Is this harsh/realistic

[an_ceannaire]

Lets put all national Loyalty aside for one second here lads and be honest
Given - Quality, no question. Top 10 in the world
Kilbane - Horror Show, Brutal, Useless, Liability
Dunne - Decent, error prone, gives it his all. Strong in the air
Sledge - Championship standard. No more.
Josh - Decent but also very error prone when in possesion. Has an awful tendancy to just hoof it when in green
Duff - More past it than Bill Hicks. Move over and let McGeady in
Whelan - Has a good shot and will run all day, but sure so would half the country
Andrews - Useless. Simple as
Lawrence - Decent. Should take Andrews spot in the middle as is made to play Centre Mid. Good in possesion. Can actually use the ball...cant believe Trap likes him! Shock!
Doyle - The ball goes up...the ball comes back...the ball goes up...the ball comes back.....EXTREMELY over rated!
Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box.
Subs
Hunt - Comedy Gold
McGeady - Bags of talent, needs to get a consistent run in the team. To think we can leave him out is laughable.
McShame - Nuff said......
Best - No your not....
Folan - If he had a pineapple on his head he would be Jason Lee

[Duggie]

stupid stupid thread and this proves it..should be locked and deleted by a mod.

Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box.

[Fizzer]

an ceannaire - wind-up merchant. Spends a significant amount of time opening new threads re-covering issues which have been covered at length on other threads but injecting such ridiculous propositions that others feel obliged to respond

[as_i_say]

:D. Ceann-nothing like a bit of comedy in the morning. Kudos!

[sean_irl]

stupid stupid thread and this proves it..should be locked and deleted by a mod.



Agree .... no place for this type of crap

[Murfinator]

A cynic could argue most of those points except for Duff and McGeady where I think no matter who you are that's entirely unfair on both them.

Duff is not passed it, is having a great season for Fulham and has been ever consistent for us. I mean it's clear to see he retains possession better than anyone else on the pitch.

McGeady is overrated, has never done it for us and outside of one great season for Celtic has been inconsistent for them. Probably 4th choice winger at the moment and that isn't undeserved.

[as_i_say]

Duff's possession retention is a very good point. Unfortunately his first instinct now when getting the ball is to turn and pass back. Never more evident than on saturday night

[Murfinator]

Was it more evident on saturday before or after he skinned Sagna and left him for dead? Or maybe when he backheeled a 1-2 pass with Doyle?

Maybe he's cautious, but that's no bad thing. I'd rather caution than him be another McGeady and lose possession 90% of the time he tries to do something.

[Scram]

an ceannaire - wind-up merchant. Spends a significant amount of time opening new threads re-covering issues which have been covered at length on other threads but injecting such ridiculous propositions that others feel obliged to respond

Yes, a troll, and THE THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED.

[peadar1987]

Given - Quality, no question. Top 10 in the world
Kilbane - Works hard, gets stuck in, makes it difficult for the opposition to get a decent ball in and people should stop slating him for an unlucky deflection against Bulgaria
Dunne - Decent, error prone, gives it his all. Strong in the air
Sledge - Lots of potential. Don't write him off
Josh - Solid for us.
Duff - Is playing really well for Fulham. It looks like Roy Hodgson is getting out of him what the comedy team at Newcastle couldn't
Whelan - Is one of Stoke's best midfielders, and is improving all the time. Works hard, tracks back, and has decent distribution
Andrews - Another hard worker, but tends to give the ball away
Lawrence - Is not a central midfielder. He has never played there for Stoke or Ireland. He's a wide player with great fitness and work ethic, and who is good from set pieces.
Doyle - Good in the air and a good finisher, by no means a world-beater, but he's good
Keane - Is sometimes frustrating to watch, but the statistics speak for themselves on his record for Ireland
Subs
Hunt - Makes a nuisance of himself, which is a tactical option that can be valuable
McGeady - Lots of talent, but loses the ball too much to be a safe option against a team that can break as lethally as the French. Would be a good option if we ended up chasing the game.
McShame - Decent back-up player for us. His reputation has been hurt by playing at full back rather than his better position of centre half
Best - A blunt instrument up front. If we're chasing a goal in the last ten minutes and need a target man, he could be useful
Folan - See Best

I can't believe I took the time to reply to this. Get behind the lads or shut up. If you're going to do a hatchet job on our team, don't do it the morning of our biggest game in 7 years.

[antrimgreen]

BORING THREAD, IRISH SUPPORTER I THINK NOT, CLOSE THIS THREAD NOW, ON A DAY WE NEED TO BE POSITIVE

Forget all what has went before we have 90 minutes to prove our worth!!!! COME ON YOU BOYS IN GREEN!!!!!

[Buzzer]

[QUOTE=Duggie;1275654]stupid stupid thread and this proves it..should be locked and deleted by a mod.

I agree. These players have got us to the playoff and should be credited not criticised. This is a depressing and negative thread and should be closed.

[saint dog]

doesn't even deserve a reply .......dam

[Emmet7]

Sometimes you have to be harsh/realistic.

I think Trap has done a top job getting us where we are. He's done it largely through a defensive mindset which although it appears negative at times has meant we are never more than one goal behind a team in a match such as against Italy in Bari.

It's amazing to think that if it wasn't for 2 or 3 basic defensive errors we could have won the group and I have a feeling those defensive errors will ultimately cost us qualification.

France are a better team than Italy and we should have put the Italians and the Bulgarians to the sword when we had the chance.

We are now left facing a very tough resiliant and talented French team with bags of talent while we on the other hand realistically have mid-table premiership players.

Trap has done well but is probably finding now the limits of the players at his disposal. I think he found early in the campaign our midfielders or forwards were never going to score freely and our only chance was to defend and hold out for draws or nick a goal at setpieces.

People say Shay Given is world class, but he did let in 4 soft ones against Man Utd in the derby and has a major weak spot from high crosses. I don't think he is world class but he has played out of his skin a few times. Richard Dunne is good but hardly world class. And a lot of Robbie Keane's goals came from the penalty spot while more than half the rest came against teams like Cyprus, San Marino, Georgia and so on. I don't think he is world class either.

So unlike the French, we have no world class players.

[peadar1987]

We are now left facing a very tough resiliant and talented French team with bags of talent while we on the other hand realistically have mid-table premiership players.

Just ask Burnley and Man United what can be done with mid-table Premiership players!

[Emmet7]

Just ask Burnley and Man United what can be done with mid-table Premiership players!

Fair point and the goal that sank Man Utd was a cracker.

However, arguably France are a better team than Man Utd. All the top international teams are better because they have the pick of the best players in the country.

[endabob1]

Or Man Utd are better because they spend 11 months of the year together working on traning drills, set pieces etc.. whereas France etc.. get 3 days 5/6 time s a year.

The best players don't always make the best team, I'd rather SAF in charge than Domenech.

To answer the initial question, it's very harsh and basically untrue, I know it's a game of opinions, but I'll take a couple as samples;
Andrews - Useless. Simple as
Considering he is a professinal in one of the top leagues in world football and was arguably the most effectiveplayer on the park for the first hour last week sugggests otherwise.
Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box.
http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_Keane#International_goals
Has scored more than his share for club and country.

Duff - More past it than Bill Hicks. Move over and let McGeady in
Anelka aside, Duff was the most threatening player on the park at the weekend, may have lost some pace but is as tricky as ever and has an end product that McGeady still needs to get to.

[DeLorean]

People say Shay Given is world class, but he did let in 4 soft ones against Man Utd in the derby

Do you even remember the goals? I think you just saw that he conceded four and thought that's bad. It could have been 7 or 8 only for him that day, he was actually inspired. Two point blank headers from Fletcher, Rooney finishing from about 6 yards and Owen placing it perfectly in the corner, they were soft from City's points of view, not Givens. As far as I'm concerned he's our only player that is undisputably world class and it would take you to dispute it. How anyone could be watching Ireland for the last decade and not agree is beyond me.

[Leeside Swagger]

Given - Quality, no question. Top 1 in the world


Fixed:D

[an_ceannaire]

Why is it everytime someone says something that’s not uber-positive in here, you’re a WUM! What kind of crap is that!! Its North Korea some of ye belong in..!! Ye want to shut the thread cos ye don’t agree…..Kim Jong Il would love some of ye!! Get over yourselves for the love of God!! :rolleyes:
The LOI is poor fare....He's a WUM!
Shay Given is not the best keeper in the world - He's a WUM
Irish Fans are not all that "world renowned" - He's a WUM
Ireland are not really all that good - He's a WUM...shut him up....censor him!!!
etc etc etc etc...

[endabob1]

No need for hysterics just support your arguments with facts. Clearly it's a game of differing opinions but;

Hunt - Comedy Gold
McShame - Nuff said......
Best - No your not....

If you're going to criticise players do it with facts and analysis, not 2 word derogatory soundbites. It makes you sound like a BNP candidate blaming everything on the immigrants and being unable to substantiate their view with any kind of evidence.

[youngirish]

Why is it everytime someone says something that’s not uber-positive in here, you’re a WUM! What kind of crap is that!! Its North Korea some of ye belong in..!! Ye want to shut the thread cos ye don’t agree…..Kim Jong Il would love some of ye!! Get over yourselves for the love of God!! :rolleyes:
The LOI is poor fare....He's a WUM!
Shay Given is not the best keeper in the world - He's a WUM
Irish Fans are not all that "world renowned" - He's a WUM
Ireland are not really all that good - He's a WUM...shut him up....censor him!!!
etc etc etc etc...
While I don't agree with all your assessments of our players I do think some of the rubbish you see spouted on here when someone goes against the grain (either rightly or wrongly) belongs more in Nuremberg 1933 than a modern day football forum on the internet.

[CMcC]

Lets put all national Loyalty aside for one second here lads and be honest
Given - Quality, no question. Top 10 in the world
Kilbane - Horror Show, Brutal, Useless, Liability
Dunne - Decent, error prone, gives it his all. Strong in the air
Sledge - Championship standard. No more.
Josh - Decent but also very error prone when in possesion. Has an awful tendancy to just hoof it when in green
Duff - More past it than Bill Hicks. Move over and let McGeady in
Whelan - Has a good shot and will run all day, but sure so would half the country
Andrews - Useless. Simple as
Lawrence - Decent. Should take Andrews spot in the middle as is made to play Centre Mid. Good in possesion. Can actually use the ball...cant believe Trap likes him! Shock!
Doyle - The ball goes up...the ball comes back...the ball goes up...the ball comes back.....EXTREMELY over rated!
Keane - Decent club player, scores against mediocre teams (Italy excluded, whats rare is wonderful) Spends more time on the wing swinging his arms than actually in the opposition box.
Subs
Hunt - Comedy Gold
McGeady - Bags of talent, needs to get a consistent run in the team. To think we can leave him out is laughable.
McShame - Nuff said......
Best - No your not....
Folan - If he had a pineapple on his head he would be Jason Lee

To be fair to him I would agree with his assesment of Given, Dunne, St Ledger, O'Shea, Whelan ( to an extent), Lawrence (the decent bit), Doyle (minus the extremely over rated bit).

The dogs on the street know Kilbane is gone. Nobody can fault his committment and loyalty and he has had many great days for us. Not any more though.

Disagree with Duff. Retains the ball better than anyone on the pitch for us. Not the player he was at Chelsea but thats a long time ago now - miles and injuries on the clock haven't helped but definate starter for me.

Andrews has grown on me. Like his attitude, tackling and his ability to get around the pitch. He does his job well enough. Will never be a world beater though but thats fine. You get what you see. Would like to see him along side Stephen Reid.

Keane is ok. For me always a 2nd striker at a top half Premier league team. Liable to get you one though. Can finish. Nobody in our squad can compete with his tally for club and country.

As for the subs well we dont have strength in depth - especially up front. The positive is they are young and hopefully will develop and improve.

Hunt is a good goer and will try all day - can deliver a cross (probably better than McGeady).

MeGeady however is a difficult one. He's a winger who cannot get crosses in and doesnt have enough pace to beat decent full backs in a race. So what does he actually bring or do. Definate one to spring from the bench with licence to roam if you are going to play him at all. But no way should he get in ahead of Duff or Lawrence on current form.

[twoenz]

Do you even remember the goals? I think you just saw that he conceded four and thought that's bad. It could have been 7 or 8 only for him that day, he was actually inspired. Two point blank headers from Fletcher, Rooney finishing from about 6 yards and Owen placing it perfectly in the corner, they were soft from City's points of view, not Givens. As far as I'm concerned he's our only player that is undisputably world class and it would take you to dispute it. How anyone could be watching Ireland for the last decade and not agree is beyond me.



Just to back this up: have a wee read of the following minute by minute between 1456 and 1507: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8265326.stm

I'm surprised that Shay didn't cut his hands off, or at least have the decency to wear a red shirt if he was throwing the game that much.

Whilst there's some truth in the opening post, we all know that we have some limitations, but now's the time to accentuate the positives. You don't sit on the morning of your wedding going "Mary's got lovely eyes, but her love handles are getting out of hand, and both the bridesmaids look much better".

Jason McAteer didn't have a club when he scored against Holland. Out of 92 managers in England, they all thought he was past it, and not worth signing. Then look what happened. Let's do the post mortem when the patient's dead. In about 8 months time.

[Fizzer]

Why is it everytime someone says something that’s not uber-positive in here, you’re a WUM! What kind of crap is that!! Its North Korea some of ye belong in..!! Ye want to shut the thread cos ye don’t agree…..Kim Jong Il would love some of ye!! Get over yourselves for the love of God!! :rolleyes:
The LOI is poor fare....He's a WUM!
Shay Given is not the best keeper in the world - He's a WUM
Irish Fans are not all that "world renowned" - He's a WUM
Ireland are not really all that good - He's a WUM...shut him up....censor him!!!
etc etc etc etc...

You're right an ceannaire, you should indeed be permitted to spout any oul done-to-death, boring drivel that you wish. Please continue to do so

[Wolfie]

Why is it everytime someone says something that’s not uber-positive in here, you’re a WUM! What kind of crap is that!! Its North Korea some of ye belong in..!! Ye want to shut the thread cos ye don’t agree…..Kim Jong Il would love some of ye!! Get over yourselves for the love of God!! :rolleyes:
The LOI is poor fare....He's a WUM!
Shay Given is not the best keeper in the world - He's a WUM
Irish Fans are not all that "world renowned" - He's a WUM
Ireland are not really all that good - He's a WUM...shut him up....censor him!!!
etc etc etc etc...

Spout away - we're all well aware that the team has limitations. You've had all year to post this, why now?

You're missing the point to a spectacular degree.

Its a pre-requisite of supporting this team that you'll be painfully aware that we've some limited players - but you'll support them all the more for it.

The sense of achievement is heightened when you compete against the odds.

Never thought I'd quote this, but to paraphrase our Norn Iron posters:

"We're not Brazil - we're Ireland" :)

[weldoninhio]

Realistic. Some posters on here think that just because a footballer is in the Irish squad, he can do no wrong. And if you point out a flaw you are a traitor and should be brought out and shot!!.

[Scram]

The MORON who started this thread should be ignored for ever more

[peadar1987]

Given- wasn't worked, but did his job when pressed
Kilbane- Great game, solid at the back, and rarely gave the ball away
Dunne- Won everything in the air, and a lot on the ground
Sledge- Cracker of a game, looked like he was everywhere, dealt with Anelka's pace with ease, and blocked a shot with his face.
O'Shea- Extremely solid till he had to go off
Duff- Ran tirelessly, worked some great openings, and terrific desire to reach that ball for the goal
Whelan- The best I've seen him play in an Ireland shirt. Great distribution, and a real nuisance when the French had the ball
Andrews- Had a shaky start and gave the ball away a few times, but had a solid game otherwise
Lawrence- Some great balls into the box, important tracking back, and ran himself into the ground
Keane- Missed a sitter, but created acres of space for himself for the goal. Squillacci will be having nightmares about him for months
Doyle- Won almost every header he went up for, held the ball up brilliantly, and didn't give it away much, despite not having much support

So put that in your pipe and do whatever the hell you like with it.

[drummerboy]

I think the majority of this team will be sticking around for another campaign so on a positive note I think we will be a force in the Euros

[Buzzer]

The MORON who started this thread should be ignored for ever more

It just goes to show that he knows nothing about football and the abilities of players.

[an_ceannaire]

we are looking for excuses here lads….truth is, the game should have been over ever before it got to that stage. We had numerous chances to win that game, and we blew it. Its not sensationalism, it’s the truth. Cone out of the fog lads. We are looking for people to blame. And for the record, every single player was heroic last night, except McGeady who I wanted to strangle. Even if I do rate him. But so be it.....c'est la vie. Heads up boys, ye we magnificent. Just lacked the killer edge.

[Ozymandias]

Why is it everytime someone says something that’s not uber-positive in here, you’re a WUM! What kind of crap is that!! Its North Korea some of ye belong in..!! Ye want to shut the thread cos ye don’t agree…..Kim Jong Il would love some of ye!! Get over yourselves for the love of God!! :rolleyes:
The LOI is poor fare....He's a WUM!
Shay Given is not the best keeper in the world - He's a WUM
Irish Fans are not all that "world renowned" - He's a WUM
Ireland are not really all that good - He's a WUM...shut him up....censor him!!!
etc etc etc etc...

An Ceannaire....... WUM ....10/10