Player by Player rating of the lads this campaign.

[Murfinator]

Goalkeepers
-----------

Shay Given - 6 - Some great saves throughout but was telling this campaign was he wasn't the usual "saviour" as he was in the past due to solid defending at the back (for the most part) throughout.

Keiran Westwood - 5 - Looks like a serious backup option at club level but went criminally underused in friendly games throughout the campaign.

Dean Kiely - 1 - Can understand his frustration at not getting game time but if you don't have patience you don't deserve to be an international. Didn't see him walking out on West Brom when he was sitting on the bench.

-----------------------------

Defenders
----------

Richard Dunne - 8 - A rock throughout and a real lynchpin in our defence, sometimes liable for clumsy tackles but when he's on his game as he was in the matches where it counted like the 6 french, italian and bulgarian games there's nobody I'd rather have in the centre back line.

John O Shea - 9 - At long last showed what he's capable of in a green shirt. Forged a solid partnership with Dunne in the first half of the campaign and was usually faultless when playing at right back, he really won my respect this campaign.

Sean St.Ledger - 7 - Came from the wilderness into the first team in the second and settled in reasonably well, a couple of mistakes but his performances against France especially underlined what an exciting prospect he is going forward. Will surely be a top class defender sooner rather than later.

Kevin Kilbane - 3 - Not a natural left back so you can forgive him to an extent but showed to be a weak spot throughout and really struggled defensively. His saving grace was the away leg to France where he was downright magnificent both in attack and defence. Realistically needs to be replaced as a starter.

Stephen Kelly - 3 - Struggled badly to get back to where he was after injury. Struggled in the early stages against (Georgia?) and never really recovered and was never really trusted since. A step backwards this campaign.

Paul McShane - 3 - McShane's campaign was as frustrating as the last. One moment he can do something brilliant, the next something ridiculous and you're down a goal. Sloppy covering led to Henry's hand of god incident which is what we'll all probably remember from him this campaign. Still young, and he's got himself a starting position at Hull so I wouldn't rule out his future chances just yet.

----------

Midfielders
---------

Glenn Whelan - 9 - I didn't trust him at all at the start but he grew into the team more and more with each passing game, by the end becoming a key player in the side. It was a tribute to his rise in stature that when he went off against France injured there were groans of disappointment from everyone, if that happened in the first game I'd probably be pleased believing he wasn't good enough for the position. Two wonder strikes always helps too.

Keith Andrews - 7 - Another emerged talent and whatever about some of the games where he went missing in he was titantic in both French encounters performing like Lassanna Diarra wished he could in the 2nd leg.

Darron Gibson - 5 - Not at a starter level yet but he's steadily growing to that level, a good passer of the ball and never really let the team down.

Steven Reid - 8 - In the 3 games he played he was argubly MoM in each of them. Magnificent passer and set the team in motion brilliantly. Usual injury problems hampered him after that.

Damien Duff - 8 - Back to his sparkling best, brilliant ball retention and linked up with Robbie Keane magnificently for important goals once again. When fit he's got to be an automatic selection like Given, Dunne and Keane.

Aiden McGeady - 4 - Don't know how long this guy is going to be able to live on potential. He had some top class performances where he'd showcase magnificent skill but there's still no end product on it, he still gives the ball away too much and he's still a liability for defensive cover.

Stephen Hunt - 6 - Impact sub supreme but he'll be disappointed he never really nailed down a starting position.

Liam Lawrence - 9 - A great find in the second half of the campaign and shone brightly in the games he started. He's intelligent, crafty, good crosser, good set piece taker and provides defensive cover. A great all rounder and sure to be a starter next campaign.

Andy Keogh - 2 - He's not a winger and despite some great pre-campaign friendlies he linked up horribly with Kelly early in the campaign to concede badly and that was the end of him.

-----------

Forwards
-------

Robbie Keane - 9 - Great campaign, crucial goal after crucial goal. Some will argue he didn't offer enough outside of goals but I'd counter that's just the kind of player Robbie Keane is. He's a fox in the box kind of player, taking chances is his stronghold and how Trap and Redknapp could even consider him as an attacking midfielder, or Benitez a wide right player frankly baffles me.

Kevin Doyle - 6 - A lot of work but very little end product this campaign. Nothing was a lost cause and I greatly respect his work rate but his goal tally and link up with Keane is a little worrying. He needs to be taking his chances and I felt RTE were handing him MoM left right and centre for little cause. Hard work is great but it counts for little without something at the end of it. Maybe worked a little too hard as well, I felt by the end of the French game his stamina was gone and was making silly mistakes out of tiredness, made sense at that point why Trap kept taking him off at 60 minutes.

Caleb Folan - 7 - Linked up with Keane far better than Doyle good acting almost like a holding player in the striking role. Caleb is great at winning the ball and flicking on, very poor at direct chances on goal so there's a balance decision there for trap next campaign. We won't forget his Italian performance and I think we'd have all liked him to be there as an impact option against France.

Leon Best - 2 - Good friendly game against South Africa but came on in important games a few times and looked like a liability. Isn't up to this level yet and was frustrating he was kept being called upon when his more experienced teammate Morrison was left out.



Overall a very pleasing campaign that gives us a lot of hope for the future. I'd like to see the likes of Long, Keogh, Miller, Stokes etc removed and different options given a chance. It felt like some people were just brought to make up the numbers and were never thought of as serious competition for a first team place.

Trap promised chances for players out of the squad so for upcoming friendlies I'd like to see the likes of Andy Reid, Clinton Morrison, S.Reid and Finnan given their opportunities. I'm still feeling down about Wednesday but you have to feel looking at our squad now and our squad two years ago along with some of the players pushing for a place that there's no reason not to be optimistic for the Euros.

[noddy102]

What three games did Steven Reid play in?

[DeNiro]

In what games did Westwood and Kiely play? You can't rate players for sitting on the bench. If so, then Shane Long, Liam Miller etc should be awarded marks. Shay Given getting 6 also looks a bit mean tbh.

[noddy102]

Also, calling for Trap to include Clint and Finnan in upcoming friendlies is farcical. Both players' international careers are finished. Steven Reid has one last chance and Andy Reid should definitely be included.

Time to blood Kevin Foley, Eddie Nolan, Keith Fahey, Chris McCann and others into the international fold.

[philkildare]

[Kevin Doyle - 6 - A lot of work but very little end product this campaign. Nothing was a lost cause and I greatly respect his work rate but his goal tally and link up with Keane is a little worrying. He needs to be taking his chances and I felt RTE were handing him MoM left right and centre for little cause. Hard work is great but it counts for little without something at the end of it. Maybe worked a little too hard as well, I felt by the end of the French game his stamina was gone and was making silly mistakes out of tiredness, made sense at that point why Trap kept taking him off at 60 minutes.


Kevin Doyle 6?????
Doyler was the most consistant player of campaign. The position Trap plays him in means there will be very little end resu. He plays teh same role Aldo played in, and his goals per game rario was way behind his club ratio for years. Doyler ran his socks off ebery game, how many posessions did we get from him charging thekeeper or full back and they rush a clearance. Also for a guy who isnt that tall he can win a lot of knock ons(A La Paris)
Robbie Keane 6??? Mr inconsistancy!!!

[Crosby87]

What about Rory Delap? He will be our throw in savior in Rio. I just know it.

[Emmet7]

What about Rory Delap? He will be our throw in savior in Rio. I just know it.

I think Delap is playing midfield for Stoke the last few seasons, but he seems a very good utliity player.

I think his long thrown in is a very good option to have especially in the last 20 minutes of a game and he's definately worth calling up into the squad for that alone. I know the purists would have a fit if that happens but I hope the purists have learnt from the WC campaign that its goals and not good football that win games.

We played very classy football in Paris, the best in years, yet still only scored a single goal. I'd rather we played hoof it football against the French and score 3 or 4 goals, having said that the football we played was effective in Paris.

I don't think McShane should be in the Euro qualifying squad. He is definately an accident waiting to happen. Like many others I just didn't understand why Trap brought McShane on in Paris. Surely there must be a decent right back with Irish blood somewhere in the world. I think even Delap would do a decent job in that position.

I'm starting a get Delap in the squad campaign for the Euros.

[Fixer82]

I'd like to see two Reids, Delap and Damien Delaney included in next squad. Delaney for me would be a viable replacement for Kilbane.

Where was Noel Hunt in the ratings?

[SkStu]

Where was Noel Hunt in the ratings?

he's trying to claim some of Keanes marks.

Good post Murfinator.

[Fixer82]

he's trying to claim some of Keanes marks.


ha ha :)

[Emmet7]

I'm not going to do the ratings just comments.

Given - solid and reliable - hadn't much to do throughout the campaign. I'd like to see him made captain but not going to happen.

O'Shea - has matured into a great right back, excellent in Paris

Dunne - commanding in Paris, but should have attacked the Malouda free kick and played to the whistle. Probably tired and a loss of concentration caused it.

St. Ledger - nailed down his position at the centre of defence. Trap getting the best out of this player.

Kilbane - mixed bag. Still a lot to learn about defending and getting tight to players who are in a shooting position. Did well in Paris apart from a mistake or two.

Andrews - silenced his critics once and for all in Paris. Created the platform for our attacking play with his tackles and breaking up of French play. A real box to box performance. Definately there to stay in the centre of the park and closed the door once and for all on A. Reid playing there.

Whelan - scored goals and put in the tackles including in our own box. What more can you ask for in a midfielder? Tired badly in both French games but definately has the ability and once again Trap getting the best out of a player from an average club side.

Lawrence - one of the finds of the campaign - great technical ability and able to turn players, something we have been missing in midfield for years. Did well to set up the missed Keane chance. The match in Paris probably finished the argument about who is better McGeady or Lawrence, Lawrence no question. Trap's type of player, honest, hard-working, will run all night, model professional, and crucially with an end product.

Duff - would have been our player of the campaign if it wasn't for injury. More deserving of being in South Africa than most of the French players.

Doyle - tough ask playing alongside the notoriously selfish Robbie Keane. Did well in Paris though, but Keane has a habit of pushing Doyle wide and out of danger with his passes.

Keane - Once more showed in Paris that he needs 4 golden opertunities for every goal he scores. Has a high individual scoring rate for Ireland but I am convinced it's at the expense of the team. He'd prefer to shoot from an impossible situation than lay it off to someone better placed. Does not link up at all well with Doyle and prefers to have a striker alongside him who will set him up for goals but not the other way around. Notoriously self-centred for club and country and probably one of the reasons Ireland hardly every score more than one goal in big games.


Subs

Folan - another find of the campaign. Won almost everything in Bari. Held the ball up well. Normally you would expect forwards to fight a losing battle against central defenders, but Folan dominated the Italian defence who didn't know how to handle him and created chance after chance for the rest of the Irish team. I'd rather see him playing than Robbie Keane any day, but the purists would be outraged.


McShane - this guy will cause Irish supporters heartache after heartache for years to come if allowed to play for the Irish team.

McGeady - lots of running but no end product and Paris confirmed this. Never looked threathening, unable to shoot, pass or cross.

Hunt - lots of energy and running and tracking back. Almost scored a wondergoal in Bari. Needs a lot of time to get into a match, but I don't think he is as good as Lawrence.

Best - never on long enough to show what he can do, but still looks dangerous in the air. I'd have him on before McGeady.

[carloz]

Think St Ledger deserves a 9. Excellent in pretty much every game he has played for us, despite being thrown in at the deep end half way through the campaign. Remember this is from a player that hasn't played 1 minute in the Premiership

Giving Doyle 6 is simply shocking.

[Emmet7]

By the way, I'd like to see Stephen Ireland and Rory Delap on the bench. You couldn't depend on Ireland as a starting player, because if his girlfriend had the flu or someone made fun of him, he wouldn't turn up for the next match.

[soccerboy]

By the way, I'd like to see Stephen Ireland and Rory Delap on the bench. You couldn't depend on Ireland as a starting player, because if his girlfriend had the flu or someone made fun of him, he wouldn't turn up for the next match.
are you serious,stephen ireland should never be welcomed back to the irish set up,he is a treacherous rat...take a look at whelan and andrews giving everything they have in paris and ireland's interview in the sun saying he couldnt care less if they didnt qualify,he has no loyalty to his country...hope trap gives up on him and doesnt try to convince him to come back,he's not worthy of a place in the squad in my eyes

[backstothewall]

Goalkeepers
-----------

Shay Given - 7
Keiran Westwood - 5
Dean Kiely - 0

-----------------------------

Defenders
----------

Richard Dunne - 9
John O Shea - 9
Sean St.Ledger - 8
Kevin Kilbane - 5
Stephen Kelly - 4
Paul McShane - 4
----------

Midfielders
---------

Glenn Whelan - 8
Keith Andrews - 7
Darron Gibson - 6
Steven Reid - 6
Damien Duff - 7
Aiden McGeady - 6
Stephen Hunt - 7
Liam Lawrence - 8

-----------

Forwards
-------

Andy Keogh - 4
Robbie Keane - 9
Kevin Doyle - 6
Caleb Folan - 7
Leon Best - 4

[Billy-Green]

Steven Reid - 8 - In the 3 games he played he was argubly MoM in each of them. Magnificent passer and set the team in motion brilliantly. Usual injury problems hampered him after that.



I'm getting sick and tired of all this Steven Reid arse licking. He has only played 23 times since his debut in 2001. Everyone keeps saying Steven Reid this, Steven Reid that, surely a big part of playing professional football is that your body can cope with the rigours of it and it is clear that Reid is not able for it. I'm not saying that he is not a talented player but can we please get over him.

[CarrickFan]

Quite a comprehensive post for someone who feels so disassociated with players who either work or were born in another country and who struggles to identify with our national team.

[twoenz]

So, who would be player of the campaign? O'Shea or Keane?

I think Doyle was excellent. Fed on scraps and ran himself into the ground for the whole campaign (or the 70% he played due to being taken off) Needs to get more goals though.

[Razors left peg]

So, who would be player of the campaign? O'Shea or Keane?

I think Doyle was excellent. Fed on scraps and ran himself into the ground for the whole campaign (or the 70% he played due to being taken off) Needs to get more goals though.

Hard to pick one. Richard Dunne was a colosis at times too, away to Bulgaria especially

[highlight100]

Player of the group stages - Richard Dunne
Best Newcomer - Liam Lawerence

[mkbucks]

Henry wasn't seen while O' Shea was on the pitch.
I feel O' Sheas injury has cost us our place as Henry got a new lease of life when Sheasy went off!

[Billy-Green]

Quite a comprehensive post for someone who feels so disassociated with players who either work or were born in another country and who struggles to identify with our national team.

Good man Sherlock Holmes, you must have checked every post ive made to hang me out to dry. Maybe it was the one about Kilbane having such pride for the jersey and being born across the water? Remind me not to post anything before i check that i doesn't clash with any of my past posts.

[CarrickFan]

Good man Sherlock Holmes, you must have checked every post ive made to hang me out to dry. Maybe it was the one about Kilbane having such pride for the jersey and being born across the water? Remind me not to post anything before i check that i doesn't clash with any of my past posts.

Billy-green there has been a misunderstanding im afraid i was in no way talking about you or any of your posts..my post was in reference to the original creator of this thread..apologies for not being clearer.

[Irish_Praha]

Player of the group stages - Richard Dunne
Best Newcomer - Liam Lawerence

Would agree with this and O'Shea as most improved player.

I know Robbie doesn't take all his chances but 6 goals from 12 games and 2 of them coming away to Italy and France is not to be sniffed at. We will miss him sorely when he retires because at the moment I can't see anyone coming through that would be so prolific but hopefully someone will step up to the plate in the next few years.

[the doc]

Think St Ledger deserves a 9. Excellent in pretty much every game he has played for us, despite being thrown in at the deep end half way through the campaign. Remember this is from a player that hasn't played 1 minute in the Premiership

St Ledger has to be the Best Newcomer to the squad/team by far, a fanatstic find, just wonder why it took Trap so long to call him up.

Only a matter of time before he is playing in the English Premiership, Italy or Spain.

Remember I was the one pushing for his inclusion to the squad whilst many on here were all for the likes of McShane, Bruce and O'Dea.

I rest my case! :)

[ifk101]

St Ledger has to be the Best Newcomer to the squad/team by far, a fanatstic find, just wonder why it took Trap so long to call him up.

Only a matter of time before he is playing in the English Premiership, Italy or Spain.

Remember I was the one pushing for his inclusion to the squad whilst many on here were all for the likes of McShane, Bruce and O'Dea.

I rest my case! :)

No honest assessment could give St Ledger a 9 for this qualification campaign. Indeed a 9 means he was world class in each of the games he played in - and he clearly wasn't but none of our players were either.

I thought St Ledger did well in both games against France although he lead with his arse in trying to stop Anelka's shot. Otherwise he was exposed at times in the other games he played in and it cost us goals. Without Dunne by his side he was all at sea against South Africa - if they had a striker they would have put 3 or 4 pass us that day.

At the end of the day Dunne was our most important defensive player before the start of this campaign and he still is. What we have learned is that both Josh and St Ledger can complement Dunne in the centre of defence. Can either replace Dunne in the team - questionable.

I don't think we have found any real quality in the players Trapattoni has brought into the squad. In this regard, the failure of McGeady to make the step-up from club football to international football is disappointing and come the start of the next qualification campaign, our key players are still the usual suspects.

[Billy-Green]

Billy-green there has been a misunderstanding im afraid i was in no way talking about you or any of your posts..my post was in reference to the original creator of this thread..apologies for not being clearer.

Apologies on my behalf too, it was straight after mine so i just assumed.....maybe im paranoid :o

[smasher]

Henry wasn't seen while O' Shea was on the pitch.
I feel O' Sheas injury has cost us our place as Henry got a new lease of life when Sheasy went off!

While O Shea has been by our most improved player, I believe Henry is not a patch on what he once was and saw no visible improvement in his game throughout the two play off games.
If you watch O Shea closely he is very much inclined to stand off an opponent and give too much space. His positional sense can be questioned also.

[Murfinator]

The current Henry isn't what he once was, he's far better than it. His performance last season was the best of his career, he was simply magnificent.

He was a bit sluggish in the games against us as he was just back from an injury that had him out for a few months, he hadn't a full 90 minute game under his belt coming into those matches so you can't reasonably expect him to be playing 210 minutes in the space of 3 days at full tilt.

[the doc]

No honest assessment could give St Ledger a 9 for this qualification campaign. Indeed a 9 means he was world class in each of the games he played in - and he clearly wasn't but none of our players were either.

I thought St Ledger did well in both games against France although he lead with his arse in trying to stop Anelka's shot. Otherwise he was exposed at times in the other games he played in and it cost us goals. Without Dunne by his side he was all at sea against South Africa - if they had a striker they would have put 3 or 4 pass us that day.

At the end of the day Dunne was our most important defensive player before the start of this campaign and he still is. What we have learned is that both Josh and St Ledger can complement Dunne in the centre of defence. Can either replace Dunne in the team - questionable.

I don't think we have found any real quality in the players Trapattoni has brought into the squad. In this regard, the failure of McGeady to make the step-up from club football to international football is disappointing and come the start of the next qualification campaign, our key players are still the usual suspects.

God your so negative!

Disagree with what you suggest, I don't think he was exposed in the games, yes teams got throug the defensive unit, but you have to accept that will happen at times in games.

As for the South Africa game, thought he did well.

Are you Dunphy in disguise?

[Paddy Garcia]

Kevin Kilbane - 3 - Not a natural left back so you can forgive him to an extent but showed to be a weak spot throughout and really struggled defensively. His saving grace was the away leg to France where he was downright magnificent both in attack and defence. Realistically needs to be replaced as a starter.


Paul McShane - 3 - McShane's campaign was as frustrating as the last. One moment he can do something brilliant, the next something ridiculous and you're down a goal. Sloppy covering led to Henry's hand of god incident which is what we'll all probably remember from him this campaign. Still young, and he's got himself a starting position at Hull so I wouldn't rule out his future chances just yet.

.

These guys are not the same score - there is at least a 5 point differential between them - I'm not sure where that leave McShane if the range is 1-10!

[Duggie]

Keane - Once more showed in Paris that he needs 4 golden opertunities for every goal he scores. Has a high individual scoring rate for Ireland but I am convinced it's at the expense of the team. He'd prefer to shoot from an impossible situation than lay it off to someone better placed. Does not link up at all well with Doyle and prefers to have a striker alongside him who will set him up for goals but not the other way around. Notoriously self-centred for club and country and probably one of the reasons Ireland hardly every score more than one goal in big games.



i got to this comment and i didnt bother reading anymore. FFS this annoys me so much its unbelievable. people that agree with this have not got a notion about football IMO. head in the clouds.

Keane was our most pivotal player for the last 10 years and will remain so until he hangs his boots up(a day i will dread). My personal highlight of this campaign was the efforts and emergence of glenn whelan. totally under-rated but i thought he was brilliant. gritty, commited and can pass a ball, scored 2 goals. i was really pleased with him.

[Emmet7]

i got to this comment and i didnt bother reading anymore. FFS this annoys me so much its unbelievable. people that agree with this have not got a notion about football IMO. head in the clouds.

Keane was our most pivotal player for the last 10 years and will remain so until he hangs his boots up(a day i will dread). My personal highlight of this campaign was the efforts and emergence of glenn whelan. totally under-rated but i thought he was brilliant. gritty, commited and can pass a ball, scored 2 goals. i was really pleased with him.

Keane blew it in Paris, it really is that simple, and I'm also sick of listening to people like you with no clue about football who say Ireland can win games with our forwards not scoring.

Had Keane converted that simple chance when he was 1 on 1 with the keeper, we'd all be celebrating now.

You don't win games without converting chances, it's a simple rule, which obviously has escaped you.

I admire what Keane has done for Ireland and he has scored some crucial goals, but he also soaks up possession with only the odd goal to show for it. Penalties don't count as goals from open play.

[Duggie]

Keane blew it in Paris, it really is that simple, and I'm also sick of listening to people like you with no clue about football who say Ireland can win games with our forwards not scoring.

Had Keane converted that simple chance when he was 1 on 1 with the keeper, we'd all be celebrating now.

You don't win games without converting chances, it's a simple rule, which obviously has escaped you.

oh shut up, who tucked away our goal in the first half and the other 40 the last 10 years. ya lets bench robbie that will get us scoring. total waste of time you posting, u talk complete sh1te.

[Paddy Garcia]

You'll miss him when hes not here any more!

[Emmet7]

oh shut up, who tucked away our goal in the first half and the other 40 the last 10 years. ya lets bench robbie that will get us scoring. total waste of time you posting, u talk complete sh1te.

And we have a winner for the most immature poster on foot.ie.

Duggie take a bow.

As for the 40, many of them were penalties which even you would have a good chance of scoring. Many of the rest were scored against the likes of San Marino, Georgia, Albania, Cyprus and so on. Harly top notch opposition.

I said on here before the second leg in Paris, the inability of our strikers to score goals and convert chances would cost us the tie. Ultimately I was proven right, as our strikers had at least 3 clearcut chances apart from the goal.

As for Keane, with the game in the balance he started looking for the fancy goal...go around the keeper when he should have stuck it wide of him, try for a 25 yard screamer when he could have played Doyle in. Same old story with Keane.

Anyone remember the fancy flick he tried for Liverpool in the Champions League when a simple volley would have done the job.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think Keane was right to try and round Lloris - the French goalie proved himself exceptionally fast coming off his line previously and Keane absolutely did him. Pity he did himself too with a slightly heavy touch. Unlucky imo.

Sure he could have shot but so what? No 'but?!/if!/maybe??!?!' is going to overshadow what has been an immense campaign for our captain. I've had my doubts too but Keane has been brilliant under Trap - passionate, leading by example and still popping up with crucial goals.

In this campaign Keane got six goals (almost half our total, just the one penalty) contributing 10pts as well as almost beating the French. His scoring stats previous to this are screamingly obvious and hardly need reiterating - although the penalities argument hardly adds up to a hill of anything. Nor does the usual cry of 'Keane only scores against small nations.' Such as those footballing minnows of Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Holland and Yugoslavia.

Meanwhile slamming Keane for not getting two when he scored one while, in the same sentence, arguing the team should score more is patently ridiculous. Keane scores most of the goals for a side who score very few. This is actually an achievement.

The rest of the team could take the pressure off him by contributing a few more. Or we could defend better and not concede silly goals. Either way the whole argument conveniently ignores Keane's statistical record. Speaking of which...


Anyone remember the fancy flick he tried for Liverpool in the Champions League when a simple volley would have done the job.

96 games for Ireland and you have to reach for a Liverpool example?

[fionnsci]

As for the 40, many of them were penalties which even you would have a good chance of scoring. Many of the rest were scored against the likes of San Marino, Georgia, Albania, Cyprus and so on. Harly top notch opposition.




Ridiculous that anyone could criticise Robbie's scoring record for Ireland! 41 international goals is remarkable. Think of all the other great Irish strikers that never got anywhere near that!If not for the goals against the clearly appauling opposition that you named in this campaign alone we wouldn't even have been near the play-offs.

Robbie is a victim of is own reputation, I hear so many people dismiss him saying 'Keane is ****' while they say that Doyle is a great player when I ask them about him.

[Predator]

Ridiculous that anyone could criticise Robbie's scoring record for Ireland! 41 international goals is remarkable. Think of all the other great Irish strikers that never got anywhere near that!If not for the goals against the clearly appauling opposition that you named in this campaign alone we wouldn't even have been near the play-offs.

Robbie is a victim of is own reputation, I hear so many people dismiss him saying 'Keane is ****' while they say that Doyle is a great player when I ask them about him.
Exactly fionnsci, Keane still had to put them away. In my opinion it doesn't matter who the opposition is. We should be happy that he's scoring for us, because Doyle doesn't do it often. That doesn't mean that we can't criticise his consistent blowing of chances! Still, I'm happy we have Keane in our team!

[Emmet7]

Would Nicolos Anelka have tried to round the goalie in that situation, or Henry?

That's the difference, these guys know how to convert every chance they get.

Anelka had half a chance in Dublin and was able to put it in the net with the help of a deflection. The Gallas chance was only a half chance in Paris, but they scored.

The French only need one or two half chances. Torres only needs one or two half chances.

The Irish forwards and wingers got 4 - 5 chances in Paris and converted one. That's the main reason we aren't going to South Africa. And yes it is a case of ifs/buts/ands. Losing teams and supporters usually end up talking about ifs/buts/ands.

The whole campaign was thrown away because Robbie Keane tried to be fancy. His stats throughout the campaign are pointless now.

If I was Trap I would be going balistic at Robbie and telling him to cut the fancy sh*t and stick the ball in the net. There was no way the goalie would have had time to react given that Robbie was so close to the goal. It was one of the easist chances I have ever seen.

He wasn't unlucky, he was just crap at finishing the chance and in my opinion showing off which he is prone to do. If Torres, Drogba, Henry or Anelka had that chance, it would be a certain goal.

And I stand by the assertian Robbie needs lots of clear cut chances to score one.

As for his goal against France and also in Bari against Italy, both were put on a plate for him by Duff and Folan.

At the highest level, you have to take your chances or eventually you end up losing. That's not just my opinion, it's a fact.

[Emmet7]

Just to emphasise the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDXSfzzE4w

[Predator]

Emmet, anyone can miss a chance, it doesn't mean they aren't a good player or valuable to the team.

Just to emphasise the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y_FDPmcJY0&feature=related

[Emmet7]

The Irish strikers are not clinical.

The French strikers are clinical. The Spanish strikers are clinical. As are the Italians who had only about 3 proper chances against us over the two legs and converted all 3.

That's the main problem I see going into the Euros and in my view if we don't qualify it will probably be the reason why. It's pointless owning the ball as we did in Paris for long stretches and dominating the French and creating lots of chances and not scoring them.

Against the Georgia's, Macedonia's and Cypruses of this world, you can get away with missing chances because another one will come around in a few minutes.

Against France, Spain, Germany, or the big teams one of whom will be in our Euro qualifying group, you have to take every chance and you also have to score more than one goal to be sure of winning.

[SwanVsDalton]

Would Nicolos Anelka have tried to round the goalie in that situation, or Henry?

That's the difference, these guys know how to convert every chance they get.

Anelka had half a chance in Dublin and was able to put it in the net with the help of a deflection. The Gallas chance was only a half chance in Paris, but they scored.

The French only need one or two half chances. Torres only needs one or two half chances.

The Irish forwards and wingers got 4 - 5 chances in Paris and converted one. That's the main reason we aren't going to South Africas. And yes it is a case of ifs/buts/ands.

The whole campaign was thrown away because Robbie Keane tried to be fancy. His stats throughout the campaign are pointless now.

If I was Trap I would be going balistic at Robbie and telling him to cut the fancy sh*t and stick the ball in the net. There was no way the goalie would have had time to react given that Robbie was so close to the goal. It was one of the easist chances I have ever seen.

He wasn't unlucky, he was just crap and finishing the chance. If Torres, Drogba, Henry or Anelka had that chance, it would be a certain goal.

And I stand by the assertian Robbie needs lots of clear cut chances to score one.

As for his goal against France and also in Bari against Italy, both were put on a plate for him by Duff and Folan.

Let me get this straight - if the team fail to score, it's Keane's fault. If he misses one chance he's crap. If he scores, it doesn't count because it was on a plate anyway. Assumptions, speculation and contradiction all rolled into one neat argument. Impressive.

No one would put Keane in the same finishing bracket as Henry, Anelka or Torres (except you, it seems). But, still, he's proved his ability regularly. Keane has scored a lot of goals for Ireland. Important goals, meaningless goals, screamers, tap-in's, penalties, jammy ones, headers, volleys, rounding the keeper, lobbing the keeper, great finishes, off his knee scuffed into the net - he's scored them. And no one else has. And no one else has even looked like scoring them.

And no one would point so stringently to one chance - one 'OH BUT IF ONLY!' chance - and say that's what blew it. There are a million incidents like that in a qualifying campaign, it's daft to single one out above an other. 'If only' is a fool's game.

Interestingly I agree with a kernel of your argument - Ireland should take their chances. Absolutely right imo. But it's a team - eleven men - contributing to an attacking effort. If Ireland are to qualify for future tournaments it'll be because the team mange to raise their game to a higher level, and perform consistently. Not because Robbie Keane's tried to round a goalie.

[SwanVsDalton]

The Irish strikers are not clinical.

The French strikers are clinical. The Spanish strikers are clinical. As are the Italians who had only about 3 proper chances against us over the two legs and converted all 3.

That's the main problem I see going into the Euros and in my view if we don't qualify it will probably be the reason why. It's pointless owning the ball as we did in Paris for long stretches and dominating the French and creating lots of chances and not scoring them.

Against the Georgia's, Macedonia's and Cypruses of this world, you can get away with missing chances because another one will come around in a few minutes.

Against France, Spain, Germany, or the big teams one of whom will be in our Euro qualifying group, you have to take every chance and you also have to score more than one goal to be sure of winning.

No one's disagreeing with this. In fact I think everyone (and their granny, and their granny's dog) has been saying this for years. It just doesn't compute with blaming Robbie Keane, when Keane has actually, you know, scored a load of goals.

[Junior]

Duff missed an easier chance in my opinion - time to steady himself and pick his spot. O'Shea too had an easier chance. Both failed miserably. Keane wasn't trying to be 'fancy' he was trying to score, he over ran it, it was a mistake but Its obvious you have an axe to grind with Robbie and hence have highlighted that one chance as the crucial one.

Whelans chance in the first leg was point blank range, no 'fancy' trying to round the keeper - He just hit it low and hard as you seem to be suggesting Robbie should have done, the outcome? yep thats right a great save by Lloris.

Using Anelkas goal as some kind of example for clinical finishing is ridiculous. If I could be ar$ed looking on youtube, Im sure we could find examples of poor finishing from all those stars you have quoted. Despite which, I dont think anyone here is saying we have a striker of the class of Torres or Drogba - we don't but Robbie is the best we do have and Im grateful that we do have him.

Also, just to state that I have never been a big admirer of Robbie in terms of club football, I think he does have his limitations and as you have suggested he doesn't always make the right choices which can be frustrating but the to lay the blame at his door (which is basically what you are doing in this context) is plain idiotic.

[Emmet7]

Let me get this straight - if the team fail to score, it's Keane's fault. If he misses one chance he's crap. If he scores, it doesn't count because it was on a plate anyway. Assumptions, speculation and contradiction all rolled into one neat argument. Impressive.

No one would put Keane in the same finishing bracket as Henry, Anelka or Torres (except you, it seems). But, still, he's proved his ability regularly. Keane has scored a lot of goals for Ireland. Important goals, meaningless goals, screamers, tap-in's, penalties, jammy ones, headers, volleys, rounding the keeper, lobbing the keeper, great finishes, off his knee scuffed into the net - he's scored them. And no one else has. And no one else has even looked like scoring them.

And no one would point so stringently to one chance - one 'OH BUT IF ONLY!' chance - and say that's what blew it. There are a million incidents like that in a qualifying campaign, it's daft to single one out above an other. 'If only' is a fool's game.

Interestingly I agree with a kernel of your argument - Ireland should take their chances. Absolutely right imo. But it's a team - eleven men - contributing to an attacking effort. If Ireland are to qualify for future tournaments it'll be because the team mange to raise their game to a higher level, and perform consistently. Not because Robbie Keane's tried to round a goalie.

My point has been clear all along. Keane needs at least 3 good chances for every one he scores. That's not a ratio that will serve us well going into the future, and it's a ratio that will cause us the same problems in the Euros.

In fact, I know how the Euros will go.

If we play at the level we did in Paris which we are well capable of, we will create lots of chances. But we will only convert 1 or 2 per match. That might help us beat Cyprus, Albania, etc. But it won't help us beat mid ranking teams like Bulgaria or the big teams.

We probably won't win the group because of the inability of our forwards to convert chances. We will probably end up in a play off against another big team and it will go the same way as it did in Paris.

I wish it was different, but I see the inability of our forwards to score as the main concern for the Euros.

The main problem here is losing teams and losing supporters end up saying if only. Winning teams and supporters end up celebrating the accuracy of their strikers.

If you want to tolerate mediocre and poor finishing and tell us how great Keane is that's fine. If you want us to actually qualify for major championships, then you need to focus on the weaknesses in the team and fix those weaknesses. We don't have any world class finishers, that's one of our main weaknesses. Until we get that right, we will always struggle to put teams away.

[Emmet7]

Duff missed an easier chance in my opinion - time to steady himself and pick his spot. O'Shea too had an easier chance. Both failed miserably. Keane wasn't trying to be 'fancy' he was trying to score, he over ran it, it was a mistake but Its obvious you have an axe to grind with Robbie and hence have highlighted that one chance as the crucial one.

Whelans chance in the first leg was point blank range, no 'fancy' trying to round the keeper - He just hit it low and hard as you seem to be suggesting Robbie should have done, the outcome? yep thats right a great save by Lloris.

Using Anelkas goal as some kind of example for clinical finishing is ridiculous. If I could be ar$ed looking on youtube, Im sure we could find examples of poor finishing from all those stars you have quoted. Despite which, I dont think anyone here is saying we have a striker of the class of Torres or Drogba - we don't but Robbie is the best we do have and Im grateful that we do have him.

Also, just to state that I have never been a big admirer of Robbie in terms of club football, I think he does have his limitations and as you have suggested he doesn't always make the right choices which can be frustrating but the to lay the blame at his door (which is basically what you are doing in this context) is plain idiotic.

The goalie was right on top of Whelan when he took the shot and Whelan tried to lift it, he couldn't have done any more and he had no space to work with, with a defender and goalie closing on him.

Keane was on his feet, had plenty of time, all he had to do is pick his spot at the far post and hit it, really that simple. Going around the goalie onto his weaker left foot was always going to be the wrong decision.

And that's essentially the problem, bad decision making.

[Emmet7]

Anyways, I'm not going to continue this debate, because they tend to end up running for weeks on end.

I've said what I've said about Keane. The partnership with Doyle as it stands is not producing enough goals. He has a habit of pushing Doyle wide with his passes, hence the reason Doyle ends up out the wing so much and out of harm's way. Keane is very selfish, he chose to shoot from 25 yards in Paris on one occassion, when he could have had a 2 on 1 situation with Doyle as the other player.

As I said earlier, he'd rather try a shot from an impossible situation than set up another player. When you think of it, we could have had 2 or 3 more goals in all these games if Keane passed to other players in better positions rather than try the impossible.

And when he gets in one on one situations with keepers he gets cocky and tries to show off.

All of this is at the expense of the team. And if he isn't criticised and merely clapped on the back, he will just continue with his old traits and bad choices and that won't help the Ireland team in the future.

[SwanVsDalton]

You haven't answered why this lack of finishing is all Keane's fault, as you've already indicated. No one is excusing poor finishing or saying Keane's great, just pointing out it's a team problem not an individual one. Also quite how you 'get right' not having 'any world class finishers' is another strange one - do we kidnap Torres and rename him O'Toole maybe?

Poor finishing is indicative of poor composure, confidence and experience in a limited group of players. You give them belief - as Trap says - and it grows from there. Finishing comes after that. Hysterical finger pointing and what if's don't come into the equation.