Past life or just weird [Archive] - Page 2

thischarmingman

13/09/2009, 9:45 AM

I love the way Hitler is the yardstick to which everything is measured, i do it myself. Hilter lives on and strong in the form of analogy. By the way i do agree with Mr A too but i just thought i'd point the Hitler thing out :D

:)

There's even a name for it- Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law)

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3]

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.

Hairy Bowsie

13/09/2009, 10:11 AM

You learn something new everyday. Thank you thischarmingman :)

Mr A

13/09/2009, 12:32 PM

The key point here is that you can't just equate science, which while imperfect has clearly got a lot going for it, with essentially random beliefs whose defence tends to be that science doesn't explain everything. The imperfection of science does not excuse the presentation of fairy stories as somehow equally valid.

People should be free to believe whatever the hell they want of course, so long as it doesn't harm others. For instance, religious belief should never ever be a reason to deny your children medical treatment.

And isn't too annoying.

brianw82

13/09/2009, 12:38 PM

So was Hitler's opinion that everything was the Jews fault and something really ought to be done equally valid then?

My example was nicer. Mr. A, improve your people skills. :D

Mr A

13/09/2009, 12:41 PM

In my defence, I was just after one of my periodic attempts to drink my own body weight in cider :)

dahamsta

13/09/2009, 1:47 PM

That aint really fair Mr A as I am not doing anyone any harm by holding my beliefs.One could argue that you're harming your children. Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm not suggesting that it's intentional, but many of your beliefs are illogical and not based in reality. There will be transference of these beliefs to your children, leaving them open to ridicule or worse from their peers. Which of course they should ignore. But that won't happen.

Raheny Red

13/09/2009, 2:04 PM

What hell are faeries?

Mr A

13/09/2009, 2:22 PM

It's just an old spelling of 'fairies' :)

Schumi

13/09/2009, 6:37 PM

What hell are faeries?

Brian Kerr's new gay team.

Scrufil

13/09/2009, 8:37 PM

So ye think there are no 'good folk' out there? I beg to differ. There is a case down in Kerry where a road was re-routed around a fairy hill so no harm would come to drivers. I also know of a spot on the new Galway motorway where the road had to be slight diverted due to a spate of mysterious illnesses, accidents and deaths where they slightly cut into a fairy Fort.

Athlone Town play their games in Lios U� Mhuilleann which is also a a place where the 'good folk' abound. I'd challenge anyone to sit down there for 2 home games and tell me that there's not a fairy breeze always whipping through the ground.

Magicme

13/09/2009, 10:22 PM

One could argue that you're harming your children. Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm not suggesting that it's intentional, but many of your beliefs are illogical and not based in reality. There will be transference of these beliefs to your children, leaving them open to ridicule or worse from their peers. Which of course they should ignore. But that won't happen.

Not true, I dont involve them in my beliefs. Just like I dont make them be veggies just coz I am. I teach them the only true moral codes of live and let live and do onto others as you would have done onto you. After that its up to them. They are smart guys, they know right from wrong and if their mum takes a little comfort in the thought that angels are protecting us all from even worse than we have been through, they dont mind.

Both have rejected conventional religion already (youngest will make his confirmation but just so he doesnt feel left out of his class group, thanks to best schools in area being cathlolic) and I am sure that as long as they go forward with the morals I have instilled in them, they will find their own belief systems and hopefully happiness.

dahamsta

13/09/2009, 10:40 PM

Not true, I dont involve them in my beliefs.You're their mother, they live with you, of course you involve them in your beliefs. Honest to god. :rolleyes:

First

13/09/2009, 11:04 PM

Not true, I dont involve them in my beliefs. Just like I dont make them be veggies just coz I am. I teach them the only true moral codes of live and let live and do onto others as you would have done onto you. After that its up to them. They are smart guys, they know right from wrong and if their mum takes a little comfort in the thought that angels are protecting us all from even worse than we have been through, they dont mind.

Both have rejected conventional religion already (youngest will make his confirmation but just so he doesnt feel left out of his class group, thanks to best schools in area being cathlolic) and I am sure that as long as they go forward with the morals I have instilled in them, they will find their own belief systems and hopefully happiness.

And hopefully to some degree founded in reality ( though there are many here will find my belief that there is a God no different to your beliefs )

Magicme

13/09/2009, 11:08 PM

Dam forgot Adam lives in the cupboard under my stairs....wait that must be my imagination running wild, I dont have a cupboard under my stairs!

Adam I dont involve them in various aspects of my life so I dont see how this is any different. They know I believe in Angels but thats about it.

Aye First but would that be my reality or yours? ;)

elroy

13/09/2009, 11:20 PM

Kinda on the general topic and in particular stories of dreams, people talking in their sleep etc, I have always thought the story of Edgar Cayce is particularly fascinating. Essentially this guy would go to sleep/in a trance and was provided answers to questions posed to him. Provided medical solutions unheard off at the time as well as various past and future prophecies. Saw a programme on him on the history channel a few years back, this is worth a quick read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

sligoman

13/09/2009, 11:44 PM

qFHbwikzNds

stann

14/09/2009, 8:02 AM

You're their mother, they live with you, of course you involve them in your beliefs. Honest to god. :rolleyes:

That may be a little unfair. Criticising beliefs is one thing, but the girl has said a couple of times that she doesn't pass them on. In fairness not accepting that, without knowing anything of the situation, comes across as hectoring a wee bit.

I have always thought the story of Edgar Cayce is particularly fascinating. Essentially this guy would go to sleep/in a trance and was provided answers to questions posed to him. Provided medical solutions unheard off at the time as well as various past and future prophecies.

Another charlatan. Got kind of caught out on the pyramid thing. Pity he wasn't around more recently, Bob Mills would have had a field day with him. :D
(can't youtube any In Bed With Me Dinners at work, will have a look later)

bennocelt

14/09/2009, 8:52 AM

surprised we havent mentioned the reptiles yet, I mean really!!!:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZGh5cCiEF8&feature=related

dahamsta

14/09/2009, 9:11 AM

That may be a little unfair. Criticising beliefs is one thing, but the girl has said a couple of times that she doesn't pass them on. In fairness not accepting that, without knowing anything of the situation, comes across as hectoring a wee bit.It's not hectoring stann, it's exasperation. You can't live with someone without their beliefs and theories rubbing off on you, either positively or negatively*. That goes doubly for a parent. Even negative can be bad in the case of silliness like this, since it a negative reaction can often go too far.

adam

* I don't mean "in a good way" or "in a bad way", I mean "to follow blindly" or "rebel against".

Magicme

14/09/2009, 9:48 AM

It's not hectoring stann, it's exasperation. You can't live with someone without their beliefs and theories rubbing off on you, either positively or negatively*. That goes doubly for a parent. Even negative can be bad in the case of silliness like this, since it a negative reaction can often go too far.

adam

* I don't mean "in a good way" or "in a bad way", I mean "to follow blindly" or "rebel against".

Same could be said if I was Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddist etc. It is the lot of the parent to screw their children up in some way and it is the lot of the child to either follow or rebel. I respect my children enough to allow them to choose and if the worst I do to them is let them believe in Angels and the inherent goodness of people, then I am a happy parent. I do not force my beliefs on them and I encourage them to find their own path. Its the best that can be done.

It is of no consequence to me what your opinion of my beliefs are or how you view my methods of bringing up my children. I do not judge you for eating meat or supporting a particular football team and would request a similar less judgemental treatment from you, but then I believe in justice and always try to see the best in people and I realise others dont always view things from a similar standpoint.

My beliefs are no less valid than any religious beliefs and I think they should be afforded the same level of tolerence.

dahamsta

14/09/2009, 10:03 AM

I don't really have any religious beliefs, so the point is moot. If I have my way my children won't be baptised, and I'll defect from the church (http://www.countmeout.ie/) I was baptised into without my permission. Unfortunately modern life could make that hell for my children, so I'll have to take that under advisement.

I don't agree that it's the lot of the parent to screw their children up, that seems a terribly negative way of thinking about it. IMHO the lot of a parent is to make sure they do the good things their parents did and don't do the bad things they did; all on top of good foundation of science, fact, and general common sense.

I'll leave it there, I'm never going to subscribe to ethereal impossibilities like "angels", and it seems obvious you're not going to do any actual factual study of the things you claim to believe in. There's nothing left to be said in light of that.

adam

Magicme

14/09/2009, 10:32 AM

When I said it was the lot of the parents to screw their children up I meant that no matter what you do for the best of your children they will always find fault in it. We all "blame" our parents for something we dont agree with, yours being brought up in a church you dont believe in. Ditto. Totally agree that you do the good things your parents did (love, plenty of cuddles, tolerance and encouragement of their individuality and moral codes among them) and try not to do the bad things (over criticism, inflicting belief systems etc) which is exactly what I am doing with my boys.

If you ever have the pleasure of meeting them Adam, I would challenge you to find more grounded, secure, confident, well mannenerd, intelligent and socially competent individuals. Not looking for an award but I have done that all on my own and it has been a struggle at times and the comfort and strenght I have found in my spiritualism has allowed me to carry on through the darkest times so whether it is based on science or not, it has in reality given me the courage to provide my children with a stable, loving life despite their father's neglect and what I would consider, an abuse of his role as a dad.

We are never going to agree on this as I am a person ruled by heart, much to my detrement on occasion, and am an instinctive human being. I know within myself that my path is the right one for me but not necessairly for others.

Oh and when my sons have compeleted their education I will be taking a similar step of removing myself from all links with the church. So there is some common ground!

dahamsta

14/09/2009, 10:44 AM

If you ever have the pleasure of meeting them Adam, I would challenge you to find more grounded, secure, confident, well mannenerd, intelligent and socially competent individuals.I'm sure they're great kids Magicme, but show me a parent that doesn't say that. Even the people on Jerry Springer think they're great parents.

I am a person ruled by heart, much to my detrement on occasion, and am an instinctive human being.We're all ruled by our hearts to a certain extent - I imagine even Richard Dawkins would admit to making decisions based on a "hunch" once or twice in his life - but it should never play more than a minor part in life. There might be less detrimental occasions if you looked more towards facts and research than luck and "angels".

Oh and when my sons have compeleted their education I will be taking a similar step of removing myself from all links with the church. So there is some common ground!There's always common ground. But I'll always consider anything beyond the simplest and least affective superstitions silly, and I'll always consider belief in anything that has been proven to be false simply stupid.

Angels are silly. Homeopathy is stupid.

adam

A N Mouse

14/09/2009, 11:50 AM

They **** you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.

Basically live and let live, beliefs should be personal, and it's better to believe in something.

micls

14/09/2009, 2:29 PM

and it's better to believe in something.

:confused: Why?

Mr A

14/09/2009, 2:37 PM

It's better to believe that one should do what is right because it is right than to require some outside force to encourage/require/enforce morality.

SkStu

14/09/2009, 2:58 PM

Science is the new God.

kingdom hoop

15/09/2009, 11:55 AM

It's better to believe that one should do what is right because it is right than to require some outside force to encourage/require/enforce morality.

I agree. But, and assuming we're talking about morality, how do you know what's right to do?

I hope you to answer that, but it's partly a rhetorical question. I think it is never a zero-sum game between the hard science-y stuff and the softer stuff. Rather, they both combine together to deliver what I would conceive as the right outlook on life. Thus, dismissing one, or over-hyping another is, in my opinion, unwise. I think the balance is slightly off in this thread.

It's a bit like the question "can't you enjoy yourself without drink/drugs/sugary sweets/whatever?" - yes, I can, but I can enjoy myself more with them. I can make good decisions with the zealous use of facts, but I can make much better decisions by using one combined process informed by both facts and a heightened spiritual awareness. Ignoring reality is never good, but nor is closing your mind to spiritual growth.

Unless of course you always know what is right by simply being born knowing. If you do, I bow at your feet to acknowledge you as the Second Coming. :p

co. down green

15/09/2009, 1:10 PM

jesus i used to love loop the loops, do they still sell them:)

Still available :)

http://www.unilever.ie/ourbrands/foods/hb_kids.asp

JerseyRed

16/09/2009, 12:43 AM

Always loved Brunch lollies.

NeilMcD

16/09/2009, 2:04 PM

Just ordred Bad Science from Play.com. Was listenting to him on BBC FIve live with Simon Mayo. There is a debate tonight in London with the Science minister in the UK. Should be fun.

Sligo Hornet

16/09/2009, 2:32 PM

thischarmingman

16/09/2009, 6:14 PM

Just ordred Bad Science from Play.com. Was listenting to him on BBC FIve live with Simon Mayo. There is a debate tonight in London with the Science minister in the UK. Should be fun.

I like Simon Mayo, he's very good at grounding Mark Kermode at times during their film podcast- they make a very listenable duo.

Make sure you come back and post what you thought of Bad Science when you're finished it. ;)