View Full Version : What a joke of a league
Rovers Maniac
11/09/2009, 1:23 PM
What an absolute joke shop, its laughable the whole thing is beyond a joke at this stage. Today's news is gutting i think the league was never as bad as it is now, this is the worst shape the league of Ireland has ever been that i can recall and i don't care what people say. I am not sure who to blame but at this moment in time the FAI have to be near the front of the que. All we get from them is smoke and mirrors and PR guff, stick up your arse.
The fault lies mostly with the people who run the clubs. Secondary responsibility falls upon the FAI for not regulating more tightly and the fans for accepting far too much garbage from their own clubs.
tiktok
11/09/2009, 1:32 PM
Is anyone surprised anymore?
It's been this way as long as I can remember except licencing has meant that all the brown envelopes now have to be slid on top of the table rather than passed underneath it. CCFC are a complete mess, but scratch the surface at a lot of clubs and you'll see they're a mistake or two away from serious trouble.
The kick in the teeth is the few clubs that are well run are looking UP the table at clubs engaged in this nonsense, responsibility for that situation lies completely with the FAI.
Rovers Maniac
11/09/2009, 1:39 PM
The fault lies mostly with the people who run the clubs. Secondary responsibility falls upon the FAI for not regulating more tightly and the fans for accepting far too much garbage from their own clubs.
I can't agree with you there, this meant to be a regulated league with a limit of 65% of your income being spent on wages. The FAI have allowed clubs who have proved time and time again that they can't run themselves to go unchecked. The Bohs farce of them them and the FAI arguing over 1 or 2% is bloody laughable as we all know Bohs are nowhere near that. It's a joke and it's a bad one at this stage, Cork wtf? Seriously i mean whats the point just wind the club up and start again. Dundalk how the hell can they let a club sign 7 players and and 3 weeks later they are asked to take pay cuts?
I agree the FAI must do better. But the clubs seem determined to always find a new way around the rules. Oftentimes, non-compliance with rules is so widespread that to punish the guilty may be viewed as impossible. Personally I think that's wrong and they should punish every single club if it comes to that. But then of course the clubs would probably break away again.
Ultimately, it's time we all started to take responsibility for making sure our own clubs are properly run. It's very easy to point the finger at the FAI and demand they fix it, but until the change comes from the clubs themselves it'll remain a case of the FAI leading the clubs to water but being unable to make them drink.
osarusan
11/09/2009, 1:50 PM
What exactly is the news that has gutted the original poster?
Sam_Heggy
11/09/2009, 1:53 PM
What exactly is the news that has gutted the original poster?
His kitten died outside the Showgrounds?
Greg O'Halloran's Pat Dolan impersonation is just not funny anymore?
He can't get the image of Dave Rogers' brown stained jocks out of his head?
centre mid
11/09/2009, 1:53 PM
Presume its the Dave Rogers story
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 1:54 PM
Assumed it was the Cork winding-up story.
What a great league that we can't even work that bit out. :)
You have to admit though, even if the football is crap and the administration is hopeless, it's bloody fascinating.
centre mid
11/09/2009, 2:14 PM
The soup is always nice at the Carlisle
marinobohs
11/09/2009, 2:26 PM
I can't agree with you there, this meant to be a regulated league with a limit of 65% of your income being spent on wages. The FAI have allowed clubs who have proved time and time again that they can't run themselves to go unchecked. The Bohs farce of them them and the FAI arguing over 1 or 2% is bloody laughable as we all know Bohs are nowhere near that. It's a joke and it's a bad one at this stage, Cork wtf? Seriously i mean whats the point just wind the club up and start again. Dundalk how the hell can they let a club sign 7 players and and 3 weeks later they are asked to take pay cuts?
I always love arguments that go..... "as we all know"... always a sign of desperation. Having listened to the rantings of many on here about Bohs breaching the 65% rule we now have to listen to whining because it looks like Bohs (at last) may have got their house in order.
for the benifits of slow people like Rovers Manaic - 64% legal, within rules = no penalty. 66% illegal, outside rules = penalty. Sure how could a team win the League by 1 or 2 points we all know they don't deserve it :rolleyes: same idiotic argument....
ped_ped
11/09/2009, 2:31 PM
It's up to the FAI to enforce the law, but the buck stops with the clubs. The FAI aren't breaking the laws, aren't enforcing bad fiscal decisions... the clubs are.
The FAI will never be able to solve all the problems, only the clubs.
placid casual
11/09/2009, 2:34 PM
[
The kick in the teeth is the few clubs that are well run are looking UP the table at clubs engaged in this nonsense, responsibility for that situation lies completely with the FAI.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to break my self imposed exile...
But the above is horse-£hit.
There are 3 team compliant in the Premier Division.
Rovers, Bray & St Pats.
The rest are in a manky state and wil need to get their act together sooner rather than later.
bye bye
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 2:36 PM
Well run clubs could be outside the Premier Division looking up the table.
The league is a complete joke though,from the Refs right up to the spineless folks in the FAI "regulating" the league.Its comical to be honest,whats even worse is that we are giving this league our hard earned money.
tiktok
11/09/2009, 2:40 PM
Sorry to break my self imposed exile...
But the above is horse-£hit.
There are 3 team compliant in the Premier Division.
Rovers, Bray & St Pats.
The rest are in a manky state and wil need to get their act together sooner rather than later.
bye bye
It's not horse-manure at all.
Your argument is particularly weak for two quick points:
1. Your three examples of Rovers, Bray and Pat's are all looking up the table at clubs who are less compliant than them, which is exactly what I wrote.
2. Like MNS, you seem to have forgotten that the first division exists, Monaghan United and Wexford Youths are making a good fist of doing things properly. Shels, in fairness, are trying to undo the mistakes of the past and do things correctly as well.
Jump back into your self-imposed exile with my blessing :p
placid casual
11/09/2009, 3:08 PM
semantics.
And Rovers wont have very long to look up the table at anybody.
As for the first division. F££k the first division. its a graveyard we were lucky enough to escape at first attempt.
My exile is self imposed.
your clubs imminent exile is also self imposed.
snap.
[
There are 3 team compliant in the Premier Division.
Rovers, Bray & St Pats.
The rest are in a manky state and wil need to get their act together sooner rather than later.
bye bye
Are Sligo Rovers not "compliant" then?
It's up to the FAI to enforce the law, but the buck stops with the clubs. The FAI aren't breaking the laws, aren't enforcing bad fiscal decisions... the clubs are.
The FAI will never be able to solve all the problems, only the clubs.
While I agree that it's ultimately the clubs responsibility and their own fault, the FAI have to give clubs a reason to be compliant. If you can be non-compliant and still get a license, win stuff etc then there's very little motivation for the clowns in charge to sort themselves out.
They need to be forced to, and the FAI are the only body that can do so.
It's not the FAI's fault we're screwed, but if they hadn't give us a license, as it's clear we shouldn't have gotten one, we would ahve been forced to cut costs, not sign players etc.
They shouldn't have to do this, be the Mammy of Daddy but with the idiots running our clubs they do.
tiktok
11/09/2009, 3:26 PM
semantics.
If we're only differing by semantics, I'm sure you can take back your assertion that my opinion was horsesh!t so. Or would that be too grown-up for you?
As for Cork City, as micls said, it's clear now that we should have faced a lot more questions and challenges before we were granted a licence. That's the only control the FAI really have that they can exert, they should take that responsibility more seriously.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 3:32 PM
I think placid is considering that you were claiming that well run clubs were all being kept down by the other ones, whereas he's noting that one well-run club isn't being kept down.
passinginterest
11/09/2009, 3:38 PM
I think a lot of people need to realise that if it wasn't for the FAI and their regulation of the league most of these problems would be getting swept under the carpet and the clubs would be building up bigger and bigger debts. With the recession hitting the way it has I think a lot more clubs would be facing winding up orders without any hope of surviving them if it wasn't for the fact that the FAI has forced them towards more transparent financial system. The process is taking time and maybe the FAI haven't been harsh enough, but hopefully that will come and those that refuse to fall into line will be left behind.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 3:40 PM
I think the Revenue have done far more to clean up the league than the FAI have.
passinginterest
11/09/2009, 3:43 PM
I think the Revenue have done far more to clean up the league than the FAI have.
The Revenue getting their act together has certainly made a major contribution too. I still feel like the league is a work in progress and if clubs don't throw the toys out of the pram and the FAI stops clinging to the idea of a fully professional premier division, then we're not too far away from a decent quality, and most importantly, sustainable league.
I think a lot of people need to realise that if it wasn't for the FAI and their regulation of the league most of these problems would be getting swept under the carpet and the clubs would be building up bigger and bigger debts.
But isn't that exactly what is happening? A couple of months into the season we were being wound up by the revenue!!
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 3:45 PM
The Revenue getting their act together has certainly made a major contribution too.
I should point out that I was disagreeing with your post in that I think the Revenue have done pretty much everything that's been done recently to expose financial problems and avoid stuff being swept under the carpet. I can't really see a huge amount of evidence of the FAI doing anything, bar rejecting a couple of budgets which, while a good start, doesn't really do much in itself.
passinginterest
11/09/2009, 4:02 PM
But isn't that exactly what is happening? A couple of months into the season we were being wound up by the revenue!!
I don't think anyone could have predicted what Coughlan did. He was given control of the club in good faith and proceeded to run it into the ground. Unless the FAI actually take over the day to day runnings of the clubs they have to place some trust in those running them.
I don't think anyone could have predicted what Coughlan did. He was given control of the club in good faith and proceeded to run it into the ground. Unless the FAI actually take over the day to day runnings of the clubs they have to place some trust in those running them.
That's simply not true. Coughlan was running the club into the ground long before he license was handed over. The tax bill was already there, we were signing players left, right and centre etc etc.
There's no way the FAi didn't know he was on a downwards slope, we all knew it.
Ezeikial
11/09/2009, 4:07 PM
I can't really see a huge amount of evidence of the FAI doing anything, bar rejecting a couple of budgets which, while a good start, doesn't really do much in itself.
The litmus test for the FAI has yet to come. Clearly they have fudged "moments of truth" in the recent past and that does not auger well for the hard actions that face them this winter. But clear statements, such as that made by Padraig Smith in his Indo interview, gives some grounds for optimism that they are prepared to make good on their threats regarding sanctions.
pineapple stu
11/09/2009, 4:10 PM
The litmus test has been had for the last decade we've had licencing. I don't see any reason to believe this year's lip service will be more meaningul than last year's lip service. I'd love to be proven wrong, but the litmus paper has dissolved at this stage, the FAI have had so many tests. Half the league doling out wage cuts last year was the obvious one.
passinginterest
11/09/2009, 4:11 PM
That's simply not true. Coughlan was running the club into the ground long before he license was handed over. The tax bill was already there, we were signing players left, right and centre etc etc.
There's no way the FAi didn't know he was on a downwards slope, we all knew it.
Maybe I have my timeline a bit out then, I didn't think the licence was granted while Coughlan was in charge. Even at that Coughlan was claiming to have the money to finance the whole gig, he lodged his €500,000 bond to get control of the club in the first place, I think the FAI acted in good faith allowing him to sign players and continue in the manner he did, even if questions were starting to be asked. I'd imagine there would have been uproar if an owner claiming to have the funds (and more importantly displaying he had them)to sign theses players was prevented from doing so.
Maybe I have my timeline a bit out then, I didn't think the licence was granted while Coughlan was in charge. Even at that Coughlan was claiming to have the money to finance the whole gig, he lodged his €500,000 bond to get control of the club in the first place, I think the FAI acted in good faith allowing him to sign players and continue in the manner he did, even if questions were starting to be asked. I'd imagine there would have been uproar if an owner claiming to have the funds to sign theses players was prevented from doing so.
You have your timeline out. Coughlan was given the club last October.
Coughlan submitted a budget and blew it out of the water long before the licences were handed out.
We also had a huge tax bill then
passerrby
11/09/2009, 5:04 PM
i think stu is right there is no indication that the fai will in the future be any more able to control mindless idiots ruining clubs than they were in the past ..do hope im wrong but there is nothing to hang that hope on
BohsPartisan
11/09/2009, 5:12 PM
There are 3 team compliant in the Premier Division.
Rovers, Bray & St Pats.
The rest are in a manky state and wil need to get their act together sooner rather than later.
For how long?
Ezeikial
11/09/2009, 5:27 PM
[
There are 3 team compliant in the Premier Division.
Rovers, Bray & St Pats.
This type of claim seems pretty regular here, but I don't understand the basis for it. It is pretty obvious that most clubs are experiencing various levels of financial difficulties, but there are hardly 7 premier clubs who are likely to have breached licencing rules.
Corks problems are obvious, Bohs and Derry may have issues with the 65% rule, but what are the non-compliance issues with Dundalk, Galway, Sligo and Drogheda?
from all the breaking news from Dundalk, id say you are complying by the skin of your teeth (thanks to your players taking a pay cut). Galway Sligo and Droghedas problems are ongoing since last season but they would appear to be complying.
Surely it is important to remember that compliance to an arbitrary percentage of a budget does not mean that a club is financially sound or is being run well necessarily.
Id venture to suggest that Rovers may overextend themselves (AGAIN) in the next couple of seasons if they continue to sign the players they have signed on the money that is being touted. Im not saying its inevitable but they need to be careful. To be fair, Rovers are lucky they screwed up when they did - 4% of debts and no sanction? Id take that in an instant if it came to Bohs!!
Ezeikial
11/09/2009, 7:11 PM
from all the breaking news from Dundalk, id say you are complying by the skin of your teeth (thanks to your players taking a pay cut). Galway Sligo and Droghedas problems are ongoing since last season but they would appear to be complying.
Surely it is important to remember that compliance to an arbitrary percentage of a budget does not mean that a club is financially sound or is being run well necessarily.
Ok - so you think that all bar Bohs, Derry and Cork appear to be complying, even if all other clubs are not necessarily financially sound or well run?
Sounds about right to me.
HulaHoop
11/09/2009, 7:11 PM
f
Id venture to suggest that Rovers may overextend themselves (AGAIN) in the next couple of seasons if they continue to sign the players they have signed on the money that is being touted.
Dream on. We were below 50% wage:turnover ratio before the transfer window so we could afford to increase the wage budget a bit during the window. Don't get too hopeful though we're still well below the 65% and don't forget our crowds have just gone up from 3000 to 5000. If you actually think the people running Rovers will wildly overspend in the next few years you are living in dreamland, the entire membership is united from top to bottom on this subject. No silly wages to players and no back of the beermat budgets using voodoo economics. The two Slovak lads we had on trial with us and played in the summer friendlies were let go because they demanded mad money we weren't willing to pay. If the bubble ever bursts in Tallaght (which I don't think it will) budgets will be cut back long before we are in serious trouble.
fair enough HulaHoop - we'll have to wait and see. If Rovers can prolong the Tallaght effect and remain steadfast in their principles over the next 5 years then i will be the first to say well done (with some choice expletives thrown in).
Ezeikial, i am not the authority on who is and who is not complying. I suspect Dundalk arent but they could be. Ditto Galway and Sligo. Im not going to know for sure until i hear from the FAI. My main point was that even if your team and the others who are living on the edge are complying with an arbitrary percentage of a predetermined budget, this does not mean that they arent already screwed or will be very shortly.
For sure, Cork, Derry and Bohs are in the most visible danger but i think Dundalk, Galway, Drogheda and Sligo are right behind them 65% or no 65%.
Ezeikial
11/09/2009, 7:38 PM
Ezeikial, i am not the authority on who is and who is not complying. I suspect Dundalk arent but they could be. Ditto Galway and Sligo. Im not going to know for sure until i hear from the FAI. My main point was that even if your team and the others who are living on the edge are complying with an arbitrary percentage of a predetermined budget, this does not mean that they arent already screwed or will be very shortly.
For sure, Cork, Derry and Bohs are in the most visible danger but i think Dundalk, Galway, Drogheda and Sligo are right behind them 65% or no 65%.
The original question I posed was:
Corks problems are obvious, Bohs and Derry may have issues with the 65% rule, but what are the non-compliance issues with Dundalk, Galway, Sligo and Drogheda?
I'm none the wiser about your views on inferred non-compliance issues with the above 4 clubs, other then you don't know, and that they may be in financial danger now or in the future!
HulaHoop
11/09/2009, 7:42 PM
fair enough HulaHoop - we'll have to wait and see. If Rovers can prolong the Tallaght effect and remain steadfast in their principles over the next 5 years then i will be the first to say well done (with some choice expletives thrown in)
Fair enough, here's to the future ;)
The original question I posed was:
I'm none the wiser about your views on inferred non-compliance issues with the above 4 clubs, other then you don't know, and that they may be in financial danger now or in the future!
thats funny cos you were perfectly happy with my response in the previous message i posted. :confused:
Whether Dundalk are complying or not is besides the point - compliance is only a way to avoid FAI sanction - its not the miracle cure to every clubs ailment! If Bohs do comply this season it doesnt mean that we arent screwed anyway in terms of having to service our old debt. Same Cork, same Dundalk, same everyone you mention. Thats my point. I know it doesnt answer your question - as i said, im sure (ha!) that Frank And Irene will do that at some stage.
tallaghtfornia
12/09/2009, 8:43 AM
I always love arguments that go..... "as we all know"... always a sign of desperation. Having listened to the rantings of many on here about Bohs breaching the 65% rule we now have to listen to whining because it looks like Bohs (at last) may have got their house in order.
for the benifits of slow people like Rovers Manaic - 64% legal, within rules = no penalty. 66% illegal, outside rules = penalty. Sure how could a team win the League by 1 or 2 points we all know they don't deserve it :rolleyes: same idiotic argument....
Bohs are nowhere near having their house in order, they are simply gonna carry on regardless because they are fairly confident (and I would be too) that the FAI wont have the balls to do anything to them.
If Bohs had their house in order they wouldn't all of a sudden have a last man standing competition, monster draw and Johnny Logan singing in a tent.
Before all Bohs fans start with the usual "rovers talking ****e" responses I have been told by a very good source within Bohs of the situation and things do not look good for when the FAI wanna see the books.
To sort all this out I think the FAI should assign a finance officer to every club and go through the finances on a month to month basis so warnings can be made and then acted on if needed.
tallaghtfornia
12/09/2009, 8:53 AM
My main point was that even if your team and the others who are living on the edge are complying with an arbitrary percentage of a predetermined budget, this does not mean that they arent already screwed or will be very shortly.
.
Spot on point, think people are under the impression that if they can get away with it now then its happy days and all is forgotten. Some people are in for one hell of a rude awakening.
Da Real Rover
12/09/2009, 10:45 AM
As far as im aware we are fairly comfortable at the moment, obviously not rolling in the cash but players are being paid and the wolves dont seem to be at the door.
From what I hear about Galway they are definetly up there with Cork, apparently Foster hasnt been payed in weeks and wages arent being met.
Patrick Dunne
12/09/2009, 11:27 AM
As far as im aware we are fairly comfortable at the moment, obviously not rolling in the cash but players are being paid and the wolves dont seem to be at the door.
From what I hear about Galway they are definetly up there with Cork, apparently Foster hasnt been payed in weeks and wages arent being met.
I was talking to one of the parents of a squad member last night who told me that all players wages are up to date.
MMVIII
12/09/2009, 12:26 PM
Sligo are right behind them 65% or no 65%.
You base this on what exactly? What do you know about our club that makes you say this? Or are you just saying it because you somehow think, that just because Bohs are in the dogs, the likes of us will be there soon after? We've been living well within our means this season which is most evident in our squad.
Da Real Rover
12/09/2009, 12:48 PM
I was talking to one of the parents of a squad member last night who told me that all players wages are up to date.
Cheers.
Is it true that Foster hasnt been payed in weeks though?
forza rovers
12/09/2009, 12:50 PM
This type of claim seems pretty regular here, but I don't understand the basis for it. It is pretty obvious that most clubs are experiencing various levels of financial difficulties, but there are hardly 7 premier clubs who are likely to have breached licencing rules.
Corks problems are obvious, Bohs and Derry may have issues with the 65% rule, but what are the non-compliance issues with Dundalk, Galway, Sligo and Drogheda?there has being no issues with the club and the fai
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