Dempsey in 'nanny state' showdown on drink-driving limits

[John83]

there is a question I always wondered about and this seems to be the right thread to ask it on. If I had 8 pints on a night out, by what time the next day would I be legal to drive if I had stopped drinking at midnight
There are rules of thumb, but the truth is, it depends on a whole pile of things - when you started drinking those eight pints, your size and your metabolism being the big ones.


There are at least ten times the amounts of "idiots" driving with little pink pieces of paper than there are "idiots" driving with green ones.
In theory, the ones with the pink papers are a higher grade of idiot. In practice, well, maybe we need to rethink how we test drivers.

[OneRedArmy]

If Mattie McGrath's comments weren't so serious they would be hilarious. After his last brush with the law I thought he'd keep a low profile for a while.

40% of the vote in the last election went to a party that selects morons like this to serve the people. Not to mention the other FF TD who is serving a driving ban for drink driving and who has come out against the reduction.

God help us.

[John83]

What has he said, other than, "I'm agin it."?

[passinginterest]

I believe he said he thinks having a drink can help nervous drivers to relax!

It would be funny if it wasn't so downright farcical that he's an elected member of the government.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-drink-helps-some-drivers-td-1924931.html

There's the full story.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Between the McGraths, O'Keefes, McDaids, Healy-Raes and Co. ...and they're just among the gob****e element ...I dunno -maybe the Churchills and Kiplings were right. We don't deserve independence and aren't fit to administer our own country.

[OneRedArmy]

FF arguably always have been anti-intellectual. Add in Bertie to your list and Charlie to a lesser extent.

I honestly don't know enough about history to definitively state where this came from, but I would imagine it started out pre-formation of the state as a backlash to the then "West Brit" Trinity intelligensia and representing the interests of working class and rural Ireland.

It of course conveniently ingnores that over history many of the key republican figures in our history were intellectual-types.

Would welcome the view of any Irish history buffs to give their view as to whether the anti-intellectualism has always been part of FF or whether its a recent phenomena?

[SunnySweeney]

I have noticed that when i play car racing video games that my reaction times lessen dramatically after even half a beer. The response times are just not nearly as sharp.

I am above average build and I drink quite regularly.

I'm getting more conservative as I get older and I think I am in favour on a total ban of driving after drinking (any amount). In my opinion, reaction times and ability to respond quickly after drinking even the smallest amount is just not 100%.

Zero tolerance would get rid of all the ambiguity in the law once and for all.

Every time I hear someone say I'm a big guy, I've got a quick metabolism, high tolerance etc - I just think what a load of rubbish.

[John83]

...I think I am in favour on a total ban of driving after drinking (any amount). In my opinion, reaction times and ability to respond quickly after drinking even the smallest amount is just not 100%.

Zero tolerance would get rid of all the ambiguity in the law once and for all.
Define zero. If you had a drink last Friday, your blood alcohol level is still (barely) elevated. If you had four last night, your BAC is unquestionably up. I haven't had a drink in over a month, but there's alcohol in my system. Not much, but the body makes a little normally.

If you're a better driver than me - and as I've only driven a car with manual transmission a couple of dozen times since I passed my test last year (and hardly any car at all in the past five months), and my reaction times are probably above the mean, you probably are, then you're probably as safe on the road as me even having drank last night, particularly as I'm a bit tired at the moment.

The real world doesn't like sharp edges.


Every time I hear someone say I'm a big guy, I've got a quick metabolism, high tolerance etc - I just think what a load of rubbish.
People are very good at that sort of thing. Those factors do come into play, but people tend to use them as an excuse.

[SunnySweeney]

Define zero. If you had a drink last Friday, your blood alcohol level is still (barely) elevated. If you had four last night, your BAC is unquestionably up. I haven't had a drink in over a month, but there's alcohol in my system. Not much, but the body makes a little normally.

I'm not sure how you'd define 'zero' - maybe less than x parts per thousand, I don't know. I think that they could legislate/allow for minute traces If you drank a couple of days ago.

It's too much of a grey area. The Government should step up and introduce legislation to have a law that anyone driving shouldn't drink at all. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people who might get caught with substantive traces in their system the next day. Convict them too.

It's all too much of a grey area - the way to get over that is to drop the allowable concentration to virtually nothing.

People will get over it - the earth will keep spinning - and we'll all be a lot safer.

That TD's comments are outrageous - who elected that moronic buffoon?

[dahamsta]

Will you outlaw cough medicine too SunnySweeney? Strenuous exercise? Tiredness?

[SunnySweeney]

Will you outlaw cough medicine too SunnySweeney? Strenuous exercise? Tiredness?


Sure, why not.

In the US, if your driving is impaired because of antihistamines/ drowsy cough medicine etc and you are caught - you are subject to the very same DUI laws as alchohol.

As regards tiredness, let's say you are in an accident and there is evidence that the cause was fatigue - because you had just got off a trans atlantic overnight flight and then embarked on a long car journey ...... or you worked a 16 hour shift and then decided to drive half way across the country ...... you should be liable for that and whoever you've harmed should be able to sue the panse off you.

If you decide not to wear your prescriptive reading glasses and get in an accident because you are half blind, then they should throw your ass in jail.

Getting back to alchohol - my view is they should reduce the concentration to virtually zero. If you give people an inch, they'll take a mile (particularly in this country).

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a high horse I need to ride around the place ....

[John83]

You're taking the extremes of tiredness there. What if you just have a rough day at work? Or your infant has been keeping you up at night? Should new fathers have to take a bus into work each day?

Also, not to be pedantic, but if you're wearing reading glasses, which correct long sightedness, in the car, you're probably in trouble. :P

"Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile" is a slippery slope argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) - it don't hold no weight with me.

[Macy]

Getting back to alchohol - my view is they should reduce the concentration to virtually zero. If you give people an inch, they'll take a mile (particularly in this country).
If you don't enforce (particulary in this country) they'll take a mile.

[SunnySweeney]

You're taking the extremes of tiredness there. What if you just have a rough day at work? Or your infant has been keeping you up at night? Should new fathers have to take a bus into work each day?

Also, not to be pedantic, but if you're wearing reading glasses, which correct long sightedness, in the car, you're probably in trouble. :P

"Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile" is a slippery slope argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) - it don't hold no weight with me.


Unfortunately we cannot breathalyze for tiredness - if we could, I'd be in favor of that too. In an impefect world, we can just hope that people use their own personal judgement and act accordingly.

What we can breathalyze for (with relative accuracy) though is alcohol and we should take advantage of that - I'm personally in favor of reducing the limit to 0.000mg.

I am of the opinion that even a small amount of alcohol impairs judgement and the ability to make quick split second decisions. We are asking someone with impaired judgement to make a decision if they are able to drive. That's just crazy. Now if we reduce the allowed blood alcohol level to (practically) 0.000mg, the only decision the punter needs to make is - Do i want that first gob full of beer or do I want to drive home? Hmmm


I don't buy the slippery slope argument. Our government hasn't the imagination and couldn't get off their asses long enough to set us on our way to a fascist totaliterian state. We live in a relatively free society but we still have some laws. The reason we have laws is that presumably before they were passed things weren't working so well - hence speed limit laws, seat belt legislation, driving tests for learner drivers etc.

Impaired driving in general is a serious issue. At the risk of sounding dramatic here, as a father now, it scares the hell out of me. I've definitely got more conservative as I've got older.

[dahamsta]

I'm personally in favor of reducing the limit to 0.000mg.This is where everyone stopped reading SunnySweeney. You don't understand the basic biology of the subject you're commenting on (despite someone already taking the time to explain it to you), so either go away and do some research into it, or be quiet.

Those are your options, and I'm telling you this as a moderator.

adam

[pineapple stu]

Say I'm in the medical profession. After finishing work, I wash my hands with an alcohol-based cleaner. Should I be banned from driving home?

[SunnySweeney]

This is where everyone stopped reading SunnySweeney. You don't understand the basic biology of the subject you're commenting on (despite someone already taking the time to explain it to you), so either go away and do some research into it, or be quiet.

Those are your options, and I'm telling you this as a moderator.

adam

OK, I did some research (very little I admit). This is the first link that popped up for me.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/outreach/safesobr/13qp/facts/factzero.html

I am in favour of zerro tolerance. If you had read my post, you would have noticed that I also said that I was in favour of reducing the allowable limit to VIRTUALLY 0.000mg.

10 of the states within the US already have a 0.000mg standard for under 21 yr olds - while the majority of the other states are at .0002mg or less.

Listen, I like the board and I don't want to cheese anyone off - so that's the last I'll contribute on the matter.

GLuck to all

[dahamsta]

I can't speak for the .00 laws in the US because that page doesn't make it clear what .00 means - as someone has already pointed out, nobody has a blood alcohol of absolute zero - but I would note that your own numbers are out by a factor of a hundred. That's quite a lot.

[osarusan]

Say I'm in the medical profession. After finishing work, I wash my hands with an alcohol-based cleaner. Should I be banned from driving home?
Does it impair your ability to drive?

[Macy]

Say I'm in the medical profession. After finishing work, I wash my hands with an alcohol-based cleaner. Should I be banned from driving home?
Just don't brush your teeth and use a mouthwash...

[centre mid]

Its imaterial really what Dempsey sets the level at, if there isnt enough enforcement then he may as well whistle dixie. There is no point in doing 2000 test over a bank holiday weekend and not bother the rest of the time. I've been drving for over 8 years, I live just outside Dublin and drive 50 miles everyday to and from work, I work a lot of weekends and would regularly be on the way back from work around 10pm on weekends. I have never once been breathalized, not once.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I live just outside Dublin and drive 50 miles everyday to and from work, I work a lot of weekends and would regularly be on the way back from work around 10pm on weekends. I have never once been breathalized, not once.

Driving 9 years, live just outside Limerick city and have been breathalised exactly once and that's because I was doing just over 40 in a 30 zone (longpavement for those who know it) at 2AM midweek.

[Ringo]

I was in Killkenny at the weekend. Garda roadblocks on the Dublin Road at lunchtime. I'm told they do it every Sunday to catch The stags heading back to Dublin over the limit. I wouldn't have been thinking about that. Seems unfair. I know if your over the limit, your over the limit, but i think its a way of catching people out, who'd never drink & drive.

[Mr A]

Except that if they're caught, they ARE drinking and driving.

[John83]

Except that if they're caught, they ARE drinking and driving.
Exactly. This idea that it's okay if there's some special event on doesn't make any sense. Buy a bloody train ticket.

[Ringo]

The point is we've all probably been guilty of drink driving the following day, as it’s extremely difficult to know at what stage the following day the alcohol has left your system. As usual there’s no information or attempts to educate people about being over the limit the next day.

[pineapple stu]

Yes there is. I don't listen to ads much, but even I'm pretty sure I've heard ads about how you may be over the limit the following day. A site like drinkaware.ie - promoted on all drinks ads - tells you how long alcohol lasts in your system.

And what about those two weeks we sent on drink-driving-the-day-after camp?

[John83]

And what about those two weeks we sent on drink-driving-the-day-after camp?
Was that during drink-driving-the-day-after month?

[osarusan]

As usual there’s no information or attempts to educate people about being over the limit the next day.From drinkaware.ie, which, to the best of my knowledge, is visible on every advertisement for alcohol on Irish TV.

http://www.drinkaware.ie/index.php?sid=6&pid=18


A Simple Solution
There is, however, a simple solution. Make arrangements to get home by taxi or by public transport, or take it in turns to be the designated driver.

If you're drinking tonight you might be over the limit to drive tomorrow morning. The thing is, your body gets rid of roughly one standard drink per hour. No amount of black coffee or cold showers or even a full Irish can sober you up faster.

[Ringo]

They should give information on beer mats or in toilets. Put better information on the product like cigarettes. Put it in peoples faces. Having a web site link is a cop out.

[osarusan]

Having a web site link is a cop out.
I think that you saying that something which is about 30 seconds and 5 clicks of a mouse away from you is too inaccessible is a cop out on your part, to be honest. If people really want access to the information, it is readily available to them.

[Ringo]

I think that you saying that something which is about 30 seconds and 5 clicks of a mouse away from you is too inaccessible is a cop out on your part, to be honest. If people really want access to the information, it is readily available to them.

I'm not talking about me. its accessible as long as they have internet access. So your ruling out a huge portion of the population.

'Liquor liability' trial of barmen set for next year


TWO barmen charged with the unlawful killing of an English man who died from acute alcohol intoxication on the night of his birthday will have their case heard next year.

The criminal case -- the first "liquor liability" trial in Ireland -- was brought against the two bar staff following a lengthy probe by gardai under the supervision of Supt Tony Cogan of Thurles Garda Station.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/liquor-liability-trial-of-barmen-set-for-next-year-1953703.html

[pineapple stu]

Are you saying a huge poprtion of the population don't have access to the internet?

[Ringo]

Are you saying a huge poprtion of the population don't have access to the internet?



http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=it_net_user_p2&idim=country:IRL&q=internet+usage+in+ireland

Not too sure how they get their data, but at least 36% Don't & its not clear what access is? If you used your arguement we could do away with speed signs and just have a website with the information on it for motorists;)

[pineapple stu]

Do you really need explaining why speed limits - which can change every couple of hundred yards - are different to general alcohol consumption information?