Folan and Duff out [Archive]

magnumpi

29/09/2009, 8:41 AM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0929/ireland.html

who would you bring in to replace? of course, we'll just go with mcgeady (if fit) and hunt on the wings, but who would now be the first plan B to throw on off the bench up front? Best has scored a few for coventry...so has clinton.

likealion

29/09/2009, 9:24 AM

It looks like Best is ahead of Clint in Traps plans so far anyway. Has Keogh been playing up top with wolves? Looks like it in any highlights I've seen anyway! Looks to be playing very well too

irishfan86

29/09/2009, 9:34 AM

Keogh has been starting for Wolves as a forward alongside Doyle, and has been doing well as you say.

I really hate when he plays for Ireland as a winger, but I've always liked him as a forward on the rare occasion I've seen him play for Wolves. He's not a natural finisher, but he works very hard, and is great at setting others up.

Tipp Townie

29/09/2009, 10:35 AM

On form alone then Clinton should be in line for a call-up surely? (to the squad, not starting XI)

However Folan is in the squad because he's a UNIT- is there anyone around who would be a like-for-like? I can't think of anyone at the mo (but i'm having a 'slow' day..)

Italy couldn't handle Folan last time, so its a real shame if he doesnt make it.

Stuttgart88

29/09/2009, 11:28 AM

having seen Best recently I think defenders will have a tough job containing him too.

Duff injured again, yet some insist we've been really lucky in this campaign. We've had 3 of our best players missing for most of the campaign.

Crosby87

29/09/2009, 11:31 AM

Wow they are dropping like flies. Hunt and McGeady? Ugh.
I know its annoying to keep having to answer these questions, but as far as getting into the final 8, if we lost to Italy and tied Montenegro, would that do?

Leeside Swagger

29/09/2009, 11:44 AM

Stephen Reid right mid perhaps if he's fit enough? McGeady on the left. I'd like to see Keogh on the bench, he's been playing well for Wolves so far and he's got a point to prove after the away match in Italy.

republicofwhite

29/09/2009, 12:26 PM

I've never been one to be overly vocal about the Andy Reid debate, but this has to be a perfect opportunity, especially if McGeady isn't 100%. I wonder if Reid has made a move such as considering an apology for his actions in private with Trapp. Mightn't be a bad idea. He's clearly outrageously determined to make his mark at the moment. I still cannot believe how skinny he is, and his pace and movement make him unrecognisable from before. He's playing seriously well in an attacking team thats banging in goals, all on the wing as well, and a set piece specialist to boot. He could slot into Trap's system perfectly given that this renaissance has all occurred on the wing and he hasnt been playing in the centre. I think its Olive Branch time, large style.

Tipp Townie

29/09/2009, 12:39 PM

I think Lawrence would come in on the wing before Andy Reid though wouldnt he? Even with an 'apology' from Reid i think Trap would stay loyal to the players he's had in the squad so far*. Lawrence proved against South Africa that he can step up for the (direct) set pieces and had a decent, if not spectacular game.

(* an exception to this could be Steven Reid of course, as his absence has been purely injury-related, you'd imagine anyway).

Personally i think on form Andy Reid should definitely be in there. He's creating and/or scoring goals in most games now.

Stuttgart88

29/09/2009, 12:45 PM

Playing Steven Reid on the right was a dumb mistake made by previous managers. Why perpetuate this mistake? If he plays, play him in the middle.

Lawrence did enough against SA to be considered as a starter.

McGeady is supposed to be fit anyway.

Lawrence & McGeady would be my favoured options unless Reid is called up.

Calling Reid up would be great but I doubt it'll happen. Trap has enough options up his sleeve though. Kilbane can still play LHS if required and he might just even consider playing Miller RHS.

Nothing compensates for Duff's absence.

Leeside Swagger

29/09/2009, 12:56 PM

Playing Steven Reid on the right was a dumb mistake made by previous managers. Why perpetuate this mistake? If he plays, play him in the middle.

He started out as a right mid, he's done well in that position for club and country in the past, its only in the last few seasons that he's moved to a more central role. Yes he is better in the middle but we already have an effective if unspectacular combination in there, for me its still the best option. Probably never going to happen though.;)

Stuttgart88

29/09/2009, 1:12 PM

In my opinion he has only done OK at RHM at club level at Millwall but not since, and he's been very erratic RHM for Ireland - Russia at home at Germany away in particular where he was anonymous. Lawrence is a country mile ahead of him in this position I think.

NeilMcD

29/09/2009, 1:57 PM

I think Lawrence and McGeady or Lawrence and Hunt will be fine. I think the Lawrence and McGeady combo gives you a brain and brawn aspect to it I suppose. I know that is simplistic but you get my drift. Stephen Reid should not play on the right hand side in the same way that Kilbane should not play in the middle.

tetsujin1979

29/09/2009, 2:12 PM

geysir

29/09/2009, 2:15 PM

Hunt has form against the Italians.

I'd say it's a safe bet that Trap will continue with Hunt and McGeady to start.
Will Trap have the evil eye over Lippi again?

Stuttgart88

29/09/2009, 2:22 PM

thought Carsley was RHM for the Russia game at home?Pretty sure it was Reid, with Carr behind him.

Not sure did Carsley start or come off the bench, but I'm pretty sure he was CM.

tetsujin1979

29/09/2009, 2:30 PM

Pretty sure it was Reid, with Carr behind him.

Carsley gave away that stupid / unlucky handball. Not sure did he start or come off the bench, but I'm pretty sure he was CM.
According to the report on soccerscene - http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=392 - the team lined up

Given
Carr Cunningham Breen O'Shea
Carsley Holland Healy Kilbane
Morrison Duff

Subs:
S. Reid -> Carsley
Harte -> O'Shea
Doherty -> Morrison
I remember that Carsley was injured before the game, and one of the big talking points was whether or not he'd be fit for it.
Going by the match thread - http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=9815 - he didn't do much in the game anyway

Stuttgart88

29/09/2009, 2:35 PM

According to the soccerscene report Carsley started on the right, and was replaced by Reid on 45 minutes. So they both played half a game on the right, and according to the very respected foot.ie ratings both were crap with Reid probably the worse of the two!

geysir

29/09/2009, 3:01 PM

That was a poor enough team lined up against Russia.
Trap has a way better squad to chose from than that.

Lenny82

29/09/2009, 7:31 PM

Is there any truth in the rumours earlier about McGeady not being 100%? I'm sure he would recover in time anyway but if not, Trap would have to call up Andy Reid. Obviously Hunt and Lawrence would then start on the wings, with Andy Reid or Keogh (although I don't rate him as a winger) to come off the bench. No way should S. Reid play on the right though. That is just asking for a boring 0-0 draw (or more likely a 1-0 defeat). S. Reid is at his best smack bang in the centre and could be a surprise starter along side Whelan.

On form, Morrison definitely deserves a re-call in place of Folan but as Noel Hunt has been in the squad more recently, I would imagine he would get the nod.

EastTerracer

29/09/2009, 9:52 PM

According to today's Daily Express (a rag I know):

"Fulham winger Damien Duff's calf injury is not as bad as first feared. The 30-year-old limped out of Saturday's 1-0 home defeat by Arsenal after only nine minutes and will miss Thursday's Europa League match with Basel. However, he is expected to be fit for the visit of Roma on 22 October."

If Duffer's injury is not so severe then two weeks to the Montenegro game might give him a chance.

4tothefloor

29/09/2009, 10:07 PM

Anyone suggesting Steven Reid on the right should stop watching football. Sweet Jesus.......

noddy102

01/10/2009, 9:03 AM

Anyone suggesting Steven Reid on the right should stop watching football. Sweet Jesus.......

I completely agree. One should not forget how out of place he was and must have felt, playing there against Germany in Stuttgart, 2006, when Stan must have thought this was the place to play him. He's a central midfielder and that is that!

For me, I'd rather Liam Lawrence played on the right and McGeady on the left... but if Duff isn't fit, it will likely be Hunt and McGeady operating as wingers.

tetsujin1979

01/10/2009, 9:12 AM

Positive news on Duff this morning: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/good-news-for-trapattoni-as-winger-gets-tentative-nod-for-italy-clash-1901089.html

"For Damien, at the moment, it would be very much touch and go (with relation to Italy)," said Hodgson yesterday. "We think he will be at least two weeks from when he picked up the injury. So that would take him to Ireland's first match so it will be touch and go."

twoenz

01/10/2009, 9:13 AM

Morrisson has ****ed off the Don Givens though, and there doesn't seem to be any coming back from that, no matter how good your form is.

magnumpi

01/10/2009, 9:24 AM

why, what did he do to **** off don givens?

twoenz

01/10/2009, 9:35 AM

Sorry, I'm getting mixed up. He was blamed for the Cyprus game though (even though he played up front last time I checked), so by association with that he's never going to be picked again.

LFCSixty/Eighty

01/10/2009, 10:18 AM

Don Givens has done more harm that good in his time in charge of the Ireland team and as temporary manager for the senior team. He has fallen out with more players than anyone I've ever heard in charge of a team, and this is just another example. How he still has a job and is obviously held in such high esteem within the FAI is beyond me.

Leeside Swagger

01/10/2009, 11:01 AM

For me, I'd rather Liam Lawrence played on the right and McGeady on the left... but if Duff isn't fit, it will likely be Hunt and McGeady operating as wingers.

Wouldn't fancy Lawrence, he has no experience at this level.

noddy102

01/10/2009, 11:16 AM

Wouldn't fancy Lawrence, he has no experience at this level.

He's got two caps now. He's a good enough, mature enough and wise enough player to succeed.
It is exactly what we need against Italy. An unknown player, under their radar, who can hit a set-piece.
We don't have any other natural right winger to choose from.

ifk101

01/10/2009, 11:23 AM

Can't say I'd like to see Lawrence start against Italy. We play with two wingers, Lawrence can't play as a winger and that was pretty obvious in his two internationals to date imo.

Leeside Swagger

01/10/2009, 11:25 AM

He's got two caps now. He's a good enough, mature enough and wish enough player to succeed.
It is exactly what we need against Italy. An unknown player, under their radar, who can hit a set-piece.
We don't have any other natural right winger to choose from.

The last thing we want is a repeat of Keogh's opening 30mins against Italy. Better to stick with experience for this one.

noddy102

01/10/2009, 11:25 AM

Can't say I'd like to see Lawrence start against Italy. We play with two wingers, Lawrence can't play as a winger and that was pretty obvious in his two internationals to date imo.

He wasn't played on his preferred side in either game if I recall correctly?

ifk101

01/10/2009, 11:29 AM

He wasn't played on his preferred side in either game if I recall correctly?

I know he played on the right against Nigeria, can't remember against SA- fell asleep during that one. The wingers usually rotate sides in game as well.

Morbo

01/10/2009, 11:43 AM

I think Lawrence has a bit of character about him and would be able to handle the pressure of the italy game despite just having 2 caps and is probably more likely to get you a goal than McGeady tbh.

geysir

01/10/2009, 12:04 PM

Can't say I'd like to see Lawrence start against Italy. We play with two wingers, Lawrence can't play as a winger and that was pretty obvious in his two internationals to date imo.

Do you think Trap is fixed about 2 wingers playing in traditional sense of wingers?
I think Trap if he had to, can easily accommodate Lawrence in the team playing out wide. He is a mature enough player with plenty of league experience, plus a handy free kick technique.

Stuttgart88

01/10/2009, 3:54 PM

I think there's only a handful of people on this site who appreciate the difference between a winger and a wide midfielder. Keogh is neither by the way, but the fact that Trap has played him there suggests he's not hubng up on playing traditional wingers. He wants a guy who is comfortable playing wide, be it a winger or a wide midfielder. Laewrence is a perfectly good option on the right.

ifk101

01/10/2009, 4:12 PM

.... but the fact that Trap has played him there suggests he's not hubng up on playing traditional wingers....

... or not prepared to deviate from his tactics which is more players adapting to the system rather than vice versa. Yes Lawrence can play as a right midfielder but he's not a winger in the sense Duff or McGeady are. As the system employed by Trapattoni depends on the two wingers providing a creative and attacking threat, the inclusion of a non-winger in the winger position obviously weakens the team as evident by Keogh's sub-standard performances and the lukewarm performances by Lawrence in his 2 internationals.

Stuttgart88

01/10/2009, 10:57 PM

Don't agree with that.

I don't think you can read anything into Keogh's performances & impact on the RHS other than that the guy is a forward and nothing else. I'm simply saying that the right side of the pitch requires a specialist, but there are two types of player that can specialise in that area - an old fashioned winger or what I'd call a "wide midfielder".

What I think you can deduce is that Trap prefers solidity rather than creativity in the middle.

Let's face it, Hunt doesn't exactly offer guile out wide, more of a "head down and run" approach combined with a half decent delivery and good work ethic. Lawrence is a variation of Hunt in that regard. Duff, McGeady and Andy Reid have more in the natural talent department. Trap has been more than happy to deploy Hunt, so to me that infers that functionality rather than creativity out wide is as important to Trap.

I'd be inclined to say that balance is the key for Trap, but that'd pose the question, what the F was Keogh ever doing there?

irishfan86

01/10/2009, 11:33 PM

I'd be inclined to say that balance is the key for Trap, but that'd pose the question, what the F was Keogh ever doing there?

I think if Trap had come in with a clean slate, and not watched DVDs of the last campaign (which he did do), then he'd use Keogh exclusively as a forward.

But the videos he watched of the Stan era included matches where Keogh played wide right, and so it was in his head that he was a winger.

I hope that phase is done though, and if we do use Keogh in future, that it's up top, because he's absolutely hopeless on the wing (through no fault of his own, it's simply not his position).

geysir

02/10/2009, 10:44 AM

I think you are confusing winger with RM.
Andy Reid is not a winger but he can play wide midfield.

It was Traps biggest cóck ups to put a team out against Italy with Keogh at rm and McShane at RB.
Some worry still lingers with his use of Keogh against SA.

tetsujin1979

02/10/2009, 10:52 AM

I think if Trap had come in with a clean slate, and not watched DVDs of the last campaign (which he did do), then he'd use Keogh exclusively as a forward.

But the videos he watched of the Stan era included matches where Keogh played wide right, and so it was in his head that he was a winger.

I hope that phase is done though, and if we do use Keogh in future, that it's up top, because he's absolutely hopeless on the wing (through no fault of his own, it's simply not his position).
what surprised me more is that both of Keogh's goals (VS Serbia and Forest) in Trapattoni's reign have come with him playing through the middle, and yet he still insists on playing him on the wing

shakermaker1982

02/10/2009, 11:33 AM

I feel sorry for Keogh. He's getting in the squads but it's not easy trying to learn a new position at international level.

backstothewall

04/10/2009, 10:12 AM

Alan Lee scored for Palace yesterday. I know he hasn't been near the squad in a while, but he offers the same kind of option as Folan. Might have been an option

Yard of Pace

04/10/2009, 10:35 AM

Alan Lee scored for Palace yesterday. I know he hasn't been near the squad in a while, but he offers the same kind of option as Folan. Might have been an option

Haha, not after what he said last year or the year before! Something about not caring if Ireland don't call him up, if I'm not mistaken.

tetsujin1979

04/10/2009, 11:49 AM

Didn't Lee say something about looking to declare for the States if Kerr didn't call him up as well?

Yard of Pace

04/10/2009, 1:02 PM

Didn't Lee say something about looking to declare for the States if Kerr didn't call him up as well?

Rings a bell alright. He played U-21 for us though, would that have ruled him out?
Anyway, Wiki says he has 10 senior caps. He should be proud of that as a Championship-level striker.