I've lost faith in Ireland.

[peadar1987]

There are two other Irish people in my course over here in college.

One of them is a Manchester United supporter. He got into an argument with my flat mate (who is actually from Manchester, and supports City) about how United were the better club, because they were somehow Irish. Needless to say, she was of a contrary opinion, so he ended the argument by saying she wouldn't understand, as she probably was a protestant!

This fella is from Killarney, so I asked him why he followed an English club instead of Tralee Dynamos. His answer? "F%^$ off, I'm not from Tralee". Not a hint of irony in his voice.

The other lad is from Limerick. His dad was chairman of the football club. He supports Manchester United as well.

What the hell is wrong with us as a country?!

[CF1989]

the thing i dont understand is, if your a gaelic supporter, you support your team, the whole county does (i hate gaelic btw), but if your a football fan, they support an english team and dont care about their local LOI side

[jebus]

The Irish are a horrible group of people.

Cowardly, money-grabbing, would sell their own grandmother for a few more pints, back stabbing atrocious group of individuals. Not as funny as they think they are, and in general have to rely on them and others being drunk for their personalities to come out. Usually that personality is rubbish as well. In fact I'd credit this lack of personality and national character as to why the Irish in general will jump on whatever bandwagon is rolling along and pretend that that's what makes them Irish and lovable.

You see it with the support of British football
You see it in Munster rugby
You see it in nonsense like Arthur's Day
You see it every day walking the street
You see it on election days

Truly the Irish are Europe's shame

That's what's wrong with the Irish. Also Churchill was right, the Irish can't govern themselves

[PartySaint]

You think thats bad, I heard a group of lads in Ireland jerseys singing a United song on the way to Croker the other night, I decided on the spot that this would be the last Ireland game i ever to go

[bennocelt]

Jesus Jebus steady on there:p

I agree with some of your post.......I dont think we are the worst............but we are def not the cleverest ticket in town.....................

[OneRedArmy]

Jesus Jebus steady on there:p

I agree with some of your post.......I dont think we are the worst............but we are def not the cleverest ticket in town.....................I agree with this.

We're like a junkie or a manic depressive coming down off a high.

Everything was fupping brilliant for 10 years, we were gold-plated, indestructable masters of our universe. The world bowed to our unique combination of financial genius, easygoing, life-and-soul-of-the-party, burn-the-candle-at-both-ends party culture and unrivalled sense of humour. We were taking over the world with a pint in one hand and a bookies docket in the other.

Now we're like a bear with a hangover. With an extra dose of the shakes and "the fear" that strikes you after a particularly bad bender. We're full of self-loathing and "never again" regrets.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, but the catharsis is good.

[dcfcsteve]

Where to begin on what's wrong with the Irish.....! :eek:

The fact that we're all having this conversation in the English language, and most of us would be incapable of doing it in our native tongue 88yrs after most of the country became 'independent', says it all really.

The Irish are only Irish when it suits them. And usually that amounts to using their nationality solely to show that they're not English.

[John83]

The fact that we're all having this conversation in the English language, and most of us would be incapable of doing it in our native tongue 88yrs after most of the country became 'independent', says it all really.
I grew up speaking this language. It's mine now as much as it's an American's or a New Zealander's. The fact that my mother's grandfather spoke only broken English doesn't make Irish my tongue any more than her maiden name being Power makes me French.


The Irish are only Irish when it suits them. And usually that amounts to using their nationality solely to show that they're not English.
We are Irish. Most of us are just uncomfortable with the idea that that's actually pretty similar to English in the grand scheme of things.

[Straightstory]

Where to begin on what's wrong with the Irish.....! :eek:

The fact that we're all having this conversation in the English language, and most of us would be incapable of doing it in our native tongue 88yrs after most of the country became 'independent', says it all really.

The Irish are only Irish when it suits them. And usually that amounts to using their nationality solely to show that they're not English.

There's a hell of a lot more to being Irish than speaking a language that, for all intents and purposes, died out a hundred years ago. In fact, the state/official obsession with this dead language to the detriment of other aspects of Irish culture is one of the great frustrations and irritations of Irish life. One thing the Irish language certainly is NOT is 'our native tongue'. Our native tongue - by definition the language we all grow up speaking naturally - is, whether you like it or not (and you seemingly don't), English.

[twoenz]

It's very hard to seperate Irishness and Englishness, especially because Dublin was an English (British) city, with Georgian architecture, and even our literature has a strongly Englishness about it (Dubliners for example) so if Dubliners want to be English, and Irish people aspire to living in Dublin, then they're just buying into a diluted Englishness...

I had a point at the start of this...

[Titan]

The Irish are a horrible group of people.

Cowardly, money-grabbing, would sell their own grandmother for a few more pints, back stabbing atrocious group of individuals. Not as funny as they think they are, and in general have to rely on them and others being drunk for their personalities to come out. Usually that personality is rubbish as well. In fact I'd credit this lack of personality and national character as to why the Irish in general will jump on whatever bandwagon is rolling along and pretend that that's what makes them Irish and lovable.

You see it with the support of British football
You see it in Munster rugby
You see it in nonsense like Arthur's Day
You see it every day walking the street
You see it on election days

Truly the Irish are Europe's shame

That's what's wrong with the Irish. Also Churchill was right, the Irish can't govern themselves

Oh dear I agree with most if not all of this. Now I'm really worried!

[Scrufil]

Ha! Ha! If it takes a few lads singing Utd songs or you not being comfortable with Gaeilge to make you lose faith in Ireland then this is a reflection on your own character not the failings of others. There is and never will be any definition of the label 'Irishness'. All anyone can do is make an effort to shine their own corner and hope it glints brighter than all the muck around them.

[dynamo kerry]

There are two other Irish people in my course over here in college.

One of them is a Manchester United supporter. He got into an argument with my flat mate (who is actually from Manchester, and supports City) about how United were the better club, because they were somehow Irish. Needless to say, she was of a contrary opinion, so he ended the argument by saying she wouldn't understand, as she probably was a protestant!

This fella is from Killarney, so I asked him why he followed an English club instead of Tralee Dynamos. His answer? "F%^$ off, I'm not from Tralee". Not a hint of irony in his voice.

The other lad is from Limerick. His dad was chairman of the football club. He supports Manchester United as well.

What the hell is wrong with us as a country?!

i hope this lads tongue was in his cheek somewhere..

2 issues- he was arguing with a lady and sounds like he was trying to be the tough fella

also - being from tralee myself I'm not surprised he wasn't interested. Remind him politely about killarney celtic. a lot of tralee guys I know who are big football fans didn't even know TD were in the a champs.

I wouldn't worry about it. just enjoy the feeling of superiority of knowing these guys are missing out.

[dynamo kerry]

It's very hard to seperate Irishness and Englishness, especially because Dublin was an English (British) city, with Georgian architecture, and even our literature has a strongly Englishness about it (Dubliners for example) so if Dubliners want to be English, and Irish people aspire to living in Dublin, then they're just buying into a diluted Englishness...

I had a point at the start of this...

are you suggesting dublin is really a part of england and if you live there you're not irish?

I think you need to try a little harder there..

I'm from kerry, lived in dublin for many years, I suggest you're being a bit one-sided on your views.

dubin may have been build and designed by landed gentry but it since union it has really been inhabited by the locals. what ever may have gone befoe has been utterly replaced by a strong irish city. lack of familiarity may influence your views, in which case I invite you enjoy the southern capital a bit more

however I recognise your post wasn't meant to be politically challenging and I respect that. I merely disagree. completely.

[eamo1]

I posted something similar on the old eircomleague.net site back in the day about how i had lost faith in Irish people.The Irish supporting British teams was just the tip of the ice-berg.Yet for some reason i cling on to a hope that it will all come good one day.
-That'll there'll be more in Terryland then down the local watching "their team".
-that we wont be afraid to hang a tri-colour out the window on match days(the "going green" thing last Saturday was a disaster in Galway City).
-that we wont be afraid to use our Cupla Focail in everyday life
-that we will be an efficently run country where people are held accountable.
-that if somebody we know comes to visit Ireland we will take them on a drive to see the countryside we are blessed with instead of spending a day in a pub because its supposedly Irish.
Ive been waiting 10+ years now for it to turn around but it keeps getting worse.

How did the "going green on November 14" thing go in your area??

[Scrufil]

I don't know if this might be regarded as an Irish thing or not but the current trend to pronounce the HSE as the Átch S E on RTE is enough to make me want to throw the TV or radio out the window. For all my life in Ireland they used the Hat or Hatch sound for this letter but now are seeking to Anglisize this. This to me is a current threat that should be shot down. The Irish way of speaking English is a recognised system and should not be altered too much in my opinion.

Although this annoys me I still keep faith in Ireland.

[sixesandsevens]

This might not be too popular an opinion in here, but I'll go for it anyway. Englishness seems to be a disease of the Irish that has infected pretty much every Irish person in the country. From going to League of Ireland matches for years I've always been amused at the Ultra's supporters at clubs who seem to chant in an English accent all the time. The individual club chants, or the 'Who ahh ya's?' are always sung by a group of people who could be Orient or Hammer fans if you didn't know what was being sung. Dublin fans being the worst offenders. Would this be because that the majority of club chants/songs are taken from our British neighbours?

[L37Ultra]

Ya totally agree. Don't get me wrong I've no problem with anyone following foregin teams but the culture that exists is crazy and would take years to change. A fellow with a Liverpool jersey asked me before the Ireland game on Saturday who I supported and of course I said Limerick. He goes no really so to **** him off I said Valencia were my other team because I have seen them play in Spain a couple of times. His reply was, 'ha that's weird man, why do you support a Spainish team'. I just looked at him at laughed.

[BohDiddley]

What the hell is wrong with us as a country?!
Globalisation.

[marinobohs]

Globalisation.

Yea, element of that BD but suspect it is much easier and cheaper to sit in the pub watching SKY than to travel to a LOI game.

What always p**ses me off is the "WE" crap when talking about a club they will never visit in a town/city they could not point out on a map :confused:

[Macy]

It's attitudes like this that make people not support the league.

[marinobohs]

It's attitudes like this that make people not support the league.

....... and it was cold out ........and it looked like rain. :rolleyes:

[Hairy Bowsie]

It's attitudes like this that make people not support the league.

No it's not, but it is another nice handy excuse for them to use.

[twoenz]

are you suggesting dublin is really a part of england and if you live there you're not irish?

I think you need to try a little harder there..

I'm from kerry, lived in dublin for many years, I suggest you're being a bit one-sided on your views.

dubin may have been build and designed by landed gentry but it since union it has really been inhabited by the locals. what ever may have gone befoe has been utterly replaced by a strong irish city. lack of familiarity may influence your views, in which case I invite you enjoy the southern capital a bit more

however I recognise your post wasn't meant to be politically challenging and I respect that. I merely disagree. completely.


I didn't get what I wanted out really in my first post. Although Dublin has a strong identity and tradition now, it's been made with fibres that are undeniably English in their roots. And as Dublin has been at the fore of setting what's "Irish" in life, of course there's going to be some pull.

But, what makes someone Irish nowadays? What's peddled as Irish around the globe doesn't tally to what is at the essence of a 21st Century Irish person.

[John2626]

I'm glad this topic has come up. I have been thinking about this for a few years now. Im a Dublin guy with 28 years of living in this country. 8 of which is a regular at Tolka Park.

My faith in Ireland and the Irish people are at an all time low. I have seen the EL grow and remember saying to myself in August 2004 at the Riazor in Deportivo that a "EL team will have a team in the champions league within 5 years".

Well...... 5 years on and how wrong was I!!!! This has to be one of the most pathetic leagues in Europe. We have teams going under every other day, 1970's grounds and facilities. Attendances at very low levels!!

Yet, I still have friends spending €300 every month going to England to support their beloved teams!!!

I honestly think we are a joke of a country and to a extent, people. Dublin is one of the worst cities to live in, and I travel Europe for a living so maybe I see the comparisons.

Counting down to days to my move to Germany.
€3 a pint
Beautiful women
€11 into a BL game
Good transport system
No junkies on every street corner
No scumbags stabbing people for nothing
No GAA
No Rugby
No Dublin D4 heads telling me how much they love "THEIR" team Man U.

Anyway, thats my rant!!!!

[O'Shea's Boot]

I think in this day and age a lot of "Identities" are being diluted. Being Irish or UK isnt as pure as it used to be. Soon enough half the population of UK and Ireland with be decendants of immigrants who do not align to Irish/UK etc so wouldnt get too hung up on it

[DaveyCakes]

Well...... 5 years on and how wrong was I!!!! This has to be one of the most pathetic leagues in Europe. We have teams going under every other day, 1970's grounds and facilities. Attendances at very low levels!!



Unlike the leagues in other similarly-sized countries, which are positively booming??

[twoenz]

I'm glad this topic has come up. I have been thinking about this for a few years now. Im a Dublin guy with 28 years of living in this country. 8 of which is a regular at Tolka Park.

My faith in Ireland and the Irish people are at an all time low. I have seen the EL grow and remember saying to myself in August 2004 at the Riazor in Deportivo that a "EL team will have a team in the champions league within 5 years".

Well...... 5 years on and how wrong was I!!!! This has to be one of the most pathetic leagues in Europe. We have teams going under every other day, 1970's grounds and facilities. Attendances at very low levels!!

Yet, I still have friends spending €300 every month going to England to support their beloved teams!!!

I honestly think we are a joke of a country and to a extent, people. Dublin is one of the worst cities to live in, and I travel Europe for a living so maybe I see the comparisons.

Counting down to days to my move to Germany.
€3 a pint
Beautiful women
€11 into a BL game
Good transport system
No junkies on every street corner
No scumbags stabbing people for nothing
No GAA
No Rugby
No Dublin D4 heads telling me how much they love "THEIR" team Man U.

Anyway, thats my rant!!!!

Where are you going in Germany?

[cavan_fan]

Jesus, this is a depressing thread. I know I live in England but the complaints seem to be:

Irish people dont support the Eircom League. They also dont support local basketball teams but that doesnt mean they are bad people does it.

Irish people do support English club sides. This is odd for a European country (though not world wide), the Premiership is more popular in India that the Indian league. I think its the combination of these two factors that annoy people but most people think that there is no worthwhile football played in Ireland and thats hard/impossible to change.

A heavy underlying element of anti Englishness. Now I celebrate England's failures as much as the next man but you have to be realistic. Our relationship to Britain is like Canada's to America. There is a huge cultural exchange and we share many interests. It doesnt make people less Irish if they watch EastEnders. Are we really looking for some DeValera like state of cultural isolation.

Fiinally, theres a bit of we have crap politicians. This is a factor of size. I always remember a comment about the Northern Irish peace process when someone said that in any other country these guys would be runnign local councils at best but were being asked to resolve an international conflict. Putting aside corruption how many world class Finance ministers would you expect Ireland to create. It's for this reason the Euro is probably a good idea!

Oh also some people dont like Rugby whcih I guess is an anti Dublin/anti middle classes thing. I cant really comment except to say I quite like Rugby, Ireland are really quite good at the moment as are our 'clubs' and it would do Irish football clubs no harm to learn some lessons.

[bennocelt]

Counting down to days to my move to Germany.
€3 a pint
Beautiful women
€11 into a BL game
Good transport system
No junkies on every street corner
No scumbags stabbing people for nothing
No GAA
No Rugby
No Dublin D4 heads telling me how much they love "THEIR" team Man U.

Anyway, thats my rant!!!!

Like it
I'm thinking of maybe Canada?

One thing that I hate is the idea of "Irishness" - that we like to sell to the world - the blarney, the rebel, the fighting irishman, the pub culture, the craic -------------------------where is all this, i certainly dont see much of it around here. All I see is people whinging everyday.

[Murfinator]

the thing i dont understand is, if your a gaelic supporter, you support your team, the whole county does (i hate gaelic btw), but if your a football fan, they support an english team and dont care about their local LOI side

The LOI is an embarrassment, simple as. They're run poorly, clubs fold every season, the best players can't wait to jump ship and run to some mediocre championship team, the style of play is defensive, boring and horrible to watch. There's simply no pride in supporting a LOI club and its unfair to expect people to support them out of compulsion because of where they live.

I do agree though that people who support Man United, Liverpool or Celtic because they feel they have some sort of affinity with this country are idiots. But equally so the folk who can't fathom why somebody would rather watch Barcelona play than Bray Wanderers. It should be crystal clear why the LOI is as undersupported as it is.

[crc]

Unlike the leagues in other similarly-sized countries, which are positively booming??
Ireland is the largest country in Europe never to have had a team in the Champions League.
Check out this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League#Format) (on the right).
Smaller and similarly sized countries who HAVE had teams include: Cyprus, Norway, Slovenia, Croatia, Scotland, Slovakia, Denmark, Switzerland, Finland.

[pineapple stu]

The LOI is an embarrassment, simple as. They're run poorly, clubs fold every season, the best players can't wait to jump ship and run to some mediocre championship team, the style of play is defensive, boring and horrible to watch. There's simply no pride in supporting a LOI club and its unfair to expect people to support them out of compulsion because of where they live.

I do agree though that people who support Man United, Liverpool or Celtic because they feel they have some sort of affinity with this country are idiots. But equally so the folk who can't fathom why somebody would rather watch Barcelona play than Bray Wanderers. It should be crystal clear why the LOI is as undersupported as it is.

Wow. One of the most ignorant posts on the forum.

Clubs fold every season? Not true.

The Championship is better than the LoI; you think it's bad that some players want to play at a higher level?

The style is defensive, boring and horrible? What a ridiculous sweeping generalisation. I haven't seen much of that this season, and there's plenty of videos linked in the UCD forum to back that up.

You think people who support Man U or Liverpool are idiots, but it's OK to support Barca?

Please, please engage your brain before posting, otherwise you're liable to be dismissed as a common troll.


Ireland is the largest country in Europe never to have had a team in the Champions League.
Iceland, Azerbaijan, Serbia and Kazakhstan are bigger than Ireland. Latvia and Lithuania are bigger than the Republic of Ireland. Kazakhstan, Moldova, Azerbaijan and Georgia are more populous. But an interesting graph all the same.

[gilberto_eire]

Funnily enough it's not just football this happens in....

When Munster were playing a few weeks back my Grandmother was watching at cheering them on, i pointed out that we have Connacht at this level, to which she said she has no interest and she follows Munster :rolleyes:

Think i'll pack in the footballers for Kerry, the hurlers for KK, the national squad for Spain, Connacht for Munster, New Zealand for the national team and Chelsea for GUFC

...all we can hope for is Liverpool and United to go the same way as Leeds, i'd love to see a few more Arabs come in and buy clubs in England and push the ''Irish'' clubs down the table and into obscurity

[Murfinator]

Wow. One of the most ignorant posts on the forum.

Clubs fold every season? Not true.

The Championship is better than the LoI; you think it's bad that some players want to play at a higher level?

The style is defensive, boring and horrible? What a ridiculous sweeping generalisation. I haven't seen much of that this season, and there's plenty of videos linked in the UCD forum to back that up.

You think people who support Man U or Liverpool are idiots, but it's OK to support Barca?

Please, please engage your brain before posting, otherwise you're liable to be dismissed as a common troll.


Calling someone ignorant then dragging their points out of context to sensationalise the story like a common rag doesn't exactly reflect well on you. :rolleyes:

Clubs don't literally fold every season, but for the last few seasons financial troubles has caused some clubs to fold and some to be on the brink of it with a quite a few getting forced relegation at this stage.

Yes the championship is better than the LOI, but from a fans point of view the best players being happy to jump ship to a second tier in another country isn't exactly an appealing trend or one that would entice you to support them.

Rather than tell me about whatever amazing videos UCD has, why not show me the goals per game ratio in the LOI compared to other major leagues. I'd guarantee it's lower than most.

I said it's silly to support a foreign club out of a false sense of association with Ireland, not if you simply enjoy their style of play.

Also "engage your brain" is a direct flame at me, I'm trying to raise topical points on the topic at hand and I don't need to insult people to do it. Go me! :)

[pineapple stu]

Clubs don't literally fold every season, but for the last few seasons financial troubles has caused some clubs to fold and some to be on the brink of it with a quite a few getting forced relegation at this stage.
And this happens nowhere else in the world, yeah? Someone posted recently that 80-odd clubs in England have been in administration this decade. They don't count, no?


Yes the championship is better than the LOI, but from a fans point of view the best players being happy to jump ship to a second tier in another country isn't exactly an appealing trend or one that would entice you to support them.
Nonsense. I for one am delighted to see our players move to a higher level. I'm sure others are too.

If your post is ignorant, I've no problems calling you up on it. If you can't see why people would support Bray ahead of Barca, you've no business posting in this forum, to be honest.

[BohDiddley]

If you can't see why people would support Bray ahead of Barca, you've no business posting in this forum, to be honest.
Surely that's the topic of the conversation PS? You might disagree with him (and I certainly do), but he's entitled to his opinion without being condemned as a troll for it.

[Murfinator]

And this happens nowhere else in the world, yeah? Someone posted recently that 80-odd clubs in England have been in administration this decade. They don't count, no?


Again you're missing the point, how many of those clubs that fell into administration are well supported here? You might have a point if Leeds or League 2 sides were heavily supported here at the expense of LOI clubs, but reality check. They ain't so no they don't count within the context of my point, it's completely irrelevant.

[sligofan4ever]

People follow English teams and not Irish clubs because they see it as a more attractive league and more attractive football. If you ask certain people if they're going to e.g the Rovers game on Saturday, they'll say no, if you ask why they'll most likely reply with 'because its sh!te'. I love watching Sligo Rovers, over the last 2 seasons we've been lucky to see some very attractive style of football, id been following Rovers beforehand, the atmosphere of being at a game rather than sitting on your hole at home watching a game between 2 teams who you'll probably never go to see at a game either is what does it for me! I also wouldn't be surprised there are die hard football fans in this country who live within a stone throw of their local LoI ground, but would sooner go see a team in England, i'd say people here have met these kind of people.

[Murfinator]

And I can understand why somebody would support their local club over all others. I can also understand why someone would rather watch the game played at its finest and support a side like Barca. It's personal preference and I don't think the guy who chooses Bray or Barca should be condemned for their decision, what I don't like is this negative portrayal of people who would choose to support Barca as "bad fans" or people who don't have a clue about the game or whatever. I'd respect your opinion a lot more, pineapple if you were more open to other peoples views and didn't just shrug your shoulders because other people hold different values in the game than you.

[Acornvilla]

People follow English teams and not Irish clubs because they see it as a more attractive league and more attractive football. If you ask certain people if they're going to e.g the Rovers game on Saturday, they'll say no, if you ask why they'll most likely reply with 'because its sh!te'. I love watching Sligo Rovers, over the last 2 seasons we've been lucky to see some very attractive style of football, id been following Rovers beforehand, the atmosphere of being at a game rather than sitting on your hole at home watching a game between 2 teams who you'll probably never go to see at a game either is what does it for me! I also wouldn't be surprised there are die hard football fans in this country who live within a stone throw of their local LoI ground, but would sooner go see a team in England, i'd say people here have met these kind of people.

that would be 99% of people i know from limerick, longford and athlone
:(

[thischarmingman]

I do agree though that people who support Man United, Liverpool or Celtic because they feel they have some sort of affinity with this country are idiots.


I can also understand why someone would rather watch the game played at its finest and support a side like Barca. It's personal preference and I don't think the guy who chooses Bray or Barca should be condemned for their decision, what I don't like is this negative portrayal of people who would choose to support Barca as "bad fans" or people who don't have a clue about the game or whatever.

Seriously...what?

[John83]

Seriously...what?
You and Pineapple Stu both expressed incredulity at this part of this post. I don't understand.

On one had he says that supporting, e.g. Liverpool because they're somehow Irish is silly. On the other, he says that supporting, e.g. Barca because they play nice football is understandable. There's nothing shocking or contradictory in what he's posted.

[thischarmingman]

You and Pineapple Stu both expressed incredulity at this part of this post. I don't understand.

On one had he says that supporting, e.g. Liverpool because they're somehow Irish is silly. On the other, he says that supporting, e.g. Barca because they play nice football is understandable. There's nothing shocking or contradictory in what he's posted.

It's this fetishism of Barcelona. It's just get another cop-out. Yes, they're a great team with a great tradition, but why is supporting Barcelona considered a more noble thing than supporting Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal? Why do people who say they support Barcelona get an easy ride, but those who claim to support Liverpool don't? You can admire them by all means, but saying you are a supporter of Barcelona rather than a supporter of Bray because of the way they play is so fundamentally missing the point of being a football fan it's ridiculous.

Also, I don't see Barcelona winning the Spanish League or the European Cup each season; if you are one of these cultured 'followers' of football does this mean that you change allegience year on year depending on who's playing the best football? Or match on match? And it obviously follows that you support Brazil or Argentina at the World Cup even if Ireland are there?

It's seen as 'cool' to support Barcelona so its just yet another easy excuse for people not to support Irish teams. If you seriously think watching Barcelona on TV because they happen to play an attractive style of football is football support you are very much deluded.

Not to mention the fact that plenty of Irish people support EPL clubs and don't purport to choosing them because of any Irish affinity, real or imagined. They might fall back on it now and again if pushed, but many, many more Irish people support foreign teams because it's far easier to sit at the bar watching West Ham United players running in slow motion to Carmina Burana than it is to go to their local grounds, rather than because of any Irish affinity.

[dcfcsteve]

No-one ever sees the irony in, on the one hand, bemoaning that people support English football over the Irish game - and then on the other hand, arguing in favour of people 'supporting'/using the English language over the Irish version.

After all, the arguements often trotted out for not speaking the Irish language, and the sentiments behind them, are in many ways similar or identical to those for not supporting Irish football.


I grew up speaking this language. It's mine now as much as it's an American's or a New Zealander's. The fact that my mother's grandfather spoke only broken English doesn't make Irish my tongue any more than her maiden name being Power makes me French.

"I grew-up supporting Man United. It's my team now as much as it is someone from Singapore or Surrey's. The fact that my grandfather supported only Drumcondra doesn't make the League of Ireland my league any more than him driving a Toyota makes me Japanese".

So you're from a long line of non-Irish speakers then. Well what about the tens of thousands of people in Ireland who are second, third, or even fourth generation supporters of English football teams ? By your logic - the English league is their football league, not the LOI. So why is it fairgame for them to ignore the Irish language, but they can be belittled and bemoaned for not opting for thr Irish option in something as trivial as football ? And anyway, don't you get it - Celtic and Manchester United ARE Irish....


There's a hell of a lot more to being Irish than speaking a language that, for all intents and purposes, died out a hundred years ago. In fact, the state/official obsession with this dead language to the detriment of other aspects of Irish culture is one of the great frustrations and irritations of Irish life. One thing the Irish language certainly is NOT is 'our native tongue'. Our native tongue - by definition the language we all grow up speaking naturally - is, whether you like it or not (and you seemingly don't), English.

So the Irish language "for all intents and purposes, died out a hundred years ago" ? Well one could easily argue that Irish domestic footall 'for all intents and purposes, died out three to four decades ago'. The league has been seriously on the skids since the early 1980's, and was on a downward trajectory for a period prior to that. So what's with the obsession of you and people on hre ewith this dead league ? Surely that's to the detriment of other aspects of Irish sporting life and culture, and one of the great frustrations and irritations of Irish life ?

And one thing the League of Ireland certainly is NOT is our domestic league. Our domestic league - by definition the league we all grow up supporting - is, whether you like it or not (and seemingly you won't) the English and/or Scottish leagues.

Are we getting the irony of being an LOI'gor whilst at the same time turning your nose up at the Irish language ? It's the same principle - resorting for something non-indigenous because the home-grown version is perceived as largely dead, irrelevant, boring, backward, unfashionable, out-dated, and of little value etc. Both the LOI and the Irish language are viewed as irrelevant fringe activities by most of Irish society - ironically at the same time by people on either side of the fringe activities. The same mentality that sneers at one is usually found behind the sneers towards the other.

:ball:

[thischarmingman]

You think thats bad, I heard a group of lads in Ireland jerseys singing a United song on the way to Croker the other night

In Derry I remember seeing a fight break out between to rival gangs of Liverpool and Manchester United 'fans.' In. Derry.


I agree with this.

We're like a junkie or a manic depressive coming down off a high.


That reminds me of Terry Eagleton's description of Ireland during the boom as being akin to "a toilet attendant who has just won the lottery."


The fact that we're all having this conversation in the English language, and most of us would be incapable of doing it in our native tongue 88yrs after most of the country became 'independent', says it all really.


I agreed with John:

I grew up speaking this language. It's mine now as much as it's an American's or a New Zealander's.

As a nation, we've done pretty well with it, don't you think? Joyce, Beckett, Yeats, Heaney, Banville, Doyle, Stoker, Swift, Moore, Synge, Lewis, Wilde, Maturin...among others- surely we can claim it as 'our' language as much as anyone else's?

[dcfcsteve]

As a nation, we've done pretty well with it, don't you think? Joyce, Beckett, Yeats, Heaney, Banville, Doyle, Stoker, Swift, Moore, Synge, Lewis, Wilde, Maturin...among others- surely we can claim it as 'our' language as much as anyone else's?

As a nation we've done pretty well with the English League, don't you think ? Brady, Stapleton, O'Leary, Quinn, O'Shea, Keane, Givens, ... among others- surely we can claim the English League as "our" league as much as anyone else's....?

[Paddyfield]

I witnessed a conversation between an Irish woman and a Russian barman in a pub in Salthill, just 3 weeks ago.

The Russian guy said when he came to Ireland, he would continue to play and support football. Injury (and age?) curtailed his playing days but he decided to jump on the bandwagon and support the club that is the best supported in Ireland. No, not Shamrock Rovers, Derry City or Cork City. Not even Galway United, even though he lives within a few KMs of the home stadium.

He supports Man Utd. He is fanatical about them. He didn't support them before he came to Ireland.

I don't know why but I was embarrassed for him and for myself as a fan of an Irish football club.

[peadar1987]

The LOI is an embarrassment, simple as. They're run poorly, clubs fold every season, the best players can't wait to jump ship and run to some mediocre championship team, the style of play is defensive, boring and horrible to watch. There's simply no pride in supporting a LOI club and its unfair to expect people to support them out of compulsion because of where they live.

Football isn't about something that is nice to watch. If you want to look at something spectacular and impressive, look up videos of parkour on youtube. Football is a tribal sport. I get infinite amounts more pleasure watching Bray or Stoke score the scrappiest goal in the world than I do watchin Lionel Messi beat 3 Albacete players before firing one into the top corner from 30 yards. It's a natural thing to want something you can legitimately associate yourself with to flourish, and it's hardwired into our brains by evolution from the days we were competing with Neanderthals for wooly mammoths to eat. Not many people who have arbitrarily adopted an English club, or a continental club, simply because they play "nice football" will ever experience the highs and lows I've felt in the Carlisle or the Britannia over the years. That's why people support, and I mean properly support, football teams, not just because they want to look at something pretty and intricate on the TV for an hour and a half every Saturday afternoon.

And despite what happened tonight, I still have immense pride in my club and my town. And we will be back.

[John83]

Two interesting replies, and I wish I had the time to debate these, but the building's about to be locked here, so I'll be very brief.


... supporting Barcelona considered a more noble thing than supporting Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal? ...
In my opinion, football supporters, those of us who go to watch our local (and national) team play, who support them independent of merit or success, don't have a monopoly on football. The peak of the game, technically, can be aesthetically amazing at times. I can appreciate the game from this perspective too. From this point of view, I can admire the ethos in Barcelona which will see a back pass to the keeper booed, or a successful manager sacked because his style of play wasn't acceptable. I can admire Ferguson's Man Utd teams for an athletic attacking style, Wenger's Arsenal for an emphasis on short passing, technical play, a great defence like Italy's was a few years ago (it's still very good, but Nesta, Cannavarro and Maldini at their peaks made for a hell of a back line a few years ago). I'm okay with someone being a fan of the game in this sense.

People who support an English team though are the worst of both worlds. They ape the supporters of local clubs, but they're missing the point. I don't care if your grandad and your dad supported England for some ill-conceived reason, you're Irish and you support Ireland.


No-one ever sees the irony in, on the one hand, bemoaning that people support English football over the Irish game - and then on the other hand, arguing in favour of people 'supporting'/using the English language over the Irish version.
I think the comparison is facile. I can stop going to UCD games, stop going to Ireland games, stop buying jerseys, watching games on TV, playing the sport (badly) - never think twice about it. Maybe you think you're too big a Derry fan to do that. But you're thinking it in English.