Send them back!

[Monkfish]

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Mayor-of-Limerick-34Send-home.5814604.jp

Has he a point?

[Riddickcule]

Shameful, you can't just accept immigrants when times are good and then tell them to feck off when we bust, clearly that is not ethical

How about irish people emigrating? Would you like them to be told to "go home"

[Mr A]

Fair enough. And all unemployed persons of Irish descent around the world should be sent back here also.

[Longfordian]

And placed in Limerick.

[dahamsta]

Save the jokes for OT please.

[jamie m]

Fine Gael should really distance themselves from this guys comments. They are dangerous, inciteful, and will only serve to whip up unfounded hysteria and hatred towards Irelands immigrant population. Its one thing to have individuals from the far right coming out with this kind of rhetoric but when someone from a main-stream party is is saying it, it becomes a little bit more worrying.

[L37Ultra]

Am I the only one who hates the say "non-nationals"?

As if they have no nationality like?

[dahamsta]

Yip, it's bugged me for ages. It's the new black, and that's not actually meant to be a joke.

[Bluebeard]

Has he a point?

No. He has an eye for the reactionary vote, and probably "Irish" Daily Mail readers.

[jamie m]

Am I the only one who hates the say "non-nationals"?

As if they have no nationality like?

Its really offensive and dehumanizing. Feel the same way about the term illegal aliens

[Riddickcule]

Jaysus, must be hard being an immigrant in this bleedin country

[brianw82]

I'd rather have most of the Irish layabouts that live in my area deported rather than the accession state immigrants. Half of 'em have never worked a day in their lives. Anyway, hot Polish burds = yum.

It's likely that this Mayor has no foreign people in his social circle. If he did, he wouldn't dream of making comments like that.

[Da Real Rover]

What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?
Nice to see the blueshirts returning to their roots.

[thischarmingman]

http://lefteyeonthemedia.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/scapegoat.jpg

[Monkfish]

Jaysus, must be hard being an immigrant in this bleedin country

Ya, free everything.

Awful. :rolleyes:

[bennocelt]

As said on V Browne show last night, the majority of EU citizens in this country are British, well over 60 per cent.

This idiot should be kicked out of FG. And out of the country himself.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Ya, free everything.

Awful. :rolleyes:

Ah jaysis Monkfish do better.

Define "free everything".

Far more people born and bred in this country have milked it than any number from beyond it.

I don't condone benefit tourism but I don't even get the impression that's what Kiely is talking about. It reads like he's using our current ecomomic woes as a cover for some other agenda ...not that he's alone in that either.

[dahamsta]

Monkfish, you'll need to do better than than if you want to continue to comment in CA.

[Monkfish]

Far more people born and bred in this country have milked it than any number from beyond it.


Certainly agree with this.

Kiely was also on about people been on the dole should be out sweeping the roads or something for their money (must look it up) makes sense with so many people out of work that the country could benefit in some small way?

Also had a go at local Sinn Fein members who critisised city council for not adjusting Taits clock. Said something like they (SF) must all be on the dole wondering the streets looking for something to complain about)http://www.limerickindependent.com/local-news/local-news/kiely-hits-back/

As President of my local rugby club I feel the need to follow his example. Rugby can do no wrong after all.
http://www.thomondrfc.com/index2.html

[Magicme]

I hate the non-nationals term too.

Monkfish if you want to see how well off some of our immigrants are I suggest you go volunteer at your local refugee centre and see the misery they really have to live with. No one in their right mind would move here unless they really had to.

Sure there are some chancers but its well known that if you want to know about dole fraud or getting extra benefits ask the Irish who havent done a days work in their lives.

[Monkfish]

Monkfish if you want to see how well off some of our immigrants are I suggest you go volunteer at your local refugee centre .

Limerick FC's club offices are next to one.
http://www.galwaybaygallery.com/webdesign/artofrefuge/knocka2.html

They come and go in their own cars which they drive while talking on their mobiles. Kids are decked out in the latest gear while the babys are brought around in Mamas & Papas prams.

I suggest you go and have a look for yourself and ask the security guard if he thinks anyone of them has ever passed a driving test.

Who pays for the cars? Insurance? Tax? Nct? ect....

[OneRedArmy]

Limerick FC's club offices are next to one.
http://www.galwaybaygallery.com/webdesign/artofrefuge/knocka2.html

They come and go in their own cars which they drive while talking on their mobiles. Kids are decked out in the latest gear while the babys are brought around in Mamas & Papas prams.

I suggest you go and have a look for yourself and ask the security guard if he thinks anyone of them has ever passed a driving test.

Who pays for the cars? Insurance? Tax? Nct? ect....They have cars, mobiles and prams?! The indignity of it all.

The Irish unemployed must be disgusted when they roll up in their carts, swathed in rags.

On the enforcement of road rules, surely one for the guards rather than Welfare?

[MysticMon]

They come and go in their own cars which they drive while talking on their mobiles. Kids are decked out in the latest gear while the babys are brought around in Mamas & Papas prams.


Probably no were near whats been talked about, but.....

GUARDS are not interested in the immigrants and worrying about their cars if they have been NCT'd or not. they dont care if their veichles insured, Taxed, etc as they cant be bothered to waste time in gettin in translaters in.... unfortunately am one of these Dole bums due to some of theses immigrants & the Government. in another side of things some immigrants are well off because they know what hard work is, and have been working since a young age and not like some of the Irish people that wouldnt know what work was, or for that matter IS!!!

Been a little Discriminating i think!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Magicme]

Monkfish, I have spent alot of time in refugee centres and I know what the conditions are and only a few of them have cars and many people from this country have no tax, insurance or nct so this is not an argument that stands up.

Some of them brought some money with them which affords them to buy phones etc but they still deserve a certain standard of living. Most of their kids wearing the "latest gear" have received them from donations or bought in 2nd hand shops (my sister volunteered in a charity shop during the summer where 95% of their customers were refugees and immigrants) as they have very little disposable income.

As for asking the security guards giving their opinion, I would rather get it from the centre manager or the inhabitants themselves.

Mystic, I dont think it is right for you to say that you are on the dole because of immigrants, as that is not entirely true. As for the guards not bothering that is not quite accurate either, they rarely stop anyone to check nct or tax and with their limited resources stretched to the limit as it is it is very unlikely that they have the time to chase everything.

I think putting the blame on immigrants and refugees etc is an unintelligent Hitleresque lazy way out when it is our own government who have screwed us over.

[jebus]

I helped out a guy on a photography shoot in a centre in Cork a few years back and I'd agree with Magicme on this

That myth that they all have big cars and loads of money is absolute nonsense, usually pulled out by people like our esteemed mayor when he thinks he can score a few political points.

He issued a retraction and apology in today's Limerick Leader as well

[MysticMon]

not blamein immigrants entirely, and yes i know it all down to the government as to why am out of a job!!

[Royal rover]

As someone who has spent alot of time living in the UK - i find this guys comments unreal - just for arguements sake - having spent some time living on a council estate in the north-west of England when i was younger - there were a large number of irish and irish descent living around me - who were happy to live of the system on welfare benefits etc, and who had no interest in working, and never have done, at the same time take a wander around parts of london and you will see the same thing among some of the Irish community - i'm not saying that everyone is at it but it does happen - unfortunately this was always going to happen and certain sectors of society will want some one to blame.

[jamie m]

Fair play to those posters who are countering the unfounded dangerous myth that refugees/assylum seekers are somehow been bankrolled by the state to live an opulent lifestyle at the expense of the taxpayer. I wouldnt normally pay much attention to those who put forward this argument but its quite scary how many people buy into the myth and believe rumours and word of mouth as truth even amongst people who i would have thought had more sense.
We have been lucky enough in this country not to have had to deal with a BNP style party but in these tough economic times if the lies about immigrants go unchallenged and are allowed to masqerade as truth I fear the Far right could prosper.

[jebus]

Thankfully I don't think Ireland has much appetite for extremist groups from either end of the political spectrum, sadly Ireland doesn't seem to have an appetite for anything that isn't centre-right

[brianw82]

Was just off the phone with a Polish friend who's dying of the cold, but still went to work because she felt obliged to do so. Not one Irish person I know would have done the same. Sponging off the state, my hole.

[dahamsta]

I know people who'd go to work with a cold. I know more that wouldn't though.

[Magicme]

What some people fail to see is that we are all inherently the same underneath it all and there will always been some lazy feckers, chancers, and down right shysters in every "ethnic" group but the reverse is also true and there are some amazingly wonderful people who selflessly give off their time and efforts in all communities to try and make them better places.

One example I can give is a guy I work with in the centre in Monaghan. If I need access to the residents, I contact him and work through him whether it is organising football for children (he and another guy have completed their kick start 1 so that they can help coach and give something back to the greater community) or Africa day celebrations, Bailey never lets me down. He is so bored sitting out there doing nothing so will go to the ends of the earth to help me and the residents.

I have been to some of their prayer meetings too and its amazing the spirit and faith they have despite the absolute horrors some of them have lived through.

We have it so feckin easy in this country and yet some begrudge helping people who have lived through hell.

[SkStu]

its good to see that this messageboard is in fact occupied for the most part by rational, decent people.

The reason for this thread and Monkfishes comments left me speechless.

[Monkfish]

misery they really have to live with.

Im merely responding to this claim folks.

I fully stand by what I said (unlike a certain Mayor of ours) but dont take my word for it, have a look for yourselves.

[dahamsta]

Several people have responded that they have looked themselves Monkfish, in fact they've been involved at a far closer level than you have and they've refuted what you've said. Are you not going to take that on board?

[Monkfish]

Are you not going to take that on board?

Unfortunetly for the liberal leftie types, people like me will always believe in what they see and know for themselves.

Taking the word of strangers on an internet forum leaves you open to have the wool pulled over your eyes. (Something people in this country have been guilty of for so long regarding a lot of issues)

An undoubtably racist man once asked me ''where were these people (his words not mine) pre 1997, before the country was flush with cash?

I still cant come up with an answer.

[Bluebeard]

Of course, we liberal leftie types all have a lot to gain from filling the country with spongers who will take the dole money from our pockets, and jobs out of our hands and take our women from our kitchens, and send the lot back to their little allegedly war torn country...

There were a hell of a lot of immigrants to Ireland before the country was "flush with cash" (sic). The fact that many of them were white and Western seems to get ignored by these people with unanswerable questions. And I note that we still ignore the large number of east Asians living in Ireland, who coincidentally.

Let's do this right. Let's look at the CSO stats for the period 2004 to 2009 (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/population/current/popmig.pdf). Table 2 on page 3 - Estimated Immigration classified by Sex and Nationality, 2004 - 2009. On only two occasions in that period do the numbers of returning Irish fail to exceed those of non-EU or US immigrants. Coming over here, taking our jobs.

The biggest spikes are from the accessionary states in 2005-8. Well, I have not heard anyone giving out about the Poles and the Lithuanians. Maybe it's those thousands of damned Cypriots and Maltese? I have heard quite a bit about the Romanians, from time to time (typically "Bloody Romanians - the white ones are OK, but the darker ones ye'd want to watch for", possibly alluding to Roma?). They only appear in the figures for the EU 12 only from 2007 - and at that, owing to a number of agreements signed in a panic in 2005, they don't have nearly as simple a route as those lazy Belgians have done for the last few years.

So looking at the figures for 2004, when we were still "flush with cash" (his words, not mine), we see almost 19,000 immigrants from around the non EU / US world. In that same year 26,400 English speakers, (quite possibly more white than not, though figures for this do not exist), came in, not including Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and South Africans. No one was giving out about them. Well maybe about the Americans.

Listening to men on the street we know to be undoubtably racist leaves you open to have the wool pulled over your eyes. Especially if you don't do your research.

Anyway, what need anyone worry. It is now net emigration.

[DaveyCakes]

I know people who'd go to work with a cold. I know more that wouldn't though.

People shouldn't go to work if they have a (bad) cold. I've expressed this view very forcefully a number of times to people who've sneezed and coughed their germs over me in the name of playing the martyr.

[endabob1]

Considering the racism that I and many other Irish emmigrants have had to endure I find it staggering that Ireland is still a country that treats migrants like we do. The "sponging off the state" argument is statistically not true and the "they took our jobs" argument is an even greater myth blown apart by statistics.
I lived in London for 10+ years and for the most part was treated well but I have endured the type of cr@p we now dole out to the eastern europeans in Ireland (and the same happens in the UK) I din't move because I wanted to live in a dingy flat in London or to be closer to the Queen I moved because there was no work in Ireland & there was more chances in London, the same reason Poles & Slovaks have come to Ireland & the same reason they are going home, no work means no reason to stay.
Quit the lazy racism, get some facts like our friend Bluebeard has shown and try to understand why people leave their homes & families to move to another country where they might not speak the language just t otry and eek out a reasonable standard of living.

[dahamsta]

Taking the word of strangers on an internet forum leaves you open to have the wool pulled over your eyes.By your logic, it's perfectly acceptable for us to decide that you made every word of your own observances up, to create an image that satisfies your blinkered view of society. Because that's how you sound, on this topic at least. Your comments just don't have the credibility of others, because they're tainted with maliciousness and hate.

[dahamsta]

People shouldn't go to work if they have a (bad) cold.This is kind of off-subject tbh, I was referring more to (very) minor illnesses. My ellipses match your ellipses. :)

[Magicme]

Monkfish darling we are no strangers and you know that yes I have liberal viewpoints but you should also know that I have 12 years of experience of working with refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants and if in that time I have failed to come across a more than average number of shysters, then is that not good enough for me to form a valid opinion on migration in this country?

When I was 18 years old I was in Holland staying at my aunts and met a group of Kosovar refugees (this was in 1992 before many knew Kosovo existed) and they had been forced to flee their country or die in war. The conditions they were living under was akin to what the J1 visa students do in USA, 20 to a 2 bed apartment, but they would rather suffer that indignity that die at the hands of tyrants. I could give you a list of cases that I worked on with Roma, Nigerians, Congolese etc that would give you sleepless nights for the rest of your days, these are real people who have experienced real horrors that we can only imagine or watch on tv/movies, I know I still have nightmares and as a result of having my eyes opened I wouldnt begrudge even the biggest chancer in the world a opportunity to gain a stable life for themselves and their families.

We dont own Ireland, it belongs to the world and as a citizen of the world I dont feel it is up to me to say where anyone "belongs" or doesnt.*



I realise how sickly sweet that sounds but its how I feel.

[John83]

I'm delighted to see such a reasonable response here.

This Kiely fellow's comments, while lamentable, are not among the more extreme anti-immigrant comments I've heard recently. (In particular, I've found taxi drivers to have taken to the subject with even more gusto than usual.) What's really awful, I think, is Fine Gael's response.

While Enda Kenny criticised him yesterday,

“I disagreed fundamentally with the Mayor of Limerick; it was a most unfortunate statement,” said Mr Kenny, who said he would meet Mr Kiely next week. “We value the input and contribution and work ethic of our EU colleagues and I’m glad he has retracted his comments.”
Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1114/1224258816387.html), November 14
I don't think his response was timely or sufficient. FG spokespeople and individual members were quick to distance themselves from his comments, but I think I read that they defended him from calls for his resignation (can anyone find a citation for that? - maybe I'm confusing this with Willie O'Dea who definitely said so http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Mayor-Sorry-I-got-it.5821065.jp).

Meanwhile, I can't help but look on other partys' comments as anything more than cynically jumping on an opportunity to hurt an election rival.

[Neish]

Unfortunetly for the liberal leftie types, people like me will always believe in what they see and know for themselves.

Taking the word of strangers on an internet forum leaves you open to have the wool pulled over your eyes. (Something people in this country have been guilty of for so long regarding a lot of issues)

An undoubtably racist man once asked me ''where were these people (his words not mine) pre 1997, before the country was flush with cash?

I still cant come up with an answer.


Why would they come here when there was no work for them? You started this thread saying you agree the unemployed foreign nationals should be sent home. Then you ask where were they when there was no work for them. The Celtic tiger would not of existed or at least to the ectend it went to without foreign national labour.

[jebus]

Of course any argument is a moot point because if Ireland wanted to send back non-working non-nationals they would have to violate the EU's freedom of movement act and would have to pull Ireland out of the EU.

Good luck with keeping the country afloat without foreign aid and workers. I would comment that a politician should know this but of course when has incompetence or ignorance ever been a hinderance to political office in Ireland?

As for him resigning, he obviously should. If you're in public office, are charged with the best interests of the people of Limerick and haven't realised that a) Limerick is quite multi-cultural these days and b) your comments might make some of them feel at best uncomfortable and unwelcome then you've failed your office and your people in my opinion and should resign.

Obviously that won't happen, and obviously it's ridiculous of Fianna Fail to try and sit on the high ground after the O'Donoghue nonsense but, well we live in Ireland I guess, the obvious is normally seen as the last resort

[dahamsta]

(It's "moot point". Sorry, it's one of those ones that bugs me, like "rediculous".)

[jebus]

I say we kick the grammar nazis out of the country first :p

[dahamsta]

They're the worst. Rediculous.

[Monkfish]

You started this thread saying you agree the unemployed foreign nationals should be sent home. .

I did? and where have I said iv a problem with people coming here to work? :confused:

No problem with anyone looking to earn an honest wage and paying their way.

Lot of people question why these people from war torn countrys only started coming here in mass numbers post '97. Not like war is a new thing or anything.
Im one of them and am looking for the view of the book learned members on this site.

[jebus]

Because there weren't many jobs here pre-Celtic Tiger, so there would have been no point in them coming looking for work would there?

They started arriving as soon as the economy started rising, happens in every country