Public Sector Cost-Cutting

[John83]

I had a question, not a point, Neil. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to pin an ideology on me.

[NeilMcD]

Ok, I read it as a point disguised as a question mainly due to your previous posts on these issues also. Sorry If I misread that.

[mypost]

204 per week is too much maybe cut it to 190

me and many others on here pay taxs

If you were out of work, and were claiming JA/B, you'll recognise how crap trying to live on €204 p/w in this country is. Most people on it atm, are approaching 12 months if not longer on it, and have no means of finding a job, as there are no jobs available. No, they shouldn't have their allowance cut, but they will pay the heaviest price tomorrow, for the government's handling of the economy.

Found the Prime Time show last night suspicious, in the timing of it. :mad: But when you're a taxpayer, you don't care about social welfare, and those on it are easy targets for the government, the public, and the media.

[NeilMcD]

I sometims find this country very frurstrating in ithat we seem to put emotions above scientific level headed approaches. We are certainly more latin than northern european in our behaviour towards societal aspects. The Frontline on the floods was a perfect example where the engineer barely got a chance to speak

[dahamsta]

Charlie Haughey was the test case of that theory, Bertie Ahern the proof.

Fianna Fail must laugh their holes off at the electorate in private.

[Fr Damo]

didn't Pee Flynn do just that once before a press conterence when he uttered something like " lets go out and talk to the fools ", think it was heard off Mic, but picked up nontheless.

[saint dog]

If you were out of work, and were claiming JA/B, you'll recognise how crap trying to live on €204 p/w in this country is. Most people on it atm, are approaching 12 months if not longer on it, and have no means of finding a job, as there are no jobs available. No, they shouldn't have their allowance cut, but they will pay the heaviest price tomorrow, for the government's handling of the economy.

Found the Prime Time show last night suspicious, in the timing of it. :mad: But when you're a taxpayer, you don't care about social welfare, and those on it are easy targets for the government, the public, and the media.

if you read what i said i stated i was on the 204 a week and still thought it was too much .
especially based on what minimun wage is .
while i have sympathy for you and others who find themselves now out of work , i dont for people who CLAIM to be looking for work whilst getting the dole for 2, 3 , 5 , 10 years its utter rubbish .
but i go back to what i said about if youve worked for so long well and good you deserve the full amount for a certain time but not for 10 years .
Primetime just showed how easy the system is being ripped apart by criminals (which is what they are ) i mean people were working and claiming on the same pps number for years and it going un-noticed
and thats before we even mention the foreigners ,
the laughable thing was people who robbed the state of 30k 60k whatever may or may not have to pay it back but even worse the social welfare continues to pay them after it been proved of their wrong doing , my jesus people like that must be just laughing their heads off
the only way around it would be somethinh like fingerprints

[NeilMcD]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/comment-reaction/david-begg-if-todays-cuts-go-too-far-economy-will-get-the-snip-1968036.html

Great article by Begg today.

[bennocelt]

Jokes go in Off Topic bennocelt. People try to have serious conversations in here, interspersed with intelligent wit. (That wasn't intelligent wit, in case it needs to be added.)

But the point is that the social is a joke. Look at the border counties. Even one place (in Monaghan?) had a population of 800 but a signing on figure of 1400. Sure that's crazy stuff and proves the point that the social welfare is far too much. In the UK its only about 60 pounds.
And also one should factor in the 6% deflation, etc in the year, prices are down, rents are down (not that one pays them on welfare with rent relief), and the cost of living is down. So how is over 204 Euros a week acceptable in these times of debt?

[NeilMcD]

Is that 6% adjusted for the fall in house prices as the fall in house prices can have a huge impact on the level of deflation.

[osarusan]

But the point is that the social is a joke. Look at the border counties. Even one place (in Monaghan?) had a population of 800 but a signing on figure of 1400. Sure that's crazy stuff and proves the point that the social welfare is far too much.
How does the number of fraudulent dole claims in Monaghan "prove" that social wefare is "far too much"?

[dahamsta]

Prepacked sandwiches are my cost of living indicator.

When prepacked sandwiches are still selling for €3-4 in most shops, there's something wrong.

(I know it's a luxury. So are pints, shorts, sweeties, Coke, etc. All still bizarrely overpriced. The collars don't match the cuffs.)

[bennocelt]

How does the number of fraudulent dole claims in Monaghan "prove" that social wefare is "far too much"?

Ah please..........be reasonable. eek:

Anyway I have to say the government were totally wrong on cutting the dole for the under 22/24, no matter what you think of the system that seems unfair. Coming out of college with student loans and no job prospects.

[Dodge]

Anyway I have to say the government were totally wrong on cutting the dole for the under 22/24, no matter what you think of the system that seems unfair. Coming out of college with student loans and no job prospects.

Practically forcing them to emigrate, and therefore cutting the social welfare bill and jobless rates. Huzzah! Job done

[bennocelt]

Practically forcing them to emigrate, and therefore cutting the social welfare bill and jobless rates. Huzzah! Job done

Wasn't that an old FF policy back in the dark days of the 80's as well - so they have form here

[Fr Damo]

Practically forcing them to emigrate, and therefore cutting the social welfare bill and jobless rates. Huzzah! Job done

or getting them to compete with Mr & Mrs eastern Europe for the job going in Spar, supermacs etc. One way or the other there is only so much work to go around so if we wnat to stay in employment here in the short term we will have to roll up ourseleves. Some will loose out and forced to look further a field, I think this is going to make us all a litlle bit meaner and leaner.

Overall I'm in favour of the cuts, though would have left some areas of the social alone.
Personally speaking, I am slightly better off after the budget, VAT to come down, mortgage relief extended, tax nottouched and I feel guilty as a result. Hopefully i'll still be gainfully employed next year and i have no doubt it will be my turn to pay up!

[Fr Damo]

What does it mean anyway? Anybody notice any difference to the delivery of services?

[micls]

What does it mean anyway? Anybody notice any difference to the delivery of services?

From a teaching point of you.

There's been 1 directive so far:

-No parent teacher meetings after schools

There have also been strong recommendations, expected to be made directives in the coming weeks
-No staff meetings after school
-No sports training after school
-No communion/confirmation activities after school

and a few other bits and pieces.

Unworkable in my opinion and those to suffer will be the kids. I certainly wont be stopping training the kids, so I wont be joining the into til the work to rule is over.

Id imagine youll see a lot of people going against parts of the directive and itl be interestin to see if they actually throw them out of the union.

[Macy]

What does it mean anyway?
Just doing your basic job - no extra's, non-cooperation with any proposed changes. Some organisations have attempted to implement stuff that was part of the agreement that the Government welched on - obviously with no overall agreement, there is no agreement.


Anybody notice any difference to the delivery of services?
The impact probably won't be felt by the general public, at this stage, although some places could have reduced opening hours, and some things might be slower. That's part of the reason it's starting with this.


There have also been strong recommendations, expected to be made directives in the coming weeks
-No staff meetings after school
-No sports training after school
-No communion/confirmation activities after school

and a few other bits and pieces.

Unworkable in my opinion and those to suffer will be the kids. I certainly wont be stopping training the kids, so I wont be joining the into til the work to rule is over.

Id imagine youll see a lot of people going against parts of the directive and itl be interestin to see if they actually throw them out of the union.
You can be disciplined without being thrown out - bans on holding positions etc. The only one I would see as contentious is the sports tbh, everything else is a headache for the board of management rather than children/ parents.

As a parent I think it's a bit hypocritical of parents giving out about having to take time out to go to parent teacher meetings. They give out that the teachers should put their children first, but they want to put their work first.

I obviously would always be a trade union member anyway, but I would've thought that teaching was one profession that it was essential.

[Dodge]

What does it mean anyway? Anybody notice any difference to the delivery of services?

I'd imagine most of the changes will be internal. I know where I used to work, the handling of Parliamentary Questions and other letters to the minister etc will not be handled by certain grades. Won't affect the generalpublic but will **** off people in authority

[Mr A]

I obviously would always be a trade union member anyway, but I would've thought that teaching was one profession that it was essential.

I taught for a while but didn't join a Union. They just didn't seem to give a toss about the issues that teachers actually talked about every day- and those mostly involved discipline.

While the TUI were not too bad, the ASTI couldn't seem to see anything other than € signs.

On the current situation- I don't know what the Unions hope to achieve. Pay had increased to much, it had to be rowed back a bit. And ruling out reforms just turns even more people against you.

[micls]

You can be disciplined without being thrown out - bans on holding positions etc. The only one I would see as contentious is the sports tbh, everything else is a headache for the board of management rather than children/ parents.

As a parent I think it's a bit hypocritical of parents giving out about having to take time out to go to parent teacher meetings. They give out that the teachers should put their children first, but they want to put their work first.

I obviously would always be a trade union member anyway, but I would've thought that teaching was one profession that it was essential.

According to our into reps report from mondays meeting the talk was of kicking out people who didnt follow the directive, whether it would actually happen or not I dont know.

A fair few at the meeting indicated they would leave the into and keep their 28euro a month before giving up training the kids in their own time after school.

Quite strong opinions on both side of the debate there and split pretty much 50/50.

On being in the union, Id always meant to join but hadnt gotten around to sending off the form.

I dont see any point in me joining at the moment when I have no intention of following a directive that will come in the next few weeks (training the kids). I'll see how this pans out but will join at some stage Im sure.