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TommyT
02/03/2004, 6:04 PM
The Sunday Times had a list of the average attendences at the Celtic League. Connacht were 2200, Leinster 4050 and Munster 4300. Ulster (of limited relevance) was 6000. Also noticed in the RTE guide that 180,000 people watched the Ireland-France match on RTE, ie 10,000 less than watched the Pats v Bohs Cup Semi.

Dodge
02/03/2004, 6:08 PM
But as long as the people in power played rugby in school we'll get overloads of it.

TommyT
02/03/2004, 6:40 PM
We'll get less if we start complaining and challenging their bull**** though. Brown (CE of the IRFU) was in the paper the other week saying they were the only professional sport in the country. The Celtic League is what's show on TG4 if we could get say one game a month on that it'd be an improvement.

max power
02/03/2004, 8:22 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TommyT
[B]We'll get less if we start complaining and challenging their bull**** though. Brown (CE of the IRFU) was in the paper the other week saying they were the only professional sport in the country.


he said that in an interview on newstalk about 8 weeks ago...there is a lot of money behind rugby in this country, powerful money.....

lopez
02/03/2004, 9:51 PM
I've always been surprised how a game between two toff schools gets more snoozepaper coverage than the FAI cup final. Say Blackrock against Belvedere College in the Leinster Schools Cup Final with all the colour photos, top writers and horse mierda that goes with it. FFS, the only people that are interested are the parents (and I'd bet some of them couldn't give a f*ck, cos that's why they sent their kids there in the first place). :mad:

Footie_Fan
02/03/2004, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by lopez
I've always been surprised how a game between two toff schools gets more snoozepaper coverage than the FAI cup final. Say Blackrock against Belvedere College in the Leinster Schools Cup Final with all the colour photos, top writers and horse mierda that goes with it. FFS, the only people that are interested are the parents (and I'd bet some of them couldn't give a f*ck, cos that's why they sent their kids there in the first place). :mad:

The reason the Senior Cup gets so much coverage is because it is the breathing ground for the stars of the future. Ireland has one of the best schools rugby systems in the world. It is the envy of many including the World Champions. Underlined by the fact that last years Irish Schools Side beat France, England and Wales. To win the tournament. (Don't think Scotland entered, look at their current situation!)

The Senior Cup Final easily gets a higher attendance then the FAI Cup Final and thus justifies more attention. If soccer had the same setup we would be up there with the best of them.

brendy_éire
02/03/2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by TommyT
Ulster (of limited relevance) was 6000.

Care to explain?

TommyT
03/03/2004, 2:07 AM
Originally posted by brendy_eire
Care to explain?

If your trying to suggest I'm some sort of Free State Shoneen you've picked the wrong man. Basically Ulster don't play in a city with an EL team. Though obviously 4 EL teams are from Ulster so it's of LIMITED but not NO relevance.

TommyT
03/03/2004, 2:08 AM
Unfortunately the Schools Cup Final usually gets a crowd not dissimilar to the FAI Cup final.

lopez
03/03/2004, 9:45 AM
Originally posted by Footie_Fan
The reason the Senior Cup gets so much coverage is because it is the breathing ground for the stars of the future. Ireland has one of the best schools rugby systems in the world. It is the envy of many including the World Champions. Underlined by the fact that last years Irish Schools Side beat France, England and Wales. To win the tournament for that tournament. (Don't think Scotland entered, look at their current situation!)
I can see your case. Private and church schools are the breeding ground of Irish rugby. People from national schools rarely become great rugby players probably because the game isn't played there and it's hardly the sport for urban areas. But I'm wondering if many of the people who are there are just on some afternoon off from the office with a nose-bag and endless Cava to give a Barry White about the game. It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
The Senior Cup Final easily gets a higher attendance then the FAI Cup Final and thus justifies more attention. If soccer had the same setup we would be up there with the best of them.
I don't know about that. We're hardly up there in rugby. A quarter finals place by the skin of our teeth in the WC before a severe hammering by not even a finalist hardly constitutes us as one of the elite in a sport professional in less than a dozen countries.

brendy_éire
03/03/2004, 9:57 AM
Originally posted by TommyT
If your trying to suggest I'm some sort of Free State Shoneen you've picked the wrong man. Basically Ulster don't play in a city with an EL team. Though obviously 4 EL teams are from Ulster so it's of LIMITED but not NO relevance.

Fair enough.

I think attendences directly relate to media coverage, unfortunately. We really should go to TG4 and see I'm they'd be interested in showing eL games as regularly as they show Celtic League matches (maybe once a week/fortnight), I'm sure they'd be interested.
Rugby attendences might be higher also due to their catchment area, ie an entire province, unlike eL teams, which are usually restricted to a town/county.

SÓC
03/03/2004, 10:08 AM
Im not certain but I dont think Paul O'Connell went to a 'private-church' school.

There has been a swing away from the total dominance of such schools to an extent, but not totally of course.

Footie_Fan
03/03/2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by lopez
It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.

It is strange but it is down to the commitment of the past pupils and everyone who has ever been involved with the schools. There is also massive social gatherings after the matches etc.


Originally posted by lopez
I don't know about that. We're hardly up there in rugby. A quarter finals place by the skin of our teeth in the WC before a severe hammering by not even a finalist hardly constitutes us as one of the elite in a sport professional in less than a dozen countries.

Well even at that we are in the top 8 and if Humphrey's had of slotted that drop goal against Australia we had Scotland in the quarter final and an easy passage to the semi final. Realistically we are the fifth best in the world behind England, France, Australia and New Zealand. Which for a small country like us is good going. Our playing population is only the fraction of the above four mentioned countries.

my left foot
03/03/2004, 1:43 PM
its quite ironic that lopez should mention longford in his argument.alan matthews(towns manager)played rugby for ballinteer community school,hardly middle class.he was also m8s with several lads who won the leinster schools cup with de le salle churchtown in 82ish again hardly middle class as the schools serve nutgrove and holylands ,one of which is well named

Macy
03/03/2004, 1:49 PM
Originally posted by lopez
It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.
Eh? How are we getting dragged into this? We brought plenty to the cup final, in what was the biggest attendance in years.

Besides, the schools are garanteed whatever the total number of students is, plus their parents... Before you mention past pupils (basically anyone that's still alive) and all those that have connections to them.

max power
03/03/2004, 1:50 PM
If st mels from longford were playing in a lenister gaa final your looking at a major crowd as well, a lot of former pupils go along to support their old school, me included.....it would get well over 10,000 ( from longford alone ) and a lot of coverage in national papers as well

eoinh
03/03/2004, 2:14 PM
The All-ireland rugby league has gone down the tubes. In the republic senior rugby consist of two big teams (Leinster and Munster) and a team which attracts considerably less interest - Connaught.

At least the eircom league is relatively nationwide.


BTW schoolboy football is as important to football as it is to rugby.

The main problem with LOI football in newspaper terms is that it isnt an ABC1 sport. Of course the newspapers wont admit that this is the reason they wont cover it.

lopez
03/03/2004, 2:33 PM
Sóc: I said private AND church schools not private-church schools. The quote button is there for a reason. :rolleyes: OK, so there are some exceptions to the rules. As in all walks of life.

My left foot: Where did I mention middle class? Private schools are predominately middle class in England, especially more so since Labour got in, not that working class childrens' parents had a clue how to get an assisted place at Eton. In Ireland fees to church schools are (or at least were) means tested more fairly than in England. One example is Presentation College Cork where my wife's family and her friends' brothers, went to.

Macy: Footie Fan says that the Leinster Schools cup gets a bigger attendance than the FAI Cup. Don't know myself, but maybe EL clubs should affiliate themselves to private schools if true. Solve the attendance problem by all accounts.

TommyT
03/03/2004, 2:56 PM
Lads Rugby is a middle class game end of, a couple of exceptions doesn't change that. **** all non-fee paying Church run schools play the game. It's also predominantly urban in Ireland.

Just cos it gets similar attendences doesn't of course mean the Leinster Schools Cup Final (played on Patricks Day) should get more coverage than the FAI Cup Final (it doesn't BTW) one is a national event the other would be of limited interest to those who aren't there. Similar to the way GAA county finals often get large crowds but aren't national events either.

Morto-you're missing the point, I'm not pointing out the attendences are higher oh how terrible, I'm pointing out the average attendences are not much higher so the totalswould be much lower and the viewing figuresaren't that much higher either so HTF can RTE/TG4 justify the ****e coverage they give the EL.

my left foot
03/03/2004, 3:03 PM
sorry lopez,you must have thrown me off the trail with your first post (two toff schools).a lot of the differences in coverage in ireland are for historical reasons,also the spread of support for and choices of games played.rugby and football still suffer from gaa`s ban, although long gone i`m sure there are kids in ireland whose dads push them towards the "noncolonial" games,although thats off the point.the point is that you seem to be attacking this from an english school point of view an american school point of view would be more apropriate.ie american college sport.i`d hazard a guess that in years to come school football will be as heavily covered in ireland as a tradition builds up.this will have nothing to do with professional sport at all

Schumi
03/03/2004, 3:06 PM
The attendances at the Schools' Cup final is a symptom of the major problem in Ireland: people who go to the big event and not to games every week. Saying that more people go to a one-off game than to another one-off game is no reason to say that rugby deserves more coverage in general than football.

However the biggest problem is that the media coverage of Irish football is terrible, not that rugby gets too much coverage. If the papers had less coverage of the AIL or schools' rugby, what would they replace it with? More of the same; more GAA and more British football.

parnell ranger
03/03/2004, 3:10 PM
originally posted by tommy t,

If your trying to suggest I'm some sort of Free State Shoneen you've picked the wrong man. Basically Ulster don't play in a city with an EL team. Though obviously 4 EL teams are from Ulster so it's of LIMITED but not NO relevance.

derry monaghon harps and who is the 4th?

SÓC
03/03/2004, 3:13 PM
Originally posted by lopez
Sóc: I said private AND church schools not private-church schools. The quote button is there for a reason. :rolleyes: OK, so there are some exceptions to the rules. As in all walks of life

Wahey look at me Im using it now;)

I ment to write 'private/church school'.

There are a fair few Community Schools now who are really getting organised with their rugby. The improved fourtunes of Irish Rugby have allowed to it to try and move away from its traditional base i.e. Posh gits and Limerick people. I'd still class it as a minority sport.

my left foot
03/03/2004, 3:14 PM
i`d agree with schumi in the short term but in the long term as football grows in popularity i could see a jamacain style sea change.you have to remember that 88/90 woke this country up to football

eoinh
03/03/2004, 3:39 PM
Originally posted by my left foot
you have to remember that 88/90 woke this country up to football

i wouldnt agree with that. it woke SOME sections up to football. The same sections that get rugby on to our screens. Football has always been very very popular in ireland. If anything the tendency for people to go to matchs has decreased since the 70's not increased.

my left foot


i`d hazard a guess that in years to come school football will be as heavily covered in ireland as a tradition builds up.this will have nothing to do with professional sport at all

School football has a great tradition in Ireland - it always has. It just hasent been played "by the right schools".

When it comes to keeping football out of certain schools the rugby brigade are much more vociferous than the GAA ever were. At least the GAA were up front about it.

TommyT
03/03/2004, 5:27 PM
Originally posted by Schumi
If the papers had less coverage of the AIL or schools' rugby, what would they replace it with? More of the same; more GAA and more British football.

Not neccessarily-anyway I was really talking about the TV. Newspaper coverage is fine in the tabloids and the budget for outside broadcasts, time alloted to sport etc would be limited.

Can we get the discussion away from schools rugby it's a bit of an exception. The crowds for the latter stages are bigger than the AIL or CL and many people who follow rugby would prefer to see their school (or old school) win the cup than see Ireland win the 6N.

Footie_Fan
03/03/2004, 5:37 PM
Originally posted by eoinh
School football has a great tradition in Ireland - it always has. It just hasent been played "by the right schools".

When it comes to keeping football out of certain schools the rugby brigade are much more vociferous than the GAA ever were. At least the GAA were up front about it.

Well most rugby schools I know also play football maybe not to same extent but if you were to research your points you would know that Blackrock, the most decorated rugby school of them all (64 Senior Cup wins and in the final this year), won the All Ireland Schools football last year.

my left foot
03/03/2004, 5:40 PM
i suppose its a coincedence that our under age success came about roughly eight years after our first world cup .........my brothers grew up in dublin-newbridge-ballina-carnew-dublin they couldnt find a team in the first or second and claimed to introduce football into the third,very very popular my hole.watch ireland play in a pub in ireland or england and you soon realize the general lack of understanding ,notwithstanding their support......people stopped going to matchs when the big match started being shown and they realized the low standard on offer in the loi(not me i suffered on at glenmalure park)..........the gaa banned my da from playing for galway cos he played a testimonial rugby game,banned my bro from school gaa team cos he played footie at weekend,gaa winker pe teacher wouldnt let us form school team,gaa tried to stop liam brady playin footie then banned him when he wouldnt stop....gaa upfront get to fook

my left foot
03/03/2004, 5:45 PM
to get back to the point tommy t football will eventually be the biggest game in ireland but it has to grow into it from an admittedly low base and the media will have to follow it

eoinh
03/03/2004, 6:01 PM
Originally posted by Footie_Fan
Well most rugby schools I know also play football maybe not to same extent but if you were to research your points you would know that Blackrock, the most decorated rugby school of them all (64 Senior Cup wins and in the final this year), won the All Ireland Schools football last year.


Research my points? I went to a rugby playing school so i should know.


The blackrock achievement made the news because it was such an unusual event.


My left foot

but it has to grow into it from an admittedly low base

i dont think football is at a low base

my left foot
03/03/2004, 6:09 PM
yea but you also like the upfront gaa, as i said get to fook

eoinh
03/03/2004, 6:32 PM
Originally posted by my left foot
yea but you also like the upfront gaa, as i said get to fook


Me, like the GAA - you must be mad.

cant stand bogball or stickfighting.


ps its spelt f uck

my left foot
03/03/2004, 6:44 PM
see your previous post,m8,you praise them for being upfront about their ban on children playing a foreign game,which u claim to love

Footie_Fan
03/03/2004, 6:55 PM
Originally posted by eoinh
Research my points? I went to a rugby playing school so i should know.


Yeah. You should! I don't know of many rugby schools that have an outright ban football.

Beavis
03/03/2004, 7:19 PM
Originally posted by eoinh

The blackrock achievement made the news because it was such an unusual event.
Very unusual indeed.Some rumours say it was a conspiracy in an attempt to shift success from the more renowned soccer schools and to boost interest in rugby playing Dublin.But you didn't hear it from me;)
We actually played them in the group stages of the cup and beat them 1-0.

I went to what would be classed as a GAA school but which has produced many players who have gone on to play professionally...Richard Sadlier,Eamonn Zayed,Glen Fitzpatrick to name a few.The majority of GAA schools around Dublin do allow soccer also.Most rugby schools I know do not.

my left foot
03/03/2004, 7:24 PM
ballinteer boy!!!!!!fookin shame hes crocked

my left foot
03/03/2004, 7:30 PM
these lads r from traditionally productive areas,when we get players from traditionally nonproductive areas nothin will stop us,look at sport in irish emigre countries,we`re nearly always over represented

pete
04/03/2004, 1:23 PM
I'm sure schools rugby gets good attendances cos they onlt play a few games a year a bit like the GAA Championship.

GAA league games vary their attendances mainly in the low thousands.

Maybe the eL should just have county teams & play 1 big knockout competition a year? :eek:

Poor Student
06/03/2005, 9:49 AM
I can't vouch for the other rugby schools but part of the reason for high attendences at Terenure College games is indimidation by the school staff and senior years. When the Senior/Junior Cup season starts in Terenure College at least two days a week students are herded like animals into a hall (rather dangerously) for their small break and forced to chant cup songs bullied along by sixth years and the principal as all exits are blocked no one being allowed out for their break. I was singled out in front of my fellow students including JCT members by the then future principal for not attending matches and interrogated as to why I didn't do so, then told I will be there next time. My younger brother who is now doing his Leaving Cert mocks had his English exam interrupted by the principal for at least 5 minutes annoucing an exam had been changed to facilitate a JCT game and then proceeded to complain about lack of attendence at the games by senior students. I have a great disdain for school rugby as there was a very sick obsession amongst the school autorities towards it. I reckon the combined days and time off school, the drowning of students in 'great' rugby tradition and intimidation helps attendences along. All of these the EL certainly does without.

gspain
06/03/2005, 9:53 PM
i`d agree with schumi in the short term but in the long term as football grows in popularity i could see a jamacain style sea change.you have to remember that 88/90 woke this country up to football

Old myth.

Certainly euro88 and Italia 90 caught the public's and media's attention. However football was the most played sport in this country in 1986 when Jack took over as manager. Just as Saint Patrick didn't really banish all the snakes Jack did not introduce football into this country. (Indeed his detractors claim he got rid of it. :D )

pete
07/03/2005, 2:37 PM
Paragraphs please.

Hurts head to read that text. :eek:

Green Tribe
08/03/2005, 1:39 PM
Paragraphs please.

Hurts head to read that text. :eek:

yea, i can't bring myself to read it :D

pete
08/03/2005, 1:43 PM
Sorry Pete
Had a bad night and wrote it at all hours of the morning - remember it was my first go.


Not discover the edit function for post ;)

Only been to Athlone for 1 game - Cup semi in 1998.

pete
13/04/2005, 4:43 PM
Gerry Desmond...

Former (well very rare anyway) foot.ie contributor.

hamish
13/04/2005, 5:29 PM
Hi Pete - must get a copy of the Cork City programme - gets great reviews - used to meet Gerry and Dave when involved with Athlone - nice blokes - used to produce Town's programme from 1989 to 1995 - called it The Town Review - now they call the prog The Bit of Blue - straight rip off of Sligo Rovers The Bit of Red - and I know the gob****e that came up with that title !!!!!! Cheers Sir Hamish