Promoting Irish football

[rebus2008]

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Under the contract between the FAI and the GAA for the use of Croke Park, the FAI are precluded from promoting the game of association football within the confines of Croke Park. This was a stipulation the GAA insisted on during negotiations.

"Precluding from promoting the game of association of football"
I would have thought that agreeing(and rightly so) to hold matches for 80k fans in modern stadium was hardly precluding the promotion of either football or rugby?

In fairness, guys with chips on shoulders will never be happy:
- they moaned before rules were changed that they weren't allowed play in croker
- they moaned about the pitch but italy and france both seemed to cope
- they bitched then that stadium wasn't suitable for great atmosphere. Italy/france matches have proven that it wasn't a stadium issue but a fan issue

- now that the LOI champions weren't paraded (unfortuantely most would pick glenn close out of line up before they'd spot glenn crowe), its the gaa fault.
Were they ever paraded in the old landsdowne? I don't recall it happneing at any match I was at.
It would certainly be worth doing I think.
Of more beneift would be if FAI had highlights package on big screens that showed best goals of month etc from LOI and decent crowds from the likes of Tallaght etc.

[sixesandsevens]

What's the point in trying to promote the LOI to the barstoolers?

Better to promote it to 'real football fans' - encourage fans of english and scottish teams to come over here, in their off season, and get back to proper football. Course if this was successful we might have to deal with the barstoolers, cos if the english like it... :o (but that's probably a discussion for that other thread)


Isn't that exactly the people the LOI should trying to promote the league to? Wouldn't the majority of the 'real football fans' in Ireland already be following the league.
But just looking through this particular thread the one thing that astounds me is the absolute paranoia of the GAA! The trouble that the LOI has found itself in over the last few years really should convince the gah that they're not in direct competition with the league. Its totally insane that they allow the Irish team, comprising almost entirely of EPL players (a league thats a real threat to young kids playing GAA) to play in Croker but refuse to allow the FAI promote a league that half the country either don't know or care (unfortunately) about.

[osarusan]

Isn't that exactly the people the LOI should trying to promote the league to? Wouldn't the majority of the 'real football fans' in Ireland already be following the league.

I agree, and I've argued this repeatedly on this site.

The attitude that "we don't want barstoolers at our games" never ceases to amaze me. On the one hand claiming that barstoolers not being interested in LOI is the reason the league is so crap, on the other hand saying we don't want them near LOI grounds.

If we reject the tens of thousands who are interested in football, just not domestic football, who are we left with? People who don't like football at all.

[thischarmingman]

The attitude that "we don't want barstoolers at our games" never ceases to amaze me. On the one hand claiming that barstoolers not being interested in LOI is the reason the league is so crap, on the other hand saying we don't want them near LOI grounds.


Honestly, I've never found this attitude to be that strong either on this site, or at games. From what I can see most people would love to see more people at their clubs games. Yes, coming up to cup finals and big matches there's naturally the odd moan about how loads of blow-ins have stolen someone's usual seats, but there's no real malice involved. And it's certainly not a general attitude.

I genuinely can't think of many examples of people saying we don't want new fans at games. I think it's an excuse used by people who don't go to games. If you're a so-called 'bar-stooler' and you go to a LOI match what are you afraid of might happen? Someone might ask you to name the number nine? Or to recite the 1969 cup-winning starting lineup? There are many poor excuses for not going but elitism isn't just a poor excuse, it's not a excuse at all.

[osarusan]

Honestly, I've never found this attitude to be that strong either on this site, or at games. From what I can see most people would love to see more people at their clubs games. Yes, coming up to cup finals and big matches there's naturally the odd moan about how loads of blow-ins have stolen someone's usual seats, but there's no real malice involved. And it's certainly not a general attitude.


I'm just talking about here on Foot.



I genuinely can't think of many examples of people saying we don't want new fans at games. I think it's an excuse used by people who don't go to games. If you're a so-called 'bar-stooler' and you go to a LOI match what are you afraid of might happen? Someone might ask you to name the number nine? Or to recite the 1969 cup-winning starting lineup? There are many poor excuses for not going but elitism isn't just a poor excuse, it's not a excuse at all.
I've honestly never heard anybody make that excuse. The reason I've heard most often is that it's crap.

[Nedser]

I'm just talking about here on Foot.

To be honest, I think it's just a reaction to the Barstoolers saying they wouldn't go if they were paid. When someone says something like that, it's just human nature (if a little childish) to respond with "Well we wouldn't want you anyway!". I doubt if that's what many people really think.

To clarify my own views, I said there's no point in worrying about people who say they wouldn't go if they were paid, as they just don't get it and therefore they're never going to be converted. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like them to be converted though.

An important point is that we don't just have die hard LOI fans on one side and die hard LOI-hating barstoolers on the other. There is a whole spectrum in between, and it's the people in the middle that we should be concentrating our efforts on.

[thischarmingman]

I'm just talking about here on Foot.


I've honestly never heard anybody make that excuse. The reason I've heard most often is that it's crap.

I was talking about Foot.ie too, I read your post as implying that barstoolers weren't going to games because they were put off by an elitist "We don't want barstoolers" attitude, apologies if that's not what you meant, perhaps I joined the dots too quickly.

That said, I do still believe that there is not much evidence of that attitude from LOI fans on foot.ie. As someone commented on another thread, most LOI fans would love to support a club that's part of a bandwagon! Aside from the odd (understandable) digs at people who 'support' Liverpool over Bray, I don't think people actually actively don't want these people coming to games.

[Colbert Report]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.

[Colbert Report]

Are those matches you play in total rubbish too?

Absolutely they are, total rubbish. The only people that come to watch us play are wives/girlfriends and other family members. My team plays what I think is an attractive, attacking style of football on the ground but I still wouldn't ask or expect anyone to bear through ninety minutes of it when they can go home and watch Real Madrid vs. Barcelona live on GOLTV.

[osarusan]

Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.
But crap football in freezing conditions is every bit as much football as Real vs Barca games. Are you as "true" a football fan as somebody who will watch the former as well as the latter? You would not appear to be the same kind of fan as them.

I'm sure that I enjoy watching Barca v Real as much as anybody else, but the enjoyment derived from that is nothing compared the feeling I got when Limerick beat Waterford 2-1 about a month ago.

Is it fair to say that, rather than being a fan of a particular team, you are instead a fan of the beauty of the game itself? There's no doubt that there is more beauty to be found in leagues other than the LOI, but if you support a specific team, you'll find as much passion and determination in the LOI as any other league. I see no correlation whatsoever between the quality of football a team plays and the passion of the team's supporters (if they are true supporters of the team).

[Hairy Bowsie]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.

All these big fancy teams you watch, in England or elsewhere, how do you think they got here 100+ years on? It wasn't by people in other countries watching them on the tele or flying over for a game, thats for sure. When they all started out, the only people that watched them were locals, the people of that area, that they represented. If the locals didn't go to watch Barca back then, they wouldn't be here now, so you can jump on the bandwagon. Thats what football was about, until you and your ilk helped ruin it.

[bennocelt]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.

:o - wow that's commitment!
But a good few of us on here watch lot of football, play the game or coach it, and read up on it all the time AND go to local games

[pineapple stu]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.
Why would you sit through the crap that was Ireland v Montenegro when you could watch Brazil live on telly?

[sixesandsevens]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.

Fair enough its your perogative to watch/support whatever team you choose and good luck to you with them. But I just don't understand when someone says to me that the LOI is a poor standard of football when these same people have never gone to a match in their lives, or even seen a LOI tie on TV.
Obviously you won't see the same level of skill in the league (no Messi's or Ronaldo's) as La Liga or the EPL, but some of the worst games of football I've ever seen have come from those two competitions. But saying that the league is of a poor standard is way off the mark. Just look at the players now playing in the EPL who came from the LOI - Kevin Doyle, Keith Fahy, etc. shows the standard is there and foreign clubs know they can find quality in the league. They weren't the first the won't be the last, Irish clubs can developing quality players and I'm sure more players will go to England on ever increasing transfer fees in the future.
The misconception of the league being of a poor standard is purely down to a lack of coverage and a lack of knowledge. What the league needs to improve on most is the small attendances at games but overcoming such misconceptions are proving difficult.

[Nedser]

I'm someone who is mad about football. I play it myself and/or watch it on television every single day of my life, sometimes both, especially on weekends. Don't accuse me of not being a "true" fan of the game because I have no interest in freezing my arse off watching a poor standard of football like the MLS or LOI.

Does playing football make you a true fan of football? No.

Does watching football on tv make you a true fan of football? No.

So I will happily accuse you of not being a "true" fan of the game. Back to bandwagonjumpers.ie with you.

[CMcC]

Sorry if I come across as a wind-up artist. I'm being serious. The top leagues here in Canada are total rubbish, so I have no interest in watching them unless I know someone off of one of the top teams, which I usually do. Any LOI club would come out here and destroy all the top teams. Unfortunately, the same can be said for English vs. Irish football. Any Premiership team could come to Ireland and destroy all the teams in Ireland.

I guess I've grown accustomed to watching football on television because the weather out here is not condusive to going out and watching football every week. It is simply too cold or else not available to watch most weekends.

I tried watching the MLS Cup Western final last week, and I had to turn it off. Even my girlfriend who knows nothing about football but who has been watching the EPL with me on Saturday mornings commented on how terrible it was to watch. Players couldn't string five passes together without coughing the ball up. Why would I waste my time on such a terrible product when I can switch over to Setanta and watch Chelsea vs. Manchester United? Don't tell me I'm not a lover of the beautiful game - I watch at least four or five full length matches every week, along with playing and training at least three times a week myself.


Sorry Colbert, you do sound like a WUM at worst. A cliche at best. The post above is just too contrived to be taken seriously. Someone who uses the weather as an excuse to avoid watching live football, or someone who bases support of a side on how sucessful or how far up the table they are is not a football supporter. Its just cliched textbook barstoller behaviour and yoru post is too classic to not be a wind up.

At the risk of preaching to the converted on this forum. Someone who sits on their arse and prefers to get their football fix from their living room is not a football supporter. At best they are a fan.....a fan of the game of football but certainly not a supporter of a football team.

If you dont have a team in a league initially its always going to be easy to dismiss the standard of the play if it looks worse than what you watch on TV. The passion of just being so into the moment supporting YOUR team is missing. If however you have ties to a team, go regularly and really start to care its amazing how the passion and the feeling will grow. It will get to the stage that you dont care about the standard of the league as long as you beat so and so this season and finish as far up this sub-standard league as you can.

If your own team - who I assume is playing in the english Premier division fell on hard times and went down a division or two (a la Leeds Utd) would you stop being a fan because League 1 football is by your definition crap compared to the Premier League. I suspect you may.

Using standards of play to define and justify the team people support always baffles me. By that definition nobody should support any team outside the top 4 in England, Top 2 in Spain etc. Certainly nobody in Scotland or indeed Ireland should support the Old Firm as the Premier league is much better. Nobody in France should go to French League games as Spain and Englands top boys are far superior. Ditto Holland, Belgium etc etc etc. The hordes of Serie A supports should burn their Juve, Milan & Inter shirts and pledge alliegence to Man U, Chelsea and Barca. And lets not start talking about the poor Carlisle, Shrewsbury, Doncaster Rovers and Nottingham Forrest supporters.

The utter devestation I have felt by conceding a last minute winner against our biggest rivals or the sheer elation and pride I have felt by watching as my side win in Europe cannot be explained to someone who has not invested so much time and emotion into going regularly to see their side perform. Its just not the same sport when you are looking in on TV at 'your' side, who you probably have seen in the flesh a handful of times at best. How can you feel part of it. I will never get it.

[irishultra]

simply the irish media is to blame. i think before ireland matches loi fans should create a scene or saving that at ireland games demand that a section be reserved for loi fans, in that section loi club flags would be flown high.

[Dillonman]

simply the irish media is to blame. i think before ireland matches loi fans should create a scene or saving that at ireland games demand that a section be reserved for loi fans, in that section loi club flags would be flown high.

DId they not do that when Kerr was the manager, so many tickets where given to LOI clubs on the basis that they brough flags with them which most where supposed to have eben provided to the clubs by the FAI(duno if true) and they had to take these flags to Ireland games to add colour to the atmosphere!

[Riddickcule]

In fairness there's a lot more the fai could do to promote the Loi.

My great idea is - you have to be a member of a loi supporters club to get first access to Oireland tickets

[A N Mouse]

In fairness there's a lot more the fai could do to promote the Loi.

My great idea is - you have to be a member of a loi supporters club to get first access to Oireland tickets

You might be setting your sights too high.

The ability to differentiate the thing you lean on from the thing you sit on should be a higher priority.

Fed up today hearing about how there's not enough strength in depth in the irish squad and how people will have to support whoever england are playing - from the people who look down on loi football. :(

[BohDiddley]

Absolutely they are, total rubbish. The only people that come to watch us play are wives/girlfriends and other family members. My team plays what I think is an attractive, attacking style of football on the ground but I still wouldn't ask or expect anyone to bear through ninety minutes of it when they can go home and watch Real Madrid vs. Barcelona live on GOLTV.
Then by your own logic, and that of the kneejerk critics of LoI quality, you should simply give up. You can get better social stimulus in the pub, and riding a bike will provide exercise and not ruin your knees.
But of course, you don't claim its validity on the basis of quality alone, and neither does LoI. Any LoI supporter can watch as much Barca/ManU/Celtic as you can.

[Acornvilla]

mabe members of supporters clubs should get first option on tickets and possibly a 10% discount on price??

[gustavo]

Any mention on RTE's coverage of the match last night of their upcoming coverage of the Cup Final on Sunday? I know they managed to advertise their CL games next week and of course Premier Soccer Saturday

[Schumi]

Any mention on RTE's coverage of the match last night of their upcoming coverage of the Cup Final on Sunday? I know they managed to advertise their CL games next week and of course Premier Soccer Saturday

There was a mention of the game on a scrolling thing at the bottom of the screen four or five times.

[galwayjames]

Any mention on RTE's coverage of the match last night of their upcoming coverage of the Cup Final on Sunday? I know they managed to advertise their CL games next week and of course Premier Soccer Saturday

yeah they mentioned it after an ad break

[Jinxy]

Maybe it's not so much about saying the FAI can't promote LOI soccer on the big screens as it is about the GAA wanting hurling and football to be promoted to a "non-GAA" audience.
I'm well aware that loads of GAA fans go to soccer and rugby internationals but there would be plenty there that aren't GAA fans too.
They are a captive audience.
I presume the same stipulation applies during the breaks in rugby games.

[Schumi]

There's no GAA advertising at either sport, unless inflicting the Artane Boys' Band on rugby fans counts.

[Riddickcule]

Out of the 15,000 irishmen and women who were present in the stade de farce (lol)

Btw i saw a bray shirt in the crowd, no joke!

[Magicme]

Yeah it scrolled along the bottom a few times.

[Colbert Report]

Sorry Colbert, you do sound like a WUM at worst. A cliche at best. The post above is just too contrived to be taken seriously. Someone who uses the weather as an excuse to avoid watching live football, or someone who bases support of a side on how sucessful or how far up the table they are is not a football supporter. Its just cliched textbook barstoller behaviour and yoru post is too classic to not be a wind up.

At the risk of preaching to the converted on this forum. Someone who sits on their arse and prefers to get their football fix from their living room is not a football supporter. At best they are a fan.....a fan of the game of football but certainly not a supporter of a football team.

If you dont have a team in a league initially its always going to be easy to dismiss the standard of the play if it looks worse than what you watch on TV. The passion of just being so into the moment supporting YOUR team is missing. If however you have ties to a team, go regularly and really start to care its amazing how the passion and the feeling will grow. It will get to the stage that you dont care about the standard of the league as long as you beat so and so this season and finish as far up this sub-standard league as you can.

If your own team - who I assume is playing in the english Premier division fell on hard times and went down a division or two (a la Leeds Utd) would you stop being a fan because League 1 football is by your definition crap compared to the Premier League. I suspect you may.

Using standards of play to define and justify the team people support always baffles me. By that definition nobody should support any team outside the top 4 in England, Top 2 in Spain etc. Certainly nobody in Scotland or indeed Ireland should support the Old Firm as the Premier league is much better. Nobody in France should go to French League games as Spain and Englands top boys are far superior. Ditto Holland, Belgium etc etc etc. The hordes of Serie A supports should burn their Juve, Milan & Inter shirts and pledge alliegence to Man U, Chelsea and Barca. And lets not start talking about the poor Carlisle, Shrewsbury, Doncaster Rovers and Nottingham Forrest supporters.

The utter devestation I have felt by conceding a last minute winner against our biggest rivals or the sheer elation and pride I have felt by watching as my side win in Europe cannot be explained to someone who has not invested so much time and emotion into going regularly to see their side perform. Its just not the same sport when you are looking in on TV at 'your' side, who you probably have seen in the flesh a handful of times at best. How can you feel part of it. I will never get it.


Obviously you've never been to Canada mate. It is fecking COLD. We don't have local teams unless you live in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver (all semi-pro teams, including Toronto FC of the MLS). I play in the top league in the city I'm from so the only real matches we have to go to are when Canada play a World Cup qualifier once every four years in the city three hours north of me or when a team like Everton does a pre-season tour once a decade.

[Réiteoir]

Out of the 15,000 irishmen and women who were present in the stade de farce (lol)

Btw i saw a bray shirt in the crowd, no joke!

There was a photo of a guy in a Bray jersey on Page 3 of the Indo on Thursday morning.

Anyhow - not sure why we are debating this whole subject of trying to promote the LoI - what hope do we have when the Glorious Chief Executive of the Association equates a game between the current National Champions and his local club to the lowest of the low.

We don't stand a flipping chance

[gustavo]

Anyhow - not sure why we are debating this whole subject of trying to promote the LoI - what hope do we have when the Glorious Chief Executive of the Association equates a game between the current National Champions and his local club to the lowest of the low.

We don't stand a flipping chance

Just looked up those comments,that's unbelievable coming from him

[CuanaD]

There was a photo of a guy in a Bray jersey on Page 3 of the Indo on Thursday morning.

Anyhow - not sure why we are debating this whole subject of trying to promote the LoI - what hope do we have when the Glorious Chief Executive of the Association equates a game between the current National Champions and his local club to the lowest of the low.

We don't stand a flipping chance
Got a link for that?

[gustavo]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1120/1224259190510.html




“Every time I go to a Fifa conference I hear all about fair play and integrity,” said Delaney. “Well, this wasn’t Bohemians against Waterford in the cup (speaking later, on radio, he also used the example of Sligo Rovers and Sporting Fingal). The whole world was watching last night and if Fifa really care about fair play and integrity they have a chance to show it. It’s up to the people who run the game to step forward because well done is better than well said.”

[Mr A]

I think his point is that this was not merely a match of local interest, but one that has garnered attention around the world. the whole demanding a replay thing is a joke though.

[Magicme]

Fair play to him for mentioning the LOI.

[Riddickcule]

I feel some good will come out of this, even if we don't get our replay