View Full Version : The Leagues' financial problems fixed!
Pay the players less. Not more. A lower number. A number that is less high than before
A lower one. One that is lower than before. A number that is less big and is therefore smaller
If you pay the players less, there will be more money in the club
and you will not go bust as quickly. In fact if you spend less it will mean that you will have more
Having more is good - having less is less good. And yes it may mean that the players have less and you may need to hire a lesser quality of player but you won't, er, go out of business
Paying out less has for many years been a feature of successful businesses. In fact, many business design their management operations such that they try and get more money in and try and pay less money out. THis called "management"
Sorry to do this, but this level of inter cert commerce is clearly what some of these jokers need
Magicme
15/11/2009, 4:41 PM
ummm somehow the above seems quite familiar to me but I just cant think were I would have seen such a model employed before.
OneRedArmy
15/11/2009, 4:41 PM
You do realise that whatever "less" is, the incentive is always there to spend "less"+1 and chase success and there it begins again...
Simple economics.
peadar1987
15/11/2009, 4:43 PM
I'm not sure I follow you. Surely the root of all the problems is the 10 team league and Sporting Fingal
thischarmingman
15/11/2009, 5:30 PM
I'm not sure I follow you. Surely the root of all the problems is the 10 team league and Sporting Fingal
I thought it was Ollie Byrne? Or summer football? Or summer at Ollie Byrne's? :confused:
Ciaran W
15/11/2009, 5:53 PM
In fairness you do need the attendances as well,unless your sporting fingal of course
Longfordian
15/11/2009, 6:14 PM
We need to have some sort of system whereby teams financial situations are monitored during the year and action can be taken to stop them getting into trouble. It might be an idea to have teams submit their budgets in advance for approval. It can't fail to work.
We need to have some sort of system whereby teams financial situations are monitored during the year and action can be taken to stop them getting into trouble. It might be an idea to have teams submit their budgets in advance for approval. It can't fail to work.
Agree. There needs to be this system in place.
But the monitoring of this system is only effective if the people managing the clubs spending the money being monitored have a clue.
If they don't have a clue and persist with this "group stages of the champions league" nonsense, then we will have more of this.
Anything up to 90% of players are out of contract every year. Case closed
The end.
galwayjames
15/11/2009, 7:18 PM
How often during a season do the FAI see the club's financial accounts?
PartySaint
15/11/2009, 7:20 PM
I dont get it, would it not be easier to spend more and try get into the Champions League, that way you would be swimming and money and all your problems would go away
thischarmingman
15/11/2009, 7:23 PM
We need to have some sort of system whereby teams financial situations are monitored during the year and action can be taken to stop them getting into trouble. It might be an idea to have teams submit their budgets in advance for approval. It can't fail to work.
Or, have all the pre-season looked over by the FAI, and the rubber stamped by an independent, third-party accountants= no fudging.
Longfordian
15/11/2009, 7:56 PM
Or, have all the pre-season looked over by the FAI, and the rubber stamped by an independent, third-party accountants= no fudging.
Guaranteed to be a fudge free zone. A licencing system if you will. No licence, no team.
John83
15/11/2009, 8:24 PM
Pay the players less. Not more. A lower number. A number that is less high than before
Personally, I subscribe to Bald Student's "Spend less money than you earn" school of economics.
thischarmingman
15/11/2009, 8:26 PM
Personally, I subscribe to Bald Student's "Spend less money than you earn" school of economics.
He's a maverick alright, that one!
Angus
15/11/2009, 10:02 PM
I dont get it, would it not be easier to spend more and try get into the Champions League, that way you would be swimming and money and all your problems would go away
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success - bet the ranch on getting to the champs league group stages
The upside ? Funding for a couple of years. The downside ? Extinction.
Hmmm...
PartySaint
15/11/2009, 10:19 PM
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success - bet the ranch on getting to the champs league group stages
The upside ? Funding for a couple of years. The downside ? Extinction.
Hmmm...
Oh dear
Ezeikial
15/11/2009, 10:43 PM
Personally, I subscribe to Bald Student's "Spend less money than you earn" school of economics.
No no no - that would never work!
Try "Earn more money then you spend" - have different people responsible for the "earning" side and the "spending" side - far more fun!
Scrufil
15/11/2009, 11:47 PM
Can we not just get a top movie director to make a good 'fictional' film about the 'poor' league that has more drama in 2 days than Fair City has ever produced in 10 years? If it was a good tear jerker it might attract in interest from all over the world never mind in our own towns and cities. We should play up the fact that as a 'poor' league we sometimes punch above our weight. Mind you I'd demand Pat Shortt plays the role of Delaney!!;)
thischarmingman
16/11/2009, 12:52 AM
Can we not just get a top movie director to make a good 'fictional' film about the 'poor' league that has more drama in 2 days than Fair City has ever produced in 10 years?
The Pat McDaid Affair.
Scene 1:
A grimly foreboding shoreline, wreathed in darkness. Two shrouded figures are hunched over a chessboard, perched on the cold, hard rocks beside the water.
Pat McDaid: Mother always said life was like a box of chocolates, you never know which you're going to get.
John Delaney: (pulling a packet of Custard Creams from under the table in frustration) Well, I think we always know what we're going to have from you Pat; M&S Finest Belgian Chocolates at the Brandywell every week, but when you come down here to Dublin all you can muster up is a packer of half-eaten Custard Creams.
Pat McDaid: (with a knowing smile) Living within our means John, living within our means. Besides, (he takes a cigarette from his top pocket and calmly lights it) we know what would happen if we ever break 65% rule on confectionery items....or at least, if we were ever caught breaking the 65% rule...
John Delaney can only glare as Pat McDaid stands up, the chilling grin still flickering on his lips. He flicks the cigarette into the icy waters. There is silence, each opponent staring into the cold eyes of the other, silently grappling mentally on this dark, windswept outcrop. The DART goes by.
Pat McDaid:...and this is the last time I'm ever letting you take me to Bray. Jesus it's cold!
Fade out.
(To be continued...)
endabob1
16/11/2009, 5:47 AM
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success - bet the ranch on getting to the champs league group stages
The upside ? Funding for a couple of years. The downside ? Extinction.
Hmmm...
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/uploads/assets/docstore/financial_results_nov09.pdf
33m Profit would suggest that Spurs are far from spending their way to extinction.
Where as West Ham appear to be having some financial problems
http://www.whufc.com/staticFiles/eb/3f/0,,12562~147435,00.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/03/west-ham-financial-crisis-37m-loss
I thought you UCD boys knew all about finances :D
peadar1987
16/11/2009, 10:13 AM
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success - bet the ranch on getting to the champs league group stages
The upside ? Funding for a couple of years. The downside ? Extinction.
Hmmm...
Funding you say? Where do I sign up?
John83
16/11/2009, 11:35 AM
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success - bet the ranch on getting to the champs league group stages
The upside ? Funding for a couple of years. The downside ? Extinction.
Hmmm...
You seem to be short one of these:
http://www.tynansanger.com/uploaded_images/sarcasm_detector-710628.jpg
pineapple stu
16/11/2009, 11:39 AM
I think this whole thread has blown that thing to smithereens.
I think that's kind of the point.
galwayjames
16/11/2009, 3:41 PM
Yes, of course, you mean like Shels, Cork, Drogs, Bohs, Spurs, Newcastle etc etc etc - a guaranteed way to success
What did Newcastle ever win? :confused:
Really not sure what thread to put this on but there was conflicting views on the way forward for Irish Soccer in the News of the World yesterday.
Our former great leader Mr. Aherne was lamenting the current state of the LOI and in addition to list out the well know tragidies that have befallen the league this season he also believes that Shelbourne not getting promoted again this season is another shameful event. His advice was for the league to go part-time, all clubs, until the recession is over and then 'pray' that it improves after that.
On the previous page an editorial proclaimed that the FAI should copy the IRFU and bankroll all clubs so that they can attract top players to the league and compete at the highest possible level. I think they were suggesting that the FAI were taking a big gamble on the Aviva stadium and instead they should have used that money to fund the clubs.
Oh ya, Felix Healy reckons the problem is there are more Man Utd supporters in Derry than there are LOI supporters in the whole of the country- he might be right.
What did Newcastle ever win? :confused:
See the John 83 thread above !
Acornvilla
16/11/2009, 5:07 PM
What did Newcastle ever win? :confused:
intertoto cup when glenn roder was in charge
bluemovie
16/11/2009, 5:33 PM
The Sunday Times Business section had a page about the League's financial woes yesterday. Bizarrely, it had a picture of Baddiel and Skinner at the top with Liam Carroll, Garrett Kelleher and John Delaney. It wasn't bad in fairness. It even had balance in Jonathan Roche (I think) saying that clubs in England go bust or into administration regularly without all the hysterical publicity.
They managed to interview Tom Coughlan although they failed to add the disclaimer "This man is a clown". He reckons the problem is with the format. They've played Sligo 8 times this year and supporters don't want that. Yes, Tom, that's the main issue worrying Cork fans right now.
They also brought up how Kelleher's investment in Pats has come "entirely" from Anglo Irish Bank loans and about the dispute over who owns Dalymount. It said Bohs made more money this year from renting a car park to the Mater hospital than from gate receipts. It went into teams gambling on European success and seemed to recommend the Rovers model.
Some interesting bits. One glaring error though - Fingal are apparently playing Drogheda in the play-off. :(
galwayjames
16/11/2009, 7:00 PM
intertoto cup when glenn roder was in charge
Psssshhhhhh..... I bet you had to research that
Acornvilla
16/11/2009, 7:05 PM
Psssshhhhhh..... I bet you had to research that
i did'nt actually! if i had reseached it i whould have probably given you the date? i just know a lot of random crap:D
Riddickcule
16/11/2009, 7:38 PM
That ST article was an interesting read i must say...
Again, as most articles, they offer no solutions, just stating the obvious, some facts + figures i never knew about....but the best bit:
"Our turnover is around 1.5million, around the same as a small pub in west cork!"
^Tom C*ughlan...
Réiteoir
16/11/2009, 7:38 PM
I'm hearing on the grapevine that Bohs will come under 65% come the end of the month and will be safe from any sanction
galwayjames
16/11/2009, 8:14 PM
By the way this is the stupidest thread I've read since I've been on here.
Acornvilla
16/11/2009, 9:05 PM
By the way this is the stupidest thread I've read since I've been on here.
thenquit helping the problem :D
Dillonman
16/11/2009, 9:08 PM
Is the 65% rule subject to the time of applying for a licence or can you actually go over it say a month after getting your licence or is it an ongoing inspection, if you get where Im coming from here?
By the way this is the stupidest thread I've read since I've been on here.
I don't disagree but I will see your "stupidest thread" and raise you a "stupidest issue in the League".
All of this chutney about the league and finances and tv money and sponsorship and marketing and the salary cap and fran gavin is all flannel unless the clubs start to manage.
This league is financially viable, decent quality, great entertainment, not so good facilities admittedly with the big flaming elephant in the room being the crass mismanagement of individuals in clubs
John83
17/11/2009, 12:07 PM
Is the 65% rule subject to the time of applying for a licence or can you actually go over it say a month after getting your licence or is it an ongoing inspection, if you get where Im coming from here?
For the purposes of licensing, it's assessed once a year, based on your end of year accounts. That's supposed to be a yes/no decision - if you're over you're punished with relegation. No one's been punished in this way yet (well, arguably Cobh might have, but they went for bigger reasons), which smells fishy (well, fudgy) to many people here.
Separately, they also keep an eye on it in the monthly accounts. If your projected budget is way off, they can impose a transfer embargo and possibly other sanctions until you fix it. This has happened to Galway at least, possibly others.
pineapple stu
17/11/2009, 12:12 PM
The clubs will get punished for the 65% rule when they break it and it's not a practice. Last year a practice. The system works.
sixesandsevens
17/11/2009, 6:46 PM
Can anyone tell me how the FAI monitor the 65% rule, do they have their own external auditors to check these clubs out or are they relying solely on the joker accountants at a club to pass on the numbers?
John83
18/11/2009, 11:40 AM
Can anyone tell me how the FAI monitor the 65% rule, do they have their own external auditors to check these clubs out or are they relying solely on the joker accountants at a club to pass on the numbers?
The end of year accounts used to assess the rule for licensing are supposed to be audited.
For month to month monitoring, the FAI's compliance officer (Smith, who was interviewed here last year) just goes over a form the clubs fill out themselves - open to fraud, I guess, but if they don't tally with the end of year accounts, that should ring alarm bells.
sixesandsevens
19/11/2009, 4:44 PM
I guess you know more about this issue than me John83. But would it not be a good idea for the FAI to hire an auditor to trawl over clubs books? As you said yourself its open to fraud and books can always be cooked to balance up. The sight of an external auditor showing up each season should be enough to keep most clubs on their toes and stop them from misbehaving?
John83
19/11/2009, 4:51 PM
I guess you know more about this issue than me John83. But would it not be a good idea for the FAI to hire an auditor to trawl over clubs books? As you said yourself its open to fraud and books can always be cooked to balance up. The sight of an external auditor showing up each season should be enough to keep most clubs on their toes and stop them from misbehaving?
Smith is an auditor (ex-KPMG or PWC or someone like that), and it's pretty much his job to spot this stuff. In theory, the end of year audit should be clean. I don't know how true that is in practice - regardless of anything else, auditors make mistakes.
I don't know what's required here to cut out the crap, but I'd love to see a couple of seasons go by without a club going boom.
Riddickcule
19/11/2009, 4:57 PM
Would anyone agree with my idea:
Instead of central contracting, why not just have every stadium to be in fully owned by the FAI? for the time being of course.
Schumi
19/11/2009, 5:34 PM
Why?
.
Acornvilla
19/11/2009, 5:52 PM
Would anyone agree with my idea:
Instead of central contracting, why not just have every stadium to be in fully owned by the FAI? for the time being of course.
what use is that to clubs who have their act together and own their ground??
Riddickcule
19/11/2009, 9:33 PM
Because, then FAI can develop our bleedin run down grounds coz the clubs don't seem to priortise that.
Most grounds are still the same as years before, when supposedly incomes have rose.
Infrastructure is far,far more important than o.t.t. wages.
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