U21s a complete disaster, Gvens wont comment

[tetsujin1979]

According to fai.ie, the U21s are playing Georgia this morning, but according uefa.com the game is on tomorrow morning.

Links for coverage of the game will appear here - http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=55790&part=sports - tomorrow

[gally]

Ireland 1 v 0 up goal in the 47th min. Carey the sub according to sky sports score centre....

[geysir]

They say 1-1 full time

..... villi equalised on 83mins

[tetsujin1979]

Paddy Madden and Connor Clifford have been called into the squad from the U19s: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100533:madden-and-clifford-join-u21s&catid=3:under-21&Itemid=11

[SkStu]

great for Paddy Madden (and Bohs and the league) and well deserved too! A smashing young player.

[ifk101]

Game today away to Armenia.

Armenia are currently 1up at half time.

[Kingdom]

I dunno. The group they're in, for the collection of players they have seems very possible to challenge in. The U21's should be a job for the likes of John Sheridan or young Irish managers wanting to ply their trade, not the tool thats there at the moment.

[Alf Honn]

3-1 down!

[ifk101]

4-1 Armenia.

We are fielding a very weak team today because we are missing a high number of regulars through injury and suspension. But in saying that, the last time we won a competitive U21 match was at the end of 2007. This can't continue on indefinitely - a change is needed now.

[bwagner]

Damn right joke Don Givens will you please just leave and stop instilling a losing mentallity to our young players

[monsexile]

Surely he has to go now - weakened team or not. Nice to see Sheridan on the scoresheet - hope to see him as a squad regular in the EURO qualifiers - an intelligent young target man.

[Alf Honn]

Givens is a national disgrace. Please do us a favour and go away.


Armenia, with one point from four games, humiliate us.


A weakened team? But only because he chooses to. Remember Treacy and Gunning were axed because of being late by an hour, Stokes is blacklisted and there a number of players ignored by this clown.


Anyone hear the yarn about how Kevin Long got called up?


Apparently, a reporter in Cork rang Givens to recommend Long (who at that point was already being monitored by Burnley, Celtic and a host of others). Goon Givens never even saw him play but, when a player pulled out, he calls him up for the Swiss match in Waterford!


Here is a man well-paid in a full-time job on a never-ending contract.


Gone beyond a joke - the future of our senior team could depend on this.

[Fixer82]

Can't believe he's still in a job. How many players has he fallen out with at this stage? I remember a public spat with Connolly when he didnt give Connolly a chance to explain himself. Who else? Did he have an issue with stokes as well....it's a long enough list anyway I know that.

Terrible man-manager it seems

[Predator]

4-1 loss to Armenia? Wow, weakened squad or not, surely the younger guys know how to play the game? We either haven't got the talent in the squad or we're not playing to our strengths. I haven't seen an under 21 game in a while, so I can't really say where the problem lies.

[Alf Honn]

I haven't seen an under 21 game in a while, so I can't really say where the problem lies -

Most people can. Answer: One man whose name rhymes with GONE

[Predator]

I haven't seen an under 21 game in a while, so I can't really say where the problem lies -

Most people can. Answer: One man whose name rhymes with GONE
Ha, yeah, I'm well aware of the attitude regarding Givens, but I was just saying that he may not be solely to blame. Maybe we just don't have enough quality coming through the ranks. That being said, perhaps the lack of quality in the squad is because the best players are not being picked by Givens.

I think the problem is rooted deeper than the under-21s too. It's evident in all the under-age squads. We're not doing it right at all levels I'm afraid.

[bwagner]

Ha, yeah, I'm well aware of the attitude regarding Givens, but I was just saying that he may not be solely to blame. Maybe we just don't have enough quality coming through the ranks. That being said, perhaps the lack of quality in the squad is because the best players are not being picked by Givens.

I think the problem is rooted deeper than the under-21s too. It's evident in all the under-age squads. We're not doing it right at all levels I'm afraid.



How do we not have the talent when our under 16 under 17 and under 19 teams always seem to win or do well ?????

[Manblue]

David Meyler has been doing quite well for sunderland since his return from injury, any idea why he was dropped for todays game? It does not make much sense to completely change the midfield partnership, even if Garvan was suspended

[Hibs4Ever]

That result this morning was an absolute disgrace. Our U21's are going to be ranked as 5th/6th seeds with the minnows for the next qualifting campaign

[Predator]

How do we not have the talent when our under 16 under 17 and under 19 teams always seem to win or do well ?????
Always? That's just delusional. We haven't done well at under-age really since Kerr's success.

Ireland 1 - 6 Switzerland (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100001:switzerland-end-irish-hopes-of-qualification-to-u19-uefa-championship&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12)

[ifk101]

Always? That's just delusional. We haven't done well at under-age really since Kerr's success.

Ireland 1 - 6 Switzerland (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100001:switzerland-end-irish-hopes-of-qualification-to-u19-uefa-championship&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12)

Switzerland are one of the top European nations at underage level. They won the U17 World Cup the other day. Whilst yes we shouldn't be losing 6-1 to any nation at any level, the results of all of our underage teams are consistently better than those of the U21s.

[Alf Honn]

Ireland 1 - 6 Switzerland (http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100001:switzerland-end-irish-hopes-of-qualification-to-u19-uefa-championship&catid=4:under-19&Itemid=12)

Think it's harsh to single out that result - especially as that team went on to beat Sweden three days later.

Also, the U17s and U19s have both qualified from their UEFA groups this season (both did so after 2 of 3 games). McCaffrey qualified the 17s for the 2008 EURO finals last year too (first time for 8 yrs).

It is unfair to bracket these teams with Givens.

Today's result is just the latest lowpoint on a steep decline for him. He's on course to finish bottom for the third campaign in a row.

Of more importance than results is his man-management. When was the last time (if ever) a player has cited Givens as having a positive influence on his career despite him being in his 10th year of the job?

In contrast, Kerr and Vinny Butler were looked up to by players in the underage set-up.

Immediate action required. George Burley got the bullet for less.

[Predator]

Think it's harsh to single out that result - especially as that team went on to beat Sweden three days later.

For some reason people think that by pointing out some of the inconsistencies of the under 19 and under 17 teams, I'm excusing Givens' performance as manager of the under 21s, which isn't my intent. Sure, McCaffrey's sides might not be doing as bad as Givens', but that doesn't exactly mean they're doing well either. I was simply stating that we're not exactly doing the best at all levels, which is true enough.


The under 19 team that lost 6-1 to Switzerland, also lost to Belgium in that group, the win against Sweden meant nothing and we didn't qualify. They won against Malta and Liechtenstein in the qualifying for that group, losing to France.

This year, they've beaten Albania and San Marino in the qualifying. I think we can agree that the teams the under-19 team has beaten in the past two years have been teams we expect to beat. We'll see how they do against the Italians tomorrow. I wish them the best of luck

[LeixlipRed]

Embarrassing stuff. I'm fairly Don Givens could be convicted of mass murder and still keep his job.

[Kingdom]

In fairness there have been numerous occasions over the last decade where an Irish youth team has gotten results that made me stop and look a second time.

What Brian Kerr and his underage players achieved in that 3/4 yr period was incredible, and probably won't be repeated, so taking that as an aside and concentrating on the breakup of old Europe, my perception of physical differences between ourselves and other European countries (what a generalisation!), some of the performances over the years have been exceptional.
There was one campaign about 5 yrs ago, the U19's knocked out Denmark and Italy from the Elite stage one and then got past Greece and Sweden in the one tournament.

The upshot is that this man is a clown. His sole responsibility is to provide players for the senior side (in his opinion). How about a left back Don?

[Razors left peg]

I refuse to believe that the reason we lose 4-1 to feckin Armenia is because we dont have players of enough quality. I dont give a sh1te if Givens comes and said we hit the crossbar 10 times and their 4 goals were all down to 4 enormous slices of bad luck. The man is damaging irish football. He is constantly falling out with players and seems to have the mindset that footballers should all still act like the did back in the 1960s.

Im not fully of the belief that we need to be hugely successful at under21 level because I would be happy for only 1 or 2 players of every group to come through to become full internationals.But his record at this stage is beyond belief.

Somebody in this thread said something that I have believed for years.The under21 manager should have ambitions to move into the senior job as far as Im concerned and in having that hunger he will want to motivate his players to be as hungry to move into the senior squad too.
I dont know if he even has the qualifications or if he would even want it but I would love to see Kenny Cunningham take over.Always thought he was a great talker and organiser on the pitch and as an ex Ireland captain he would have the respect the players.Plus he is young so wouldnt be so out of touch with the young players like the clown in the job at the moment.

[rambler14]

Givens has to go now!

[carloz]

So we are in a group trailing behind the powerhouses of Georgia, Armenia and Estonia. That is beyond humiliating. Why have we been degrading our under 21s for years now by having a man in charge who is more clueless than Steve Staunton ever was. Why can't we get a good young and up and coming manager in the position with the posibility being that if he does a good job he could possibly get the full international job in time

[elroy]

Lads how embarrassing is that result? Unfortunately it will fall below the radar and not get any press because of the game tomorrow night but what an awful result. 4 points from 6 games is an appalling return for a country that would like to consider itself in the second or third tier of european football.

[davey]

All I can think is that Givens must have a tape of the whole FAI board f*cking a herd of goats.

[theref]

I think the FAI have to seriously look at Don Givens position its really not good enoughanymore.The U21 set up should be a platform for players to get into the senior squad maybe Liam Brady should take over he done a good job when he was at Arsenal what ya's think ????
And he could really test him to see could he do the senior job!!

[endabob1]

I think the FAI have to seriously look at Don Givens position its really not good enoughanymore.The U21 set up should be a platform for players to get into the senior squad maybe Liam Brady should take over he done a good job when he was at Arsenal what ya's think ????
And he could really test him to see could he do the senior job!!

Brady would seem the obvious candidate but would he give up his role at Arsenal, I seriously doubt it. Could he work part-time while being part-time involved with the seniors and full-time at Arsenal.. I doubt that too.

This could be a role for a former player who has taken coaching badges and can be groomed for potential future management of the senior team.

[as_i_say]

This is Ireland people. Dont y'all know that failure is rewarded?!

[Alf Honn]

"It was by far the worst performance I can remember given the ranking of the opposition.

"I’ll look at the DVD and see where it went wrong but it would do the players good to look at it too because it was a horror show for a lot of them. It’s a team game but they have to look at themselves now."

---


Predictable Don - deflect the blame to the players.

The FAI should show leadership now but don't hold your breath.

[Lenny82]

The FAI must be saving a fortune on win bonuses!!!

Ridiculous at this stage that he still has a job after going 2 years without a competetive win. There are 4 games left in the qualifiers and his next 2 games are 2 home games against Estonia and Armenia so he is not going to step down as we really should win both those games, however, if we don't finish at least 3rd in this group, he has to be sacked!!!

[Jacky08]

Time for Givens to be chopped ... no doubt about it ...what is he bringing to the show

[Two Touch]

Don Givens is an absolute disaster for the Irish U21 set-up & always has been. He has done absolutely nothing with the group of players he has now or any of the teamshe had in the past. Has he achieved any significant results in recent times? I cant think of any. He still wants players to act like they are in the 60's/70's & i think this is the reason he falls out with so many of them. Football has moved on but it seems Givens is stuck in the old days.

There are decent players in this U21 squad. Most of them are with clubs in the Championship & even the PL but it is very very clear that they are being mismanaged big time & Givens has to take ultimate responsibility & stop trying to pass the buck.

I agree with the post above that the F.A.I should be looking to put a recent ex-player in charge (Kenny Cunningham for example) similiar to waht the FA have done with Stuart Pearce. Someone with a little bit of drive & ambition that the players can try & match & not someone who is just happy to be in a job.

[macdermesser]

where are the journalists op ed pieces on given and the u21s? Have they no opinion? Cotowing to the fai? No interest from readers? Its usually media pressure that helps get managers the push. Or the fans. But apathy on all sides and his cosy relationship with the board will ensure his future. Really is beyond belief at this stage.

[A face]

where are the journalists op ed pieces on given and the u21s? Have they no opinion (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=127064)? Cotowing to the fai? No interest from readers? Its usually media pressure that helps get managers the push. Or the fans. But apathy on all sides and his cosy relationship with the board will ensure his future. Really is beyond belief at this stage.

No, no they dont have any opinions (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=127064), they can shovel any auld crap up and they know it wont be contested. And cosy is the operative word, they couldn't give a toss. No one will step above the parapet. Pathetic at this stage .... how long is he there? 10 years or so?

[Murfinator]

Dunphy had a go at Don Givens tonight, suggesting that he needs to go. He complained about the series of bust ups he's had with players as well as the abysmal results and he's dead right.

[cestlavie]

If anybody on here has any influence on FAI, please help the country get rid of Don Givens. He is a complete disaster. We cant keep going on turning a blind eye to the results under his tenure or the fact that he keeps falling out with some of the potential stars of the future.

[drummerboy]

Dunphy must have been reading foot.ie because people have been suggesting Givens dismissal for about 5-6 years now.

[irishultra]

our footballing infrastructure is probably beginning to catch up with us. as other countries improve our 4.5 million population is becoming more and more apparent. our pool however widens due to the history of irish emmigration to britain

[Alf Honn]

Can't let the Paris conspiracy spare Givens from scrutiny.

His latest pearls of wisdom came in today's Star

"With regards to my own position, I haven't givn it much thought. One poor performance in the last nine, for me, doesn't suddenly warrant consideration of my position.

I'd be very surprised if, at the Association, my position would suddenly come under threat because of one poor performance in Armenia.

"I've got a contract until 2011. I wouldn't have the slightest worry about anything when the questions are being asked by journalists."

Vivid thoughts emerge of Givens uttering these words from a reclining chair while smoking a Hamlet.

Is there any shame to this man? Does he take any responsibility to the mess he's presided over! 10 years and counting.

[Jofspring]

Can't let the Paris conspiracy spare Givens from scrutiny.

His latest pearls of wisdom came in today's Star

"With regards to my own position, I haven't givn it much thought. One poor performance in the last nine, for me, doesn't suddenly warrant consideration of my position.

I'd be very surprised if, at the Association, my position would suddenly come under threat because of one poor performance in Armenia.

"I've got a contract until 2011. I wouldn't have the slightest worry about anything when the questions are being asked by journalists."

Vivid thoughts emerge of Givens uttering these words from a reclining chair while smoking a Hamlet.

Is there any shame to this man? Does he take any responsibility to the mess he's presided over! 10 years and counting.

What that says to me is, i don't care, if they want to get rid of me they'll have to pay me cause i'm here till 2011.

[Deckydee]

If anybody on here has any influence on FAI, please help the country get rid of Don Givens. He is a complete disaster. We cant keep going on turning a blind eye to the results under his tenure or the fact that he keeps falling out with some of the potential stars of the future.

Bang on there. I cant stand that cnut

[Deckydee]

Can't let the Paris conspiracy spare Givens from scrutiny.

His latest pearls of wisdom came in today's Star

"With regards to my own position, I haven't givn it much thought. One poor performance in the last nine, for me, doesn't suddenly warrant consideration of my position.

I'd be very surprised if, at the Association, my position would suddenly come under threat because of one poor performance in Armenia.

"I've got a contract until 2011. I wouldn't have the slightest worry about anything when the questions are being asked by journalists."

Vivid thoughts emerge of Givens uttering these words from a reclining chair while smoking a Hamlet.

Is there any shame to this man? Does he take any responsibility to the mess he's presided over! 10 years and counting.


Again bang on - Christ can we get him out?? Its his fault for the whole Stephen Ireland fiasco

[FarBeag]

Again bang on - Christ can we get him out?? Its his fault for the whole Stephen Ireland fiasco


I would blame him for many things but the only one to blame for the Steven Ireland fiasco is Steven Ireland himself.

[Deckydee]

I would blame him for many things but the only one to blame for the Steven Ireland fiasco is Steven Ireland himself.

Of course but he got the ball rolling imo