France V Ireland - Wednesday, 18th November 2009 - World Cup 2010 Playoff Second Leg

[LFC in Exile]

sorry if it upset you, it was just a light hearted attempt at categorising you and LFCwhatever together.

Its natural to be upset after tonights outcome. To be so rational and lacking in emotion is kind of weird to me. Unless youre actually quite detached from the Irish team anyway which may be the case.

I was like an anti-christ in the pub immediately after. But then I guess I reckoned Keane or Doyle would do the same. I don't like it at all - but it is not henry's issue - the officials fu**ed up. And as long as FIFA are willing to accept this and managers/players are equivocal then we have no option but to roll with the punches.

[tricky_colour]

What happended to the "luck of the Irish"?
I think we can throw that phrase in the dustbin now!

[celticV3]

Robbed, we weren't wanted in the world cup at the expense of a "bigger" team who were worse over two legs.

[tricky_colour]

Also if you follow this link you'll hear Henry admit it was a handball, that he admitted it on the pitch but that he's not the ref, he can't change a thing or decide what should be given or not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367418.st (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367418.stm)

Hopefully he gets hung for this :rolleyes:

It didn't hit his hand, he stuck his arm out to stop it going out then it 'hit' his hand again as he steadied it so it would drop nicely for him.
Two hand balls and an offside, or maybe two players off side.
It's the linesman who is Frances 12th man, he should be sacked.

[mark12345]

As i said, this was the biggest game of many of those players lives. How can you have officials that miss 2 handballs and an offside. I think we have every right to feel robbed.

Carloz, you need to referee a game to understand how difficult it is to see things. I would be what little life savings I have that neither the ref or linesman saw the incident because they were unsighted. I am a ref and though I'm hurtin' like hell tonight I know the ref didn't see the handball, because I have srewed up in similar circumstances. You just can't see through bodies that are blocking the action.

If you want to blame someone blame the dopes that are FIFA. At minimum the game needs two refs and four linesmen because we'll be waiting forever for the fools to bring in action replay.

[Dodge]

big f*cking deal. Just because cheating happens, it doesnt make it right and it doesnt mean we cant moan about it when it affects us.

The fact that you and the Insane Limerick Posse arent so devoid of emotion is just weird and detached.
Get a grip man. I pointed out that it wasn't just football (as a previous poster said) and that its hypocritical of some here to blast Henry for cheating while not saying anything about the various incidents (mentioned in this thread) where Robbie Keane cheated. Never once did I say cheating was acceptable

There's emotin, and then there's being ridiculous.

[mark12345]

ok can i ask did anyone care that duff dived in 2002 to get ireland a penalty? if ireland had scored in a similar vein nobody would say anything

Duff dived? Not on the TV I was watching. And you're the first person I've ever heard say that? Looked to me (and I've seen it quite a few times) that he was hacked down.

[theworm2345]

"You do not blame the player if he can get away with it, it is nearly a natural reaction."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8367420.stm

Agree with the Doyler

[irishultra]

Duff dived? Not on the TV I was watching. And you're the first person I've ever heard say that? Looked to me (and I've seen it quite a few times) that he was hacked down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIFCToqGZpk&feature=related

this shows the difference in irish and french people. thats cheating as much as henry was. obviously the irish media didn't bring that up after the match.

[Metrostars]

Another thing, why did Lasana Diarra never a yellow card for his constant fouling? I'd say he had 8 or 9 fouls.

[DotTV]

You mean you've been playing the game for 20-odd years and it's your natural instinct to do something you've been trained not to do all that time?

Something so basic as not handling the ball?

After 20 years of training you still naturally handle the ball when it comes to you? Good Lord, I train for gaelic football half the year and still know not to stretch my hand to control the ball if it comes near me.


Bear in mind handling the ball is not integral to the game. Falling is integral: you get tackled, or 'touched' as it may be, and you fall. But you should never handle the ball. That's the skill-set of the game, and of all people Henry is skilled and experienced enough to know that. Simply, it is NEVER done. Unless you're a conniving, cheating 'person'. It is, in my opinion, actually entirely unnatural when you play.







The question then is whether to blame the "player" or the "game" - my anguish is too blinding to think clearly on that point at the moment.

Great post. And to add to it, he handled the ball TWICE. He's a cheat.

[DotTV]

Can you name me a professional sport where cheating doesn't happen or where it is dealt with effectively?Why do we put up with it? Because we have no choice.

As I said earlier, FIFA could deal with it tomorrow if they had the balls. Look at the Eduardo nonsense. It could be fixed but they don't want it. And professionals and managers know these things are swings and roundabouts. All those "foreign" divers like Gerrard, Owen, Rooney etc

As they say in Limerick - doll didey :)

Pro golf

[Noelys Guitar]

Here is the paragraph about the goal from the FIFA site written an hour after the game. I posted it on here earlier.

Five minutes later, France skipper Thierry Henry won the match for the hosts when his angled pass amid a goalmouth scramble was met by the head of Wiliam Gallas. The goal enabled France to qualify and avoid a repeat of their humiliating failure, at the hands of Bulgaria, to qualify for the 1994 FIFA World Cup finals.

Here is the paragraph 2 hours after the game and now still up (spelling mistake and all).

Five minutes later, William Gallas bunled the ball home to win the match for Les Bleus. The goal enabled France to qualify and avoid a repeat of their humiliating failure, at the hands of Bulgaria, to qualify for the 1994 FIFA World Cup finals.

A disgrace. Why change their own text and leave Henry completely out of the goal? Because they know FIFA's pre-match actions have led to a linesman and ref getting three seperate calls wrong in one passage of play. Not possible for both the linesman and ref to miss three seperate incidents in one passage of play. Plus they turned off the comments feature on our game only of the four qualifters.

Richard Dunne's comments after the game

“I’ve watched it back a few times and I think it’s quite blatant that we were cheated,” said a still visibly upset Aston Villa defender. “Realistically, it’s exactly what we thought might happen. The people who run the game have got exactly what they wanted.”

[DotTV]

Reporter: "Is that something you'd expect from a player of Henry's stature?"

Robbie: "I wouldn't expect it from anyone."

[Noelys Guitar]

I wonder if Henry now wishes if he had just let the ball go over the deadball line? I have always admired him as a player. And he strikes me as one who will suffer greatly from having his reputation shredded after this incident. It might be great for France as a team to have qualified but I bet Henry will regret what he did for the rest of his life.

[Volcán Masaya]

France could offer to replay the game. Arsenal did so after they won an FA Cup 5th round tie against Sheff Utd in '99 with a goal scored in an unsportsmanlike manner. The ball had been kicked out of play because a player was down injured. Instead of giving the ball back to Sheff with the resulting throw in they played the ball into Kanu and caught Sheff on the hop with a goal. Perfectly legit, but unsportsmanlike. Arsenal won the replay.
It would be a great act of sportsmanship on their part if the French offered to do this, and in fairness they'd be favourites to win the replay anyway.
Would be great for football as a game too. The amount of cheating that goes on and is accepted as being "part of the game" these days has ruined the sport for a lot of people.

[Reality Bites]

Henry is a Charaltan a Scumbag of the highest order... playing to the gallery by sitting beside dunne at Final whistle after robbing us some blantly - Hate is a strong word but I hate Thierry Henry for his handball and his pathetic pandering for the Camera at Full Time - Once a great player now Scumbag to me....

[SkStu]

France could offer to replay the game. Arsenal did so after they won an FA Cup 5th round tie against Sheff Utd in '99 with a goal scored in an unsportsmanlike manner. The ball had been kicked out of play because a player was down injured. Instead of giving the ball back to Sheff with the resulting throw in they played the ball into Kanu and caught Sheff on the hop with a goal. Perfectly legit, but unsportsmanlike. Arsenal won the replay.
It would be a great act of sportsmanship on their part if the French offered to do this, and in fairness they'd be favourites to win the replay anyway.
Would be great for football as a game too. The amount of cheating that goes on and is accepted as being "part of the game" these days has ruined the sport for a lot of people.

nice thought but it will never happen in a million years.

Nor should it really.

[cragandcrop]

Hello all

What a robbery !!!

I'm french, so please excuse my English.
How can I explain at which point I am ashamed to be french tonight ?
Hot news from france :
In most all medias, this stolen victory is condemned. All the french team consultants, whose who won the '98 world cup (indeed our reference) all agree to say they are disgusted of this match, the worst ever of the french soccer team.
Most all french people are saying that the irish team played much better than us, confining our players in mostly all domains all match long.
In most all forums, in most all medias by now in france, everyone is agitated with saying that this match will leave a mark in french soccer, which will take a long time to heal if it will be the case one day.
Tonight, you would have deserved to win YOUR ticket.
It's not the case. I'd like french people expresses its excuses. I do so.
BUT : please be sure that french people love irish people and really consider that we are cousins.

[yapster]

i'm not keanes biggest fan either and don't think he is a world class finisher .. but would no way blame him for ireland not winning tonight and going to world cup .. doyle missed a great headed chance / duff missed when through on goals all equally good chances as keanes .. and don't forget his goals along the way got us so close to getting to a world cup final :ball:



I agree that keane had a good campaign and kudos to him and for his effort last night but his miss turned the game around as it gave the french renewed confidence and they controlled the game from then on. Keane & Duff have more experience at this level than Doyle and their failure to put away gilt-edged chances are the main reason Ireland are out. Yes Henry and the officals are to blame as well but the game should have been sewen yp by then. When it mattered most Keane failed to deliver. He is not a top striker and never will be.

[Morbo]

Given........7
O'Shea......7.5
Dunne.......8.5
St Ledger ..8.5
Kilbane......8
Lawrence...9
Whelan......8
Andrews....8
Duff..........9
Keane.......9
Doyle........7.5

Subs
Gibson.......6
McShane....5.5
McGeady....5.5

[soccerboy]

its gonna take a long time to get over this one...what a bitter pill to swallow!henry has gone down big time in my estimation,if he had owned up to the ref he would be forever known as a sporting gentleman,now his career will be blighted by this incident and he'll be known as a cheating *******...cant believe the linesman didnt see it,couldnt have imagined a worse way to exit,totally gutted :(

[soccerboy]

Henry is a Charaltan a Scumbag of the highest order... playing to the gallery by sitting beside dunne at Final whistle after robbing us some blantly - Hate is a strong word but I hate Thierry Henry for his handball and his pathetic pandering for the Camera at Full Time - Once a great player now Scumbag to me....

i totally agree

[soccerboy]

given 7
o'shea 7
Dunne 9
St Ledger 9
KIlbane 8
Lawrence 9
Whelan 8
Andrews 9.5
Duff 9
Keane 9
Doyle 8.5

McShane 6
Gibson 6
McGeady 5

[endabob1]

The rest of the world can now see Henry as I have seen him for years, a charlatan & a cheat who goes missing on the big occasion. Barely had a kick in 4 hours of football and had to resort to cheating, the last bastion of the scoundrel.

[theworm2345]

Given 10 --- Thanks to excellent defense he didn't have much to do but dealt with everything he could've
O'Shea 9.5 --- Nearly flawless, wish he could've buried that chance at the start of the second half or at least hit the target
Dunne 10 --- Outstanding, there really can be no complaints with his performance
St Ledger 10 --- See Dunne, this lad should be in the EPL
Kilbane 9.5 --- Made a couple of fouls close to our box but was otherwise brilliant and had a large hand in the goal
Lawrence 8.5 --- Looked lively and put in some good balls
Whelan 8 --- No complaints, tracked back well and looked good in midfield, thought that free kick was destined for the top corner. Room for improvement though.
Andrews 8.5 --- Same as Whelan but a little better
Duff 9 --- Lively as always, set up the goal, aside from a couple of minor mistakes I have no complaints, aside from missing a sitter
Keane 8.5 --- Took the goal wonderfully and looked excellent for the first 80 or so minutes but was barely seen in extra time and missed a great chance, not to mention all the handballs.
Doyle 7 --- Worked hard as always but didn't hold the ball up as often as I'd have liked nor did he win too many balls in the air. Missed a great chance as well.

McShane 5.5 --- Should've cleared the ball before the goal and looked shaky but did have some decent challenges
Gibson 5 --- No real impact, didn't do too badly but was invisible for the most part
McGeady 5 --- No impact at all, hustled well but would've rather seen Hunt.

Trapattoni 9 --- Would've been 10 had he made better subs, though not sure he left himself the options to make those subs (Reids)

Ireland 9.5 --- Excellent match all around but when you have 3.5 (.5 being O'Shea's) great chances you have to take them or you will be punished, even if the other team cheats to punish you.




Lloris 10 --- looked quite good, no spectacular saves but was solid throughout and forced Robbie out of bounds (maybe being kind, it was a bad touch)
L. Diarra and Gourcuff 2 --- Absolutely pitiful

[boysingreen]

Can't sleep. Wonder why.

Henry has the image of a gentlemen, and I bought it. Can't see him the same ever again. Like Cascarino said, he could have held his hand up. The ball didn't "hit" his hand, as he's claimed. He controlled a ball that was roaring out for a goal kick with his hand and placed it for his foot. All this while his side were on the ropes after creating little for 180 minutes, World Cup on the line. It's so objectionable you can't believe it actually happened, and worse again, with the whole world knowing how very wrong and unjust it was, it will somehow be allowed to stand.

Can somebody explain to me how Celtic, after defeating Rapid Vienna 4-3 on aggregate (1984 UEFA Cup Winner's Cup), were ordered to play a replay because a Vienna player feigned he was hit by a bottle thrown on the field (which, go figure, replays disproved.. the bottle landing a few yards away).... and yet clear-cut evidence of cheating by a player, breaking the rules of the game and changing the result of the match in the process, is swept under the rug???

[Sandro]

I took a quick look at Italian sport press this morning, most headlines are very hard or sarcastic on Henry's handball ("France rubs Trap", "Henry gives Domenech a hand"), readers' comments on the net go harsher and mention the Blatter-Platini-Adidas connection once again. France's cheating was a shame but how many will remember about that next june when the world cup starts in South Africa? That's the way it works. Some mistakes make history, others don't. In Italy nobody cared about Pazzini's sending off in Bari - still a mistery to me - but everybody is still mad at Byron Moreno, the symbol of the South Korea farce. Ireland were unlucky to find Italy and France on their way, can't believe they are not as good as Slovakia, Switzerland, Slovenia and Greece that are heading to South Africa

[jebus]

its gonna take a long time to get over this one...what a bitter pill to swallow!henry has gone down big time in my estimation,if he had owned up to the ref he would be forever known as a sporting gentleman,now his career will be blighted by this incident and he'll be known as a cheating *******...cant believe the linesman didnt see it,couldnt have imagined a worse way to exit,totally gutted :(

I think you're assuming the rest of the world gives two craps about Ireland going out to be fair

They didn't care about Henry taking a dive against Spain in the last World Cup to help knock them out they won't care, maybe won't even remember, about this by the time South Africa rolls around

[byrner01]

I'm just glad its all over , i couldn't take penalties , id have had a stroke or something . Just so so proud of our team. Most of the world was probably watching that game last night , and if they didn't know what the Irish were all about ,THEY KNOW NOW.

[saint dog]

does anyone think the FAI will (can) appeal

[SeanDrog]

unreal - move along now, nothing to see here ... lets all go to the world Cup (big teams only)

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1136903.html#final+four+through+europe

[SeanDrog]

heck even Fox news mention the hand ball

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Nov19/0,4670,SOCWCupIrelandFrance,00.html

[Duggie]

lads i dont blame henry, we would all do it. anyone of us that has played on any field has handled the ball and tried to get away with it. its normal. its the officials job to spot these decisions so its there fault. im sick today but there is nothing we can do. im so proud of our lads, so proud to be irish.

[Comic Book Guy]

does anyone think the FAI will (can) appeal

Absolute waste of time IMO, what will it take for video evidence to be introduced? It will take a big name country like Brazil or Argentina to be done out of the WC the same way we have been done. THen you would see big name sponsors like Nike and Addidas up in arms.
I thought the best comment on last night was in a vox pop of Irish fans after the match where one said if that was Fair play then FIFa can stick their world cup.
I am a firm believer in Karma. I can remember France qualifying for the WC in 82 at Ireland's expense by some dodgy refereeing. They were then done out of it by some outrageous refereeing in the semi final. What goes round comes around. Scant consolation I know but its all I can do to console myself.

[as_i_say]

The worst thing about this whole mess is that this is exactly what FIFA wanted and everyone knows this. We will probably never know why the linesman didnt put up his flag for the offside first and then the first handball then the second. I have no doubt he saw it and the second he saw it, he made a split second descision, thought of those who pay his wages and kept his flag down.

FIFA have gotten their way. Its a sad indictment on the state of international football at a time when there is evidence to suggest that many pro footballers out there do not value playing for their country as much as raking it in at club level.

My main sense of regret is overwhelmingly the fact that we didnt finish them off in the 90 minutes when they were a total mess and as great as the likes of Keane have been for us, we dont have that world class edge. The type of player who would have rounded Loris and calmly stroked it in.

I've always thought Henry was a knut anyway.

[Billsthoughts]

Great Irish performance last night. My mate was tellin me headline in Spanish paper was "Irish robbed by hand of Platini!" Sums it up.

When you read about the blatant cheating that used to go on in the old days(82 WC campaign etc) you never think it would happen nowadays.

Anyways proud of the way the team played in both legs.

[Only1Rovers]

unreal - move along now, nothing to see here ... lets all go to the world Cup (big teams only)

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1136903.html#final+four+through+europe

Don't know how Hugo Lloris was given the Man of the Match accolade. He's a top class keeper but surely Liam Laurence or Andrews put in the best performance on the pitch on the night.

[markmc]

Michel Platini will be in Dublin for the UEFA cup final when its played here.........

[Fixer82]

I don't really think Henry had too much time to think about it. I don't think he controlled it a second time. Watch it in real time. It's a split second. His hand was right beside his knee.

But how did the linesman miss it?

as someone said earlier, this won't matter a dot to FIFA. Video refereeing will only be brought in when one of the big guns (England, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, Italy) are cheated in the same way

[amaccann]

does anyone think the FAI will (can) appeal
Wasn't an FA cup match - possibly involving Arsenal - replayed once because the winning goal was taken off a thrown-in that was the result of an injury (ie, it was meant to be thrown back to the opposition, but instead they went ahead and scored a goal)

I'm gutted & angry. That was the most blatant handball since the Hand of God & for any official to defend the result is to make a mockery of the sport. As far as I am concerned the question of video evidence is now irrefutable, it HAS to come in.

[old git]

unreal - move along now, nothing to see here ... lets all go to the world Cup (big teams only)

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1136903.html#final+four+through+europe

taking the p*** alright read it last night biggest joke is the key moment section they have the neck to ignore handball incident :mad: and these people are supposed to be overseeing / controling football

[Fixer82]

lads forget about it. not a chance this will ne replayed. FAI should lodge an official complaint for the record but it won't achieve anything concrete for us unfortunately...other than maybe Platini saying we're sour grapes

[Fixer82]

I actually thought Doyle was quite poor. he worked his sock off without a doubt. For work-rate and effort he was second to none. but his passing and touch I thought were poor and left me screaming at the telly a few times and I don't know how many times he slipped, tripped over. No real option on the bench to replace him though with Folan out injured....

Well done lads. You did us proud!!!

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

lads i dont blame henry, we would all do it. anyone of us that has played on any field has handled the ball and tried to get away with it. its normal. its the officials job to spot these decisions so its there fault. im sick today but there is nothing we can do. im so proud of our lads, so proud to be irish.

Yep- sums it up. Robbie handled it twice but was caught. However I will have a go at Anelka for his blatant dive over Shay to try and win a peno - should have been a red. Henry's touch was more instinctive compared to deliberate cheating from Anelka.

[Giuly]

Sorry for Ireland, now for sure within 15 days nobody except you will remember this. If it was at the other end you'd be congratulating each other. We had our bad times too (France-Germany 1982, France Bulgaria 1993....) . Referee's bad, not french. Good luck

[SeanDrog]

great if you could tranlsate the topline views

http://www.lequipe.fr/

[Fixer82]

Thanks Giuly. i think it's the linesman more so than the ref. We all feel we've been gutted like a fish! hard to swallow!

[smasher]

Sorry for Ireland, now for sure within 15 days nobody except you will remember this. If it was at the other end you'd be congratulating each other. We had our bad times too (France-Germany 1982, France Bulgaria 1993....) . Referee's bad, not french. Good luck

Last night had nothing to do with Schumachers foul on Battiston in 1982!

[Scram]

robbie was fantastic worked his ass of :D but if he was world class he would have scored instead of trying to take ball round keeper .

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