Paddy McCourt

[Flexy]

Another thing why is Mannus not in the NI squad for, he picks Blaney as 3rd choice keeper, obviously thinks Irish League is better than LOI or is it that he wants to keep the directors of the Blues happy with picking one of their players. The guy just doesnt have a clue about anything in management or coaching

[Dodge]

I'd imagine Mannus is in the cold for not going on the Summer tour when picked this year

[harry crumb]

McCourt's a Catholic from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic.

Is this the reason he's not being given a fair crack of the whip?

There is a guy in the squad aged 17 who has never even played a senior game of professional football FFS.

[Charlie Darwin]

There are other Catholics from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic who regularly make the squad.

[BrendyH]

There are other Catholics from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic who regularly make the squad.


Who exactly? McGinn is from Tyrone incase you were thinking he's from Derry

[OneRedArmy]

There are other Catholics from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic who regularly make the squad.McGinn isn't from Derry and hasn't been near the team in the games I've seen this season.

Apart from that you're right.

[Charlie Darwin]

I probably should have fact-checked that. But Celtic did buy him "from Derry" so I was kind of right :(

[Ceirtlis]

McCourt's a Catholic from Derry playing for Glasgow Celtic.

Is this the reason he's not being given a fair crack of the whip?

There is a guy in the squad aged 17 who has never even played a senior game of professional football FFS.

Its probably that he just doesnt rate McCourt as a player he will ever have use for, similar to Trapattoni and Andy Reid.

The jury is very much out on McCourt at Celtic by the way, his goals, although brilliant, have been against minnows, he is rarely involved in the bigger games.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Came on as a sub today for Celtic. Played barely half an hour and was walking around for too much of it. Not enough urgency and the fecker wouldn't run to warm himself up.

[Stevo Da Gull]

Came on as a sub today for Celtic. Played barely half an hour and was walking around for too much of it. Not enough urgency and the fecker wouldn't run to warm himself up.

True, though he looked very good with the ball at his feet and moved the ball forward quite well - which was needed when they brought him on. He could have had a huge impact on the game if were interested in occasionally running off the ball rather than walking about. He was usally behind the attackers and midfielders who were breaking forward and would get the ball, beat a player and pass it forward. This is fine as long as you don't lose the ball as with so many players pushing on the counter attack would be set up. He did lose the ball twice today and respond by grabbing the shirt of his opponent in attempt to stop an attack.

There was one interesting incident when a team mate misplaced a pass to him. Paddy appeared to have a bit of a moan before sauntering to the ball before it went out of play.
I do reckon he has the ability to be a factor in the bigger games. I am a bit surprised that he's not in the NI squad. I'd have him on the bench for most games myself but I'm not the manager :)

[EalingGreen]

Nigel Worthington is an idiot!!!!!!!!! again he over looks McCourt in the N Ireland squad, I look at some of the players in that squad and wonder what he sees in some of the players hes picked. No wonder Northern Ireland has lost players to the Republic with his mindless attitude. Milk Cup 2 yrs ago James McLean played great at the Milk Cup, on that team were Corey Evans Wipeee Cathgart and Josh Mcguines they have all represented Nireland now because McLean is playing in LOI he wont have a look at it him. Is it getting to the stage that he will only call protestant players into his team or at least have a look. Remember he took a few Irish league players away in the summer did he look at the LOI no enough saidIt is a matter of opinion whether McCourt merits a place on footballing grounds in the NI squad or not.

However, your clear assertion that NW is ignoring McCourt due to anti-Catholic prejudice, or is anti-LOI, is disgraceful, false, ignorant and almost certainly actionable.

In fact, it's so much so that it's difficult to know where to start, such is the amount of bile, misinformation and downright lies you've crammed into your post.

You refer to NW losing players to the ROI. Maybe so, but it's hardly down to his personal approach; on the contrary, it was he who persuaded Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor to return to NI (both Catholics, btw). Moreover, he has included Kane in his senior squad and awarded O'Connor all his 9 NI caps. Further, NW's latest young protege is Jonny Gorman, whom he persuaded to switch to NI from the ROI! (And seeing as Gorman qualified for the ROI via ancestry, his background may well be Catholic/Nationalist, not that anyone cares)

Now let's take James McClean (or ""McLean" as you insist on calling him) specifically. McClean has never played outside Derry City, yet NI picked him for their U-21's, when players with English/Scottish clubs etc were overlooked. Indeed, he was selected by Steve Beaglehole, appointed to the NI set-up by Nigel Worthington, who relies very heavily on his judgement.
You complain that fellow Milk Cup players have been capped before him. Let's make the comparison. Corry (not "Corey") Evans is Captain of MU Reserves and whilst that does not equate to their "second" team, it denotes a hell of a sight more potential than McClean. Moreover, he has been given a 1st team Squad Number, went on their pre-season tour to the USA (and played) and has been on the bench a couple of times in the EPL. Moreover, he can play several positions in defence or midfield. He is also a year younger than McClean.
As for Craig Cathcart, he has played a season and a half on loan in the Championship (Plymouth and Watford), before signing this season for Blackpool in the EPL, where he has played all their games to date. Despite that, he has yet to make his International debut, so you haven't even got that right.
And as for Josh Magennis (not "McGuines"), he has just signed for Aberdeen, where he has started the season in their 1st team. This follows on from having played a handful of games for Cardiff whilst still a teenager. He, too, is a year younger than McClean. As for his two NI caps, both of these were gained on a US Tour where, for contractual reasons, they were billed as "A" Internationals. NW, however, described it as a "development tour". Moreover, although I care not a jot otherwise, I suspect Magennis may actually be Catholic, considering his middle name is Brendan and I've seen him cross himself after scoring (for NI, btw). These are hardly conclusive, but I've never known any Prod called Brendan, nor any to cross himself.

Next up is your claim that because McClean is playing LOI, NW won't look at him. How do you square that with the fact of NW giving Niall McGinn his international debut whilst still with, ahem, Derry City? Or the fact that he wanted Alan Mannus (LOI) to join the US Tour in preference to Alan Blayney (IL), before Mannus turned him down? The simple fact is, there are only a handful of LOI players who qualify for NI, as opposed to dozens/hundreds in the IL. Also, the USA Tour to which you refer was slap bang in the middle of the LOI season, whereas it was end-of-season for IL players. Moreover, he wouldn't even have taken any of the IL players he did (bar one or two?), had he not suffered well over a dozen withdrawals from players in England/Scotland.

As for your disgraceful slur that NW is only interested in "Protestant" players, this is utter garbage - and offensive garbage at that. For just looking at the IL players NW has called up and capped alone, these have included nearly as many RC's as Prods eg Marty Donnelly, Rory Patterson and Michael Gault.

Finally, it was NW who took another look at Paddy McCourt, six years after his debut, during which time he was discarded by McIlroy and ignored by Sanchez (a Catholic former LOI manager btw). Of course, as I have alluded above, it is open to question whether Paddy should be in the present NI squad. But I would point out that the three players who have kept him out of the side in his preferred position were first Keith Gillespie and Damien Johnson (a Catholic, btw), then Niall McGinn of Derry City and Glasgow Celtic, a former GAA=playing Catholic from Donaghmore.

Of course ignorance of the facts is one thing, but for you to "fill in the gaps" with malicious insinuations and accusations of your own imagination, only betrays who the real bigot is. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I don't for one moment believe that that that will even register with you.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Talk about making a mountain of a molehill.

[Mr A]

The thing that really depresses me is that people would even know what religion their players were.

(Not a swipe at EG by the way, just a general comment. NI is what it is.)

[OneRedArmy]

It is a matter of opinion whether McCourt merits a place on footballing grounds in the NI squad or not.

However, your clear assertion that NW is ignoring McCourt due to anti-Catholic prejudice, or is anti-LOI, is disgraceful, false, ignorant and almost certainly actionable.

In fact, it's so much so that it's difficult to know where to start, such is the amount of bile, misinformation and downright lies you've crammed into your post.

You refer to NW losing players to the ROI. Maybe so, but it's hardly down to his personal approach; on the contrary, it was he who persuaded Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor to return to NI (both Catholics, btw). Moreover, he has included Kane in his senior squad and awarded O'Connor all his 9 NI caps. Further, NW's latest young protege is Jonny Gorman, whom he persuaded to switch to NI from the ROI! (And seeing as Gorman qualified for the ROI via ancestry, his background may well be Catholic/Nationalist, not that anyone cares)

Now let's take James McClean (or ""McLean" as you insist on calling him) specifically. McClean has never played outside Derry City, yet NI picked him for their U-21's, when players with English/Scottish clubs etc were overlooked. Indeed, he was selected by Steve Beaglehole, appointed to the NI set-up by Nigel Worthington, who relies very heavily on his judgement.
You complain that fellow Milk Cup players have been capped before him. Let's make the comparison. Corry (not "Corey") Evans is Captain of MU Reserves and whilst that does not equate to their "second" team, it denotes a hell of a sight more potential than McClean. Moreover, he has been given a 1st team Squad Number, went on their pre-season tour to the USA (and played) and has been on the bench a couple of times in the EPL. Moreover, he can play several positions in defence or midfield. He is also a year younger than McClean.
As for Craig Cathcart, he has played a season and a half on loan in the Championship (Plymouth and Watford), before signing this season for Blackpool in the EPL, where he has played all their games to date. Despite that, he has yet to make his International debut, so you haven't even got that right.
And as for Josh Magennis (not "McGuines"), he has just signed for Aberdeen, where he has started the season in their 1st team. This follows on from having played a handful of games for Cardiff whilst still a teenager. He, too, is a year younger than McClean. As for his two NI caps, both of these were gained on a US Tour where, for contractual reasons, they were billed as "A" Internationals. NW, however, described it as a "development tour". Moreover, although I care not a jot otherwise, I suspect Magennis may actually be Catholic, considering his middle name is Brendan and I've seen him cross himself after scoring (for NI, btw). These are hardly conclusive, but I've never known any Prod called Brendan, nor any to cross himself.

Next up is your claim that because McClean is playing LOI, NW won't look at him. How do you square that with the fact of NW giving Niall McGinn his international debut whilst still with, ahem, Derry City? Or the fact that he wanted Alan Mannus (LOI) to join the US Tour in preference to Alan Blayney (IL), before Mannus turned him down? The simple fact is, there are only a handful of LOI players who qualify for NI, as opposed to dozens/hundreds in the IL. Also, the USA Tour to which you refer was slap bang in the middle of the LOI season, whereas it was end-of-season for IL players. Moreover, he wouldn't even have taken any of the IL players he did (bar one or two?), had he not suffered well over a dozen withdrawals from players in England/Scotland.

As for your disgraceful slur that NW is only interested in "Protestant" players, this is utter garbage - and offensive garbage at that. For just looking at the IL players NW has called up and capped alone, these have included nearly as many RC's as Prods eg Marty Donnelly, Rory Patterson and Michael Gault.

Finally, it was NW who took another look at Paddy McCourt, six years after his debut, during which time he was discarded by McIlroy and ignored by Sanchez (a Catholic former LOI manager btw). Of course, as I have alluded above, it is open to question whether Paddy should be in the present NI squad. But I would point out that the three players who have kept him out of the side in his preferred position were first Keith Gillespie and Damien Johnson (a Catholic, btw), then Niall McGinn of Derry City and Glasgow Celtic, a former GAA=playing Catholic from Donaghmore.

Of course ignorance of the facts is one thing, but for you to "fill in the gaps" with malicious insinuations and accusations of your own imagination, only betrays who the real bigot is. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I don't for one moment believe that that that will even register with you........meanwhile back at the ranch, have we reached the conclusion that Worthington simply doesn't rate McCourt?

If so, I suppose its better to have an arse elbow disconnect as regards his football knowledge than be a bigot (which only Flexy has alleged and which I certainly don't subscribe to).

There's a bigger point out there which is why players like McCourt are no longer prized in the game, generally in favour of some honest grafter. Sometime soon someone is going to need to remember that football has entertainment at its heart and that a team of 11 identikit footballers isn't the ultimate aim of a manager.

[EalingGreen]

Talk about making a mountain of a molehill.So not even you can defend Flexy's bigoted rant, therefore you try to minimise its importance...

You're worse than he is.

[EalingGreen]

.......meanwhile back at the ranch, have we reached the conclusion that Worthington simply doesn't rate McCourt?

If so, I suppose its better to have an arse elbow disconnect as regards his football knowledge than be a bigot (which only Flexy has alleged and which I certainly don't subscribe to).

There's a bigger point out there which is why players like McCourt are no longer prized in the game, generally in favour of some honest grafter. Sometime soon someone is going to need to remember that football has entertainment at its heart and that a team of 11 identikit footballers isn't the ultimate aim of a managerhttp://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/serieaaaaargh/archive/2009/03/18/balotelli-italy-and-racism-on-a-collision-course.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/27/juventus-manchester-city-europa-mario-balotelli
As can be seen from above, Italian football is currently grappling with a problem of racism.
How would you like it if I came on this site and posted eg a clear accusation that Trappatoni and Tardelli etc were racist, on the basis that they hadn't picked Clinton Morrison, "supported" by a garbled mix of ignorance, distortions and downright lies?
For to make such a claim would be no more outrageous than to claim that Nigel Worthington must be sectarian etc because he declines to pick Paddy McCourt or James McClean, when anyone who knows anything about the game in NI would know that NW doesn't have a sectarian bone in his body..
Of course I understand that maybe you are not so outraged as I am that this sort of bile doesn't get Flexy banned etc - after all, it's not your team which he libelled.
But you must know that Sectarianism has long been the scourge of Ireland, and by extension, Irish football, most especially in NI.
Moreover, the recent poaching controversy etc risks exacerbating that scourge, at a time when many, many people in NI are working hard to try to eradicate it.
Therefore when I find my team/manager libelled like that by so loathesome a poster as Flexy, I will challenge it at every turn.
Otherwise other ignorant/prejudiced/gullible/feeble-minded readers may accord Flexy a degree of credibility which he most certainly does not deserve, thereby leading to the general impression that "nothing has changed at the IFA etc", when it most certainly has.
Which in turn risks leading to the situation whereby the FAI is seen as the Taig Association in Ireland, with the IFA being the Prod one.
And if you or other feel that that is some sort of overreaction, then tough titty - if you are not going to challenge overt bigots like Flexy, then you are going to have to put up with me fighting back against them.





There's a bigger point out there which is why players like McCourt are no longer prized in the game, generally in favour of some honest grafter. Sometime soon someone is going to need to remember that football has entertainment at its heart and that a team of 11 identikit footballers isn't the ultimate aim of a managerImo you're way behind the times with that question - though perhaps not in the way you intended.

I remember listeneing to a game on the radio some years back where the commentator observed that "For such a talented footballer, Player X certainly works hard", only to be corrected by the former footballer beside him: "He's such a talented footballer because he works so hard."

Such is the level of personal fitness in the game presently, plus the tactical sophistication (amongst the top teams, at least), that it doesn't matter how skillful a player, even team, is: if you lose the ball, it could take you ten minutes of chasing after it again, only getting it back when the other team has scored.

Therefore it is no longer a choice between being either a gifted ball player or a hardworking grafter; if you are not prepared to be both, then you aren't going to be either. (For an example of how a wonderfully entertaining player can also work his socks off, you only need look at the likes of Lionel Messi - often considered the "best" player in the world)

Which is only what Strachan, Mowbray and Lennon have concluded about McCourt for Celtic* and McIlroy, Sanchez and Worthington have concluded for NI**. Or maybe they're all wrong, too?

* - Or does anyone think that Celtic are so coming down with skilful ball players that they don't otherwise need McCourt?
** - Ditto NI

[OneRedArmy]

Won't somebody pleeeeeasssseeee think of the childrenOn the basis that
1) I'm not a mod
2) I clearly stated my disagreement with the allegation in question
3) The epic levels of guff you've subjected this site to on matters various (subjective assessment I know) rendering me somewhat immune to oververbose hyperbole

I'll focus on the second bit of your post



Imo you're way behind the times with that question - though perhaps not in the way you intended.

I remember listeneing to a game on the radio some years back where the commentator observed that "For such a talented footballer, Player X certainly works hard", only to be corrected by the former footballer beside him: "He's such a talented footballer because he works so hard."

Such is the level of personal fitness in the game presently, plus the tactical sophistication (amongst the top teams, at least), that it doesn't matter how skillful a player, even team, is: if you lose the ball, it could take you ten minutes of chasing after it again, only getting it back when the other team has scored.

Therefore it is no longer a choice between being either a gifted ball player or a hardworking grafter; if you are not prepared to be both, then you aren't going to be either. (For an example of how a wonderfully entertaining player can also work his socks off, you only need look at the likes of Lionel Messi - often considered the "best" player in the world)

Which is only what Strachan, Mowbray and Lennon have concluded about McCourt for Celtic* and McIlroy, Sanchez and Worthington have concluded for NI**. Or maybe they're all wrong, too?

* - Or does anyone think that Celtic are so coming down with skilful ball players that they don't otherwise need McCourt?
** - Ditto NII think you've reinforced my point. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "football is is what football does". By stating that you must have 10 workers to be successful in a modern football team because successful modern football teams have 10 workers.......... you see where I'm going here?
Its not a proving anything, its simply a self-reinforcing prophecy.

[Lim till i die]

McCourt probably doesn't get picked because Northern Ireland aren't good enough at international level to have any passengers on the field regardless of how fancy they are??

[Gather round]

McCourt probably doesn't get picked because Northern Ireland aren't good enough at international level to have any passengers on the field regardless of how fancy they are??

Have you seen Sleeping Brunty play recently?

I'd be delighted if McCourt challenged to play regularly. Unfortunately, throughout his career- whether at Rochdale, in the LoI or now Celtic reserves- he hasn't.

[Lim till i die]

I know very little about Northern Ireland other than that they wouldn't be great tbh!!

I was just wondering was that the most obvious reason. :)

[osarusan]

There's plenty of room in any team for lazy players if the positives of their inclusion outweigh the drawbacks. Inzaghi is probably the laziest player I've ever seen on a football pitch, but he was so good at what he did that he played for club and country.

McCourt is talented, but maybe Worthington has decided that what the side benefits in skill from his inclusion doesn't make up for what they lose in graft.

And like LTID, I don't really know enough about the team to say this must be the case, just speculating on reasons.

[Den Perry]

It is a matter of opinion whether McCourt merits a place on footballing grounds in the NI squad or not.

However, your clear assertion that NW is ignoring McCourt due to anti-Catholic prejudice, or is anti-LOI, is disgraceful, false, ignorant and almost certainly actionable.

In fact, it's so much so that it's difficult to know where to start, such is the amount of bile, misinformation and downright lies you've crammed into your post.

You refer to NW losing players to the ROI. Maybe so, but it's hardly down to his personal approach; on the contrary, it was he who persuaded Tony Kane and Michael O'Connor to return to NI (both Catholics, btw). Moreover, he has included Kane in his senior squad and awarded O'Connor all his 9 NI caps. Further, NW's latest young protege is Jonny Gorman, whom he persuaded to switch to NI from the ROI! (And seeing as Gorman qualified for the ROI via ancestry, his background may well be Catholic/Nationalist, not that anyone cares)

Now let's take James McClean (or ""McLean" as you insist on calling him) specifically. McClean has never played outside Derry City, yet NI picked him for their U-21's, when players with English/Scottish clubs etc were overlooked. Indeed, he was selected by Steve Beaglehole, appointed to the NI set-up by Nigel Worthington, who relies very heavily on his judgement.
You complain that fellow Milk Cup players have been capped before him. Let's make the comparison. Corry (not "Corey") Evans is Captain of MU Reserves and whilst that does not equate to their "second" team, it denotes a hell of a sight more potential than McClean. Moreover, he has been given a 1st team Squad Number, went on their pre-season tour to the USA (and played) and has been on the bench a couple of times in the EPL. Moreover, he can play several positions in defence or midfield. He is also a year younger than McClean.
As for Craig Cathcart, he has played a season and a half on loan in the Championship (Plymouth and Watford), before signing this season for Blackpool in the EPL, where he has played all their games to date. Despite that, he has yet to make his International debut, so you haven't even got that right.
And as for Josh Magennis (not "McGuines"), he has just signed for Aberdeen, where he has started the season in their 1st team. This follows on from having played a handful of games for Cardiff whilst still a teenager. He, too, is a year younger than McClean. As for his two NI caps, both of these were gained on a US Tour where, for contractual reasons, they were billed as "A" Internationals. NW, however, described it as a "development tour". Moreover, although I care not a jot otherwise, I suspect Magennis may actually be Catholic, considering his middle name is Brendan and I've seen him cross himself after scoring (for NI, btw). These are hardly conclusive, but I've never known any Prod called Brendan, nor any to cross himself.

Next up is your claim that because McClean is playing LOI, NW won't look at him. How do you square that with the fact of NW giving Niall McGinn his international debut whilst still with, ahem, Derry City? Or the fact that he wanted Alan Mannus (LOI) to join the US Tour in preference to Alan Blayney (IL), before Mannus turned him down? The simple fact is, there are only a handful of LOI players who qualify for NI, as opposed to dozens/hundreds in the IL. Also, the USA Tour to which you refer was slap bang in the middle of the LOI season, whereas it was end-of-season for IL players. Moreover, he wouldn't even have taken any of the IL players he did (bar one or two?), had he not suffered well over a dozen withdrawals from players in England/Scotland.

As for your disgraceful slur that NW is only interested in "Protestant" players, this is utter garbage - and offensive garbage at that. For just looking at the IL players NW has called up and capped alone, these have included nearly as many RC's as Prods eg Marty Donnelly, Rory Patterson and Michael Gault.

Finally, it was NW who took another look at Paddy McCourt, six years after his debut, during which time he was discarded by McIlroy and ignored by Sanchez (a Catholic former LOI manager btw). Of course, as I have alluded above, it is open to question whether Paddy should be in the present NI squad. But I would point out that the three players who have kept him out of the side in his preferred position were first Keith Gillespie and Damien Johnson (a Catholic, btw), then Niall McGinn of Derry City and Glasgow Celtic, a former GAA=playing Catholic from Donaghmore.

Of course ignorance of the facts is one thing, but for you to "fill in the gaps" with malicious insinuations and accusations of your own imagination, only betrays who the real bigot is. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I don't for one moment believe that that that will even register with you.

For somebody that cares "not a jot", you seem to know the religion of a lot of players.

Anyway, I don't think Mcourt is going to make much differace to a rubbish side like Northern Ireland

[Gather round]

..........

[Gather round]

I know very little about Northern Ireland other than that they wouldn't be great tbh!!

I was just wondering was that the most obvious reason. :)


Anyway, I don't think Mcourt is going to make much differace to a rubbish side like Northern Ireland

Here's Northern Ireland's admittedly modest record over the last two international tournaments. Look familiar?

P22-W10-D5-L7-Pts 35

[Lim till i die]

P22-W10-D5-L7-Pts 35

Looks like Limericks record!

I genuinely wasn't having a dig at the North, I wouldn't cross the road to watch the Republic.

[Gather round]

McCourt is talented, but maybe Worthington has decided that what the side benefits in skill from his inclusion doesn't make up for what they lose in graft.

And like LTID, I don't really know enough about the team to say this must be the case, just speculating on reasons

Indeed. No-one doubts McCourt has skill, but he just hasn't offered enough in club football at the higher levels. Of the players he might replace, Brunt's bone idle but plays regularly in the English Prem, McCann's a reliable grafter and even Healy is still just about able to live off his goals in Euro 2008.

[thischarmingman]

For to make such a claim would be no more outrageous than to claim that Nigel Worthington must be sectarian etc because he declines to pick Paddy McCourt or James McClean, when anyone who knows anything about the game in NI would know that NW doesn't have a sectarian bone in his body..
Of course I understand that maybe you are not so outraged as I am that this sort of bile doesn't get Flexy banned etc - after all, it's not your team which he libelled.
But you must know that Sectarianism has long been the scourge of Ireland, and by extension, Irish football, most especially in NI.
Moreover, the recent poaching controversy etc risks exacerbating that scourge, at a time when many, many people in NI are working hard to try to eradicate it.
Therefore when I find my team/manager libelled like that by so loathesome a poster as Flexy, I will challenge it at every turn.
Otherwise other ignorant/prejudiced/gullible/feeble-minded readers may accord Flexy a degree of credibility which he most certainly does not deserve, thereby leading to the general impression that "nothing has changed at the IFA etc", when it most certainly has.
Which in turn risks leading to the situation whereby the FAI is seen as the Taig Association in Ireland, with the IFA being the Prod one.
And if you or other feel that that is some sort of overreaction, then tough titty - if you are not going to challenge overt bigots like Flexy, then you are going to have to put up with me fighting back against them.

I don't disagree with you, but you're aware of the 'Report' button on each post?

[Den Perry]

So not even you can defend Flexy's bigoted rant, therefore you try to minimise its importance...

You're worse than he is.

You actually stated that I was a bigot on the thread entitled, Northern Ireland, in May 2009. Perhaps I should have called for you be banned, seeing as I took great offence. However, I am able to fight my own battles and don't need to go telling tales to moderators etc. If you don't like what people post, then p*ss off and don't post here.

[Gather round]

You actually stated that I was a bigot on the thread entitled, Northern Ireland, in May 2009. Perhaps I should have called for you be banned, seeing as I took great offence. However, I am able to fight my own battles and don't need to go telling tales to moderators etc. If you don't like what people post, then p*ss off and don't post here.

I think your call for an EG ban might have failed Den, not least because you said on that thread "However its what I perceive to be the bigotry of the vast majority of NI fans that causes my disike..." (which, needless to say, you failed to back up with any evidence whatever).

If you think NI's team is rubbish, fine, but start smearing all the fans and you need to do a bit better.

[EalingGreen]

On the basis that
1) I'm not a mod
2) I clearly stated my disagreement with the allegation in question
3) The epic levels of guff you've subjected this site to on matters various (subjective assessment I know) rendering me somewhat immune to oververbose hyperboleQuite simply, if someone posted a similarly bigoted rant about Trapatoni, there would be outrage (and understandably so). Instead it was about Worthington, so I chose to express my outrage; yours just happened to be the first post following the original (and also had a secondary point), which was why I responded to you.


I think you've reinforced my point. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "football is is what football does". By stating that you must have 10 workers to be successful in a modern football team because successful modern football teams have 10 workers.......... you see where I'm going here?
Its not a proving anything, its simply a self-reinforcing prophecy.In the old days, a player could get away with being lazy and unfit if he was also particularly skillful. Since then, players are overwhelmingly fitter, stronger and harder working.
My point was that that does not somehow make them any less skillful or attractive to watch etc.
In other words, I'd rather watch a skillful player working hard for 90 minutes than a skillful player working hard for 20 minutes, as do managers.
And just as a player will get the heave-ho if he doesn't work hard enough, so will he if he isn't skillful* enough, either.

* - There are other skills besides dribbling, such as tackling or heading etc.

[EalingGreen]

I know very little about Northern Ireland other than that they wouldn't be great tbh!!

I was just wondering was that the most obvious reason. :)The reason is actually rather more simple than that. It is now two years since McCourt signed for Celtic. Since then he has been managed by Strachan (who signed him), Mowbray (who inherited him) and Lennon (who played/trained alongside him).

In that time he has made just 5 SPL starts (none of them against Rangers btw). I'm not sure how many of those he has finished, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was none. He has also been left on the bench (or discarded entirely) for Celtic's big Cup and European games. Moreover, for all this talk about him being an "impact sub", he is invariably only gets brought on late from the bench, often the final of the three subs. This includes games such as Braga and Utrecht this season where Celtic fell behind and were desperate for a goal.

Why should this be? Quite simply, he is not fit or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard. Both Strachan and Mowbray publicly urged him to improve his fitness and I have no doubt that this only followed their telling him the same in private. Similarly NW has said that if/when he gets a run of games for Celtic, he will come back into consideration for NI.

There is no good physiological or medical reason why McCourt has not got fitter; therefore none of his managers can go back on earlier demands for him to get fit, otherwise less talented but harder-working players would either take the hump, or start slacking themselves. And that is poison to any team, never mind one like NI, where hard work and commitment are often all we have to offer.

But before anyone thinks I am in some way biased against Paddy, I can honestly say I would love nothing better than to see him in an NI shirt, turning it on and frightening defences. I just don't want then to see him turning off and frightening his own defence.

[EalingGreen]

I don't disagree with you, but you're aware of the 'Report' button on each post?Yes, but had I reported it and it was deleted, there will still have been people who have read and been influenced by it in the meantime.
Besides, I actually think it is better to have prejudice exposed to public criticism, rather than concealed from public view, to re-emerge in private, amongst "friends".
And if people think my replies are prejudiced etc, so be it - I'm happy to answer for them (unlike Flexy, who seems to have retreated from the scene).

[EalingGreen]

For somebody that cares "not a jot", you seem to know the religion of a lot of players.Yep, and here's how.

If a young NI player makes a bit of an impact and then gets a "Why don't we approach this guy?" thread opened for him on here, I assume he's Catholic.

But if there's no such thread, I assume he's a Prod.

Hasn't failed me yet...

[EalingGreen]

You actually stated that I was a bigot on the thread entitled, Northern Ireland, in May 2009.And I stand by it.


Perhaps I should have called for you be banned, seeing as I took great offence.Go ahead. If the Mods think it merits banning me, I'll "take my medicine".


However, I am able to fight my own battles and don't need to go telling tales to moderators etc.It seems we have one thing in common, then,


If you don't like what people post, then p*ss off and don't post here.And if you don't like what I post...

[OneRedArmy]

Yep, and here's how.

If a young NI player makes a bit of an impact and then gets a "Why don't we approach this guy?" thread opened for him on here, I assume he's Catholic.

But if there's no such thread, I assume he's a Prod.

Hasn't failed me yet...Kernaghan must have been a shock to the system so....

[Den Perry]

And I stand by it.

Go ahead. If the Mods think it merits banning me, I'll "take my medicine".

It seems we have one thing in common, then,

And if you don't like what I post...

But the thing is I didn't call for a ban. What you said about me was as bad as what was said about Worthington. You called me a bigot. However, as I stated above I didn't feel the need to contact the moderators.For you to call for a ban on the poster above smacks of hypocrisy.Idiot

[ifk101]

Yep, and here's how.

If a young NI player makes a bit of an impact and then gets a "Why don't we approach this guy?" thread opened for him on here, I assume he's Catholic.

But if there's no such thread, I assume he's a Prod.

Hasn't failed me yet...

.... but failing that they'll eventually get a letter from the IFA's community relations officer enquiring about their religion.

[EalingGreen]

But the thing is I didn't call for a ban.Neither did I.


What you said about me was as bad as what was said about Worthington. You called me a bigot.Gather Round having kindly pointed out the original offence, all I need explain is that when somebody makes a bigoted point, in my book that makes him/her a bigot - especially when he/she refuses to retract it when challenged.


However, as I stated above I didn't feel the need to contact the moderators.For you to call for a ban on the poster above smacks of hypocrisy.IdiotThere is a difference between feeling something ought in principle to be banned, and actually calling for it to be banned. I thought every idiot understood that.

P.S. I really don't want this all to be about me, or our little spat (I'm thinking of the children), so I'd be obliged if you either "put up" (to the Mods) or "shut up".

[EalingGreen]

Kernaghan must have been a shock to the system so....No greater shock than the invention of Time Travel*.

As I said, hasn't failed me yet...

* - Kernaghan played for you long before foot.ie was ever even heard of...

[EalingGreen]

.... but failing that they'll eventually get a letter from the IFA's community relations officer enquiring about their religion.I'm not on the CRO's mailing list. Nor, I suspect, are you.

[ifk101]

Why should this be? Quite simply, he is not fit or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard.

All well and good but qualified by the knowledge that a school boy has been included in the NI squad (at Paddy McCourt's expense?). Perhaps other issues at play have influenced Nigel's squad selection?


I'm not on the CRO's mailing list. Nor, I suspect, are you.

Thankfully.

[Not Brazil]

.... but failing that they'll eventually get a letter from the IFA's community relations officer enquiring about their religion.

That was the old one - Shane Maguire. A self confessed Republic Of Ireland fan.

He's long gone. Thankfully.

[ifk101]

Pass the buck.

[EalingGreen]

All well and good but qualified by the knowledge that a school boy has been included in the NI squad (at Paddy McCourt's expense?)Gorman has NOT been included at Paddy's expense. For one thing, he plays a different role and for another, NW is only bringing 20 to Slovenia, so he could have added Paddy as well.


Perhaps other issues at play have influenced Nigel's squad selection? Care to speculate on what those "other issues" might be?

Though before you answer, you might like to note what is being said about Paddy's fitness:

1. Here's Paddy himself (my emphasis):
"When I came in at first the questions were valid because I was struggling really badly but I've been here two years now and I feel great. .... I don't feel as if I'm taking a breather during games. It's just that sometimes when you play on the wing, you can't have the ball for 90 minutes. .... the only way I'll get better now is by playing 90 minutes on a regular basis. You can do all the running and afternoon sessions you want but unless you're playing regular 90-minute football you're not going to get any more match fit."

And as we have seen since then, Paddy has NOT been playing the full 90 (under Lennon), or anything like it.



2. Next, here is what NW had to say a couple of weeks ago about Paddy before he picked the Slovenia squad:
Nigel Worthington insists the “door is still open” for Paddy McCourt to return to the Northern Ireland fold.
Worthington told the Belfast Telegraph McCourt simply has to keep fit and keep playing and he will be in contention for the upcoming Euro 2012 qualifier away to Slovenia next month.

“The door is still open for Paddy,” he said.

“He was injured a lot over the last year with different bumps and things and that got in the way.

“We all know the quality he possesses but I've told Paddy that he has to work hard when he plays, as do all the players in the team, and he knows that.

“But if he gets a regular spot at Celtic then he will be in my plans.

“I brought the youngsters in to give them some experience, to give them a chance but the door is still open for everyone"

Remember, it was actually NW who recalled Paddy to the NI set-up and gave him his second and third caps, after EIGHT YEARS in the international wilderness under McIlroy and Sanchez...



3. And finally, here is what Ronnie Cully, the Glasgow Evening Times Chief Football Reporter had to say recently (my emphasis):

Mercurial Paddy McCourt must prove he’s fit to wear hooped jersey

Ronnie Cully

11 Aug 2010

Paddy McCourt could have been lining up against Wigan on Saturday, a prelude to facing Arsenal at the Emirates as Blackpool tried to find their feet in the Barlcays Premier League.

Instead, the enigmatic Northern Ireland midfielder will head north, not south, hoping he is fit enough to be included in the Celtic side who kick off their quest to regain the SPL title at Inverness.

The security of a two-year contract extension will help ward off any regrets McCourt may harbour about not embarking on another exciting new chapter to his stop-start career in England.

But it is about play – not pay – for the man who will be 27 by the time the next transfer window opens.

Neil Lennon has opened a window of opportunity to him to show he can make a serious contribution to Celtic’s fortunes. In the wake of Aiden McGeady’s £9.5million departure to Moscow, the position vacant sign hangs tantalisingly within reach.

But the Parkhead boss has simultaneously thrown down the gauntlet to McCourt to prove his unproven fitness does not continue to overshadow his undoubted ability.

It has been an unequal contest for the past two years, as only 20 appearances – and just four starts – for the club testifies.

When, in the summer of 2008, former Derry star McCourt was steered away from a move to West Brom in an eleventh-hour pincer movement which left then Baggies boss Tony Mowbray disappointed, the baggage came with him.

From the first training sessions he endured at Lennoxtown, core fitness – or the lack of it – was a genuine concern for sports scientists who struggled to understand how a man who had been a professional footballer since joining Rochdale in 2000 could lag so far behind his team-mates.

Gordon Strachan would watch him take one tentative step forward, in terms of gaining the necessary level of fitness, then two back as the strain of getting there took its toll, most often on his hamstrings.

It was an education to listen to Strachan as he watched McCourt in reserve team action. One one occasion, in a game at Lennoxtown, he predicted Paddy’s next mazy run and goal, then, equally accurately, warned you not to expect to see him involved again for about 20 minutes while he got his breath back.

Duly recovered, and right on cue, McCourt signalled his return to the match with a repeat of his opening dribble and goal before disappearing yet again into a fog of his own heavy breathing.

The admiration was matched by the exasperation as Strachan, and Mowbray after him, failed to find a way to accommodate such a physically-flawed genius in the Celtic side.

The frustration was exacerbated by McCourt’s ability to score wonder goals against the likes of Falkirk and St Mirren, enhancing his reputation among the support, but failing to rid himself of the fitness demons which made a run of games impossible.

Already this season, he has been listed among the injured as often as among the starters.

None of which deterred Ian Holloway from trying in January to sign McCourt for his promotion-chasing Blackpool side, or from coming back in for him in this window after their step up to the top flight was confirmed.

But, those efforts having been repelled, it is at Celtic that McCourt will be challenged once more to prove he is not only good enough, but physically strong enough to hack it.

The expected arrival of Liam Lawrence will provide more industry in the wide midfield positions, but it is to McCourt that Lennon will look to provide the magic which left with McGeady.

“I have been here two years now, and want to break into the team sooner rather than later,” he said with no sense of irony.

“I’ve already had a few years to find my feet and build myself up, so I am feeling ready to step into the team.

“It’s a fresh start when the new manager comes in, for everyone, not just me.

“Having had a couple of conversations with him over the past few weeks, I’m feeling very confident that I am going to have a good year and make a number of appearances.”

Given the track record of disappointment to date, it would have been easy for Lennon to sanction the player’s move out of the club and re-invest the £500,000 sale fee in someone whose return would be more predictable.

But the manager is pinning his colours to McCourt’s mast, as the new contract underlines, and the gesture is acting as an added incentive to make 2010-11 the season the fans – and not Paddy – are left breathless."

To date, Lennon has still only accorded one competitive start this season, against Inverness Caledonian Thistle. Unfortunately he had to come after an hour, having been injured in his post-goal celebration...

[Not Brazil]

Giving up his smoking habit might improve Patrick's fitness.

[EalingGreen]

Giving up his smoking habit might improve Patrick's fitness.Now, now NB, I'm sure it must be "other issues"...:rolleyes:

[Den Perry]

Neither did I.

Gather Round having kindly pointed out the original offence, all I need explain is that when somebody makes a bigoted point, in my book that makes him/her a bigot - especially when he/she refuses to retract it when challenged.

There is a difference between feeling something ought in principle to be banned, and actually calling for it to be banned. I thought every idiot understood that.

P.S. I really don't want this all to be about me, or our little spat (I'm thinking of the children), so I'd be obliged if you either "put up" (to the Mods) or "shut up".

and what's good for the goose.....

clown.

[ifk101]

Gorman has NOT been included at Paddy's expense. For one thing, he plays a different role and for another, NW is only bringing 20 to Slovenia, so he could have added Paddy as well.

Cost saving measure not bringing Paddy, eh? Those legal costs and former employee pay-offs are counting up.


Care to speculate on what those "other issues" might be?

Nigel's looking to tie young Gorman to NI.

[EalingGreen]

Cost saving measure not bringing Paddy, eh? Those legal costs and former employee pay-offs are counting up. If NW was really under cost-saving measures, I'm sure he could have trimmed his squad for the recent friendly vs Montenegro. Alternatively, he could have retained eg Norwood, Little and McGivern in the Senior squad for Slovenia, rather than returning them to the U-21 squad playing San Marino the same might, which could more easily have withstood trimming...


Nigel's looking to tie young Gorman to NI.Gorman already IS tied to us - under FIFA Article 18, a player may now only switch Associations once, and young Gorman has already represented another Association...:wink:

Anyhow, managed to come up with any other possible explanations for Paddy's exclusion by NW?

Perhaps one which you're afraid to spell out? :rolleyes:

[ifk101]

Gorman already IS tied to us - under FIFA Article 18, a player may now only switch Associations once, and young Gorman has already represented another Association...:wink:

What other association has he represented and when?


Anyhow, managed to come up with any other possible explanations for Paddy's exclusion by NW?

As opposed to quoting articles to document his current fitness?


Perhaps one which you're afraid to spell out? :rolleyes:

We're not of the same mindset. Thankfully.