Getting on the Block Booking

[Bluetonic]

I cant speak for EastTerracer but I fully see your points (and those of the others) but I still maintain that you cant simply exclude Home Games completely.

This suits you personally but in my opinion it is not a fair reflection of a supporters support for the team which should include home and away games.

I think the 1pt for Home games and 2pts for away games suggested would be a simple mechanism that at least tries to reflect both angles.
If the home block booking is a closed shop which it is, why should those who can't get tickets but want them fall behind in the points system? As I said already block bookers take tickets and shift the out of fear of losing the allocation. It's a case of the rich getting richer whilst the poor remain poor.

On the other hand away tickets are available for the majority of games so are a better indication of loyalty.

Keep the the home and away systems separate.

[Junior]

If the home block booking is a closed shop which it is, why should those who can't get tickets but want them fall behind in the points system? As I said already block bookers take tickets and shift the out of fear of losing the allocation. It's a case of the rich getting richer whilst the poor remain poor.

On the other hand away tickets are available for the majority of games so are a better indication of loyalty.

Keep the the home and away systems separate.

You need to get rid of this notion that all BB'ers are luck b'stards who get loads of tickets and just go to the best games and offload the crappy fixtures. Thats simply not the case, it happens sure but I would say its no where near as rife as you make out. If I attend 5/6 homes games and 1 away in a campaign, I dont think that should put me bottom of the pile (obv excluding those who havent travelled at all).

I think we will need to agree to differ or risk going round in circles.

At the end of the day, none of this would make me decide to travel/not travel anyway. I make that decision first and look how Ill source my tickets next.;)

[Bluetonic]

You need to get rid of this notion that all BB'ers are luck b'stards who get loads of tickets and just go to the best games and offload the crappy fixtures.
I don't have that notion at all. I can only speak from my own experiences One individual has eight tickets in a block booking, three go to every game, the other five are made of whoever wants to go in the days before the games. Sometimes there is a ticket left over with the cost being absorbed by those who go. It's not sold on outside the group - can't control what happens to it.



At the end of the day, none of this would make me decide to travel/not travel anyway. I make that decision first and look how Ill source my tickets next.;)
Same here, where there is a will there is a way, but that shouldn't have to be the case for regulars.

[Polster]

[QUOTE=Bluetonic;1264666]I don't have that notion at all. I can only speak from my own experiences One individual has eight tickets in a block booking, three go to every game, the other five are made of whoever wants to go in the days before the games. Sometimes there is a ticket left over with the cost being absorbed by those who go. It's not sold on outside the group - can't control what happens to it.
QUOTE]

No matter what system you have in place you will always have exceptions which I firmly believe are in the minority. The vast majority of BB'rs are loyal long standing fans.

[eaststand85]

Nobody's denying that but it's irrelevant to this discussion. Still not one blockbooker has been able to say why they should control large allocations of tickets rather than the FAI.

[NeilMcD]

The only reason is that its easier for the FAI that way.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Nobody's denying that but it's irrelevant to this discussion. Still not one blockbooker has been able to say why they should control large allocations of tickets rather than the FAI.

I'm on the waiting list and don't see any problem with the way the block book works. The people who have been going for 20 years deserve to be getting tickets ahead of me as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways I don't see what difference it makes whether one person controls 4 tickets for example or is asked to supply 4 names for the 4 tickets. The 4 tickets are going to be sent out too the same guys who go to every game and they'll all meet up as they always do.

If as is being claimed the block book scheme has loads of touts on it - which I don't believe for an instance - surely whoever controls them is just going to get 3 other names together.

Someone using the GAA as an example of an organization who knows how to look after ticketing is a complete joke. I see way more touts on the way into an All Ireland then they would do for a soccer or rugby match. 82,000 capacity stadium and the county board of a senior team in the final get something like 12,000 tickets for the final

[Bluetonic]

I'm on the waiting list and don't see any problem with the way the block book works. The people who have been going for 20 years deserve to be getting tickets ahead of me as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways I don't see what difference it makes whether one person controls 4 tickets for example or is asked to supply 4 names for the 4 tickets. The 4 tickets are going to be sent out too the same guys who go to every game and they'll all meet up as they always do.

If as is being claimed the block book scheme has loads of touts on it - which I don't believe for an instance - surely whoever controls them is just going to get 3 other names together.

I'm blue in the face saying this but you issue fan cards and get rid of the outdated system of issuing a physical ticket for each game. It greatly reduces transfer of tickets between big groups, touting (to the small degree that exists), etc..,



Someone using the GAA as an example of an organization who knows how to look after ticketing is a complete joke. I see way more touts on the way into an All Ireland then they would do for a soccer or rugby match. 82,000 capacity stadium and the county board of a senior team in the final get something like 12,000 tickets for the final
The comparison is that the GAA are embracing the technology that is available. Last season they trialled the fan card, next season it will be increased. The FAI aren't bothered being innovative, very simple example is in November 2007 they carried out a block booker and waiting list fan survey and got email addresses of the same, yet even though the majority of people pay their invoice online they still contact people by post which is a waste of time and money.

Do you think it's good enough for the FAI not to be innovative or are you happy with an association which made a loss of €16m odd in the last financial year?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I'm blue in the face saying this but you issue fan cards and get rid of the outdated system of issuing a physical ticket for each game. It greatly reduces transfer of tickets between big groups, touting (to the small degree that exists), etc..,


The comparison is that the GAA are embracing the technology that is available. Last season they trialled the fan card, next season it will be increased. The FAI aren't bothered being innovative, very simple example is in November 2007 they carried out a block booker and waiting list fan survey and got email addresses of the same, yet even though the majority of people pay their invoice online they still contact people by post which is a waste of time and money.

Do you think it's good enough for the FAI not to be innovative or are you happy with an association which made a loss of €16m odd in the last financial year?

Yes it would stop the transfer to touts but to me this is very, very minimal from the BB scheme.

How exactly is the card going to stop transfers of tickets between big groups? If you know someone who you're giving a spare ticket you have it's not going to bother you whether you give them a physical ticket or a card as you know them so you'll get the card back.

I know people with season tickets cross channel and they're constantly giving out their swipe cards to friends, friends of friends etc

The FAI already have a fan scheme called the block book scheme. The FAI can learn lots from the GAA but how to do ticket allocations is certainly not one of those

[Bluetonic]

How exactly is the card going to stop transfers of tickets between big groups? If you know someone who you're giving a spare ticket you have it's not going to bother you whether you give them a physical ticket or a card as you know them so you'll get the card back.

At this stage its probably best to wait and see how many tickets change hands and are available at face value when we get back to Lansdowne, that'll be the real answer. We should be able to get a good idea of this from here and YBIG.

Do you agree that the issuing of physical tickets to the same people every couple of games is unnecessary in this day and age, the posting of invoices etc..., could be handled better by the FAI?

This isn't just talk of implementing a system for the sake of it, it's something which would set the FAI up for the future. The move to a 'new' stadium was a great opportunity to do this in my opinion. Sooner or later they will have to move away from the current archaic system. Invoices can be issued, payments received, tickets loaded onto fan card etc.., all in the blink of an eye these days keeping human interaction to a minimum and freeing up people to handle exceptions.

Just say such a system was in place for the home games and the away games had a system implemented such as we have discussed on here today well then its not too wild to assume the time spent processing requests and issuing tickets would be kept to a minimum, a day or two at most. The system would be future proof.

[Polster]

Nobody's denying that but it's irrelevant to this discussion. Still not one blockbooker has been able to say why they should control large allocations of tickets rather than the FAI.

You say bb'rs 'control' large allocations of tickets, and I suppose we do, but for most of us it is an inconvience. Most of us I'm sure pay up front and then end up pulling the money back in. I personally would have no problem with the FAI going one ticket per block booker, and I'll supply the details of the others in the group, and then the FAI can send out more invoices, deal with more emails and phone calls, more money transactions etc etc

I don't see how this benefits anyone on the WL, certainly not the FAI, and will only make life easier for the main block booker who now only has to look after their own ticket.

[Bluetonic]

You say bb'rs 'control' large allocations of tickets, and I suppose we do, but for most of us it is an inconvience. Most of us I'm sure pay up front and then end up pulling the money back in. I personally would have no problem with the FAI going one ticket per block booker, and I'll supply the details of the others in the group, and then the FAI can send out more invoices, deal with more emails and phone calls, more money transactions etc etc

I don't see how this benefits anyone on the WL, certainly not the FAI, and will only make life easier for the main block booker who now only has to look after their own ticket.
Of course if they chose to implement an fan card system like I am blue in the face saying all their processes will be automatic and require minimum human interference.

[eaststand85]

You say bb'rs 'control' large allocations of tickets, and I suppose we do, but for most of us it is an inconvience. Most of us I'm sure pay up front and then end up pulling the money back in. I personally would have no problem with the FAI going one ticket per block booker, and I'll supply the details of the others in the group, and then the FAI can send out more invoices, deal with more emails and phone calls, more money transactions etc etc

I don't see how this benefits anyone on the WL, certainly not the FAI, and will only make life easier for the main block booker who now only has to look after their own ticket.

It benefits everyone as follows imo:


The main block booker who as you say now only has to look after their own ticket or pair of tickets.
The FAI by giving them a complete database of (active) supporters for sales and marketing purposes which can be used as a tool for generating valuable revenue for Irish football from things like Vantage Club seats and official FAI merchandise, and will also allow them better track who's taking tickets for each match and help ensure they're distributed fairly when demand is particularly high (as in the upcoming play offs for example). Also, if the FAI could accept more people onto the BB and WL then this would surely increase the amount of people they can reach and promote football to. As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum there's a danger of not enough young people making it to matches, this might help address that in some small way by ultimately ensuring more attendance at games as the same young people would find it easier to progress thru the WL
Existing waiting listers by ensuring any tickets allocated to the BB scheme are distributed fairly and making it more difficult for touts. That's all anyone wants and I personally believe that if this is done then a higher churn on the BB scheme will result and those WL'ers who have patiently waited will be rewarded. Actually, one point which no one has raised is that there must also surely be a number of WL'ers getting tickets from BB'ers at present. If a BB'er gave the name of a WL'er when their allocation was divided up as suggested this would also help reduce the size of the WL which is what we all want (I think/hope).

[Junior]

Another point for consideration is the ROISSC's in Ireland and the UK. Im not entirely sure how they all work but Im pretty certain that all BB details are maintained by the Suporters Clubs (which will be in the 100's) and not the FAI.

Obviously this could move to the FAI if thats what the system required but in doing this would it then start to remove the need for groups and associations such as the ROISSC? One of its key activities is the organisation of members tickets - do we want to get rid of fan groups? I dont think we do.

Its a tangent I know but relevant I think.

[eaststand85]

Another point for consideration is the ROISSC's in Ireland and the UK. Im not entirely sure how they all work but Im pretty certain that all BB details are maintained by the Suporters Clubs (which will be in the 100's) and not the FAI.

Obviously this could move to the FAI if thats what the system required but in doing this would it then start to remove the need for groups and associations such as the ROISSC? One of its key activities is the organisation of members tickets - do we want to get rid of fan groups? I dont think we do.

Its a tangent I know but relevant I think.

Mentioned earlier in the discussion that FAI member clubs allocations could be managed separately and I see no reason why supporters clubs abroad couldn't be treated in the same way.

[Bluetonic]

Just another not here, back in Lansdowne waiting listers would be offered ticket to friendlies as the capacity of Lansdowne would be greatly increased, this won't be the case in the new Lansdowne as capacity is static. Only those sponsors tickets which aren't required for friendlies will move to the waiting list - I doubt this will be many.

On another note I hope to God the FAI are going to catagorise the tickets. I know they are talking about keeping the prices the same as Croke Park but there is no way a ticket in the lower at the half way line, should be the same as a lower at the corner flag, in the same way a ticket in the upper at the half way line at the front should be more than a lower at the corner flag, or upper corner flag. Please God someone tell me there is a range of ticket prices (similar to how they've catarogised the Vantage Club) around the ground and not just A & B.

There would of course be work to accommodate the block booking around this but in my opinion it has to be done.

[dynamo kerry]

not sure what you mean DK as there is only a guarantee of tickets if you had the minimun requiremnt of points and there were an excess number of tickets.

eg 8500 tickets availablle

8000 people on the 3 points or more -
12000 people on 2 points or more -

8000 people get 8000 tickets (and get a point)
4000 people go into a ballot for 500 tickets and the lucky 500 get a point)

No I meant that your system is for dictating who gets away tickets using a points tallied system.

For a while there I thought you were going to use away match attendance for home game tickets. spaced out a bit. appreciate the explanation.

[gspain]

Just another not here, back in Lansdowne waiting listers would be offered ticket to friendlies as the capacity of Lansdowne would be greatly increased, this won't be the case in the new Lansdowne as capacity is static. Only those sponsors tickets which aren't required for friendlies will move to the waiting list - I doubt this will be many.

On another note I hope to God the FAI are going to catagorise the tickets. I know they are talking about keeping the prices the same as Croke Park but there is no way a ticket in the lower at the half way line, should be the same as a lower at the corner flag, in the same way a ticket in the upper at the half way line at the front should be more than a lower at the corner flag, or upper corner flag. Please God someone tell me there is a range of ticket prices (similar to how they've catarogised the Vantage Club) around the ground and not just A & B.

There would of course be work to accommodate the block booking around this but in my opinion it has to be done.

Although the FAI state that all general public seats are sold for the Aviva (they ar epaying €44 million so they deserve the publicity) even the most optimistic salesperson wouldn't claim they'll sellout the Vantage Club. In most cases the away allocation will also be available. I expect anyone on the WL will be offered tickets for games at the Aviva going forward.

I hope they don't categorise any further. They have guaranteed to keep prices the same up to 2012. Categorising always pushes prices up not down. Maybe at the next price increase it might be a good idea.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

At this stage its probably best to wait and see how many tickets change hands and are available at face value when we get back to Lansdowne, that'll be the real answer. We should be able to get a good idea of this from here and YBIG.

Do you agree that the issuing of physical tickets to the same people every couple of games is unnecessary in this day and age, the posting of invoices etc..., could be handled better by the FAI?

This isn't just talk of implementing a system for the sake of it, it's something which would set the FAI up for the future. The move to a 'new' stadium was a great opportunity to do this in my opinion. Sooner or later they will have to move away from the current archaic system. Invoices can be issued, payments received, tickets loaded onto fan card etc.., all in the blink of an eye these days keeping human interaction to a minimum and freeing up people to handle exceptions.

Just say such a system was in place for the home games and the away games had a system implemented such as we have discussed on here today well then its not too wild to assume the time spent processing requests and issuing tickets would be kept to a minimum, a day or two at most. The system would be future proof.

Yeah I do agree that the card system is the way they should go alright - just won't get people onto the Block Booking list any quicker I don't think

[elroy]

Just another not here, back in Lansdowne waiting listers would be offered ticket to friendlies as the capacity of Lansdowne would be greatly increased, this won't be the case in the new Lansdowne as capacity is static. Only those sponsors tickets which aren't required for friendlies will move to the waiting list - I doubt this will be many.

.

Im a WLer. I dont ever recall a friendly in the last 10/15 years in LR where it was a struggle to get tickets. The only one that I can think of is the Brazil scoreless draw a few years back.

The issue of availabilty of Aviva tickets was discussed on newstalk last night. Apparently there will be more corporate tickets in the new LR (15k) than there is in croker. Astonishing if you ask me. On that basis, if the corporate level is 15k and the BB is approx 30k, its no wonder there was very little tickets left over for allocation to WL.

They were discussing the prospect of big games been moved to croker in future years. They rightly concluded it wont happen without a substantial compensation to Aviva, ie it wont happen.

[jok1]

heard a bit of that last night, and with the fact Delaney will not say how many Corporate tickets they have sold, would hopefully indicate that they will require some WListers to fill the stadium......I hope!

[jbyrne]

Im a WLer. I dont ever recall a friendly in the last 10/15 years in LR where it was a struggle to get tickets. The only one that I can think of is the Brazil scoreless draw a few years back.

The issue of availabilty of Aviva tickets was discussed on newstalk last night. Apparently there will be more corporate tickets in the new LR (15k) than there is in croker. Astonishing if you ask me. On that basis, if the corporate level is 15k and the BB is approx 30k, its no wonder there was very little tickets left over for allocation to WL.

They were discussing the prospect of big games been moved to croker in future years. They rightly concluded it wont happen without a substantial compensation to Aviva, ie it wont happen.

50,000 is all we need. yes, the initial novelty factor will lead to a clamber for tickets but there are not more than 50,000 genuienely interested in attending our home games

[elroy]

50,000 is all we need. yes, the initial novelty factor will lead to a clamber for tickets but there are not more than 50,000 genuienely interested in attending our home games

Yes and no. 50k is as we need for the majority of our games, however the likes of the recent Italian and the upcoming french games, you could sell tickets for twice that number and its then the WLers are likely to be forced to scramble.

For example, in the last few campaigns these are the games where I personally have struggled to get tickets, the others no problem:
2001: Holland/Portugal/Iran
2003: Russia/Swiss
2005: France/Swiss

[Bluetonic]

Im a WLer. I dont ever recall a friendly in the last 10/15 years in LR where it was a struggle to get tickets. The only one that I can think of is the Brazil scoreless draw a few years back.

Of course there wasn't any struggle as the capacity increased by around 13k for a friendly game due to the terracing being allowed. You also had nearly 100% of the away allocation (china being the exception) available adding another few thousand.

As I said already the capacity won't increase for friendlies any more so there will few and far between tickets offered to waiting list member, only excess sponsors tickets as everyone on the block booking are under obligation to take tickets to remain on the list.

[jbyrne]

Yes and no. 50k is as we need for the majority of our games, however the likes of the recent Italian and the upcoming french games, you could sell tickets for twice that number and its then the WLers are likely to be forced to scramble.

For example, in the last few campaigns these are the games where I personally have struggled to get tickets, the others no problem:
2001: Holland/Portugal/Iran
2003: Russia/Swiss
2005: France/Swiss

yes, but the capacity was less than 35k for those

[jok1]

Spot on J.Byrne, was it the Georgia game in Cp, all the lights were off in the Corporate boxes and premium level was empty, with crowd of about 50K. The timing by the FAI for selling to the Corporate could not be worse, companies cannot be seen to let staff go and be shelling out thousands on seats in the Aviva

[Schumi]

Of course there wasn't any struggle as the capacity increased by around 13k for a friendly game due to the terracing being allowed. You also had nearly 100% of the away allocation (china being the exception) available adding another few thousand.

As I said already the capacity won't increase for friendlies any more so there will few and far between tickets offered to waiting list member, only excess sponsors tickets as everyone on the block booking are under obligation to take tickets to remain on the list.
There are the same number of tickets for friendlies now and as it seems that block booking numbers have barely increased, there's no reason to believe that friendly tickets will be harder to come by than before. The only difference is that more of the seats are corporate but I'd expect something to be worked out, there's no sense in the FAI leaving seats empty while other people can't get in.

[SuperDave]

Im a WLer. I dont ever recall a friendly in the last 10/15 years in LR where it was a struggle to get tickets. The only one that I can think of is the Brazil scoreless draw a few years back.

The issue of availabilty of Aviva tickets was discussed on newstalk last night. Apparently there will be more corporate tickets in the new LR (15k) than there is in croker. Astonishing if you ask me. On that basis, if the corporate level is 15k and the BB is approx 30k, its no wonder there was very little tickets left over for allocation to WL.

They were discussing the prospect of big games been moved to croker in future years. They rightly concluded it wont happen without a substantial compensation to Aviva, ie it wont happen.

There were people queuing overnight outside st steven's green to get tickets on ticketmaster for that one. I got tickets but only just.

Incidentally, is that the only time the FAI sold tickets as part of a three match group? I remember two match packages but not any other three match ones.

[elroy]

Of course there wasn't any struggle as the capacity increased by around 13k for a friendly game due to the terracing being allowed. You also had nearly 100% of the away allocation (china being the exception) available adding another few thousand.

As I said already the capacity won't increase for friendlies any more so there will few and far between tickets offered to waiting list member, only excess sponsors tickets as everyone on the block booking are under obligation to take tickets to remain on the list.

Fair enough, i take your point. Mine was more so if you look at the friendlies we have had in CP, they have been at best around the 50k mark, usually less, again with the exception of Brazil. Tickets will be relatively easy to come by for the friendlies in LR, Im not saying they will be offered officially by the FAI to WLers as there may not be any available i.e. all corporate and BB pre sales.

Of course you will more than likely have the away allocation made available for WLers.


yes, but the capacity was less than 35k for those

Yes but what was the corporate no of tickets in the old LR, id be very surprised if it is anywhere near the 15k for new LR.

So when you factor in that alot of the increase in capacity will have gone to the corporate sector, the marginal increase for the 'normal average' fan seat will not be much.