side of his jacket, says he doesn't want to repeat himself but that it's all about getting the ball down and passing, DUnphy agrees with Giles, Bill laughs, has a dig at Charlton and says it's time for a break.

After the break Dunphy says we're world class, we would have won the World Cup but for Hand, Charlton, McCarthy, Kerr and Trapp. Giles tugs at his jacket and agrees. Panel predict an Irish defeat.

The game - Ireland take the lead and play really well. Half time. Panel says players have released themselves from the manager's grip and opposition are hopeless. Dunphy agrees with Giles. Giles agrees with Dunphy. Bill laughs.

Second half. Opposition equalises and it ends a draw. Giles and DUnphy blame manager. Giles says it's all about getting hold of the ball and passing and that we fell back and that we should have gone on. Dunphy agrees. Bill laughs and blames Charlton (even though he's gone 13 years ago).

Balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance balance

The addition of Souness helps but we haven't had it for over 20 years..

It should be called the I Agree with Eamon I agree with John Show.

[John83]

I don't think knowledge of the game ebbs to a great deal with time.

If we were to apply the same logic to Trapattoni as some on here do to Giles, we could say that Trap played in a different era and knows nothing about the modern game.
You think a man who has been regularly and successfully managing for the past few decades and who has written a book on modern coaching techniques has no advantage over someone who watches the odd Champions League game and some Premiership highlights? Heck, he talks about the evolution of the roles of the various positions in his book; something Giles has been criticised here for dismissing.

[Macy]

I've said before I would like to see RTE bring in Colin Murray to replace Bill. The World Cup could be the ideal place to blood him.
I'm sure RTE would too, but doubt they'd compete with 5live/ Channel 5.

[Emmet7]

You think a man who has been regularly and successfully managing for the past few decades and who has written a book on modern coaching techniques has no advantage over someone who watches the odd Champions League game and some Premiership highlights? Heck, he talks about the evolution of the roles of the various positions in his book; something Giles has been criticised here for dismissing.

You think Giles has no knowledge of the game then? Including of the modern game?

Someone who won 2 league titles and played in a couple of European club finals is going to have knowledge of the game.

Like I said, it's 90% the same game. Fitness levels have improved, diet, lifestyle, etc have improved, having said that, Leeds were renouned for looking after their players.

You don't get to the European Cup final without having knowledge of the game.

The old vs modern debate is a bit silly to be honest. It's almost exactly the same game. When Giles talks about a midfielder for example, the same principles still apply today as then. You get on the ball, you look up, and you thread a good pass. And that's the problem with many premier league midfielders. They are unable to pass. Anyone who watched Kaka last night would have seen how a midfielder should play and set up goals. He got on the ball, and threaded a perfectly weighted pass for the forward. It's a pity many premier league midfielders are incapable of doing that, with their modern methods and all that.

[endabob1]

You don't get to the European Cup final without having knowledge of the game..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djimi_Traor%C3%A9#Honours

[John83]

You think Giles has no knowledge of the game then? Including of the modern game?
That's exactly what I said, isn't it? Oh, wait, it's not even remotely what I said. Goodbye.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sorry for reactivating, but no dedicated JG thread unless some 'mod' wants to amalgamate them all?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152639165080441&set=a.10150096680430441.394208.10150089120710441&type=1&theater

[BonnieShels]

I've said before I would like to see RTE bring in Colin Murray to replace Bill. The World Cup could be the ideal place to blood him.

An interesting call, albeit 3 years ago. I wouldn't let him near Donnybrook.