British Security Theatre

[dahamsta]

Passed through Heathrow the other day, they took my photo at the first stage, while checking my boarding pass. I asked why and the girl said rather grumpily that it's for "domestic security". I wanted to bleat at her, but it wasn't worth missing my flight for. When did this start? How long is the photo kept for?

adam

[pineapple stu]

Been like that for a year or two. It's in the other London airports as well, I think. When they scan your boarding pass as you get on the plane, it brings up your picture again, so they can see that it's the same person who went through security and got on the plane.

No ideas how long the photo's kept for. Makes sense to delete it once the plane leaves, but could well be kept indefinitely in case they need to check up on you.

[Bluebeard]

I haven't seen it the past few times I have been through Luton (infuriatingly regular at this stage) Stan's Dead and Heathrow during the Summer. Granted, by the time that I get to the airport, never mind the check in desk, I am generally frazzled anyway, so I could have missed it. Is the camera hidden or is it in your face or what? I'm flying back again this weekend (Luton, mon amour), so I can be looking out for it.

[John83]

Once it's labelled as being for 'security', I'd be surprised if it's disposed of in a normal fashion. I'd google, looking for an answer, only I don't want to end up on a blacklist.

http://adholes.com/docs/06304102633-o.jpg

[pineapple stu]

Is the camera hidden or is it in your face or what?
When you go through security the first time - putting your bags through the x-ray machines - they ask you to look straight into a camera to take a picture.

[osarusan]

Passed through Heathrow the other day, they took my photo at the first stage, while checking my boarding pass. I asked why and the girl said rather grumpily that it's for "domestic security". I wanted to bleat at her, but it wasn't worth missing my flight for. When did this start? How long is the photo kept for?

adam
Pineapple Stu is right - it is used later to check the person getting on the plane is the same one that checked in. I asked what happened to the photos when I last came through Heathrow, and was told they were deleted after the flight had left. Now, whether that is true or not........

[don ramo]

yeah being in europe allows you to travel and work in other EU countries, (as it said on the add in the cinema last night), as long as you have regular security checks:rolleyes: i think they left that line out,

[dahamsta]

I didn't see anyone looking at a screen when I was heading onto the plane. Must pay more attention the next time I'm there, but it looks like more ridiculous security theatre to me. Like the dividers they put in the departure lounge, where if you actually wanted to get through you could just clamber over the Aer Lingus desks; and which also appear to block access to the toilets.

They were supposed to drop the shoes stupidity a few months ago too, but that's still going on, all over one demento that wasn't connected to anything or anyone.

adam

[brendy_éire]

They do it at Gatwick too, but say that they only keep your photo for 24 hours.

The shoe thing is infuriating though. Belfast City are the worst for it.

[John83]

...it looks like more ridiculous security theatre to me...
Is much of any of their security otherwise?


They were supposed to drop the shoes stupidity a few months ago too, but that's still going on, all over one demento that wasn't connected to anything or anyone.
I've found that to be really inconsistently enforced, to the extent that I now walk through with my shoes on unless explicitly told to take them off (which I did in the US recently, only for them to take the shoes apart: apparently mine don't X-ray well).

[OneRedArmy]

The photo thing at Heathrow and Gatwick is because they have stopped separating domestic and Common Travel Area (UK & Ireland) and international passengers at both those airports. Because it isn't currently a legal requirement to have photo ID for travel within the CTA (although some airlines do require a passport, it isn't actually legal requirement as for civil liberties purposes you can't really force people to get a passport solely for domestic flights), the potential exists for passengers to do a "swap" in the departures area and to take a different flight to that booked, with obvious security implication.

Therefore the photos are allegedly required.

I'd place it up there with the liquid requirements as a pointless control that doesn't actually reduce any risk but makes them look like they are making people more secure.

[John83]

I'd place it up there with the liquid requirements as a pointless control that doesn't actually reduce any risk but makes them look like they are making people more secure.
As Dahamsta said, security theatre.

[brendy_éire]

The photo thing at Heathrow and Gatwick is because they have stopped separating domestic and Common Travel Area (UK & Ireland) and international passengers at both those airports.

But most airports don't seperate these passengers though. Doesn't happen in Dublin, for instance. But these airports don't feel it necessary to take your photo at security.

[sligoman]

Had this done in Gatwick over 2 years ago so it's been on the go a while.

[dahamsta]

That's kind of the point though brendy_éire, Dublin is in Ireland and not the UK, which has taken it's obsession with "security" to ridiculous levels. The CCTV camera to solved crime ratio of 1000:1 is a another good example.

On a point of pedantry, I'm pretty sure there's no way of flying into the UK from Ireland without presenting a photo ID.

Last time I was in Heathrow was April '08 and it wasn't there then. They were still refurbishing T1 at that point though.

adam

[A N Mouse]

I actually quite like the photo one. Mainly for show, and bit worried about their data retention policies. Think it was Gatwick - there's no separation of passengers boarding and disembarking or by travel area. They take your photo when you enter the area from airside or groundside and check you're exiting where you should be. Saw one guy in the uk and ireland queue told he would have to go through customs.

Hate the fill in you passport details in advance.

Best one is the fingerprint scanner. Scan at check in. Scan to get to passport control, before normal checks. Scan at boarding gate

[Bluebeard]

I actually quite like the photo one. Mainly for show, and bit worried about their data retention policies. Think it was Gatwick - there's no separation of passengers boarding and disembarking or by travel area. They take your photo when you enter the area from airside or groundside and check you're exiting where you should be. Saw one guy in the uk and ireland queue told he would have to go through customs.

Hate the fill in you passport details in advance.

Best one is the fingerprint scanner. Scan at check in. Scan to get to passport control, before normal checks. Scan at boarding gate

Am I that innocent looking? I've never had any of this and I've flown between Britain and Ireland and the continent a couple of times - out of the EU on one occasion - and once intercontinentally since Easter.

The trip to the US was the only one where I'd to fill in passport details (online) or get a fingerprint and eye scan (in the US). Was this in a London airport?

[superfrank]

They had been doing it in Aberdeen for a few years but it's not always in service.

[A N Mouse]

Am I that innocent looking? I've never had any of this and I've flown between Britain and Ireland and the continent a couple of times - out of the EU on one occasion - and once intercontinentally since Easter.

The trip to the US was the only one where I'd to fill in passport details (online) or get a fingerprint and eye scan (in the US). Was this in a London airport?

Think France and Spain, maybe a few others, have started the passport in advance thing.

I've only encountered the photos in gatwick, or was it heathrow.

And can't remember where the fingerprint thing was, somewhere in the former eastern block (Prague?), might have been a bit hungover. But the place was so new there was still stickers on everything :)

[dahamsta]

Fingerprinting is particular to the US, you can't get into the country without providing one; it's why I won't travel there at the moment. I don't have anything to hide, but given their propensity to sell and even give away their own citizen's data, I don't trust them with mine.

[OneRedArmy]

Am I that innocent looking? I've never had any of this and I've flown between Britain and Ireland and the continent a couple of times - out of the EU on one occasion - and once intercontinentally since Easter.

The trip to the US was the only one where I'd to fill in passport details (online) or get a fingerprint and eye scan (in the US). Was this in a London airport?The photo check has been in place at Gatwick for at least 2 years and at Heathrow since T1 was reconfigured earlier this year. It only applies to UK & Ireland departures.

APIS (advance passenger information) is currently required by Spain and the US but the Brits are clamouring to introduce it too.

Shoe-screening in the UK is now a secondary check that only needs to be done on a random sample of passengers. It's very easy when you enter the queue to work out which lanes are shoes off at any given time and choose accordingly. Therefore illustrating what a moronic process it is.

The UK authorities also recently did a complete about turn on whether laptops need to be in or out.

The whole process is a farce. The 9-11 hijackers took over planes with a pair of boxcutters. I frequently travel with razor blades in my carry on which I could fashion into a weapon if I so chose.

I could, with my accomplices, also carry on significant quantities of liquid explosives in 100ml bottles, along with battery detanators.

Terrorism is more about engendering a sense of fear rather than purely the loss of lives. On that score, the terrorists are winning IMO.

[dahamsta]

Terrorism is more about engendering a sense of fear rather than purely the loss of lives. On that score, the terrorists are winning IMO.Labour == Terrorists. :)

[osarusan]

Off Topic, but along the lines of security only for show - I was going through Narita airport (Tokyo) a few years ago, and had my razor blades taken off me. Faie enough, I thought, they could possibly be used as a weapon.....then the security staff noticed I had a bottle of Shochu (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dch%C5%AB) in my checked luggage, and told me to put it into my carry-on so it would be less likely to get broken. Now, which is more dangerous, a tiny razor blade, or the jagged glass edge of a broken liquor bottle?

[pineapple stu]

Sure I collect those little 3D crystal blocks, and have brought them home in hand luggage. I was even stopped once and asked what it was; once they saw it was only a cube piece of glass with pointy edges, they let me on. Couldn't carry 100ml+ of explosives in it, so it wasn't dangerous.

[dahamsta]

And that's what happens when you pay peanuts. They have a list and they stick to the list no matter how nonsensical the situation. Like the guy in Heathrow yesterday with a nearly empty tube of suntan oil trying to explain to the idiot on the front line that the number on the container might not equate to the contents. The guy just blanked him, because he's either underpaid or a moron; the security of their nation is that important.

[Wangball]

A few years back, post 9/11 I was flying to Atlanta in the US with my then girlfriend, she has a British Passport and mine is obviously Irish, we were going through the passport control in Atlanta and my girlfriend went through first and me second, when he asked the purpose of my visit I said Holiday and he asked if I was alone I said no, and that he had just spoken to my girlfriend, this guy then looked at me and straight faced asked, if she's your girlfriend then why do you have different passports! I was a bit taken aback and kind of sarcastically answered that we have different passports because we're from different countries, I then said that I bet my passport was different to his too....he got think and I just apologised and finally got through, then we got to the second security check in the airport and the guy there made me take all of the contents of my washbag out and spray something from each bottle on my own arm...worst airport experience ever!

[Mr A]

In fairness the regulations are clear- if the container is for over 100ml it's not allowed. Otherwise you'd end up arguing over whether something is 90ml or 110ml. It may be a stupid system- but what made the guy in the queue think an exception should be made just for him?

Anyway, a lot of the security stuff is clearly ********. I previously carried a screwdriver on to a plane inadvertently despite the many checks done- I hate to think of the hassle I'd have had if it had been found!

[dahamsta]

This is why I didn't want to kick up a fuss in Heathrow about the photo. Because they're underpaid - or morons, let's not let that category slip away - they get thick if you slip away from their script in any way, shape or form; and they get petty if you present any sort of resistance whatsoever. Just asking a question is liable to get you sidelined.

[thischarmingman]

This is why I didn't want to kick up a fuss in Heathrow about the photo. Because they're underpaid - or morons, let's not let that category slip away - they get thick if you slip away from their script in any way, shape or form; and they get petty if you present any sort of resistance whatsoever. Just asking a question is liable to get you sidelined.

Just like bouncers.

[Wangball]

Just like bouncers.

Its high visibility vest & walkie talkie syndrome

[Macy]

Last time I was going through Gatwick, they were taking a snow globe, brought in the feckin airport irrc, off a 2 year old (que much snots and tears, the heartless bitches)...

It's been a while since I flew into Manch (ferry is far less hassle, start to finish and just as quick) to know whether they do it there, but the last times through Heathrow and Gatwick they were doing it - just seemed like another excuse to mess people around.

[dahamsta]

In fairness the regulations are clearThey are, and they're idiotic, which was my point.

[boovidge]

Passed through Heathrow the other day, they took my photo at the first stage, while checking my boarding pass. I asked why and the girl said rather grumpily that it's for "domestic security". I wanted to bleat at her, but it wasn't worth missing my flight for. When did this start? How long is the photo kept for?

adam

thoughtcrime

[Wangball]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8303983.stm

Anybody see this? I personally would rather the pat down!