What can be done to improve the League of Ireland?

[dcfcsteve]

Cough.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs081.snc3/14835_1239801949043_1049102868_783961_1345037_n.jp g

Is that really the Dublin skyline.....?!? :eek:

By God - there's not much to look at is there.

Isn't that one of the statues from Easter Island on the right, a British Army watchtower on the left, and Big Ben in the middle ? And I'm sure there's a minaret in there too.

Bar the Hypo, there's not much to recognise in the Dublin skyline it seems...

[marinobohs]

You'd want to get something for that cough.
Can I suggest some sort of buy out for the last few bits of that ground of yours.
or you could get some benylin. special offer on in tesco's at the moment.;)

I would say three in a row will cure that cough pretty nicely ;) Seriously, as Dublins top club Bohs would obviously have the honour of representing the county (SRFC can of course represent Wickla).

Clubs not making damaging slurs against other clubs would also improve the image of the League.

Some very good ideas in this thread (even if some not too practical) it would be a good idea for the FAI to initiate a process to canvass fans on thier views and to get input to the League structure. If not before this should certainly be done before the League structure review in two years time (although I see no reason to wait !)

[Riddickcule]

I thought there is supposed to be a league review right now ?

[tippex]

I would say three in a row will cure that cough pretty nicely ;) Seriously, as Dublins top club Bohs would obviously have the honour of representing the county (SRFC can of course represent Wickla).

Clubs not making damaging slurs against other clubs would also improve the image of the League.

Some very good ideas in this thread (even if some not too practical) it would be a good idea for the FAI to initiate a process to canvass fans on thier views and to get input to the League structure. If not before this should certainly be done before the League structure review in two years time (although I see no reason to wait !)

Since when was Tallaght in Wicklow?

[Acornvilla]

Since when was Tallaght in Wicklow?
since when was wicklow in dublin?:rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

since when was wicklow in dublin?:rolleyes:

Hasn't been part of Dublin for 400 years now. Shame. Though Bray's been creeping back, I'm looking at you Old Connaught.


Like I said in a previous thread I've been wrecking my head the whole time with formats etc for the league.

But there's one question that has always got me and I can't really figure out a decent answer...

Why is it that we NEED to play 30+ games in a season. I know it's proper convention in Europe but there's no need for convention in Ireland due to the unconventional league and the fact that we have 3 other major field sports to compete with for starters not to mention the world's biggest league across the sea and a divided soccer jurisdiction!

We keep trying to work out what the best amount of teams would be but stopping short as to the reason why we play each team 2/3/4/5 times or whatever in a season in the league.

We all know that playing more home games equates to more income in theory but would not playing fewer but more meaningful home games not be more advantageous. It also means spending less money on away games which a lot of clubs can't afford at the moment, esp in the FD.
The main problem with the LOI is a lack of interest with the general population and a lack of understanding of what the population wants/likes.

As a nation we are complete event/success junkies. So let's start thinking along those lines. Having a Bohs/Rovers game only twice a season makes it an occasion. Having them on prime-time TV makes it watchable. Having bigger croawds makes it more watchable. Having it more watchable on TV would make more people want to go and so on ad infinitum.

We need a combination of all POSITIVE ideas to get us back to where we want this league to be in the future.

We have had some decent contributions in this thread and we should keep it up. The solution is in there.

Stability is the priority but we need an ambition outside of that stability.

[twowheelsonly]

A lot of good ideas here in fairness and, as BonnieShels says, a combination of positive ideas is needed.

14-16 teams would be my ideal played on a one home and one away basis. Between the League and various Cup competitions there are far too many 'here we go again' moments. Sligo and Cork City played each other 7 times this season and had another postponed - you're never going to attract a large crowd to matches 5,6 or 7 unless there's something huge at stake.

Bring the FAI Cup forward as well. November/December is a terrible time for a Cup Final. Play it in September at the latest. Look at the crowds that Fingal could have attracted after the Cup Final if they had another half dozen games left.

Honesty and Integrity are another two vital ingredients. On this point I do believe that we're getting there slowly. I'd agree with Fran Gavin that there are only a few chancers left but unfortunately even one is enough to leave a sour taste and all the wrong headlines. I also believe (I may be one of the few!!!) that the FAI are going about things in the right manner now and hopefully their intolerant attitude to the nod and wink manner of business will rub off on the Clubs. Accounts, attendances etc have to be forthcoming and honest.

Treated as a business then this League can be successful. Clubs must do what they can to increase their business, same as anybody else. This may be by reducing ticket prices, offering incentives in the form of Ireland or other tickets, maintaining links with schoolboy clubs, more aggressive advertising or whatever. It's up to each Club to devise their own strategy dependent on their own circumstances and location. Offer all Schoolboy clubs in your area tickets to sell (or pre-book) with them retaining 10/20% of the ticket price for the benefit of their own club. it's in their interest then to sell as many as they can. Have the CPO liase with the secretary or liason officer of each club.

The recent An Post voucher scheme was quite a good idea but should be run for the first month of the season, not the last. Get the kids in and hopefully they'll pester Mammy or Daddy for the rest of the season.

The Clubs need to talk to each other as well. Brainstorm and share ideas. If one club finds a strategy that works for them then they should be sharing it - another may be able to develop it further.

Just to add to the idea of a media campaign... where possible well known personalities could be used, even some of the Irish squad, and people like Westlife, Robert Bergin, Jimmy Magee, Jonathon Rhys Myers and others.

Keep thinking folks... best one of these threads in a while.

[tiktok]

Isn't that one of the statues from Easter Island on the right, a British Army watchtower on the left, and Big Ben in the middle ? And I'm sure there's a minaret in there too.

It's clearly Raiden from Mortal Combat on the Far left.
I'm not sure the scale is correct though, I don't think he's as tall as the spire.

[thischarmingman]

Jonathon Rhys Myers

You were doing so well until then...:mad:

[GUFCghost]

we need a fit and proper persons test like they have in the EPL

[BonnieShels]

we need a fit and proper persons test like they have in the EPL

You crazy? That would mean regulation and investigation of some sort. If we can't do it for banks, Taoisigh etc. what hope has the LOI got?


Awesome idea. We really do need it.

[dcfcsteve]

we need a fit and proper persons test like they have in the EPL

Cuz it works soooo well in England......

[oriel]

Anyone heard of plans to increase the PD in 2011 to 14 teams, with 1 relegation/play off in 2010 and 5 teams coming up - the remaining clubs to be removed to regional lges?

I have to say, this would be my personal preference to the PD Size, would mean for eg, 13 proper home lge games, have the likes of Bohs/Rovers go to places like Ballybofey, Athlone, and Limerick to fight for points, would also open up the league and increase the profiles of the smaller clubs.

I dont like the idea of home and away twice, becomes boring and hard to sell the game.

[jebus]

Anyone heard of plans to increase the PD in 2011 to 16 teams, with 1 relegation/play off in 2010 and 5 teams coming up - the remaining clubs to be removed to regional lges?

I have to say, this would be my personal preference, 15 proper home lge games, have the likes of Bohs/Rovers go to places like Ballybofey, Athlone, and Limerick to fight for points, would also open up the league and increase the profiles of the smaller clubs.

I dont like the idea of home and away twice, becomes boring and hard to sell the game.

That idea, my preferred one as well, has been knocking about for a while so I'd say the FAI are considering it at least.

Pending on licenses then who do you kick out of the league? Would 18 or 20 teams bet better (surely at least two clubs will fail to get a license). As it is I think the Premier League is stagnant (have never been in favour of 10 team leagues) and the First Division just isn't working.

Something needs to be done though because instead of this league attracting new supporters it seems to be losing old ones (people like myself and others have been posting about being sick of it all in the Cork thread). My own lack of love for Limerick in the second half of last season was more to do with the league's failings than Limericks as a club really as I just thought what's the point when the entire system is going backwards if anything. I remember talking to a Bohs fan on the Luas one day when I was living in Dublin and he made the point that he was done if Bohs went backwards to semi-pro and the league followed suit, I'd be interested to know if he has done so now

[Schumi]

Anyone heard of plans to increase the PD in 2011 to 14 teams, with 1 relegation/play off in 2010 and 5 teams coming up - the remaining clubs to be removed to regional lges?

I have to say, this would be my personal preference to the PD Size, would mean for eg, 13 proper home lge games, have the likes of Bohs/Rovers go to places like Ballybofey, Athlone, and Limerick to fight for points, would also open up the league and increase the profiles of the smaller clubs.

I dont like the idea of home and away twice, becomes boring and hard to sell the game.These plans come up every year, I won't hold my breath. 13 home league games is too few anyway.

[oriel]

I think a 16 team PD would work, 15 home lge games + expand out the lge cup a bit, add in an FAI cup game and its almost up to 20.

Next year fixtures pending, some Dublin teams wont have to leave the city for months - thats not a 'Lge of Ireland'

[passerrby]

18 team Premier, abolish the First, regionalised A league.

have to agree

[total hoofball]

These plans come up every year, I won't hold my breath. 13 home league games is too few anyway.

Unless you do something like a SPL style split after 26 games, top 7/bottom 7, which would mean another 6 games with 3 home/3 away.

[Block G Raptor]

I've a simple if a little far-fetched idea. if the FAI were to demand that in order to buy tickets for Irish Internationals 5 LOI ticket stubs must be produced, attendances would be up immediately and I would imagine once the Bar-Stool sitting EPL jersey wearing "Irish Supporters" had attended their requisite 5 games thay may just have caught the LOI Bug

[monkey9]

I've a simple if a little far-fetched idea. if the FAI were to demand that in order to buy tickets for Irish Internationals 5 LOI ticket stubs must be produced, attendances would be up immediately and I would imagine once the Bar-Stool sitting EPL jersey wearing "Irish Supporters" had attended their requisite 5 games thay may just have caught the LOI Bug

I doubt the FAI gives that much of a sh!t about the LOI to let it affect attendences of international games

[pineapple stu]

Ireland attendances would plummet and the FAI would be immediately bankrupt.

[endabob1]

They could give free entry to LOI games with every International ticket.

[pineapple stu]

Then LoI clubs would go broke. Remember the roaring success that was the An Post promo?

[Dillonman]

Premier Divison should go back to 12 teams and have the 10 in the first. That would mean only facing teams 3 times in a season again in the Premier, one less as we got predominately sick of having to play Bohs last season! Bring back a cup for the First Divison and A league similar to the Johnstones Paint Trophy in England. It would give teams something to play for at the bottom of the first divison.

[endabob1]

Then LoI clubs would go broke. Remember the roaring success that was the An Post promo?

Then they should give up, put their head in the sand and hope when they come up for air all is well in the world...........


Like the government are doing!

[pineapple stu]

So the only alternative to letting thousands of people free into games - and thereby doing clubs out of money, as has been seen to be the case in these kind of promos - is to give up?

[endabob1]

Yes, give up or wait for the A Team to turn up.

[Riddickcule]

I don't see why Loi supporters should not get first access to Ireland tickets.

Have a membership system where the first lot of tickets for Ireland home games go to members of Loi supporters clubs.
That way no-one loses money, there is a major incentive into supporting your Loi team, and the people who deserve to be at Ireland matchs, can go.

How does the block booking system work anyway?

[pineapple stu]

The LoI Supporters' Clubs can lose money if they get left with tickets no-one wants. And LoI Supporters' Clubs have access to tickets.

[Riddickcule]

Yes but i mean Loi SC have first access to Home tickets, they don't at the moment.

[pineapple stu]

The LoI SCs were asked how many tickets they wanted and were then given them. I think that's close enough.

You can't have an indefinite amount of tickets available to LoI SCs cos it'd screw over existing block bookers. "Sorry - don't have a ticket for you this time; I know you've been to all the crap games in the campaign, but someone in Monaghan wants a ticket for the Italy game, so tough."

[weecountyman]

18 team Premier, abolish the First, regionalised A league.

This is the easiest way forward, but keeping it simple is not something the FAI would be very good at. We have the beginnings of a pyramid system now, but how would it work below the Premier. 18 teams in the Premier, 2 feeder A's of 16 each, 4 senior leagues of 16 each and then links further into regional senior leagues.

2 up to the Premier and 2 down, same for the leagues below. A problem is bound to arrive when someone finishes top in a league below Premier and they don't have the ground or finances to go up. This is where local council co-operation comes into play.

[TheBoss]

My thoughts are that is should be 3 tier system for various reasons.

Tier 1: 14 Team Premier
Tier 2: 11 Team North Division & South Division
Tier 3: 8 Team 4 Provincial Divisions

Bottom 2 in the Premier go into group play-offs with the winners of the North & South Divisions, top 2 in the group go into the Premier and the losing 2 into Tier 2.

The 2 bottom placed teams in North & South Divisions go into group play-offs aswell, the bottom placed North team would play the Ulster and Connaught winners in a 3 team group and bottom placed South team would play the Leinster and Munster winners in a 3 team group, with the winners of each group go into Tier 2 and bottom 2 into Tier 3.

I think this can create some local interest as the whole country can be involved in some way.

[thischarmingman]

They could give free entry to LOI games with every International ticket.


Then LoI clubs would go broke. Remember the roaring success that was the An Post promo?

Surely the effects wouldn't be that bad? Free entry to a LOI game with an international ticket- most wouldn't think of going anyway and at least this way they have a chance to catch the bug. When you discount season ticket holders, how many of the remaining 50-1000 odd at a LOI game are regular international attendees anyway?

Worst case scenario, a club loses out on maybe 100 tickets (I'll admit this isn't very scientific) that would otherwise have been bought.
Best case scenario, an extra few thousand people floating around Dublin on a Friday night take advantage of their free ticket and go to a game.

If even a tenth of the attendance at a big international went to a game you're talking a mammoth leap in the overall LOI attandance that weekend. And there's the chance they might come back.

[weecountyman]

My thoughts are that is should be 3 tier system for various reasons.

Tier 1: 14 Team Premier
Tier 2: 11 Team North Division & South Division
Tier 3: 8 Team 4 Provincial Divisions

Bottom 2 in the Premier go into group play-offs with the winners of the North & South Divisions, top 2 in the group go into the Premier and the losing 2 into Tier 2.

The 2 bottom placed teams in North & South Divisions go into group play-offs aswell, the bottom placed North team would play the Ulster and Connaught winners in a 3 team group and bottom placed South team would play the Leinster and Munster winners in a 3 team group, with the winners of each group go into Tier 2 and bottom 2 into Tier 3.

I think this can create some local interest as the whole country can be involved in some way.

A 14 team top division looks a little better, but will they play 2 rounds of games?

As for the lower tiers, I think 11 and 8 team leagues might be a little too small and end up breeding contempt or over familiarity. Why not 14 all the way?

[pineapple stu]

Surely the effects wouldn't be that bad?
I was exaggerating a little, but look at the An Post promo - regular fans went out of their way to use the vouchers at rival clubs. Clubs were giving out about them a lot, as I recall (there's a thread on it here). There were big queues with the vouchers at the gates for our away game in Tolka. We had 200+ Shels fans at our game against Longford almost all using the vouchers. The second is a bad example obviously (cos they probably wouldn't have gone otherwise as it wasn't a Shels game), but that kind of stuff was happening a fair bit. Times it by five Ireland games in a year, and you'll cost clubs a lot of money.

[danthesaint]

1) change it to a 14/16 team league, altho it could affect attendance, people would rather see pats vs bohs, than pats v UCD so if we were to play a pats and ucd game we will lose an extra pats and bohs game.

2) increase the price of an ireland ticket say by a fiver and put the money into a fund for LOI clubs, i know people will complain but if they werent ****ing off to manchester, liverpool and glasgow we probably wouldnt be in this mess.

3) increase jerseys etc for sports shops, champion etc

4) a club in every county would be great, then there would be no excuse "we have no local team"

[pineapple stu]

2) increase the price of an ireland ticket say by a fiver and put the money into a fund for LOI clubs, i know people will complain but if they werent ****ing off to manchester, liverpool and glasgow we probably wouldnt be in this mess.
Meh. Better off teaching the clubs what to do with the money first. No point giving some of the idiots in charge of clubs more money.

[danthesaint]

Meh. Better off teaching the clubs what to do with the money first. No point giving some of the idiots in charge of clubs more money.

true thats probably another reason why we are in the mess we are now

[weecountyman]

Meh. Better off teaching the clubs what to do with the money first. No point giving some of the idiots in charge of clubs more money.

Why don't the FAI hire and install an accountant at every club, this is how it works in major sports in North America. For example, in QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) the governing body appoint an official to each club (normally chosen locally) to act as a "Sanctioning Supervisor". This person sends weekly reports back to HQ and makes sure that wage spends are correct, what's taken at the gate is registered and even gives assistance and advice on fundraising. One team, I think in Nova Scotia, were caught fiddling gate money and were fined 50,000 dollars, prevented from hiring new players or staff for 12months and most importantly docked 20points. There were no appeals upheld and they knew from the start they were in the wrong (this was in 1998-99).

I don't know if it could work in Ireland, but it would give a genuinely interested person a chance to work in sport, create extra jobs and I'm pretty certain the Sports Council would subsidise it somehow. Eventually ost of these people move up in the game, I do remember the whistleblower in Nova Scotia was brought up to Head Office and then 2 years ago had moved into the Coyotes organisation as compliance officer. Maybe it might fly in Ireland but it's worth a try.

[brianw82]

Why don't the FAI hire and install an accountant at every club, this is how it works in major sports in North America. For example, in QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) the governing body appoint an official to each club (normally chosen locally) to act as a "Sanctioning Supervisor". This person sends weekly reports back to HQ and makes sure that wage spends are correct, what's taken at the gate is registered and even gives assistance and advice on fundraising. One team, I think in Nova Scotia, were caught fiddling gate money and were fined 50,000 dollars, prevented from hiring new players or staff for 12months and most importantly docked 20points. There were no appeals upheld and they knew from the start they were in the wrong (this was in 1998-99).

I don't know if it could work in Ireland, but it would give a genuinely interested person a chance to work in sport, create extra jobs and I'm pretty certain the Sports Council would subsidise it somehow. Eventually ost of these people move up in the game, I do remember the whistleblower in Nova Scotia was brought up to Head Office and then 2 years ago had moved into the Coyotes organisation as compliance officer. Maybe it might fly in Ireland but it's worth a try.

Good suggestion.

Again though, people in this thread going on and on about X-team leagues when this is the type of stuff that needs to be implemented first.

[pineapple stu]

Why don't the FAI hire and install an accountant at every club, this is how it works in major sports in North America. For example, in QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) the governing body appoint an official to each club (normally chosen locally) to act as a "Sanctioning Supervisor". This person sends weekly reports back to HQ and makes sure that wage spends are correct, what's taken at the gate is registered and even gives assistance and advice on fundraising.
Sounds vaguely similar - if less detailed - to the monthly management accounts each LoI club is required to submit.

[danthesaint]

Why don't the FAI hire and install an accountant at every club, this is how it works in major sports in North America. For example, in QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) the governing body appoint an official to each club (normally chosen locally) to act as a "Sanctioning Supervisor". This person sends weekly reports back to HQ and makes sure that wage spends are correct, what's taken at the gate is registered and even gives assistance and advice on fundraising. One team, I think in Nova Scotia, were caught fiddling gate money and were fined 50,000 dollars, prevented from hiring new players or staff for 12months and most importantly docked 20points. There were no appeals upheld and they knew from the start they were in the wrong (this was in 1998-99).

I don't know if it could work in Ireland, but it would give a genuinely interested person a chance to work in sport, create extra jobs and I'm pretty certain the Sports Council would subsidise it somehow. Eventually ost of these people move up in the game, I do remember the whistleblower in Nova Scotia was brought up to Head Office and then 2 years ago had moved into the Coyotes organisation as compliance officer. Maybe it might fly in Ireland but it's worth a try.

thats a good idea, pity nobody in the fai will think of it tho

[weecountyman]

I think it's a difference in North American law and Irish. Salary caps, set ticket and merchandise prices and full co-operation between local city/regional councils and "franchises" are fully enforced with federal law. In Ireland you have clowns like TNB who doesn't bother waiting for meetings, doesn't pay players and staff, and basically clubs can go to court and win when ethically and legally they're totally wrong.

In some small hockey league (not picking on the sport just that I know a good bit about it in North America) I think it was the Colonial League, a farm team for Florida in, I think, Louisiana, failed an inspection on minimum standards for fan comfort (really) and were to be thrown out of the league. The parent club rocked up, did what was needed and saved the day, the sport has cemented it's place since. I don't see the FAI taking such close control on football in Ireland so that clubs can be hammered if one of their feeder teams (A or 20's) isn't up to scratch or has a problem.

One step forward for the LOI would be to have a set standard for matchday entertainment and service provision. Even the sky leagues in England and Scotland have their faults, but you take in a game in the 3rd tier in Germany and the atmosphere and attendance, as well as entertainment and facilities are well worth it. I took in a few games of in the old regional league North some years back and because of laws set by the German FA and football league, clubs have to provide quality on matchday or face a 3 strike type rule. Again each club in the top 3 leagues have an appointed match day assessor (from the regional federation) and it works well from what I've heard.

[TheBoss]

A 14 team top division looks a little better, but will they play 2 rounds of games?

As for the lower tiers, I think 11 and 8 team leagues might be a little too small and end up breeding contempt or over familiarity. Why not 14 all the way?

Yes, 26 games.

I think the teams in the lower reaches need some motivation to play better teams in higher leagues. The lesser games would allow for this competitive edge.

[culloty82]

A 14 team top division looks a little better, but will they play 2 rounds of games?

As for the lower tiers, I think 11 and 8 team leagues might be a little too small and end up breeding contempt or over familiarity. Why not 14 all the way?

14 for each division would cover all the current senior clubs in the first two tiers, and the most promising clubs in regional and county leagues would then make up Tier 3. If a promoted team hasn't adequate finances/infrastructure, the place would pass to the next team that has, while a club that goes into examinership would be automatically relegated for the following season or docked 20 points in the bottom division.

[weecountyman]

14 for each division would cover all the current senior clubs in the first two tiers, and the most promising clubs in regional and county leagues would then make up Tier 3. If a promoted team hasn't adequate finances/infrastructure, the place would pass to the next team that has, while a club that goes into examinership would be automatically relegated for the following season or docked 20 points in the bottom division.

The one problem I can see, right away, no matter what form we can think of, is simply this. For the clubs to embrace this would be like turkeys voting for Christmas! They would no longer be able to fiddle, avoid and mess. Ownerships would become very clear and it would end up with most clubs owned at least 40% by supporters (in order to avoid the complete NAm model). Also the FAI would never want to take it on board as it would mean more pressure on them to produce results, co-ordinate and officiate. In practice it would work, a strong national association with a strong national league with decently attended matches taking place in decent stadia in decent conditions with the next generation catered for.

One very important piece of criteria for entry into any pro or semi-pro or even high end amateur is the system beneath the first team. I'm not quite sure how it would work in Ireland, but in many European countries any senior club has it's 1st team, a u-20/reserve side and at least 6 teams below these down to under-10 level playing under the same name and administration. And for entry to the top flight, now I may be wrong for England, but EPL teams must have an academy plus youth set up in order to be licenced. In France all clubs must put in 20-40 man hours to schools in the vicinity (they get council grants for this).

[Réiteoir]

Yes, 26 games.

I think the teams in the lower reaches need some motivation to play better teams in higher leagues. The lesser games would allow for this competitive edge.

How about - 14 team League - everyone plays each other twice - then the League splits right in the middle into a bottom 7 and top 7 - who then play the other 6 teams in their bit twice again to decide relegation/the title/Europe.

Means we get a 38 game season - which would be the same as a 20 team division

[TheBoss]

I think that playing teams 4 times like it is at the moment, just does not work, and then add in cup games, you could end up playing the same team about 6/7 times, and that for me would take away the edge when playing each other and lead to more disappointing games, as the teams virtually know each others game very well.

[ClaretnBlue]

They could give free entry to LOI games with every International ticket.

Should it not be the opposite , free entry to an international with say every 6 LOI matches attended.