What a joke of a league [Archive] - Page 2

SkStu

12/09/2009, 5:35 PM

Bohs are nowhere near having their house in order, they are simply gonna carry on regardless because they are fairly confident (and I would be too) that the FAI wont have the balls to do anything to them.

If Bohs had their house in order they wouldn't all of a sudden have a last man standing competition, monster draw and Johnny Logan singing in a tent.

Before all Bohs fans start with the usual "rovers talking ****e" responses I have been told by a very good source within Bohs of the situation and things do not look good for when the FAI wanna see the books.

To sort all this out I think the FAI should assign a finance officer to every club and go through the finances on a month to month basis so warnings can be made and then acted on if needed.

I dont tend to trust sentences on messageboards that mention "very good sources" but yeah, we are nowhere near being in good order, i think thats common knowledge. I think we may make the 65% with the fundraising initiatives you have pointed out but thats only the short term goal and id imagine that we will not "carry on regardless" come the end of the season and i think you will see a different Bohs team and a different approach from us next season and into the future. We are slowly turning the club around but its going to take a long time.

I also agree that Frank And Irene will be supplying major fudge to D7 at the end of the season, something that i think that is even more likely if your lot wins the League (in other words, the stink kicked up if a compliant Rovers team wins the league will be far less than if a non compliant team wins thus allowing vast quantities of fudge to be handed out behind the scenes with minimum fuss).

I think your last paragraph is a good idea. A finance officer or three would be enough though, no need for one per club.

SkStu

12/09/2009, 5:39 PM

You base this on what exactly? What do you know about our club that makes you say this? Or are you just saying it because you somehow think, that just because Bohs are in the dogs, the likes of us will be there soon after? We've been living well within our means this season which is most evident in our squad.

Firstly i said "i think" in that sentence you quoted.

Secondly, i made the assumption based on your problems last season and the fact that you cannot realistically go from being in major trouble to making a profit in the space of a year. Is it not fair to assume that Rovers are in debt and that it will take some time to service that debt?

red bellied

12/09/2009, 7:00 PM

Firstly i said "i think" in that sentence you quoted.

Secondly, i made the assumption based on your problems last season and the fact that you cannot realistically go from being in major trouble to making a profit in the space of a year. Is it not fair to assume that Rovers are in debt and that it will take some time to service that debt?

Actually broke even in the end up last season. Budget reduced this season plus being still in the cup at this stage is currently helping.

Ezeikial

12/09/2009, 9:40 PM

I also agree that Frank And Irene will be supplying major fudge to D7 at the end of the season, something that i think that is even more likely if your lot wins the League (in other words, the stink kicked up if a compliant Rovers team wins the league will be far less than if a non compliant team wins thus allowing vast quantities of fudge to be handed out behind the scenes with minimum fuss).

If Bohs fail to win the league, would the shortfall of 150,000 in prize money, between 1st and 2nd places, not completely shatter the possibility of complying with the 65% rule?

SkStu

12/09/2009, 10:29 PM

yes, probably (not necessarily a given however). Why?

the point i was making was that if Rovers win the league then it will be far easier for the FAI to fudge sanctions on at least 3, possibly 5, team that have not complied, therefore avoiding huge negative press around the league and by extension, the FAI.

If Bohs win, a big fuss will be kicked up about league winners being non compliant therefore meaning that sanctions will be called for loudly and the likelihood of the same 3-5 teams getting sanctioned increases. The less fuss that is kicked up, the easier it will be for the FAI to say nothing in public and reprimand teams in private and get them to get their house in order for the next season...

Im not saying this is fact, im just saying that this is how it could work out. Just an opinion.

Ezeikial

13/09/2009, 12:15 AM

yes, probably (not necessarily a given however). Why?

While I would not put any situation beyond the scope of the FAI fudge-specialists, I imagine that if they were so inclined, they would find it easier to declare Bohs compliant if they were close to 65%, but would find it much more difficult if there was such an obvious disparity. The statements made to the press about needing to win the league and advance against Salzburg to come anywhere near the limits, could come back to haunt the Bohs board.

the point i was making was that if Rovers win the league then it will be far easier for the FAI to fudge sanctions on at least 3, possibly 5, team that have not complied, therefore avoiding huge negative press around the league and by extension, the FAI.

It's an interesting theory, but I don't understand why you say at least 3 clubs, and possibly 5, will not have complied. Bohs, Derry, and Cork are all obvious possibilities for the 65% rule, while Cork may have further licencing difficulties - but it is far from certain that all of these will be non-compliant.

Irrespective of how many are non-compliant, the FAI would shatter whatever credibility they hold if they were to blatently waive all sanctions.

Abdicating this responsibiliy would not be in the overall interests of trying to acheive a regulated and sustainable league.

Hairy Bowsie

13/09/2009, 9:29 AM

Dunny

13/09/2009, 9:58 PM

Dundalk CEO Gerry Matthews interview on the finances of the club...

http://dundalkfc.com/news/090913_GM.asp

Mr A

14/09/2009, 9:44 AM

Good to see him being pretty open and honest. The parallels with our adventures last season are striking, albeit Dundalk seem in a far better position to recover from them quickly, especially because you actually have a decent team and a clear leadership structure. That said, the projected loss is substantial, the comments on signing new players are unconvincing and the surprise at crashed advertising revenue misplaced considering that this time last year it was already clear that the economy was in a very poor state.

marinobohs

14/09/2009, 9:56 AM

Bohs are nowhere near having their house in order, they are simply gonna carry on regardless because they are fairly confident (and I would be too) that the FAI wont have the balls to do anything to them.

If Bohs had their house in order they wouldn't all of a sudden have a last man standing competition, monster draw and Johnny Logan singing in a tent.

Before all Bohs fans start with the usual "rovers talking ****e" responses I have been told by a very good source within Bohs of the situation and things do not look good for when the FAI wanna see the books.

To sort all this out I think the FAI should assign a finance officer to every club and go through the finances on a month to month basis so warnings can be made and then acted on if needed.

Perhaps embolding and underlining the word "MAY" did not make it clear enough ! At the moment Bohs are hopefull they will be compliant with the 65% rule but will not know for sure until the last month or so (variables such as crowds and fundraising will all play a part).
Cannot understand why people on here have a problem with Bohs fund raising initiatives ????????? like it never happened at any other club (at least we are not looking for an FAI bailout or someone to build a ground for us)
Nobody at Dalymount believes the problems at Bohs have gone away but progress has been made whether it will be enough or not remains to be seen.

RoversHead

14/09/2009, 10:39 AM

Perhaps embolding and underlining the word "MAY" did not make it clear enough ! At the moment Bohs are hopefull they will be compliant with the 65% rule but will not know for sure until the last month or so (variables such as crowds and fundraising will all play a part).
Cannot understand why people on here have a problem with Bohs fund raising initiatives ????????? like it never happened at any other club (at least we are not looking for an FAI bailout or someone to build a ground for us)
Nobody at Dalymount believes the problems at Bohs have gone away but progress has been made whether it will be enough or not remains to be seen.
Regardless of what the FAI do about Bohs it will be vital that the real fans continue to raise cash for the struggle ahead .Ive had a cheap laugh at the Logan thing myself but I have nothing but admiration for fans who give up there time and effort to raise money to save any league of Ireland club.I hate seeing the money that gets raised handed over to clowns though!

marinobohs

14/09/2009, 11:32 AM

Regardless of what the FAI do about Bohs it will be vital that the real fans continue to raise cash for the struggle ahead .Ive had a cheap laugh at the Logan thing myself but I have nothing but admiration for fans who give up there time and effort to raise money to save any league of Ireland club.I hate seeing the money that gets raised handed over to clowns though!

There are two very seperate and distinct parts to the situation at Dalymount
firstly the issue of 65% payroll which is a short term issue (with potential long term impact) and dealing with that requires us to match income and expenditure in accordance with the rule (65%) this season.
The second issue, and a longer term issue is dealing with the club debt and more importantly stopping it increasing. this will have to be addressed over a number of years (more realistic wage budgets etc) and the new Board have started the process already - it is widely known that the budget for next season will be cut dramatically.
To be fair Johnny Logan (who has been "adopted" by the bohs fans) has agreed to perform a concert in an effort to raise money to assist the club. An admirable offer by him and I am not sure what is funny in that but glad it gave you a laugh.Imagine, somebody trying to do something positive for the LOI :eek: !

dcfcsteve

14/09/2009, 11:58 AM

To be fair Johnny Logan (who has been "adopted" by the bohs fans) has agreed to perform a concert in an effort to raise money to assist the club. An admirable offer by him and I am not sure what is funny in that but glad it gave you a laugh.Imagine, somebody trying to do something positive for the LOI :eek: !

You nexpecting much of a crowd to turn out for a Johnny Logan concert ? :confused:

Will it be held at Croker, the Point Depot or a phone box...? :D

marinobohs

14/09/2009, 12:03 PM

You nexpecting much of a crowd to turn out for a Johnny Logan concert ? :confused:

Will it be held at Croker, the Point Depot or a phone box...? :D

........Dalymount actually, I have no idea how many will attend the event. Tickets are already on sale for anyone interested. there are other acts on the bill as well so given your obvious interest feel free to contact the club :D and honest we wont tell anyone.

dcfcsteve

14/09/2009, 12:05 PM

The league is a joke alright but never moreso than since the FAI took over. I've went to my first game aged 3 and have been going since, it's always been a joke but only in the last 3 years have i ever gave serious thought to just packing it in altogether.

Say what you want about barstoolers but it has it's benefits, they don't have to go through the sh*te we have to go through with the league and our clubs, it's a much easier way to support a team in the many senses of the term.

Barstoolers don't support - they follow. There's a very big difference.

Ironically, English football isn't in much better shape than the Irish game. It's just that the glaring headlights of the Premiersh!t blind barstooling idiots about what is actually happening in the divisions below it. A significant proportion of clubs in the lower leagues in England have been in administration. And there have been savage points deduction handed-out all over the place in recent years as penalties. Just look at where Chester are in the table at the moment, or Luton and Bournemouth at the start of last season. Scotland isn't immune either : Livingstone this year, Gretna last year.

Ireland hasn't caught a strange dysfunctional footballing bug that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. The intoxicating 'dream' affects all football leagues. Admittedly - propping-up a bar stool supporting a premiersh!t team bankrolled by a foreign billionaire, it's probably hard to appreciate that...

dong

14/09/2009, 2:21 PM

(variables such as crowds and fundraising will all play a part).

I wouldn't call your crowds a variable. 700 - 800 paying fans when you take out season ticket holders and youngsters.
Same for every game although you'll get a lot more for a game against the Hoops.

thischarmingman

14/09/2009, 2:24 PM

peadar1987

14/09/2009, 2:44 PM

Didn't know where else to put this but here's a charming little article from the Independent's residant half-wit:

Irish will always be drawn to fields of Anfield Road
(http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/vincent-hogan/irish-will-always-be-drawn-to-fields-of-anfield-road-1885574.html)

Where's the sick bucket?

Ah, but you forget, there is no LOI team actually in Nenagh, you'd have to drive 40 minutes in to Limerick! And why would someone from Nenagh support Limerick anyway? It's not like they're from Limerick.

You gotta love the stockbarstooler excuse of "The nearest LOI ground is a 5 minute walk away, so why would I go there when it's only a 2 minute walk to the pub?"

Dalymountrower

14/09/2009, 3:00 PM

I wouldn't call your crowds a variable. 700 - 800 paying fans when you take out season ticket holders and youngsters.
Same for every game although you'll get a lot more for a game against the Hoops.

Possible cup semi final, where membership/seasons ticket don`t apply. Might not be a possibility after tonight! A down -to the wire league head to head with Rovers is also likely to increase crowds , then again it might decrease crowds , who knows, it`s a variable!!!
I`m not sure where you are getting the 800 paying fans per game, 500 max members per game I would think, on average, leaving 1,000 freebies? (presumably kids, Referees Assessors , Trappatonis entourage and Bertie) ,speculate away!!

What is clear is that if we don`t win the league it will be a miracle if we are under the 65%. In any event we will be making a loss this year as will every other top-flight club, including the Hoops ,unless they win a major Trophy for the first time in a generation. 100k p.a. for ground rental to SDCC has been a bit of a shocker for them given that they were led to believe they would be paying a peppercorn rent.:eek:

marinobohs

14/09/2009, 3:27 PM

Possible cup semi final, where membership/seasons ticket don`t apply. Might not be a possibility after tonight! A down -to the wire league head to head with Rovers is also likely to increase crowds , then again it might decrease crowds , who knows, it`s a variable!!!
I`m not sure where you are getting the 800 paying fans per game, 500 max members per game I would think, on average, leaving 1,000 freebies? (presumably kids, Referees Assessors , Trappatonis entourage and Bertie) ,speculate away!!

What is clear is that if we don`t win the league it will be a miracle if we are under the 65%. In any event we will be making a loss this year as will every other top-flight club, including the Hoops ,unless they win a major Trophy for the first time in a generation. 100k p.a. for ground rental to SDCC has been a bit of a shocker for them given that they were led to believe they would be paying a peppercorn rent.:eek:

God knows what the reaction of the FAI will be (would much prefer not to find out :)). With them baling out Cork City and allowing Dundalk sign half a team two/three weeks before they renege on players contracts (some very open minded bean counting in HQ ?) I would not be surprised to see another dollop of fudge.
Just hope to God we are not depending on it.
What would happen if two or three teams fell outside the 65% ?

dublinred

14/09/2009, 3:30 PM

Actually broke even in the end up last season. Budget reduced this season plus being still in the cup at this stage is currently helping.

Heard that alright , any money from a cup run is profit , the sanctions at the beginning of the season have helped with the finances but given our reduced budget and a seriuous run of injuries we were struggling with a tiny squad till the transfer window opened and were able to bring it 7 players but will probably have to go though the playoffs to stay up now.

What annoys me is that some clubs are allowed to overspend and then slam on the brakes once enough points are on the board to avoid relegation, I genuinely can't see the FAI hitting clubs over budgets this seaosn as they approved the things in the first place and will probably just roll out the R word as an excuse with a promise to do things better next year.

pineapple stu

14/09/2009, 3:48 PM

What would happen if two or three teams fell outside the 65% ?
I'd say the same as last year.

Mr A

14/09/2009, 3:53 PM

No, no, no. This year they really mean it.

And next year they'll really, really mean it.

Unfortunately you could drive a bus through the holes in licensing.

marinobohs

14/09/2009, 3:58 PM

I'd say the same as last year.

As a matter of interest do loans from Frank And Irene count as income for the purpose of calculating 65% limit (if rumour is true are they not paid as prize money - just not earned yet) ?

All Bohs need to do is get some up front prize money (until about 2020 should do nicely) and problem solved ;) The FAI, whoops, I mean that nice man and woman down the street save the day.:)

Ezeikial

14/09/2009, 4:43 PM

God knows what the reaction of the FAI will be (would much prefer not to find out :)). With them baling out Cork City and allowing Dundalk sign half a team two/three weeks before they renege on players contracts (some very open minded bean counting in HQ ?) I would not be surprised to see another dollop of fudge.
Just hope to God we are not depending on it.
What would happen if two or three teams fell outside the 65% ?

The FAI have no role in allowing/disallowing signings, unless of course a transfer embargo is in place.

While I have major reservations about the transfer window signings at Dundalk in the light of the subsequent pay cuts, it should be noted that there were six July signings set against eight departures since the start of the season. The pays cuts were voluntary across the club staff, and no contracts were reneged upon.

While there may be more then one club outside the 65% rule, Dundalk are well within this limit

HulaHoop

14/09/2009, 5:11 PM

In any event we will be making a loss this year as will every other top-flight club, including the Hoops ,unless they win a major Trophy for the first time in a generation. 100k p.a. for ground rental to SDCC has been a bit of a shocker for them given that they were led to believe they would be paying a peppercorn rent.:eek:

Wrong, we are not stupid enough to set our budget on the basis of winning a trophy. Also we knew and budgeted for at the start of the season the rent payable to SDCC. I would be hugely surprised if we made a loss this year since income has exceeded all expectations.

peadar1987

14/09/2009, 5:15 PM

Wrong, we are not stupid enough to set our budget on the basis of winning a trophy. Also we knew and budgeted for at the start of the season the rent payable to SDCC. I would be hugely surprised if we made a loss this year since income has exceeded all expectations.

STOP PRESS!

REST OF LEAGUE IN BEGRUDGING SHAMS SUCCESS SHOCKER!

So long as your club is showing the rest of the league up by marketing the club well, and still having success on the pitch, without breaking the bank, you're going to have people who are bitter.

Dalymountrower

14/09/2009, 6:03 PM

STOP PRESS!

REST OF LEAGUE IN BEGRUDGING SHAMS SUCCESS SHOCKER!

So long as your club is showing the rest of the league up by marketing the club well, and still having success on the pitch, without breaking the bank, you're going to have people who are bitter.

Eh? Lets see their accounts at the end of the year so.
The point I was making was that no matter how seemingly successful the club, no ones making a profit in this league. This seemingly salient and accurate point was ,admittedly, mere cover for an underhand attack on the "cup specialists"

Hairy Bowsie

14/09/2009, 6:04 PM

Wouldn't be suprised if Rovers don't make a loss, i mean they're even charging kids over 100 quid to be mascots and advertising it as a possible birthday present.

passinginterest

14/09/2009, 6:46 PM

Wouldn't be suprised if Rovers don't make a loss, i mean they're even charging kids over 100 quid to be mascots and advertising it as a possible birthday present.

And the important thing is they're queueing up to pay it.

The Rovers effect in Tallaght really is impressive, I'm just not sure if they can keep it up. I'd be as concerned as anyone that they'll start to overspend and the goodwill and buzz of the first season in Tallaght will fade away and they'll be struggling to balance the books like everyone else. I'd be stunned if they don't turn a tidy profit this season though.

Hairy Bowsie

14/09/2009, 6:59 PM

And the important thing is they're queueing up to pay it.

Is it really? I understand that clubs need to make money where possible but charging that kind of money, for mascotting, is disgraceful in my opinion.

De Town

14/09/2009, 7:03 PM

Wouldn't be suprised if Rovers don't make a loss, i mean they're even charging kids over 100 quid to be mascots and advertising it as a possible birthday present.

Thats madness. Do they give them a jersey or lucky bag of some sort too? Surely they can't be charging over 100 beans just to be a mascot?

Hairy Bowsie

14/09/2009, 7:07 PM

Thats madness. Do they give them a jersey or lucky bag of some sort too? Surely they can't be charging over 100 beans just to be a mascot?

It'd want to be a big lucky bag. I think it's actually closer to the €140 mark but i'm not sure of the exact figure so thats why i said over a tonne

passinginterest

14/09/2009, 7:13 PM

It'd want to be a big lucky bag. I think it's actually closer to the €140 mark but i'm not sure of the exact figure so thats why i said over a tonne

Here's the details:
Give a child a matchday to remember at Tallaght Stadium. Includes:
• A complete SRFC kit.
• Pre-match dressing room visit.
• Lead out Shamrock Rovers.
• Two complimentary stand tickets (and one for mascot).
• A commemorative photo as a memento of the day.
• A commemorative match programme with your picture and details.

Cost per mascot: €175

It's expensive but they do get quite a lot out of it It'd be over €100 for the tickets, programmes, picture and kit anyway.

Hairy Bowsie

14/09/2009, 7:24 PM

Still think it's madness to be honest. They (Rovers) get the kit for free too.

brianw82

14/09/2009, 7:48 PM

Here's the details:
Give a child a matchday to remember at Tallaght Stadium. Includes:
• A complete SRFC kit.
• Pre-match dressing room visit.
• Lead out Shamrock Rovers.
• Two complimentary stand tickets (and one for mascot).
• A commemorative photo as a memento of the day.
• A commemorative match programme with your picture and details.

Cost per mascot: €175

It's expensive but they do get quite a lot out of it It'd be over €100 for the tickets, programmes, picture and kit anyway.

I'd have to say that it's a great deal. A fair whack of money but it gives you a lot, and think how much it'd mean to the kid.

wedwood

14/09/2009, 8:24 PM

And the important thing is they're queueing up to pay it.

The Rovers effect in Tallaght really is impressive, I'm just not sure if they can keep it up. I'd be as concerned as anyone that they'll start to overspend and the goodwill and buzz of the first season in Tallaght will fade away and they'll be struggling to balance the books like everyone else. I'd be stunned if they don't turn a tidy profit this season though.

Don't think the the fan run board will allow Rovers to get into the same sort of trouble as Cork and Derry. There's been 20 years graft and toil to get to Tallaght, which will never be forgotten.

The buzz in Tallaght has gotten better since the Real Madrid game, following the opening of the new stand, which has really ramped up the athmosphere there.

Next year will bring other treats for the fans, such as hopefully European and Setanta Cup participation, as well as the drive to reclaim top spot in the League.

Dalymountrower

14/09/2009, 8:24 PM

. I'd be stunned if they don't turn a tidy profit this season though.[/QUOTE]

Prepare to be stunned so.
Reliably informed that they are budgeting for a small loss unless they get to the cup final or win a trophy. I`m not sure if this includes accumulated losses over previous years since their most recent incarnation. Then again if they can shake down enough kids in Tallaght for the Mascot "Privilege", they could end up in the black

tallaghtfornia

14/09/2009, 8:52 PM

No way in hell you got told that by a "reliable" source. Rovers will be in the black come the end of the season, we offer the mascot a full matchday experience for the money quoted and no need to shake down kids anywhere to fill the mascot slot. We had a small deficit from last season due to falling crowds in Tolka but they are now gone. Rovers are getting big crowds, we have an amazing PR and marketing team, our club shop and range of merchandise are second to none and while some people are concerned about the second season syndrome setting in but I can assure you all we will be worrying about come the end of the season is how we can push our club to the next level.

The Rovers board and members will never ever go over budget again and will never rely on a cup final or title to keep the ship afloat...FACT

Ezeikial

14/09/2009, 8:59 PM

Here's the details:
Give a child a matchday to remember at Tallaght Stadium. Includes:
• A complete SRFC kit.
• Pre-match dressing room visit.
• Lead out Shamrock Rovers.
• Two complimentary stand tickets (and one for mascot).
• A commemorative photo as a memento of the day.
• A commemorative match programme with your picture and details.

Cost per mascot: €175

It's expensive but they do get quite a lot out of it It'd be over €100 for the tickets, programmes, picture and kit anyway.

Brilliant and innovative idea! If it is selling well, it surely means that they have gauged the market tempreture well.

It's simple really - those Rovers fans that perceive it is value may buy, those that dont, won't.

micls

14/09/2009, 9:01 PM

Brilliant and innovative idea! If it is selling well, it surely means that they have gauged the market tempreture well.

It's simple really - those Rovers fans that perceive it is value may buy, those that dont, won't.
Do all clubs not do this?

I know we did for years, havn't been lately, bar the celtic game, not sure why but possibly because we didnt have any jerseys.

passinginterest

14/09/2009, 9:03 PM

You can see here, http://www.shamrockrovers.ie/sponsorship/matchday-mascots what they've sold around 70 by my count.

Ezeikial

14/09/2009, 9:04 PM

Do all clubs not do this?

I know we did for years, havn't been lately, bar the celtic game, not sure why but possibly because we didnt have any jerseys.

I think that it is possible to be the mascot sponsor at mosts clubs, but the innovative twist here is marketing as a birthday present.

micls

14/09/2009, 9:06 PM

I think that it is possible to be the mascot sponsor at mosts clubs, but the innovative twist here is marketing as a birthday present.

Again, I would have thought that was the norm?
Unless kids up ye're way have really cool parents who spend loads of money on them for no particular reason :D

Dalymountrower

14/09/2009, 10:04 PM

never[/U] ever go over budget again and will never rely on a cup final or title to keep the ship afloat...FACT

Just thought I`d save that one for future reference.
Listen theres no denying that our mortal enemies have been savvy about promoting themselves this season, but even with all the hoopla and hugely increased crowds, your Board are saying that they will run at a modest loss this year. That may be to reduce expectations, but its clearly not working in Neverland!

Presumably your Board will be forgiven if a modest loss is the end of year outcome?

stamullendrog

14/09/2009, 10:46 PM

that rovers mascot thing looks good and if its selling then the price is right.suprised more clubs arent using the claret and blue club model that we started this year.its very easy to negate the fiver a week you pay by using the discount card around the town and the prizes in the draws are excellent

www.claretandblueclub.com if you want a look

SkStu

15/09/2009, 1:13 AM