View Full Version : League Cup shenanigans
BohDiddley
19/09/2009, 10:26 AM
Nutsy on the Dundalk game, but also (from 3 mins) on FAI messing re the League Cup Final venue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNLLDYKoHVc)
Bohs agreed to play it in Waterford on the understanding that there would be some accommodation with respect to fixture congestion.
Couldn't be blamed if he fields the A Team as a result.
Dodge
19/09/2009, 10:56 AM
Not like Fenlon to moan is it?
Duffman
19/09/2009, 10:58 AM
Can't believe that I am supporting him but he does have a point. If they were given assurances that they wouldn't have to travel to Derry and now they are being forced to then its out of order.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 11:06 AM
Nutsy on the Dundalk game, but also (from 3 mins) on FAI messing re the League Cup Final venue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNLLDYKoHVc)
Bohs agreed to play it in Waterford on the understanding that there would be some accommodation with respect to fixture congestion.
Couldn't be blamed if he fields the A Team as a result.
That's right get your excuses in early. :p
Why should bohs be treated an differently than anyone else? The only reason this is an issue is because of who they play in the two fixtures after, and what a defeat in either/both would mean.
BohDiddley
19/09/2009, 11:13 AM
That's right get your excuses in early. :p
Why should bohs be treated an differently than anyone else? The only reason this is an issue is because of who they play in the two fixtures after, and what a defeat in either/both would mean.
The only reason it's an issue is that an undertaking was given and promptly reneged on.
Bohs have to play three games in a week. In the circumstances, would you play your full squad in Waterford?
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 11:18 AM
The only reason it's an issue is that an undertaking was given and promptly reneged on.
Bohs have to play three games in a week. In the circumstances, would you play your full squad in Waterford?
http://extratime.ie/fixtures/detail/102/111/11225/1/
BohDiddley
19/09/2009, 11:31 AM
Did you have an arrangement with FAI to re-schedule games?
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 11:39 AM
Did you have an arrangement with FAI to re-schedule games?
Games surrounding league cup final 2008 & 2009
Derry 2008
H Drogheda Utd Eircom League Premier Division 2008 Fri 19 Sep 08
A St Patricks Athletic Setanta Sports Cup 2008 Tue 23 Sep 08
A Wexford Youths Eircom League Cup 2008 Sat 27 Sep 08
H Cork City Ford FAI Cup 2008 Tue 30 Sep 08
H Sligo Rovers Eircom League Premier Division 2008 Fri 3 Oct 08
H Linfield Setanta Sports Cup 2008 Mon 6 Oct 08
A Bray Wanderers Eircom League Premier Division 2008 Fri 10 Oct 08
H Cork City Setanta Sports Cup 2008 Tue 14 Oct 08
A Bohemians Eircom League Premier Division 2008 Fri 17 Oct 08
Bohemian 2009
H Dundalk League of Ireland Premier Division Fri 18 Sep 09
A Waterford United EA Sports Cup Sat. 26 Sep 09
A Derry City League of Ireland Premier Division Tue 29 Sep 09
A Shamrock Rovers League of Ireland Premier Division Fri 02 Oct 09
H Coleraine Setanta Sports Cup Tue 06 Oct 09
H Drogheda United League of Ireland Premier Division Fri 09 Oct 09
A Cork City League of Ireland Premier Division Fri 16 Oct 09
sonofstan
19/09/2009, 11:49 AM
So? Derry had two home games immediately after.... we have to go to Derry on Tues. big difference.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 11:55 AM
So? Derry had two home games immediately after.... we have to go to Derry on Tues. big difference.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=wexford+to+derry&ie=UTF-8&output=html&oi=nojs
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=html&hl=en&f=d&source=s_d&saddr=waterford&daddr=derry&btnG=Get+Directions
Google maps makes it about half an hour :o
Derry
19/09/2009, 12:33 PM
The only reason it's an issue is that an undertaking was given and promptly reneged on.
Bohs have to play three games in a week. In the circumstances, would you play your full squad in Waterford?
Why should they have been given insurances. It's only a mid week game, which ALL teams have to cope with. The tie with Derry City will have to be played mid week, so what's the big deal. I've never came a cross a club that is filled so much with their own importance. Waterford is just 2 hours travel, Derry has to travel that for their Derby game. Fenlon stop your whinging, and now that the treble has ridden into the sunset, get on with your tin pot cup.:) His comment in calling Rovers, 'that mob' shows how small a man he really US.
refjohn
19/09/2009, 12:41 PM
So? Derry had two home games immediately after.... we have to go to Derry on Tues. big difference.
Derry had to come home from Wexford. How much further is Waterford to Derry compare to Wexford to Derry? After all that is the comparison? And Derry dont have the luxury during season of playing 6 away games within the same city
BohDiddley
19/09/2009, 1:01 PM
Why should they have been given insurances
The issue here is not why assurances were given, but that they were not honoured. I'm sure the why and wherefores were discussed before the arrangement to play the final away.
The issue here is not why assurances were given, but that they were not honoured. I'm sure the why and wherefores were discussed before the arrangement to play the final away.
So they are saying that they wouldn't have played the final in Waterford unless they got an assurance that they wouldn't have to play Derry in mid week. Why the f*** should they have been given an assurance for that. They had some brass neck asking for it in the 1st place. And so far we only have wee Fenlon's word on that. Like has been pointed out before, Bohs time travelling is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy smaller than the likes of Derry, as every away game can be anything from 2 hours, up till 7 hours. Yet Boh's longest journey is only 3 hours, In 2 sets of games in the league at present, Derry travel approx 31 hours while Bohs travel approx 13. Now they are complaining about having to travel 5 hours out of a total of 3 games. My bleeding heart goes out to them.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 1:43 PM
The issue here is not why assurances were given, but that they were not honoured. I'm sure the why and wherefores were discussed before the arrangement to play the final away.
Arrr, shiver me timbers.
Seriously, what is the issue here?
a) fixture congestion
b) travelling
c) assurances from the FAI
a - that's never happened before :o
b - bit rich coming from a Dublin club
c - I'd be fairly supprised if 'assurances' were given. More likely is bohs asked and were told we'll see what happens with the cup replays. If 'assurances' were given then this raises the question in my op of why bohs should be treated differently than anyone else?
The powers that be asked us to wait and after getting knocked out of the cup find there's no date available.
The fact of the matter is there are five teams (most of them playing 2 games a week for most of this month) in the setanta cup - and if more than one of them were still in the FAI cup it'd be worse. Games are being rearranged left right and centre and the only alternative would be to fit the fixture into the last two weeks of the season - which would only serve to further feck things up if in the event of sligo needing another cup replay.
File this one under conspiracy theories.
The issue here is not why assurances were given, but that they were not honoured. I'm sure the why and wherefores were discussed before the arrangement to play the final away.
wasting your time trying to make a point regarding Bohs here BD. Its just big bad bohs being unreasonable again.
Self imposed boycott on the way..? :p
sonofstan
19/09/2009, 2:34 PM
Well, if being so far away from everyone else is killing Derry fans so much, they could always rejoin the IL.
Self imposed exile on the way..?
que..?
I think we've all seen how difficult boycotts are to enforce on foot.ie - a self imposed exile might be easier. But thats for another day...
Well, if being so far away from everyone else is killing Derry fans so much, they could always rejoin the IL.
We're not the ones bitching about travelling midweek.......
que..?
I think we've all seen how difficult boycotts are to enforce on foot.ie - a self imposed exile might be easier. But thats for another day...
:o:o
Post amended.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 2:55 PM
wasting your time trying to make a point regarding Bohs here BD. Its just big bad bohs being unreasonable again.
In this instance it is being unreasonable.
What you're asking is Derry go two weeks without a game - then go the month of October playing 2 games a week.
We all know the reason is not wanting to play the 2nd and 3rd placed teams in the space of 4 days. Just come out and say it.
Look at Derry and Sligo's fixtures for October. Ask you self where will this, Derry v Bohs, match fit in? Given silgo still have to fit in a cup semi, and the possibility of a replay with knock on effects.
Quadruple1928
19/09/2009, 3:08 PM
So they are saying that they wouldn't have played the final in Waterford unless they got an assurance that they wouldn't have to play Derry in mid week. Why the f*** should they have been given an assurance for that. They had some brass neck asking for it in the 1st place. And so far we only have wee Fenlon's word on that. Like has been pointed out before, Bohs time travelling is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy smaller than the likes of Derry, as every away game can be anything from 2 hours, up till 7 hours. Yet Boh's longest journey is only 3 hours, In 2 sets of games in the league at present, Derry travel approx 31 hours while Bohs travel approx 13. Now they are complaining about having to travel 5 hours out of a total of 3 games. My bleeding heart goes out to them.
I'll break it down for you, the FAI(Delaney) wanted the LC final in Waterford! So their was no coin toss on the understanding Bohs wouldn't have to go to Derry on the tuesday. The reason Bohs asked for the game to not be on the tuesday, was the FAI asked Bohs to play the final in Waterford. The only reason Bohs agreed to the final in Waterford was the FAI said they would not have to go to to derry on the tuesday. Did you understand that?.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 3:12 PM
I'll break it down for you, the FAI(Delaney) wanted the LC final in Waterford! So their was no coin toss on the understanding Bohs wouldn't have to go to Derry on the tuesday. So, the reason Bohs asked for the game to not be on the tuesday, was the FAI asked Bohs to play it in Waterford. Did you understand that?.
And a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper its written.
Do you understand that?
the more i read on this the more it seems that Derry City might be playing hardball and maybe the FAI simply cant accommodate the request as Derry have refused to move it. It wouldnt surprise me given that Derry have had issues on this subject over the last couple of seasons (possibly where they werent accommodated).
Anyway ANMouse, yes we do not want to play a cup final and 2 top of the table clashes in the space of 7 days. Its a big ask for any team.
Furthermore, the FAI gave us an assurance that this would not happen (in exhange to agreement that Waterford would be the venue) and the Derry game would be rescheduled. This assurance is being reneged upon.
Is it any wonder we are beig "unreasonable"?
Quadruple1928
19/09/2009, 3:16 PM
And a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper its written.
Do you understand that?
A verbal agreement is legally binding actually.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 3:28 PM
the more i read on this the more it seems that Derry City might be playing hardball and maybe the FAI simply cant accommodate the request as Derry have refused to move it. It wouldnt surprise me given that Derry have had issues on this subject over the last couple of seasons (possibly where they werent accommodated).
Anyway ANMouse, yes we do not want to play a cup final and 2 top of the table clashes in the space of 7 days. Its a big ask for any team.
Furthermore, the FAI gave us an assurance that this would not happen (in exhange to agreement that Waterford would be the venue) and the Derry game would be rescheduled. This assurance is being reneged upon.
Is it any wonder we are beig "unreasonable"?
While Bohs may have come to an understanding with the FAI - more fool them - in the cold light of day the request simply cannot be accommodated. Why should Derry be punished for Bohs success?
The alternative to playing at the end of September is playing end of October or first week of November - before the final set of games (again this would depend on the Derry Sligo game not being affected by their cup match). And I don't think anyone would want to fit an extra game into the last week of the season. Would Bohs want to travel to the Brandywell on the 3rd Nov knowing the title depended on them getting a result?
it sounds like my suspicions are bang on the money then.
hoops1
19/09/2009, 3:33 PM
Haha This is just Nutsy using something to motivate his players. He probably feels as I do that the league will decided by that game in Derry and is trying the us against the world trick
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 3:36 PM
A verbal agreement is legally binding actually.
That maybe so, but Pat Fenlon clearly stated they were told to wait on the outcome of the cup matches before a decision was reached.
BohDiddley
19/09/2009, 3:51 PM
... what is the issue here?
a) fixture congestion
b) travelling
c) assurances from the FAI
a - that's never happened before :o
b - bit rich coming from a Dublin club
c - I'd be fairly supprised if 'assurances' were given. More likely is bohs asked and were told we'll see what happens with the cup replays. If 'assurances' were given then this raises the question in my op of why bohs should be treated differently than anyone else?
Er, that would be C, Bob.
Let's try to focus, shall we? An agreement was made and broken. That has nothing to do with whether an agreement should or should not have been made in the first place.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 4:00 PM
Er, that would be C, Bob.
Let's try to focus, shall we? An agreement was made and broken. That has nothing to do with whether an agreement should or should not have been made in the first place.
So the breaking of this 'agreement' has Pat Fenlon, mainly, worried about 'the Health and Safety of the players'?
This is because:
a) an agreement was broken by the bad, bad, fai. Which raises serious concerns about the players' mental wellbeing
b) they have to do a bit of travelling
c) they have to play three games in the space of a week
d) the results of those games will have a big impact on the outcome of the season
Ayone want to throw up an aul poll?
blue til i die
19/09/2009, 4:01 PM
IF the FAI made the agreement with bohs, then bohs shouldnt have to go to Derry on the Tuesday.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 4:24 PM
IF the FAI made the agreement with bohs, then bohs shouldnt have to go to Derry on the Tuesday.
Well then sure, when would suit you Bohs? Just we're a little busy up to 'bout November 6th.
blue til i die
19/09/2009, 4:39 PM
Well then sure, when would suit you Bohs? Just we're a little busy up to 'bout November 6th.
Its not a point of when it is, where it is or who it is, if the FAI made the agreement, they should honour it.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 5:07 PM
Its not a point of when it is, where it is or who it is, if the FAI made the agreement, they should honour it.
I think it is exactly a case of when it is, where it is and who it is.
Would they have asked for a fixture change - to be considered - if it was at Dalymount? They didn't have another game for a week? Their next opponents were Drogheda? Or the match in question was against Bray?
Once the fixture list has been agreed upon it is not, generally, within the gift of the FAI to magnanimously change fixtures.
If they did so, on this occasion, they would also - rightly imo - stand to be accused of handing Bohs an advantage in the title race. If Bohs got their way they'd have a week off before they played their nearest title rivals, and play the, current, 3rd placed team in their 8th game of 9 in 27 days.
The fai didn't do anything for shels, drogs, derry or cork re fixtures. So why start handing advantages to teams in title races now? Because they agreed to switch the league cup final to the venue that'll probably attract more support?
blue til i die
19/09/2009, 5:13 PM
I think it is exactly a case of when it is, where it is and who it is.
Would they have asked for a fixture change - to be considered - if it was at Dalymount? They didn't have another game for a week? Their next opponents were Drogheda? Or the match in question was against Bray?
Once the fixture list has been agreed upon it is not, generally, within the gift of the FAI to magnanimously change fixtures.
If they did so, on this occasion, they would also - rightly imo - stand to be accused of handing Bohs an advantage in the title race. If Bohs got their way they'd have a week off before they played their nearest title rivals, and play the, current, 3rd placed team in their 8th game of 9 in 27 days.
The fai didn't do anything for shels, drogs, derry or cork re fixtures. So why start handing advantages to teams in title races now? Because they agreed to switch the league cup final to the venue that'll probably attract more support?
But that still isnt relevant, if the FAI made the agreement with Bohs, which Bohs claim they did, then they should honour it, simple as!!
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 5:22 PM
But that still isnt relevant, if the FAI made the agreement with Bohs, which Bohs claim they did, then they should honour it, simple as!!
I agree.
But, the FAI are unable to make such an 'agreement' as claimed here. They could only agree to take it into consideration. As it required the consent of another party, and impacted, possibly adversely, the interests of several others.
pineapple stu
19/09/2009, 6:21 PM
Can people calm down a little bit?
If quadruple's post (http://foot.ie/forums/showpost.php?p=1235042&postcount=23) is correct, and there was a gentleman's agreement in place which was reneged on, Bohs are entitled to be annoyed. For those opposing Bohs' position, starting by (properly) refuting that post is the place to start. Getting aggressive will get nowhere, on either side of the debate.
blue til i die
19/09/2009, 6:32 PM
The fact that we dont know whether its true or not, makes it impossible to go for either side of the argument at the end of the day.
For all we know, Bohs are making this up? (not that thats what i'm implying)
So the breaking of this 'agreement' has Pat Fenlon, mainly, worried about 'the Health and Safety of the players'?
This is because:
a) an agreement was broken by the bad, bad, fai. Which raises serious concerns about the players' mental wellbeing
b) they have to do a bit of travelling
c) they have to play three games in the space of a week
d) the results of those games will have a big impact on the outcome of the season
Ayone want to throw up an aul poll?
Do you really like quiz shows or something? why are ye turning everything into one
The FAI wanted to play the final in Waterford... because Bohs accommodated this the Fai agreed to accommodate Bohs by agreeing that they wouldnt have to travel Dublin-Waterford-Dublin-Derry within a couple of days. now i dont care how far Derry have to travel to matches or whatever else you fancy getting outraged about, the fact is that while you think there is some conspiracy theory and Bohs are being 'helped out' by the FAI the oposite is actually the case as Bohs are losing out here because they agreed to the final in waterford. Bohs could have let the coin be tossed and had they won the would have only had to travel to Derry.
That is the point that has been made its not a competition to see who travels the most or any sort of conspiracy theory.
shantykelly
19/09/2009, 7:11 PM
question - was it within the remit of the FAI to give assurances to Bohs without first speaking to Derry?
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 7:11 PM
Do you really like quiz shows or something? why are ye turning everything into one
The FAI wanted to play the final in Waterford... because Bohs accommodated this the Fai agreed to accommodate Bohs by agreeing that they wouldnt have to travel Dublin-Waterford-Dublin-Derry within a couple of days. now i dont care how far Derry have to travel to matches or whatever else you fancy getting outraged about, the fact is that while you think there is some conspiracy theory and Bohs are being 'helped out' by the FAI the oposite is actually the case as Bohs are losing out here because they agreed to the final in waterford. Bohs could have let the coin be tossed and had they won the would have only had to travel to Derry.
That is the point that has been made its not a competition to see who travels the most or any sort of conspiracy theory.
What evidence is there of an agreement, other than Pat Fenlon's comments?
Since when were the FAI able to make such agreements, magnanimously, for others?
Bohs are not losing out in all this - they simply thought they could have their cake and eat it. Again the FAI could only be asked to move the Derry game (as I believe Derry have in the past wrt the LC final), in return the FAI could only try to accommodate them.
Are you all really that sold on Pat Fenlon's Handheld Transportable Garden Excavation Implements Emporium, that not one of you find his comments on the H&S of his players bizzare? Will any of you, other SkStu care to admit the issue at the heart of the matter:
Haha This is just Nutsy using something to motivate his players. He probably feels as I do that the league will decided by that game in Derry and is trying the us against the world trick
pineapple stu
19/09/2009, 7:16 PM
Bohs are not losing out in all this - they simply thought they could have their cake and eat it.
If they forewent the draw and the chance of playing at home, then they clearly are losing out.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 7:23 PM
If they forewent the draw and the chance of playing at home, then they clearly are losing out.
More conjecture, on my part, but believe they are of the opinion that their fans won't turn out in force for the 'mickey mouse cup'. Taking their chances on a bigger crowd in Waterford.
pineapple stu
19/09/2009, 7:27 PM
Irrelevant. If Bohs forewent the possibility of a home draw, they lost out. It's not as if Waterford have massive crowds this season either.
A N Mouse
19/09/2009, 7:38 PM
Irrelevant. If Bohs forewent the possibility of a home draw, they lost out. It's not as if Waterford have massive crowds this season either.
pertains to motive your honour
sligoman
19/09/2009, 7:48 PM
they simply thought they could have their cake and eat it.Can't blame them for that...what use is having a cake and not being able to eat it?
pineapple stu
19/09/2009, 7:49 PM
The original phrase is "Eat your cake and have it", which actually makes sense. "Have your cake and eat it" is, apparently, just easier to say.
centre mid
19/09/2009, 8:15 PM
Let them eat cake, for there is no bread.
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