What can be done to improve the League of Ireland?

[oriel]

I always thought a great idea along similar lines would be to give the guaranteed option of being able to buy one International ticket for say every 3 consecutive LOI games attended. Remember the new Aviva Stadium will only hold 50k, and take away the usual non for sale, block bookings, I would say we would be lucky to have 5k left for general sale.

Why shouldnt these be prioritised to regular LOI fans (who want them) and to those who actually pay in to see football on a regular basis?

[Dillonman]

I always thought a great idea along similar lines would be to give the guaranteed option of being able to buy one International ticket for say every 3 consecutive LOI games attended. Remember the new Aviva Stadium will only hold 50k, and take away the usual non for sale, block bookings, I would say we would be lucky to have 5k left for general sale.

Why shouldnt these be prioritised to regular LOI fans (who want them) and to those who actually pay in to see football on a regular basis?

You also have to rememebr that the FAI at the time said that you will have to buy tickets in pairs, that was for Croke Park and they said it would carry over to the Aviva Stadium.

[weecountyman]

How about this, one for one. ONLY season ticket holders for LOI clubs can get international match tickets. There would be a set limit (obviously) and first come first served, and if you couldn't get a ticket for one game you are put on the top of the queue for the next one. The junior/schoolboy/womens clubs are all eligible too, via their leagues. Put none on open sale (though the corporate ones are already squirreled away). This way you might have a few clever clogs who'll buy a season ticket for a local team in order to get one, and it pays off all around, especially if a couple of floating fans actually go to LOI matches. If you look at the standard statistical rate of 1 in 20, from 25,000 tickets you will see 1,250 new fans rock up at clubs. Just a thought.

[SkStu]

or 25000 fans would buy the cheapest season tickets available... we're talking Irish football fans here.

[weecountyman]

or 25000 fans would buy the cheapest season tickets available... we're talking Irish football fans here.

:p Well, if it brings in a few more punters, why not :)

I reckon it might work, but then again, who knows.

[SkStu]

yeah but most of the public would just shop for the cheapest season tickets and never go to the games.

Plus, if the FAI even dared consider such a plan can you imagine the uproar? The outrageous suggestion that people should support their own league! Joe Duffy would be inundated with calls... Pat Kenny would get attacked on live TV - AGAIN!

[Schumi]

Tom Coughlan would probably give them away for free as part of his next money-making master plan.

[weecountyman]

I'd reckon it could work, not the Tom Coughlan bit, I'm sure he'd find some way to parlay "season tickets" into match tickets and make a mint, then blow it on wages and scented soaps (joke).

I'm sure that Joe Duffy would revel in the uproar, but the FAI have done far, far worse before and gotten away with it. Eircom Park, the biggest brown envelope job I've ever seen, passed by with minimal fuss, and the "Oirish" fans who spend their weekends watching sky clubs in foreign lands would kick up, but there would be enough for them to scramble for.

At least it would raise some extra funds for chairmen to squander (unless measures are taken) and some poor sod in Cooley would figure that a trip to Oriel might be fun, at least once!

[Dillonman]

I dont think offering International tickets is really the answer! Something needs to be done to try and attract better players to our leagues in order to attract more fans. I still dream of Ronaldo playing for Dundalk!!!only joking

[Ezeikial]

I dont think offering International tickets is really the answer! Something needs to be done to try and attract better players to our leagues in order to attract more fans. I still dream of Ronaldo playing for Dundalk!!!only joking

Sure thats dead easy to do!

Simply increase your playing budget to be able to attract players at wages of €3k and €4k pw and the crowds will roll in.

It's amazing that no one has tried this yet (apart of course from Shelbourne, Cork, Drogheda and Bohs)

[Dillonman]

Sure thats dead easy to do!

Simply increase your playing budget to be able to attract players at wages of €3k and €4k pw and the crowds will roll in.

It's amazing that no one has tried this yet (apart of course from Shelbourne, Cork, Drogheda and Bohs)

FAI or the licening committee to be precise approves the playing budgets so no you actually couldnt anymore without severe punishments and I was referring to trying to bring bettter players not more expensive players already within the league.

[jebus]

If you wnat to attract more people than the LoI needs to realise that sport in general, but football in particular, is a middle class game now, and the middle class won't attend anything unless their comfort is absolutley assured. At the moment the LoI doesn't have proper facilites (with the exception of a handful of clubs at most) and so can't attract the middle class, family orientated market. Thats the future audience for the LoI if it wants to expand so any money freed up by the government for football should go towards, and I mean solely go towards, improving grounds across the country.

Quick fixes like the ticket suggestions won't work, only medium to long term strategies will

[danthesaint]

Should it not be the opposite , free entry to an international with say every 6 LOI matches attended.

cant see that working out, getting people to spend 90 lids to go to LOI games, i reckon people with just skip the loi games and go pay for the ireland ticket.

[irishultra]

Get finances in order and enjoy it for what it is-our league. however the prob with this is that not only are fans in ireland retarded but they media goes along with this charade. if you support the loi u do kinda of feel opressed especially if u think about these things deeply.

[marinobohs]

Sure thats dead easy to do!

Simply increase your playing budget to be able to attract players at wages of €3k and €4k pw and the crowds will roll in.

It's amazing that no one has tried this yet (apart of course from Shelbourne, Cork, Drogheda and Bohs)

Alternatively sign six new players and realise two weeks later you cannot honour the contracts :rolleyes:
Any link up between the International set up and the LOI would be benificial in raising the profile of the LOI. While most of us here owe more allegiance to the LOI (I am presuming here!!!!) the general public do not feel the same. We cannot ignore 80,000 "fans" attend football games in Croker and they (at least some of them) should be the target audience for LOI clubs.
While I am unsure of how a link up between International games and LOI games would best work I do feel it would be worth exploring in an attempt to tap into the potential for increasing our fanbase. Hopefully when "Oireland" move to the AVIVA Stadium they will use the oppurtunity to heighten awareness of our League - especially given the amount of "new" (IE day trippers) fans likely to turn up.

[Riddickcule]

Yeah but jebus the government are reluctant(and have been for so many years)to fish out grants into the Loi.

So i think the goal should be first get the clubs financially stable, then we can work from there, and clubs need to use their income wiser, ie. Marketing, Youth, Facilities, Community work.

[weecountyman]

Yeah but jebus the government are reluctant(and have been for so many years)to fish out grants into the Loi.

So i think the goal should be first get the clubs financially stable, then we can work from there, and clubs need to use their income wiser, ie. Marketing, Youth, Facilities, Community work.

Would anyone, bar the greatest philantrophist, money washer or patron, dish out grants sufficient to do what's needed to the vast majority of clubs in the LOI? So the only way forward is, as you've said, get the house in order, get out in the community and work on things like marketing, facilities etc. A little bit of comfort is the least that can be expected going to a game, very few of our grounds can offer that.

[marinobohs]

Yeah but jebus the government are reluctant(and have been for so many years)to fish out grants into the Loi.

So i think the goal should be first get the clubs financially stable, then we can work from there, and clubs need to use their income wiser, ie. Marketing, Youth, Facilities, Community work.

In the current envoirnment I cannot see the Govt coughing up money to the LOI - perhaps some enhanced system of retaining tax (for those clubs that pay it) for investment might be possible.
Regarding financial stability, while definitely worthwhile I cannot see the link to improving the League ?
Is the English Prem any less successful as a result of Portsmounth ? Or has La Liga suffered due to the crazy spending at Madrid ? Indeed it could be argued that the overspending indulged in by some clubs offers a better chance of attracting new fans than the frugal approach.
This is not to justify overspending - before I get slaughtered - but simply to point out "financial stability" may actually diminish attractiveness for the LOI not the other way around.

[Riddickcule]

Sorry lads for having an opinion, such a crime eh?

[marinobohs]

I dont think offering International tickets is really the answer! Something needs to be done to try and attract better players to our leagues in order to attract more fans. I still dream of Ronaldo playing for Dundalk!!!only joking

Would he get a game ?:) here we are less than two months from kick off and we do not know

How many will be in each division
how many Divisions there will be
Rules applying (RE promotion/ relegation etc)

How the F**** can anyone market a product that is as yet unknown ? I appreciate that the bean counters have to do their stuff but at this point the above matters should be clear and clubs and FAI should be starting a marketing blitz (wishfull thinking). No great cost in insuring that these matters are decided by Janaury 1 and would surely help the League

[Mr A]

We do know that the top two divisions won't change in structure- that was made clear after the clubs met the FAI late last year.

The real uncertainty is about the structure the year after (which the FAI should clear up ASAP since it affects preparations for this season) and the fate of individual clubs.

[shep]

Would he get a game ?:) here we are less than two months from kick off and we do not know
How many will be in each division
how many Divisions there will be
Rules applying (RE promotion/ relegation etc)
How the F**** can anyone market a product that is as yet unknown ? I appreciate that the bean counters have to do their stuff but at this point the above matters should be clear and clubs and FAI should be starting a marketing blitz (wishfull thinking). No great cost in insuring that these matters are decided by Janaury 1 and would surely help the League

I totally agree...its a joke...like what club is gonna overextend themselves this season if they are gonna just join the two leagues toghether next year(as a quick way to get Derry and Cork etc.. back up)

I have to say its been the most depressing pre season ever and what are the F.A.I doing in terms of communication????? Nothing as usual.

[marinobohs]

I totally agree...its a joke...like what club is gonna overextend themselves this season if they are gonna just join the two leagues toghether next year(as a quick way to get Derry and Cork etc.. back up)

I have to say its been the most depressing pre season ever and what are the F.A.I doing in terms of communication????? Nothing as usual.

unfortunately for too long the League has been run on this type of amateur basis between fixture lists a week or two before the season starts to "make up the rules as we go along" (depending on who is involved of course).

a simple timely process well notified to clubs in advance (any club not ready (licencing requirements) by end dec forfeits place in Prem, for example) allied to a simple transparent process around admin issues (disiplinary, fixtures etc) would improve the League no end and should not be impossible to achieve.

[weecountyman]

Maybe the FAI have bigger things to think of, like how to get money for the Aviva and Trap? Not being a WUM, but maybe it's time the clubs gathered together and did an epl, or at least every last one being concerted enough to try. Not like the all-Ireland league effort, every last club in the LOI (Prem-A) gathers their strength and sets up a company that will run the show.

[Mr A]

That's the way it was previously and it was even worse than now. The clubs can't run themselves FFS, how the hell could they run a league?

[pineapple stu]

Was it worse than now?

Was talking to a couple of people who said that back in the olden days, clubs could at least be relied on to squeal on each other, so a kind of MAD existed which prevented clubs going millions in debt. Look at Derry pushing Drogheda to get their trading company reinstated so they couldn't walk away from their debt. It mayn't be foolproof, or even that good, but I don't think you can say that things were worse than now.

(And I acknowledge that the FAI have in recent months seemed to start stepping up to the plate)

[marinobohs]

That's the way it was previously and it was even worse than now. The clubs can't run themselves FFS, how the hell could they run a league?

I'm not so sure it is a bad idea, the FAI have no interest in the LOI and are allowing it to fall apart. While the running of clubs might not be a strong point in Irish football it might be the wake up call the clubs collectively need. I think they might need a seperate independent management company to come up with a plan and to police regulations but this could be done by the clubs. How this would impact on european participation is a seperate matter as I think it requires FAI nomination.
Issues such as the All Ireland League, regional structures etc could and indeed should all be part of any new allignment.
Admittedly not an easy proposition but the alternative is slow death at the hands of the FAI.

[endabob1]

I haven't seen a link to this elsewhere but it's a pretty terrible indictment of the state of the league in general & understandably Derry in particular from Clive Delaney

"I had no interest in playing in the League of Ireland this year after all that happened, I lost a lot of respect for it really."

"I spoke to five out of the 10 managers in the Premier Division and I'm shocked by how out of touch they seem to be in terms of what they're offering. There seems to be no leadership or direction about the way things are going."


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/sunny-side-up-for-delaney-down-under-2002656.html

[irishultra]

attendances are gonna be awful next season. part of me wishes the league would just die and then the irish team wouldn't be able to play internationals, maby the wake up call that is needed.

[Longfordian]

"I spoke to five out of the 10 managers in the Premier Division and I'm shocked by how out of touch they seem to be in terms of what they're offering. There seems to be no leadership or direction about the way things are going."


That quote's kind of ambiguous. I get what he's trying to say about clubs being disorganised but does he mean that he doesn't believe that the clubs could pay what they're offering or that it's not enough to give up what you'd have to give up?. It'll be interesting to see how those that do go abroad get on.

[Riddickcule]

It seems to me there is a conflict between tradition and commercialisation.

Not necessarily in an AIL but Platinum One did offer hope to us.In the form of an AIl which many didn't agree with and many still don't.
To me the FAI are a bunch of rose-tinted knobheads, clearly the league is imploding and they keep assuring people it will be sorted out.
This has to stop, there has to be a proper plan in place from the Fai, Delaney and Gavin need to admit the game is banjaxed and then admit something needs to be done about it.
A professional game can thrive here, the Fai say they are creating an environment for professional football to thrive.
But the Fai have other things to worry about..National team, Lansdowne etc. To name but a few.
In England and Scotland the clubs run it together and the league is a company, but the difference is, the clubs are better managed and only about half of income goes to wages (it varies but generally half)

Can P1 offer that hope? Even not in an AIL.

Are we willing to give up tradition so we can end this fiasco and start again?

[weecountyman]

Mr A I do agree with your sentiment but in many ways the situation has moved on greatly, from media to infrastructure (including communications) and professoinal management services. If we were only to view the game as a "product" here, how many of us would even glance a second time in its direction, very few I reckon. However there are a number of paths for the LOI to move along and the FAI are not going to want or be capable of providing them. Simply because it's too corrupted and insular with not enough willing resources to make a change, otherwise they would have gone to town on the rule breakers (fully) and not leave any loopholes.

By way of an example, in 2006-7 I was part of a working group to develop rugby in a country where it wasn't even on the radar. A friend dragged me into it and while I hated him, at first, for doing so, it was interesting to see where the problems lay. At the top and in the middle. The National Union couldn't countenance change at all (fearful for their positions) and the strongest clubs refused to come on board as this would challenge their hegemony. So instead of developing a strong commercial structure for competition that was attractive for sponsors, investors and fans. Out of 7 points to be addressed 2 were partially achieved until the end of 2009 (I believe) that there would be a growth in clubs. However there continued to be fratricide, deliberate backstabbing and overall the structure is weaker than before.

The main point that wasn't accepted, and that killed everything off, was that aa commercial trading company had to be set up, with an independent full-time CEO hired, with 2 full-time staffers and that they controlled everything that went on with the senior league, below that they would advise on club development etc. If we had something similiar in Ireland, with a company managing the top 3 divisions and instructing the FAI on how to structure the leagues below, then you could well end up with a vibrant local game, with EU grants drawn down centrally, administered and overseen in their dispersal and use. Of course a bigger employee base would be needed, but after 2-3 years it'd pay for itself.

[Mr A]

I'm not sure I agree with my own sentiment to be honest. Certainly there have been improvements in prize money (albeit structured badly and encouraging gambling), coverage etc but on the other hand the FAI have not shown anything like the steel required.

To be perfectly honest I think if I hadn't put so much time and effort into Harps over the past year I'd be on the point of giving up on the league. It just feels like there is no real point trying to do things right- there'll always be clubs walking all over you because they have no intention of doing the same and there seems to be little in the way of consequences from a governance point of view. If the FAI were at least bringing forward new rules to close the loopholes like they did with the examinership rules it'd be something at least, but there's no evidence of that.

[marinobohs]

I'm not sure I agree with my own sentiment to be honest. Certainly there have been improvements in prize money (albeit structured badly and encouraging gambling), coverage etc but on the other hand the FAI have not shown anything like the steel required.

To be perfectly honest I think if I hadn't put so much time and effort into Harps over the past year I'd be on the point of giving up on the league. It just feels like there is no real point trying to do things right- there'll always be clubs walking all over you because they have no intention of doing the same and there seems to be little in the way of consequences from a governance point of view. If the FAI were at least bringing forward new rules to close the loopholes like they did with the examinership rules it'd be something at least, but there's no evidence of that.

Real need to tear up the current "rule book" and produce one that is clear, transparent and final. Since the Ollie Byrne (RIP) days we have had administration made up as it went along with fixtures, disiplinary issues etc made up by phone calls and nudge nudge wink wink approach.

This is not all the fault of the FAI / LOI admin - as long as clubs see rules as there to be circumvented rather than adhered too then that is what will happen.
We need rules AGREED by the clubs and IMPLEMENTED by the clubs (under the auspices of a management structure). if the rules agreed by all clubs (and transparent) then there should be no sympathy for those caught breaching them ,the Pat Dolan "amnesty" nonsense when caught breaking rules should never again be a consideration but this also requires the FAI to be consistent and do things properly.
It is the least that the people who put so much work and effort (often voluntery) into clubs here deserve.