Conor Clifford

[Carrigaline]

Looks like his loan could over before it ever really began: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-boss-contemplating-shock-player-exit-1-4261213
The manager clearly doesn't fancy him, so it's in his interest to leave. He needs to be playing first team football at this stage. Even if he drops down to League 2, at least he can make a name for himself and get the attention of other clubs. After all, his contract is up in the Summer and I can't see Chelsea renewing it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Every time I see this thread bumped I assume Clifford has pulled a wobbly and decided to go back to Chelsea. Not very good for him if he's the one to make way, although it's disappointing to see Long slipping out of favour too.

[Colbert Report]

Sounds like his career is over. If he can't even get a roster spot on a team that poor, he must be a terrible player. Wages certainly aren't the issue. Too bad, I follow him on Twitter and he seems like a very nice young man. Maybe he'd consider a move back to Ireland?

[Charlie Darwin]

Yep, just announced now on twitter that his career is over:

Sky Sports quotes him as saying: "If I can't even get a roster spot on a team [Portsmouth] this poor, I must be a terrible player. So it's the knacker's yard for me."

Shame.

[Bungle]

Sounds like his career is over. If he can't even get a roster spot on a team that poor, he must be a terrible player. Wages certainly aren't the issue. Too bad, I follow him on Twitter and he seems like a very nice young man. Maybe he'd consider a move back to Ireland?

Remember seeing him play for Ireland u19s at a 4 team tournament involving Portugal, Holland and Turkey and he was voted the player of the tournament. It was around the time he was captaining Chelsea to the FA Youth Cup. He was absolutely outstanding.

Football is a funny game. Guys can come from nowhere like Roy Keane and become greats of the game and very lauded guys like Richie Partridge or Graham Barrett can fade away into obscurity, for a variety of reasons.

What Conor needs is to get himself into a team where the manager trusts him like he seems to have had with Peter Reid last year. He played great stuff apparrently.

[Carrigaline]

Football is a funny game. Guys can come from nowhere like Roy Keane and become greats of the game and very lauded guys like Richie Partridge or Graham Barrett can fade away into obscurity, for a variety of reasons.
Roy Keane was a first team footballer for Forest when he was 19 so I wouldn't really say he came from nowhere.

[liamoo11]

I think Clifford will have a good career. He has got himself out on loan a few times and things just have not worked out. Same age as henderson who has never played a league game in england but has obviously been victim of horrible injuries. They both have a lot to prove but hopefully do. Remember hourihane was named in top 10 players at under 17 euros 2008 and is at plymouth now but still good footballer

[Stuttgart88]

Roy Keane was a first team footballer for Forest when he was 19 so I wouldn't really say he came from nowhere.
He was probably referring to Cobh.

[Bungle]

Roy Keane was a first team footballer for Forest when he was 19 so I wouldn't really say he came from nowhere.

I meant that when he was 16/17/18, he wasn't on the radar at all. He was lucky that all the pieces fell into place for him (good scouting to get him to Forest and a great manager like Clough who recognised his brilliance and was maverick enough to trust him and give him his debut at Anfield when Liverpool were magnificent) and he went on to become one of the greatest midfielders of all time. Clifford on the other hand, like players like Partridge and Barrett before him was very highly rated by top English clubs. This in itself isn't enough to make it in the game but I'm just trying to highlight how funny a game it is.

[Fixer82]

Do you think coming from Ireland at an older age than most (19 or 20) is better than being in England from 15 and being hyped up? (Roy Keane, James McClean, Kevin Doyle)
Do you think players lose their focus/concentration when they're constantly being told they're the next big thing or if they're captaining their clubs to FA youth cups.
They might think, well I'm a shoe-in to be making it in at least a mid-table premiership team if I'm captaining Chelsea at 18 etc etc.

I could be wrong but I imagine it is much easier to go from Pat's to Sunderland for example and just get stuck in. It's fresh for the player and the player is more mature

[Bungle]

Do you think coming from Ireland at an older age than most (19 or 20) is better than being in England from 15 and being hyped up? (Roy Keane, James McClean, Kevin Doyle)
Do you think players lose their focus/concentration when they're constantly being told they're the next big thing or if they're captaining their clubs to FA youth cups.
They might think, well I'm a shoe-in to be making it in at least a mid-table premiership team if I'm captaining Chelsea at 18 etc etc.

I could be wrong but I imagine it is much easier to go from Pat's to Sunderland for example and just get stuck in. It's fresh for the player and the player is more mature

Yeah, I think that there is alot to be said for that. I have seen very good players from my area who come back during the summer when they're off from their clubs and even though they are still on the whole very decent and likeable lads, you can sometimes see that they are getting dragged in to that Premiership footballer world of fast cars and girls throwing themselves at them. You could see how they could lose their hunger or if they don't fulfill their talent, they could become disillusioned.

[Olé Olé]

Yeah, I think that there is alot to be said for that. I have seen very good players from my area who come back during the summer when they're off from their clubs and even though they are still on the whole very decent and likeable lads, you can sometimes see that they are getting dragged in to that Premiership footballer world of fast cars and girls throwing themselves at them. You could see how they could lose their hunger or if they don't fulfill their talent, they could become disillusioned.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing with a certain player too. He's still playing football (semi-pro at best, possibly amateur) but his career trajectory has been nothing but downward.

It's very difficult to definitively say which is the best career path for young players. It suited someone like Long, who focused on hurling for much of his youth and someone like Doyle, who was somewhat of a late bloomer. On the other hand, coming up through Prremier League and SPL clubs suited Dunne, Given, Keane and Duff. It all depends on the player I guess.

One thing must be said, imagine if James McClean had gone to England as an even less mature 16 year-old. We'd probably never have heard of him again.

[gastric]

Heard of a young guy who joined a prominent Scottish team last year and returned home soon after because of homesickness and he also missed his girlfriend. Didn't get a great reception from some locals who felt he was being stupid to turn his back on a professional career. Made harder by the big local media interest that occured before he left.
I have also seen people go up to a bloke in a pub who seemed to be 'the next big thing' (which was not to be) and cruelly say to him 'so the dream is over then'. It must be very hard at a young age to have to deal with rejection in another country and then face life with this 'stigma' attached to you in your own country.
On the other hand, John O 'Shea was very lucky to finish his Leaving Cert before joining Man U. I suppose what I am saying it is very much an individual journey.

[Charlie Darwin]

The thing is that often players returning from England are not only demoralised, but they've played so few games at a high enough level that they are physically behind the players who stayed behind. So at least Clifford has had experience at a decent level, which shows he can mix it so if he had to return to Ireland he could probably be a really good player. Not that he will return to Ireland, I think he's too good.

[Olé Olé]

It's nice to see Christy Fagan find some regular goalscoring form post-Manchester United. I spoke to a QPR scout at the Kennedy Cup the year that Clifford was playing for DDSL. He was raving about Clifford but maintained that Fagan was still the best player he ever saw in the competition.

[SwanVsDalton]

Heard of a young guy who joined a prominent Scottish team last year and returned home soon after because of homesickness and he also missed his girlfriend. Didn't get a great reception from some locals who felt he was being stupid to turn his back on a professional career. Made harder by the big local media interest that occured before he left.

McClean left Derry for Lincoln Town post Wellvan and relegation to First Division - returned a few weeks later, too homesick. Rest is history etc.

[gastric]

McClean left Derry for Lincoln Town post Wellvan and relegation to Division One - returned a few weeks later, too homesick. Rest is history etc.

Am I right in saying that McClean employed a personal trainer to help him get super fit and this helped him in achieving his move to Sunderland? if so, it shows determination and ambition to make it in football. I remember too reading that Stephen Hunt did similar and this helped him get to Wolves. Again, Hunt strikes me as someone with great determination to succeed.

[tricky_colour]

Do you think coming from Ireland at an older age than most (19 or 20) is better than being in England from 15 and being hyped up? (Roy Keane, James McClean, Kevin Doyle)
Do you think players lose their focus/concentration when they're constantly being told they're the next big thing or if they're captaining their clubs to FA youth cups.
They might think, well I'm a shoe-in to be making it in at least a mid-table premiership team if I'm captaining Chelsea at 18 etc etc.

I could be wrong but I imagine it is much easier to go from Pat's to Sunderland for example and just get stuck in. It's fresh for the player and the player is more mature


Am I right in saying that McClean employed a personal trainer to help him get super fit and this helped him in achieving his move to Sunderland? if so, it shows determination and ambition to make it in football. I remember too reading that Stephen Hunt did similar and this helped him get to Wolves. Again, Hunt strikes me as someone with great determination to succeed.

He he, I have managed to multi-quote, never done that before I must be getting smarter in my old age ;)

I don't think there is a simple answer to who is successful and who is not and why.
You certainly have to have the will and determination to succeed and Roy Keane certainly was not lacking in that.
But you also need some natural ability, will power alone won't do it.
There is so much competition these days you are going to need plenty of both, you probably need a fair bit of luck too.

[DannyInvincible]

Am I right in saying that McClean employed a personal trainer to help him get super fit and this helped him in achieving his move to Sunderland? if so, it shows determination and ambition to make it in football. I remember too reading that Stephen Hunt did similar and this helped him get to Wolves. Again, Hunt strikes me as someone with great determination to succeed.

McClean, in spite of what you might call his loose tongue on social media and networking sites, has terrific self-discipline with regard to his fitness. He doesn't drink at all and I'm sure I recall Stephen Kenny advising him to cut down on his nightly jogging whilst at Derry, in case he overdid it. So, he did it behind Kenny's back instead.

[Yard of Pace]

Am I right in saying that McClean employed a personal trainer to help him get super fit and this helped him in achieving his move to Sunderland? if so, it shows determination and ambition to make it in football. I remember too reading that Stephen Hunt did similar and this helped him get to Wolves. Again, Hunt strikes me as someone with great determination to succeed.

I've been told, by one of his teammates at the time, that Paul McShane, when he was at my boyhood club, Joeys, spent a summer training intensively with his father, and I mean intensively, in a bid to make it. He wasn't the best player there (as you can imagine!) but after the training he was in good enough shape to go to England.

[Uncle_Joe]

But you also need some natural ability, will power alone won't do it.
.


I would hold Paul McShane up as an example of succeeding through will power all alone

[jbyrne]

McClean, in spite of what you might call his loose tongue on social media and networking sites, has terrific self-discipline with regard to his fitness. He doesn't drink at all and I'm sure I recall Stephen Kenny advising him to cut down on his nightly jogging whilst at Derry, in case he overdid it. So, he did it behind Kenny's back instead.

how do these two things sit together?
If your manager wants you to avoid over doing it then the player should listen and obey.

[Olé Olé]

how do these two things sit together?
If your manager wants you to avoid over doing it then the player should listen and obey.

I would have thought that external discipline and self-discipline are completely different things and need not sit together. Just because McClean was told not to do something still means he can do that very thing in a disciplined manner i.e. self-disciplined.

[Carrigaline]

Clifford has returned to Chelsea.

http://www.chichester.co.uk/sport/football/pompey-latest/appy-hopeful-of-landing-hitman-1-4271136

[SwanVsDalton]

how do these two things sit together?
If your manager wants you to avoid over doing it then the player should listen and obey.

It depends. I'm not sure if it came from Kenny, but the story I heard involved the Derry coaching staff/physios advising him against doing solo road work in pre-season. Afaik, he cut down but didn't cut it out. They advised him against it in case he got injured. But he didn't - he only got fitter and better. And there was a feeling of 'well, we can advise him against it but we can't really tell a player to stop working hard'.

[tetsujin1979]

gone on loan to Crawley Town until January: https://twitter.com/crawleytown/status/271644861806026752

Conor Clifford has joined the club on loan from Chelsa until January 5th.
Short article on Crawley's site confirming the move: http://www.crawleytownfc.com/news/article/conor-clifford-500804.aspx

[tommy_c12000]

Actually delighted to see that. Good move for him. They are a team on the up in League One in comparison to the previous teams (Plymouth, Yeovil I think off hand) he joined who were struggling in League one at the time. Hope it goes well for him.

[nigel-harps1954]

You'd be fairly disappointed he couldn't get a Championship side at least though.

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought that's where he'd be at this stage of his development but after it didn't work out at his other L1 clubs you can see why Championship clubs wouldn't be keen.

[tommy_c12000]

Agreed. But it's been a while since he has had regular first team football of any sort. The last couple of loan moves haven't worked out. So at this stage it would be great if he does well during this loan spell at a strong League 1 side, start playing regular football again. Then hopefully in January he might have a couple of Championship teams interested in signing him until the end of the season

[tetsujin1979]

isn't there a limit in the number of loans you can have in one season? or is it in one calendar year?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think it's a maximum of three, but it only counts if you actually make an appearance.

[Crosby87]

He should change his name to Cliff Conor and maybe switch his luck around.
What is it that Tets always says? Never trust a man with two first names?

[theworm2345]

I think it's a maximum of three, but it only counts if you actually make an appearance.
I'm not sure, but I think you can only turn out for three teams, so if you've appeared for the team you are contracted to you can only appear for two on loan. I think that is in a season rather than a year though.

I remember Jamie Devitt went out on loan three times during one season and each team he appeared for got relegated.

[tetsujin1979]

He should change his name to Cliff Conor and maybe switch his luck around.
What is it that Tets always says? Never trust a man with two first names?
Yeah, that's my catchphrase.

[Carrigaline]

I thought that's where he'd be at this stage of his development but after it didn't work out at his other L1 clubs you can see why Championship clubs wouldn't be keen.
If you're viewed as being surplus to requirements at a League 1 team, then it's going to be hard to get a team a league up.

[Colbert Report]

Safe to call him just another bust at this stage I think.

[pineapple stu]

Yep; at 21, his career is over.

Give me strength.

[Olé Olé]

Billy Clarke has come into his best goal-scoring form in quite a while at Crawley, let's hope Clifford makes a breakthrough there also and use it as a platform. He's 21, but that's not that old for a central midfielder. Not everybody is James McCarthy.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yep; at 21, his career is over.

Give me strength.
At least he lasted longer than James McClean.

[Carrigaline]

Seems to be spending most of his time warming the bench. Concerning given that Crawley have been on the slide.

[gastric]

Seems to be spending most of his time warming the bench. Concerning given that Crawley have been on the slide.

Share your concern. At a top club, captained us at underage level, even called up to the senior side, and yet can't secure a regular starting spot at a League One club. Can't say I know what is happening with him. Anyone able to enlighten me?

[drummerboy]

Clifford would be better signing for a LOI team and rebuilding his career from there. Perhaps he is just not good enough. Amazing he gets selected for Irish panels ahead of the likes of Hendrick, Garvan, McCann, Dicker to name just a few.

[TrapAPony]

Clifford would be better signing for a LOI team and rebuilding his career from there. Perhaps he is just not good enough. Amazing he gets selected for Irish panels ahead of the likes of Hendrick, Garvan, McCann, Dicker to name just a few.

We have Gibson, McCarthy, Whelan, Andrews, Meyler, Hoolahan, Fahey, Tabb, A.Reid....Green ahead of him as well as the lads you mentioned. It is bizarre how Trapattoni picked him. He must have been impressed watching a DVD of Clifford sitting on the bench in League 1.:rolleyes:

[Kingdom]

Garvan, McCann, and Clifford (from what I've seen of them) are more ball playing central players than the rough and tumble destroyers that a lot of British managers want. Garvan in particular would be more suited to Continental European football.

It would be something I would like to see the FAI encourage more at the developmental stage, particularily for the kids that are destined to get moved abroad, is to focus on a bit of foreign language and not just herd the children to Britain

[liamoo11]

Garvan, McCann, and Clifford (from what I've seen of them) are more ball playing central players than the rough and tumble destroyers that a lot of British managers want. Garvan in particular would be more suited to Continental European football.

It would be something I would like to see the FAI encourage more at the developmental stage, particularily for the kids that are destined to get moved abroad, is to focus on a bit of foreign language and not just herd the children to Britain

We get to see if continental is better over the next few years wit those 2 10/11 yo kids at barca and real. Hopefully 2 classy strikers playing in laliga in 6 0r 7 years!

[nigel-harps1954]

Garvan, McCann, and Clifford (from what I've seen of them) are more ball playing central players than the rough and tumble destroyers that a lot of British managers want. Garvan in particular would be more suited to Continental European football.

It would be something I would like to see the FAI encourage more at the developmental stage, particularily for the kids that are destined to get moved abroad, is to focus on a bit of foreign language and not just herd the children to Britain


What I would like to see from the FAI is proper money put into development of football at home so they didn't have to leave the country at all. But that's just my opinion.

[Crosby87]

I would say that CC was the most overrated on here by some of the more respected posters which i wish was not true.

[magicman]

I would say that CC was the most overrated on here by some of the more respected posters which i wish was not true.

Why? Because he hasn't developed fully on the potential he has shown throughout his career so far?

I remember watching him at the Kennedy Cup and he was the best player I've seen play at that tournament, or schoolboy level, since Steven Ireland at the same competition or Daryl Kavanagh at u16 level.

He was miles ahead of anybody that year, think it was 2004, and every scout around was there to watch him play.

I've followed his career closely since and been to a couple of Chelsea games when I was in London and again, even when he played at reserve level, he looked the real deal.

Unfortunately, and it seems to be a common trend for Irish players at the bigger clubs, he didn't move on when he should have. Chelsea didn't offer him a new contract because they expected him to make it with them, they did it to try cash in on their investment over the years and any loan move hasn't been designed to benefit the player, it is more to get him in a shop window and hope someone offers a few quid to take him away.

Overrated? I'd second any respected posters view that he could have, and still could if he gets a good break, a brilliant player for Ireland

[Colbert Report]

So what's the deal here? He's gone from pushing to get into the Chelsea senior team to playing non-league football in about two years?