View Full Version : DCFC fans do you consider yourselves hard done by?
dcfcsteve
08/11/2009, 4:56 PM
I don't feel hard done by as a City fan. That's assuming the charge made against the club is true. Given I'm not aware of the Board coming out to say that it isn't true - instead making a smokescreen about process, treatment and 'shame on the FAI' - I'm lead to suspect that it is indeed.
Everyone on foot.ie has been banging on for ages now about the need for the rules to be implemented and the fudging stopped. No-one wants their club to be the one caught standing when the music stops, but it had to be someone at some point. Disappointing that it's us, but we have no-one else to blame, and the small number of City fans clinging to conspiracy theories just need to grow the fcuk up.
As for the City fans gurning that it didn't happen to Shelbourne - the point is that the rules were different then. And again -if the fudging is ever to stop, then someone has to be the first victim. Tough sh!t that it's us.
Finally - lots of other clubs may have secondary contracts as well. But has concrete proof of it fallen into the FAI's hands ? I suspect not. Hence why the FAI are coming down hard on the first club that they apparently have evidence of it at. I suspect there'll be some very nervous off-the-record conversations happening between Boards and players at certain clubs over the next week, as no-one else wants to get caught out. Ironically - those players elsewhere on secondary contracst may actually benefit financially out of it whilst their contracts remains -as which club wants to risk them blowing the whistle ?
One word explains it - obsession.
It's like claiming you don't care about your ex wife any more, than spending all your time bitching about her and finding our from everyone what she's been doing.
City fans have forgotten all about the IL and moved on. It seems those in the IL are still in mourning, whetehr they realise it or not. And we all know they'd have us back in a heartbeat.
Quite simply obsessed.
It's not obsession.
A lot of people just got fed up with the continual "self-pity" that always seemed to flow from the Brandywell.
I doubt anyone actively WANTS you back, the question is whether we would be happy if you did come back. Personally I wouldn't care, though I wouldn't actively pursue you to come back what with the dodgy contracts, poor stadium and pathetic business behaviour.
EalingGreen
08/11/2009, 5:38 PM
It's not obsession.
A lot of people just got fed up with the continual "self-pity" that always seemed to flow from the Brandywell.
I doubt anyone actively WANTS you back, the question is whether we would be happy if you did come back. Personally I wouldn't care, though I wouldn't actively pursue you to come back what with the dodgy contracts, poor stadium and pathetic business behaviour.
Well said.
There was hardly any mention of DCFC, never mind "obsessing", by IL fans up until a few weeks ago.
But when a club which was a member of the IL for nearly 50 years, is still technically a member of the IFA and which is located in NI's second city, suddenly finds its very existence as a LOI club under threat, fans of IL clubs are bound to be interested.
I am still sympathetic to fans who must be in shock at what's happening to their club, but just as their Board were unable to hold back economic reality, they (fans) are liable to have to face up to new realities of their own, including the possibility (no more than that) of being forced to re-enter the IL.
Or is Liam Coyle just another "obsessive"? :rolleyes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8325118.stm
gael353
08/11/2009, 5:58 PM
can i ask, everyone is of the opinion that Derry CIty will apply to play in the first diviision next season. But if your not in the league, which tech Derry arnt atm, dont they have to apply to join the A league?
can i ask, everyone is of the opinion that Derry CIty will apply to play in the first diviision next season. But if your not in the league, which tech Derry arnt atm, dont they have to apply to join the A league?
There seems to be rumours that the A league will be discontinued. Which I think would be a retrogade step.
Well said.
There was hardly any mention of DCFC, never mind "obsessing", by IL fans up until a few weeks ago.
But when a club which was a member of the IL for nearly 50 years, is still technically a member of the IFA and which is located in NI's second city, suddenly finds its very existence as a LOI club under threat, fans of IL clubs are bound to be interested.
I am still sympathetic to fans who must be in shock at what's happening to their club, but just as their Board were unable to hold back economic reality, they (fans) are liable to have to face up to new realities of their own, including the possibility (no more than that) of being forced to re-enter the IL.
Or is Liam Coyle just another "obsessive"? :rolleyes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8325118.stm
I do fee sorry for the Derry fans to see their club being messed about like this.
But the blame lies fairly at the feet of McDaid and his co-horts, and for them I feel no pity at all.
When you consider what other clubs have got away with (including us and cork last season -and especially cork this season, dundalk this season also - and thats not even mentioning bohs), theres no doubt the brits have been hard done by.
Fair enough they broke the rules - but how many other clubs have broken the rules this season?
I'd be fairly p***** off if i was a derry fan this weekend, if cork get a premier division license for next season.
However, it this is the start of the FAI finally hitting clubs hard that break the rules (and cork and bohs are next), I welcome it.
Do I feel sorry for derry though? not at all - the way their club (with the backing of their fans) tried to kill our club and knock us when we were down a few years ago was an absolue disgrace - good to see them take some of their own medicine finally after that sickening attack on our club
pineapple stu
08/11/2009, 6:43 PM
How can you support the FAI hitting clubs who break the rules hard, and yet bear a grudge when Derry - through the League of Ireland (composed at the time by members of all the league clubs) - hit Drogheda hard, a club who broke the rules? (Trading company not filing annual returns or accounts to try avoid paying off the company's debts). There appears to be a bit of inconsistency there.
How can you support the FAI hitting clubs who break the rules hard, and yet bear a grudge when Derry - through the League of Ireland (composed at the time by members of all the league clubs) - hit Drogheda hard, a club who broke the rules? (Trading company not filing annual returns or accounts to try avoid paying off the company's debts). There appears to be a bit of inconsistency there.
Not at all Stu - thats up to the FAI to hit the clubs - - totally different matter for a club thinking theyve a chance of going down to go after another club in the relegation zone to help keep themselves up - for one club trying to kill off another club is a totally different matter!! (and if ye think they did it for the leagues sake, rather than their own selfish reasons, im very surprised at ye!!)
I'd be personally be disgusted if drogheda ever actively went after a club like derry did with us!
(though i do see why you might think there was inconsisteny with my post - but i see it differently to ye!)
pineapple stu
08/11/2009, 6:52 PM
In fairness, that was the way the league was arranged then; the clubs ran it, so the clubs had to keep an eye on each other. (It's obviously, shall we say, unfortunate if a one club squealed on a relegation co-rival). In a way though, it's far better than the scheme we have now, where no-one's keeping an eye on the clubs (cos the FAI don't care) and which has led to the environment where clubs can get away with anything.
Dixie Dean
08/11/2009, 8:48 PM
I think Derry have been very hard done by here. Cork despite all their problems have had no penalty yet. they should have been docked points long ago. Losing Derry would be devastating to the league, as they would be replaced by a team with no history or support and probably from Dublin.
The FAI have done fcuk all for the league since they took over. Now is the time for the top clubs in Ireland to setup on their own and form a new league. Then an invitation can be sent to IL clubs if they are interested. The LOI and FAI marriage is a shambles.
I think Derry have been very hard done by here. Cork despite all their problems have had no penalty yet. they should have been docked points long ago. Losing Derry would be devastating to the league, as they would be replaced by a team with no history or support and probably from Dublin.
The FAI have done fcuk all for the league since they took over. Now is the time for the top clubs in Ireland to setup on their own and form a new league. Then an invitation can be sent to IL clubs if they are interested. The LOI and FAI marriage is a shambles.
The allegation is that they cheated on a large, systematic basis over an extended period, don't see how they were hard done by.
Cork haven't broken any rules yet- how can they be deducted points?
Losing Derry is a blow, but it's their own fault and incidentally none of the possible replacement in the A league are from Dublin.
And the clubs used to run the league themselves and made an unholy balls of it. Bad and all as things are, it's better than it used to be.
Dixie Dean
08/11/2009, 9:15 PM
Isnt not paying your players breaking the rules?
Also going into administration should equal a points deduction, even if its not in the rulebook.
As regards Dublin clubs i admit i dont follow the A league but was thinking of sporting fingal, absolute no additon to the league in my book. Have no support and never will.
John83
08/11/2009, 9:16 PM
I think Derry have been very hard done by here. Cork despite all their problems have had no penalty yet. they should have been docked points long ago. Losing Derry would be devastating to the league, as they would be replaced by a team with no history or support and probably from Dublin.
The FAI have done fcuk all for the league since they took over. Now is the time for the top clubs in Ireland to setup on their own and form a new league. Then an invitation can be sent to IL clubs if they are interested. The LOI and FAI marriage is a shambles.
http://www.philsized.com/lol/WHARRGARBL.jpg
CRFC&SRFC
08/11/2009, 10:51 PM
Losing Derry will be a huge loss for the league. Have always regarded them as one of the best supporters in league,both in numbers and their knowledge of the game. Down through the years they travelled in big numbers to the Showgrounds adding greatly to athmosphere & occasion, and i cant recall them ever causing any trouble.
yes they need to be punished for "systematically breaking the rules" (there have been others too who have bent/broke the rules tho)
I can see where the fai are comming from trying to clean up league but whether this step will improve the league in the short or long term, i have my doubts.
Anyway wish Derry the very best in rejuvinating their club in whatever way they can. Hierarchy at club have alot to answer for and supporters deserve better than the mess they are in now
MariborKev
08/11/2009, 10:54 PM
There was hardly any mention of DCFC, never mind "obsessing", by IL fans up until a few weeks ago.
Seriously:rolleyes:
Is that why there is a more than a few threads on the Irish League forums every few months on us?
blackholesun
08/11/2009, 11:47 PM
The FAI have done fcuk all for the league since they took over. Now is the time for the top clubs in Ireland to setup on their own and form a new league. Then an invitation can be sent to IL clubs if they are interested. The LOI and FAI marriage is a shambles.
Any fan of any club blaming the FAI for their own clubs failings is the lazy head in the sand way out.
Some of the things the FAI have done for the league since the merger.
Increased prize money. Hardballed RTE into running MNS. Part-funded club promo officers. Setup Futsal league. Finally forcing the clubs to get their acts together.
Fair play to all the Derry fans on here who have taken this on chin.
McDaid and the board should be fcuked out and let the club start over in A league.
bhs
LeixlipRed
08/11/2009, 11:51 PM
Any fan of any club blaming the FAI for their own clubs failings is the lazy head in the sand way out.
Some of the things the FAI have done for the league since the merger.
Increased prize money. Hardballed RTE into running MNS. Part-funded club promo officers. Setup Futsal league. Finally forcing the clubs to get their acts together.
You could be accused of the exact same head in the sand attitude if you actually think the FAI are doing a good job :o Yes, they've done those things you mentioned except the bit in bold. Have you been paying attention at all??
dcfcsteve
08/11/2009, 11:55 PM
You could be accused of the exact same head in the sand attitude if you actually think the FAI are doing a good job :o Yes, they've done those things you mentioned except the bit in bold. Have you been paying attention at all??
The point is, under the old system there was nothing to stop the clubs doing whatever they liked. Now there are penalties, rules, wage caps etc.
It's not a perfect system , but it is a degree of controls that weren't there previously.
There is only so much the FAI can do to protect clubs from self-destructing.
A N Mouse
09/11/2009, 12:54 AM
You could be accused of the exact same head in the sand attitude if you actually think the FAI are doing a good job :o Yes, they've done those things you mentioned except the bit in bold. Have you been paying attention at all??
I'm fed up sticking up for the feckers, but obviously you feel $hels were a model of prudencey before they were forced to get their act together by... oh... nevermind
Rome wasn't built in a day, and all that.
If Derry broke the rules then they are wrong and should face the consequences, the problem is that listening to Frank Gavin and then to Derry at their meeting today there is complete difference of opinion as to whether there was any wrong doing. For the FAI to have made such a decision and the magnitude of the punishment would it not be fair to expect clear evidence of wrong doing otherwise this could happen to other clubs ?
Also like to add that this should not detract from the issue which preceded this and that is the overall financial management of the club.
OneRedArmy
09/11/2009, 4:07 PM
Frank Gavin Is he married to Irene?
marinobohs
09/11/2009, 4:16 PM
I think Derry have been very hard done by here. Cork despite all their problems have had no penalty yet. they should have been docked points long ago. Losing Derry would be devastating to the league, as they would be replaced by a team with no history or support and probably from Dublin.
The FAI have done fcuk all for the league since they took over. Now is the time for the top clubs in Ireland to setup on their own and form a new league. Then an invitation can be sent to IL clubs if they are interested. The LOI and FAI marriage is a shambles.
First and foremost let me say that the decision is a bad day for Derry City FC, thier fans AND the League of Ireland.
All season people here have been condeming the FAI for not implementing the rules and for not taking firm action against clubs even on this thread some fans are still calling for sanctions (justified or not) against some clubs. which is it to be guys ? do we want to FAI to take action -if so, then someone had to go- or do we want another fudge and another season of the same crap next year ?.
Best of luck to Derry, I really hope they enter Div 1 and come back up in the near future.
Isnt not paying your players breaking the rules?
Also going into administration should equal a points deduction, even if its not in the rulebook.
1) Nope, once theyre paid or have an agreement before the licensing deadline.
2) we didnt go into administration this season.
Celdrog
09/11/2009, 4:29 PM
Also going into administration should equal a points deduction, even if its not in the rulebook.Eh - it does. Both Cork and Drogs were docked 10 points last season for going into administration (and its in the rulebook)
L37Ultra
10/11/2009, 12:54 PM
Does anyone think the FAI did this as they were worried there would be three Galway teams in the First Division next year?
Does anyone think the FAI did this as they were worried there would be three Galway teams in the First Division next year?
Eh? .
It seems a little harsh considering some of the other dodgy stuff that's been going on with regard to the 65% rule, like Bohs very well paid bar staff, but I'm guessing we're being made an example of.
Does this not constitute a double contract? Are Bohs being investigated?
OneRedArmy
10/11/2009, 1:22 PM
Does this not constitute a double contract? Are Bohs being investigated?No it constitutes an extra job.
Lets get back to Derry.
Our chairman and our solicitor refused to deny double contracts weren't in place. In fact, its been reported that they said they "didn't know" if they were or weren't in place.
Read that again. Our Chairman said he doesn't know what contracts are in place with our playing staff, and our solicitor, specifically engaged to defend an FAI charge that we had dual contracts, doesn't know either.
You couldn't make it up.
The FAI aren't a court of law, they don't need to operate to that level of proof. The onus on us is to prove we didn't break the rules. And we appear not to be even trying.
Cop on.
osarusan
10/11/2009, 1:39 PM
Our chairman and our solicitor refused to deny double contracts weren't in place. In fact, its been reported that they said they "didn't know" if they were or weren't in place.
Read that again. Our Chairman said he doesn't know what contracts are in place with our playing staff, and our solicitor, specifically engaged to defend an FAI charge that we had dual contracts, doesn't know either.
This is the killer here. When the chairman says he doesn't know, and the solicitor, they immediately lose any remaining credibility.
A question I've been wondering - is the term "double-contract" (or "dual-contract") accurate? Were there actually 2 contracts, or just one with under-the-table payments? Either way, the intention would have been to mislead the FAI, but I'm just wondering.
No it constitutes an extra job.
I thought this was what Derry were doing. If they were stupid enough not to try to hide the extra payments as remuneration for a second job then they deserve whatever they get :(
A N Mouse
10/11/2009, 2:56 PM
I thought this was what Derry were doing. If they were stupid enough not to try to hide the extra payments as remuneration for a second job then they deserve whatever they get :(
How could someone playing for fingal have a second role at dcfc?
Come to think about it, if he was on loan at fingal, how much of his wages were dcfc still paying?
OneRedArmy
10/11/2009, 2:58 PM
Come to think about it, if he was on loan at fingal, how much of his wages were dcfc still paying?
None..... isn't that why we're all here? ;):D
Come to think about it, if he was on loan at fingal, how much of his wages were dcfc still paying?
All of them. A loaned player is paid by the club he 'belongs to' and the club he's on loan at pays loan fees directly to the them.
So Derry would have been paying Quigley's wages, and Fingal paying Derry some set amount- perhaps all of his contract, perhaps less.
OneRedArmy
10/11/2009, 3:10 PM
All of them. A loaned player is paid by the club he 'belongs to' and the club he's on loan at pays loan fees directly to the them.
So Derry would have been paying Quigley's wages, and Fingal paying Derry some set amount- perhaps all of his contract, perhaps less.Ding!
Another potential creditor.
If only Quigley had signed the deal that was offered at the start of the season by Dundalk.:(
dublinred
10/11/2009, 8:38 PM
Feel bad for the Derry fans there isn't a nicer bunch of lads in the league always made welcome up there , one positive to come from the situation is that the FAI are giving ye a helping hand to get rid of the bunch of lying muppets running the club.
dortie
10/11/2009, 9:02 PM
one positive to come from the situation is that the FAI are giving ye a helping hand to get rid of the bunch of lying muppets running the club.
The FAI have literally put us out of Senior football, there is NO positives !
Malpractice or not the fans of this club will suffer as a result.
dortie
10/11/2009, 9:03 PM
If only Quigley had signed the deal that was offered at the start of the season by Dundalk.:(
Couldnt agree more !
dublinred
10/11/2009, 10:53 PM
The FAI have literally put us out of Senior football, there is NO positives !
Malpractice or not the fans of this club will suffer as a result.
The IFA kicked you out for 16 years and you came back stronger all you need to do is get rid of the muppets as you have a decent ground by LOI standards and a great fanbase , a couple of years in the wilderness won't do any harm if some decent people can get control of the club.
If only Quigley had signed the deal that was offered at the start of the season by Dundalk
He still wouldn't have been paid the full contract amount agreed....
pól-dcfc
11/11/2009, 3:22 AM
Couldnt agree more !
This post has convinced me that you are a total idiot. You would have preferred that we continued to break rules?
Derry City have done nothing but cheat for the past two seasons. It's not Darren's fault.
Hopefully Derry can get on with the real work of trying to save the club financially and work with FAI to keep senior soccer alive in the town.
How could someone playing for fingal have a second role at dcfc?
Come to think about it, if he was on loan at fingal, how much of his wages were dcfc still paying?
Wasn't specifically thinking about Quigley, though I see your point on that issue.
weecountyman
13/11/2009, 10:35 AM
Is there a chance that a reformed club are offered a licence for the 1st Division, and that this club is run by the community with a 2-3 full-time admin staff? If 1,000 people pay £2 a week, that's £2,000 to pay players and staff with, the rest can be made up with gates, matchday take and sponsors. Get rid of large shareholders, let everyone be equal, paying £2 and no more per week. Isn't this the new Drogheda model? This is the way operated by a couple of clubs on the continent and while they're not int he top flight they are solvent, competitive and develop young players. Derry is too important a football base to not have in the LOI.
Krstic
13/11/2009, 6:32 PM
Hard done by?
Fcuk, we just fell into the Foyle and came out with smoked Salmon and caviar for tea.
If things pan out as Delaney hopes, we've been absolutely steeped in it.
dcfcsteve
13/11/2009, 8:50 PM
The IFA kicked you out for 16 years and
*Cough* - 12 years and a little under 11 months.
dcfcsteve
13/11/2009, 8:52 PM
The FAI have literally put us out of Senior football, there is NO positives !
Malpractice or not the fans of this club will suffer as a result.
I thoguht you'd still be holding out for some facts Dortie... ;)
It's looking very likely that we'll be in the First Division next year, so we're not out of football.
And if we were it wouldn't be the FAI who put us, but that shower of muppets who've been running our club (into the ground). Stop blaming the FAI for our wrong doings.
-lamb-
14/11/2009, 1:48 PM
The IFA kicked you out for 16 years
the ifa did not kick derry city out of the irish league.
the ifa told them to play their games away from the brandywell due to the inability for safety to be provided there. derry city did play elsewhere for a while then decided it wasn't viable to carry on and (correct me if i am wrong) decided to withdraw themselves voluntarily from the league. after a time they entered a junior league for a while and requested to re-enter the senior league. the other clubs voted on their re-entry and derry city lost by a single vote and one abstention. if you look around you can find out which way each club voted.
this myth that the ifa kicked derry city out of the irish league is just that, a myth.
blame the targetting of other clubs for violence when visiting, causing derry city's original problem of not being able to host teams safely at the brandywell,
blame the ifa (or certain individuals in the ifa might be more appropriate) for not making it easy (understatement) for derry city (even from a few years before and their european tie)
blame derry city for not being prepared to play away from the brandywell any longer (only 10 games i believe),
blame the clubs who decided to vote against them coming back,
blame the ifa for not doing more to persuade the clubs to vote them back in,
there are probably a hundred more "blames", but its hard to blame the ifa for ever kicking derry city out of the irish league when the facts show they didn't actually do that.
the ifa did not kick derry city out of the irish league.
the ifa told them to play their games away from the brandywell due to the inability for safety to be provided there. derry city did play elsewhere for a while then decided it wasn't viable to carry on and (correct me if i am wrong) decided to withdraw themselves voluntarily from the league. after a :ptime they entered a junior league for a while and requested to re-enter the senior league. the other clubs voted on their re-entry and derry city lost by a single vote and one abstention. if you look around you can find out which way each club voted.
this myth that the ifa kicked derry city out of the irish league is just that, a myth.
blame the targetting of other clubs for violence when visiting, causing derry city's original problem of not being able to host teams safely at the brandywell,
blame the ifa (or certain individuals in the ifa might be more appropriate) for not making it easy (understatement) for derry city (even from a few years before and their european tie)
blame derry city for not being prepared to play away from the brandywell any longer (only 10 games i believe),
blame the clubs who decided to vote against them coming back,
blame the ifa for not doing more to persuade the clubs to vote them back in,
there are probably a hundred more "blames", but its hard to blame the ifa for ever kicking derry city out of the irish league when the facts show they didn't actually do that.
You are wrong.
1) It wasn't the IFA that stopped them playing there, it was the league which was not run by the IFA at the time.
2) The IFA and the security forces both agreed it was safe for them to return to the Brandy, again the clubs and the league ignored the professionals advice and refused.
They may not have kicked them out but they didnt leave them with much of a choice.
A comparable situation in a workplace would be called constructive dismissal.
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