League Cup shenanigans

[SkStu]

The Waterford marketing team kicks into action ;)

no, seriously, i wouldnt be upset if we didnt field a full strength team (as it wouold serve the FAI right) but it is up to the club and Fenlon to do what they feel is best. It also is good for the competition and the Waterford fans to have a decent game and not have our reserves out.

(i did also say in the same post "if thats what ends up happening")

[blue til i die]

The Waterford marketing team kicks into action ;)


:confused: :confused:

[SkStu]

ah it doesnt matter. :o

[Steodonn]

:confused: :confused:
How did you not get that :P


The full bohs squad will travel for game, guaranteed!

Possible not true he saying it just marketing

Anyway don't really care about the cup looking more forward to the day out than the match but winning would be nice. Pat should play the A-team and see what happens bring on 3 first team players if we are losing. Hopefully I will bwe wrong and we will get a great game that will live in the memory for years to come :P

haha

[blue til i die]

ah it doesnt matter. :o

Why wont you just explain it?

Does that mean i win? :D

[SkStu]

id rather leave a bad joke linger like an eggy fart than have to explain it... :o

of course you win!

[MariborKev]

Either way, it is just a further attempt to muddy the waters of what is a very legitimate complaint from Bohs regarding the way the FAI has acted. Ill leave it at that.

Muddy the waters?

If Bohs were certain that they had a "deal" from the FAI, why did they feel the need to contact Derry independently to ask them to change the date?

That's a fairly straightforward question. As others have said, if fans on here know the process for fixture rearrangements then board members should.

[Scrufil]

I don't see many Waterford fans complaining about the fact that they are pushing for promotion and have had their fixture pushed back too. All's I see here is a level playing field and as far as I can see by the reported comments of Fenlon he deserves here and now to be fined by the FAI for demeaning a competition.

[dong]

Apologies to Waterford in all this as they will be the innocent victims in all this but im not surprised that we wont field a full strength team after this shambolic treatment from the FAI. I fully support Fenlons decision to field our young players if thats what ends up happening. The inability of the large group of vociferous Derry fans to first grasp the point and then debate it smacks of wummery but then empty vessels make the loudest noise.

It appears to me from reading through what went on in the media and on this thread that its the Bohemians fans that are unable/unwilling to grasp the point.
I have to agree with the Derry fans on this and, believe me, that wouldn't come naturally to me!

[blue til i die]

I don't see many Waterford fans complaining about the fact that they are pushing for promotion and have had their fixture pushed back too. All's I see here is a level playing field and as far as I can see by the reported comments of Fenlon he deserves here and now to be fined by the FAI for demeaning a competition.

I understand the whole going to derry problem, but we've played a shíte load of games too. Munster cup, ea cup, fai cup and league. We've only played 36 games so far.

I'm sure bohs have played more, but they are a full time outfit and will have expected to have played as many.

[Scrufil]

Oh I also forgot to mention that Waterford and not Bohs are the ones going for a treble this season!

[Acornvilla]

quadrouple actually!

[Scrufil]

Yeah but I can't spell that word!;)

[VinnyDCFC]

From the 'Derry Journal' today



McDaid won't bow to Bohs

Published Date: 22 September 2009


DERRY CITY chairman Mr. Pat McDaid has revealed the Brandywell club stood firm over its decision to stage the re-scheduled Premier Division clash with Bohemians next Tuesday night despite protests from 'Gypsies' boss, Pat Fenlon.

The Dubliner had suggested he was given assurances from Abbottstown that the fixture, originally scheduled to be played this Friday, would be re-set to accommodate Bohemians’ involvement in Saturday’s EA Cup Final against Waterford United at the Regional Sports Complex.

However, in a direct response to Fenlon’s comments the FAI yesterday released a statement denying there was any such assurance regarding the re-scheduled game and confirmed the match will go ahead next Tuesday night as planned.

With the onus on the home side to reschedule the fixture, Mr McDaid revealed that Derry City had refused to move the game from next Tuesday night and the FAI agreed.

“The only game that concerned us was the game this Friday night but that can't go ahead,” said Mr McDaid. “As the home team, we rescheduled that game to next Tuesday.

“Bohemians are not happy about it, they feel it’s unfair on them, however, my priority is to Derry City and not Bohemians. Last year when we won the League Cup we had to go to Cork to play an FAI Cup replay; after Europe we had to travel to Dublin for Sunday matches - this has happened to everyone.

“We have three fixtures in the space of six days in the next few weeks - the same as Bohemians - but we refused to move from our stance and the FAI agreed.

“Tuesday night was available for us and the FAI have confirmed the game, regardless of what way Bohs approach the League Cup final - that’s none of our business.”

Former Derry City boss, Fenlon has now stated he will field a reserve team in Saturday’s televised League Cup Final after his club have been ordered to play their league clash with the ‘Candy Stripes’ just three days later.

The reigning Premier Division champions are then scheduled to play what could be a title decider against second placed Shamrock Rovers in Tallaght the following Friday night.

“We are going to have to look at this situation,” said Fenlon. “Without being disrespectful to the League Cup or to Waterford, or EA, I don’t think it’s going to be the kind of game they’re expecting.

“What’s the point in protesting? You’re talking to the wall, so there’s no point. It dosen’t surprise me. The problem is that you have to take into account what you’re asking the players to do and it’s dangerous.

“That’s what people have to take into account from a safety point of view. You’re asking players to travel to games the length and breadth of the country.

“The Waterford game is on a Saturday, not a Friday and we’ve given up a home advantage to go to Waterford to make a spectacle of the game I believe. But what can I do? It dosen’t surprise me.

“Nothing surprises me about decisions that are being made. It’s like moving the chairs around, you’ve still got the small people running it.

It’s not going to change.”

Fenlon refused to reveal what top individual in the FAI gave him an assurance that the Derry game would be moved; “No I’m not going to say, I got a fine for talking my mind on MNS show so I won’t give people the credence to go and fine me again.

“We haven’t got any money here so I’ll have to pay that myself but it’s very disappointing the way we’ve been treated. To be treated the way we’ve been is scandalous.”



So there we have it...the Fenlon version, the FAI version and now the DCFC version

What's missing now is the Bohs board version...

[blue til i die]

Oh I also forgot to mention that Waterford and not Bohs are the ones going for a treble this season!

Quadruple actually. :D

But i'll gladly take promotion instead!!

[marinobohs]

From the 'Derry Journal' today



So there we have it...the Fenlon version, the FAI version and now the DCFC version

What's missing now is the Bohs board version...

Yep. As I said previously I hope Derry City never have the cheek in the future to seek an "accomadation!" around fixtures.
Fair dues on looking after themselves... much as Ollie Byrne did and Tom Coughlan did and.....
Such narrowminded thinking is what is so detrimental to the game here. Result - Devalued League Cup final, unfair League advantage, Yes a great result for football in Ireland :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

Yep. As I said previously I hope Derry City never have the cheek in the future to seek an "accomadation!" around fixtures.
Fair dues on looking after themselves... much as Ollie Byrne did and Tom Coughlan did and.....
Such narrowminded thinking is what is so detrimental to the game here. Result - Devalued League Cup final, unfair League advantage, Yes a great result for football in Ireland :rolleyes:

I think you might be taking this a teeny bit too far.

The price of success is a lot of fixtures. That's not Derry's fault, or the FAI's fault, it's just up to Bohs to deal with.

[OneRedArmy]

Yep. As I said previously I hope Derry City never have the cheek in the future to seek an "accomadation!" around fixtures.
Fair dues on looking after themselves... much as Ollie Byrne did and Tom Coughlan did and.....
Such narrowminded thinking is what is so detrimental to the game here. Result - Devalued League Cup final, unfair League advantage, Yes a great result for football in Ireland :rolleyes:Its only fair to Rovers AND Bohs AND ourselves that we look after our own interests. Shoe on the other foot and Rovers would be going mad.

But its an extremely pleasurable by-product to give Fenlon a little bit of his own medicine.

[marinobohs]

I think you might be taking this a teeny bit too far.

The price of success is a lot of fixtures. That's not Derry's fault, or the FAI's fault, it's just up to Bohs to deal with.

the fact is this issue was avoidable (and still is !) by simply rearranging one fixture (notwithstanding the FAI - but should expect nothing more from these charlatans). There is no reason why football should not be played on an equitable basis (a level playing field :)) and every reason why it should but this is not the case here.
bearing in mind that the idiotic 65% rule introduced by the same FAI has led to smaller squads the attitude by them to this case is even more disgraceful (but as I said Delaney got an advantage for Waterford so what else matters ?).
Back in the "bad old days" the League management was inept. It appears under the FAI "guidance" it is more corrupt than inept (not just this case but the overall A la carte approach to rules applied).

[seand]

Tuesday night gives Bohs three days to recover from a match against a First Division team which half their first team will be rested for anyway... when do they want to play it?

[marinobohs]

Its only fair to Rovers AND Bohs AND ourselves that we look after our own interests. Shoe on the other foot and Rovers would be going mad.

But its an extremely pleasurable by-product to give Fenlon a little bit of his own medicine.

And as I said next time round some team will give Derry "a little bit of his own medicine" .... an eye for an eye etc etc. just as well that "me fein" attitude was not taking by LOI clubs accepting in teams from a foreign juristiction was'nt it ?

[osarusan]

There is no reason why football should not be played on an equitable basis (a level playing field ) and every reason why it should but this is not the case here.You think Derry should change the fixture even though changing it would give Bohs a better chance of beating them?


As SkStu has said, everybody in this is looking out for themselves - Bohs want to be in a better (fresher) position to play Derry, and Derry want to have the best chance to beat Bohs. The FAI want a cup final in Waterford. Nobody, including Bohs (and despite Fenlon's comments about wanting to make thecup final a spectacle) is being altruistic here.


Fair dues on looking after themselves... much as Ollie Byrne did and Tom Coughlan did and.....To try and equate what Derry are doing here with the two names mentioned is pathetic.

[marinobohs]

You think Derry should change the fixture even though changing it would give Bohs a better chance of beating them?


As SkStu has said, everybody in this is looking out for themselves - Bohs want to be in a better (fresher) position to play Derry, and Derry want to have the best chance to beat Bohs. The FAI want a cup final in Waterford. Nobody, including Bohs (and despite Fenlon's comments about wanting to make thecup final a spectacle) is being altruistic here.

(A) Nobody claimed they were. Bohs reason was acknowledged early in the thread (by Bohs fans)
(B) The only party LOSING here are Bohs (the FAI get Delaneys (sorry, the FAI) wish and Derry get whatever advantage accrues). Bohs LOSE the chance (or certainly have less chance) to win the cup and get a DISADVANTAGE in travelling to three games in six days.

The fact is this situation was avoidable had the so called authorities sought to facilitate ALL parties but once Waterford were "looked after".....

The bottom line is that the FAI interferred to promote the interest of one club over another and that is corruption in a football context. If the FAI confirm that nobody phoned Bohs RE conceeding the home advantage then I will be happy to withdraw the point. otherwise it is as stated.

[bluewater]

the fact is this issue was avoidable (and still is !) by simply rearranging one fixture (notwithstanding the FAI - but should expect nothing more from these charlatans). There is no reason why football should not be played on an equitable basis (a level playing field :)) and every reason why it should but this is not the case here.
bearing in mind that the idiotic 65% rule introduced by the same FAI has led to smaller squads the attitude by them to this case is even more disgraceful (but as I said Delaney got an advantage for Waterford so what else matters ?).
Back in the "bad old days" the League management was inept. It appears under the FAI "guidance" it is more corrupt than inept (not just this case but the overall A la carte approach to rules applied).

I'm not going to comment on the rest as I think enough has already been said but what I will say is us playing at home these days is not necessarily an advantage. Out of the 36 games we have played to date this season we have won 11 at home and 14 away, drawn 3 at home and 4 away, lost 3 at home and only one away so our away record is better than our home.

[marinobohs]

To try and equate what Derry are doing here with the two names mentioned is pathetic.

On numerous occasions I recall ollie Byrne (RIP) justify his position on representing Shels, It was narrow minded then and is narrow minded now. How can Derry look to be facilitated over fixtures again when they refuse a request from another club ?

[marinobohs]

I'm not going to comment on the rest as I think enough has already been said but what I will say is us playing at home these days is not necessarily an advantage. Out of the 36 games we have played to date this season we have won 11 at home and 14 away, drawn 3 at home and 4 away, lost 3 at home and only one away so our away record is better than our home.

So now Waterford would be better off playing away ? We know Bohs would prefer Dalymount, so simple solution - move the final, problem solved ;) won't hold breath though.

[osarusan]

(B) The only party LOSING here are Bohs

The fact is this situation was avoidable had the so called authorities sought to facilitate ALL parties but once Waterford were "looked after".....

As I made clear in an earlier post, I agree with all of this, but as should be obvious to anybody looking at it honestly, none of it is Derry's fault. You are the one insulting them and suggesting that they somehow owe you a favour because they joined the FAI decades ago.

[marinobohs]

As I made clear in an earlier post, I agree with all of this, but as should be obvious to anybody looking at it honestly, none of it is Derry's fault. You are the one insulting them and suggesting that they somehow owe you a favour because they joined the FAI decades ago.

Where did I suggest they owed Bohs anything ? I responded to Derry claim they were "looking after themselves" by saying how clubs down here (hardly just Bohs) did not adopt that attitude when Derry sought to join the League.
For the record, I believe Derry add to the League and owe nothing to any club for their presense.
The current attitude of Derry (on this issue) is unhelpfull but far from unique and as I said this type of negitivety has, in my opinion, hindered the League for years.
If you disagree with this view fine, but don't make up arguments on my behalf.

[bluewater]

So now Waterford would be better off playing away ? We know Bohs would prefer Dalymount, so simple solution - move the final, problem solved ;) won't hold breath though.

Possibly and no I wouldn't be holding my breath either for it to be changed :) I know it's put a dampner of the final for ye but I'm looking forward to a good game with a good crowd. I know our tickets have nearly sold out if not sold out already (would love to know where all these people are all season long :confused:). How are the Bohs allocation going do ye know?

[osarusan]

The current attitude of Derry (on this issue) is unhelpful but far from unique and as I said this type of negitivity has, in my opinion, hindered the League for years.

Imagine evil Derry wanting to give themselves the best possible chance of beating a team who has made a deal with the FAI (which was wrongly and unfairly reneged on by the FAI)to give them the best chance of beating Derry!!


On numerous occasions I recall ollie Byrne (RIP) justify his position on representing Shels, It was narrow minded then and is narrow minded now.Was it narrow-minded of Bohs to give away the possibility of home advantage against Waterford in order to be in a better condition to play Derry?

[MariborKev]

On numerous occasions I recall ollie Byrne (RIP) justify his position on representing Shels, It was narrow minded then and is narrow minded now. How can Derry look to be facilitated over fixtures again when they refuse a request from another club ?

Are you serious? You might want to ask your board how many times in recent seasons they have turned down requests for fixtures rescheduling. Most people make the request, if they get it then happy days, if they don't they move on.

As for facilitating, perhaps you might want to ask whoever representated Bohs at the Setanta draw just how little Derry were "facilitated" at that shambles......

[marinobohs]

Imagine evil Derry wanting to give themselves the best possible chance of beating a team who has made a deal with the FAI (which was wrongly and unfairly reneged on by the FAI)to give them the best chance of beating Derry!!

Was it narrow-minded of Bohs to give away the possibility of home advantage against Waterford in order to be in a better condition to play Derry?

Not surprised at derry attitude just(AGAIN - how many times ??) just expect them to reap the rewards when next they seek an "accomadation" in the future 9and the cycle goes on).

Bohs did not seek an advantage as they did not seek to have the fixture moved from the original date (this occured due to the cup final - remember ????????). In the circumstances they sought NOT to be disadvantaged in the resheduling - if this is your interpretation of "narrow minded" then fine, it is not mine or dare I say most fans.

there are none so blind...............

[dong]

Yep. As I said previously I hope Derry City never have the cheek in the future to seek an "accomadation!" around fixtures.
Fair dues on looking after themselves... much as Ollie Byrne did and Tom Coughlan did and.....
Such narrowminded thinking is what is so detrimental to the game here. Result - Devalued League Cup final, unfair League advantage, Yes a great result for football in Ireland :rolleyes:

Marinobohs, I think you've lost all perspective on this issue. Your arguments just don't stack up really and with comments like the above you've lost all credibility. Time to get over it maybe and stop making a show of yourself?

[marinobohs]

Are you serious? You might want to ask your board how many times in recent seasons they have turned down requests for fixtures rescheduling. Most people make the request, if they get it then happy days, if they don't they move on.

As for facilitating, perhaps you might want to ask whoever representated Bohs at the Setanta draw just how little Derry were "facilitated" at that shambles......

so that makes Derry stance right ? My original point waas the need for ALL clubs to be more facilitating, for god's sake read back (AN EYE FOR AN EYE etc etc..).
Congrats to derry you got you're own back on Bohs over fixture scheduling. Happy days !

[stann]

Marinobohs, I think you've lost all perspective on this issue.

You said it.
The argument has got so pointless now it's not true. Page 10? Love of Jesus!
(and that 'Delaney sorting out Waterford' suggestion is positively retarded btw - the suggestion I'll say again)

The question "what are you really angry about?" springs to mind.

Quickly followed by the answer maybe?


the idiotic 65% rule introduced by the same FAI

[marinobohs]

Marinobohs, I think you've lost all perspective on this issue. Your arguments just don't stack up really and with comments like the above you've lost all credibility. Time to get over it maybe and stop making a show of yourself?

why exactly ? because it does not involve Sligo ? Do you believe what occured was right for football,? Or does it not matter as long as it affects Bohs ? Would it be "fair" to expect Sligo to choose between playing your first team in the cup final or a an important league game ?

[marinobohs]

You said it.
The argument has got so pointless now it's not true.
(and that 'Delaney sorting out Waterford' suggestion is positively retarded btw - the suggestion I'll say again)

The question "what are you really angry about?" springs to mind.

Quickly followed by the answer maybe?

Delaney and/or the FAI DID "sort out" home advantage for Waterford - FACT. Whether you like it or not this is the national authority seeking advantage for one club in a cup final.
My reference to the 65% rule was in the context of resources and scheduling and no other. Again don't make arguments for me that are not correct. Feel free to express your own views but not mine ;)

[MariborKev]

so that makes Derry stance right ? My original point waas the need for ALL clubs to be more facilitating, for god's sake read back (AN EYE FOR AN EYE etc etc..).
Congrats to derry you got you're own back on Bohs over fixture scheduling. Happy days !

Right, there is being facilitating and harming your own chances.

1. Did Bohs give us adequate notice when they requested the change?
2. Were the alternatives suggested massively different to the current arrangement?

Derry are going for 3rd spot and Europe. Therefore the timing of our games is important. Perhaps if it was a European game you could throw out a "for the good of the League" argument. However here, I think it falls into Mr A argument of success= fixture congestion. I'd say that Derry will lose out anyway due to the fact that the game has been moved from a Friday to a Tuesday and the crowd will be lower.

[Quadruple1928]

Post removed

Breach of the new rules

http://foot.ie/forums/announcement.php?f=14&a=116

[dong]

why exactly ? because it does not involve Sligo ? Do you believe what occured was right for football,? Or does it not matter as long as it affects Bohs ? Would it be "fair" to expect Sligo to choose between playing your first team in the cup final or a an important league game ?

Yeah, that's why.
I was only reading this thread as an interested observer. Fenlon has hidden behind the threat of a fine to mask the truth of what happened. The fact is nobody knows what happened and that suits him for the "everybody is against us" mentality that he wishes to encourage among his now stuttering squad.
Beat of luck to him. He's a pro and he'll get on with it now. Maybe you should to?
Save yourself a nervous breakdown man. It aint worth it.

[blue til i die]

Delaney and/or the FAI DID "sort out" home advantage for Waterford - FACT. Whether you like it or not this is the national authority seeking advantage for one club in a cup final.
My reference to the 65% rule was in the context of resources and scheduling and no other. Again don't make arguments for me that are not correct. Feel free to express your own views but not mine ;)


We're even hoping Delaney will move the Rovers v Bohs game down here, get some people through the gates. Good oul John will sort us out...... :D

[passerrby]

bearing in mind that the idiotic 65% rule introduced by the same FAI has led to smaller squads ).).

I think you have just lost the argument

[SkStu]

Yeah, that's why.
I was only reading this thread as an interested observer. Fenlon has hidden behind the threat of a fine to mask the truth of what happened. The fact is nobody knows what happened and that suits him for the "everybody is against us" mentality that he wishes to encourage among his now stuttering squad.
Beat of luck to him. He's a pro and he'll get on with it now. Maybe you should to?
Save yourself a nervous breakdown man. It aint worth it.

though im letting this issue/non-issue die i think thats a bit unfair. I dont think he is using this to create an us v. the world mentality. There are far more incidents over the last month or two that would be better suited towards that. I genuinely think that he feels majorly aggrieved by this - whoever is at fault be it Bohs, the FAI, Derry or the man in the moon.

[MariborKev]

That's the thing, whoever's "fault" it is, Derry can hardly be at the fault?

[VinnyDCFC]

Any word from the Bohs board on this yet, any official response to the FAI statement? Deal or no deal?

As Kev has already pointed out, DCFC are losing out on this as well, moving the game from the Friday to the Tuesday

[SkStu]

That's the thing, whoever's "fault" it is, Derry can hardly be at the fault?

im not getting into that again, its been done to death by now.

[MariborKev]

We were asked by Bohs to considering rescheduling a game, which had already been rescheduled.

We refused, as we are entitled to do. And we're to blame how?

[BohDiddley]

I have to say I don't think this is Derry's fault in any way, shape or form.

It is the fault of whoever gave Pat Fenlon the impression that there was a trade-off for playing the League Cup final in Waterford.

As I said in the original post, if I can remember back that far, Fenlon would be well justified in taking a reserve squad to Waterford, if he thinks that bringing a full one would impact on prospects for the real prize, which is the League.

[SkStu]

We were asked by Bohs to considering rescheduling a game, which had already been rescheduled.

We refused, as we are entitled to do. And we're to blame how?

why are you trying to rope me into defending an accusation i never even made in the first place?! :rolleyes: My point has been consistent, the FAI are to blame in my opinion. I mentioned Derry and Bohs as blame has been levelled at both parties by other posters in this thread.

Anyway, as i said, this is done as far as im concerned - i only wished to address the point that Dong2008 made which i felt was a bit inaccurate. Stop trying to drag this out.

[shantykelly]

no, keep going. i fully expect this thread to still be going when i return from magaluf in two weeks time.