Sheringham calls Townsend a "fake Irishman"!

[Wolfie]

......... he's also a dreadful pundit and generally comes across as a smug smart arse who believes he's funnier then he actually is.

Majority of Foot.ie posting community looks and shoes and whistles tune......................

[Shelsman]

Tony Blair's kids and Mel Gibson also have Irish Passports. The Blairs qualified because Tony's mother was from Donegal. Mel qualified because he made a film here (I sh!t you not).

:confused:

By the way, the last referendum ye passed (can't remember it but will try to dig it out) entitles ANY person born in ANY part of the UK to gain Irish Citizenship :mad:. Obviously whatever money the voters were promised if they voted 'Yes' was more important, though I suspect that people were oblivious to this (Matt Cooper kept ignoring my texts on The Last Word!).

See section 4 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 on:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0038/index.html

[Murfinator]

By the way, the last referendum ye passed (can't remember it but will try to dig it out) entitles ANY person born in ANY part of the UK to gain Irish Citizenship :mad:.


What on earth, that's not true.

[John83]

See section 4 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 on:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0038/index.html
That statute means that if you're born here to and English parent, you are entitled to be a citizen. Other nationalities may have to be resident for some period before their children born here are automatically Irish.

Perhaps I've missed something, but you're the one making an incredible claim, so please quote the specific line you think confers citizenship to all British people.

[tricky_colour]

Andy Townsend's grandmother came from Castleisland in County Kerry.


Old article on nationality here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-why-charltons-men-are-the-guardians-of-irish-identity-as-irelands-squad-for-the-world-cup-finals-is-named-eamon-dunphy-believes-that-the-questioning-of-their-pedigree-at-home-and-abroad-is-unreasonable-and-pays-insufficient-regard-to-their-real-ability-1437587.html

[boovidge]

I'm sure everyone on here is in Townsend's close circle of friends and so can make claims about him and his national loyalties without prejudice and guess work :rolleyes:

[paul_oshea]

Shelsman Mel Gibsons mother is either from longford or has connection.

Edit: not that i usually use wikipedia but still:

"Gibson's first name comes from Saint Mel, fifth-century Irish saint, and founder of Gibson's mother's native diocese, Ardagh, while his second name, Colm-Cille,[6] is shared by an Irish saint[7] and is name of the parish in County Longford where Anne Reilly was born and raised. Because of his mother, Gibson holds dual Irish and American citizenship"

[Longfordian]

True. My old fella remembers hearing about him being back in Longford at some stage before he was really famous.

[tricky_colour]

People will be saying Muhammad Ali is a fake Irishman next. :rolleyes:

[lopez]

Been away for a while and just come back to check on the playoffs. Nice to see that on other subjects we still get the same c*jones being spoken


Das ist gut. You must have Aryan blut zu play for Irlandski. Sieg heil. Only 100% blut vill qualify. Ve don't vant mischlings (i.e. contaminated blut) despite the fact that millions of Irelanskis had to emigrate to feed their families. Only 100%. Hohren Sie mir. No contaminated blut!! Nein nein nein. Niemals. Never, never. A blut test for all who vant to play for uns. Dat's vat I say.

Sieg heil.
I see what you're getting at, although even the Nazis regarded that not being born in Germany did not disqualify you from being German.


I don't understand it, to me if you leave a country you're choosing country B over country A as your preferred home which surely translates to it being your country of choice. But then I'm from a different generation so it's hard for me to relate to the situation people in the past were in.Where exactly the f*ck were you when the history class started discussing emigration? Oh I forgot the 'E' word is about as likely to be brought up in Irish schools as the 'N' word being brought up at a Barak Obama barbeque. Get a grip! The vast majority of Irish people - in fact count that as the vast majority of anyone - left their country not because they're choosing one country over another. They left because they couldn't find any work. What: The fact that there has been loads of work in Ireland over the last ten years and that emigration has gone out of fashion is totally coincidental?


Tony Blair's kids and Mel Gibson also have Irish Passports. The Blairs qualified because Tony's mother was from Donegal. Mel qualified because he made a film here (I sh!t you not).

By the way, the last referendum ye passed (can't remember it but will try to dig it out) entitles ANY person born in ANY part of the UK to gain Irish Citizenship :mad:. Obviously whatever money the voters were promised if they voted 'Yes' was more important, though I suspect that people were oblivious to this (Matt Cooper kept ignoring my texts on The Last Word!). :rolleyes: Where did you get all that rubbish from?

My two cents: Townsend's grandparents are/were three English and one Irish. I think that probably sums up what I see as his real identity.

[jbyrne]

He also always refers to England as 'we'.

this is not true

[centre mid]

A bit pedantic but he does refer to England & things Enlgish as "us" and "we" on his talksport morning program,(I suppose it would sound silly if he was saying "you across the water" when talking about England), not that it makes a blind bit of difference .

[Wolfie]

Townsend, who was born in Britain and has an English accent has given far more commitment to Irish football than the likes of Stephen Ireland, - born in Ireland and has an Irish accent - ever will.

[tetsujin1979]

My two cents: Townsend's grandparents are/were three English and one Irish. I think that probably sums up what I see as his real identity.
one quarter Irish?

[shaneker]

Townsend, who was born in Britain and has an English accent has given far more commitment to Irish football than the likes of Stephen Ireland, - born in Ireland and has an Irish accent - ever will.

Never was a truer word spoken. Tets said it earlier - some of the attitudes on threads like this are just embarrassing. How anyone can say that Townsend isn't Irish after what he gave us on the pitch is beyond me.

[tricky_colour]

If Andy had been a bit sharper and had a few more Irish grand parents he would have came back with "Well Wayne Rooney is a fake Englishman" and the show could have ended in a jolly old fist fight :D
(in which case my money would be on Townsend ;))

[tricky_colour]

Townsend, who was born in Britain and has an English accent has given far more commitment to Irish football than the likes of Stephen Ireland, - born in Ireland and has an Irish accent - ever will.


Quite right, if anyone deserves the title fake Irishman it is Stephen Ireland.

[Razors left peg]

So much sh1t being talked in this thread its unreal.I have cousins that were born and raised in England, their parents we brought up over there but their Grandparents were from Galway. They are all football mad and if any of them were good enough they would have a serious hard time choosing between England and Ireland to represent.Ive watched Ireland games with them and England games and they dont have any less passion when watching one or the other.They are all extremely proud to regard themselves as Irish but equally proud to be English.They have more passion for the Ireland football team than most other people I know and I promise if anyone told any of them that the had no right to call themselves Irish or wouldnt have the right to play for us they would be extremely angry. There might only be 4 million or so people on our small island but world wide there would be a hell of alot of upset people if they were told they didnt have the right to call themselves Irish

[Drumcondra 69er]

this is not true

Without meaning to be petty yes it is.

Have seen it in his mirror column, have heard him use it on Football Focus.

He also refers to Ireland as 'we' and actually had the gall to pretend he was worried that England might win the World Cup on the Last Word last night.

The man is a media whore. :p

[jbyrne]

Without meaning to be petty yes it is.

Have seen it in his mirror column, have heard him use it on Football Focus.

He also refers to Ireland as 'we' and actually had the gall to pretend he was worried that England might win the World Cup on the Last Word last night.

The man is a media whore. :p

well, i've never heard it even once in the hundreds of times i've heard him talk about international football

[Murfinator]

Townsend, who was born in Britain and has an English accent has given far more commitment to Irish football than the likes of Stephen Ireland, - born in Ireland and has an Irish accent - ever will.

If it wasn't for Ireland's goals in the last campaign we would have drawn to Wales and San Marino and lost against Cyprus and finished second last in the group probably losing the 3rd seed we got for this campaign in the process.

My point is he did a lot for us in the short time he was playing, he definetly was committed for the team in that timeframe too.

[backstothewall]

There was any number of postings i could have quoted to make this point, so I won't bother. Suffice to say a lot of people are pointing out that Andy Townsend gave his all for Ireland. I have no disagreement with that. It does not worry me that as an Englishman we disappointed him in 1988 either.

Andy Townsend is an Irish legend. What sticks in my throat is that despite receiving 70 caps for Ireland, Townsend still hasn't decided if he is English or Irish. I'm sure Jayo McAtter might have been cheering on England in 1990, but your never going to hear him refer to England as "we" today.

Some people have got a national identity that is genuinly torn between 2 countries, but when you have 70 caps for Ireland, and none for England, you should know that your Irish.

I'm not saying he is a fake Irishman. He is a fake Englishman. To quote someone with a similar conflict, "being born in a stable does not make one a horse"

[Docboy]

Have never understood this antipathy towards our players that might happen to have an English accent. I remember one of my teachers in national school passionately pointing out that these players, perhaps Cascarino aside, all have Irish blood coursing through their veins, however diluted.

This country has had a long history of emmigration & I for one don't think that two generations is stretching that lineage. Moreover, it wouldn't make sense for those who work as pundits to keep banging on about their Irishness, no less so than Terry Wogan etc.

Perhaps it's because my dad spent a large part of his childhood growing up in London but I consider each and everyone of them has an equal right to call themselves Irish. We shouldn't let the view of outsiders colour our own.

[bennocelt]

As a person who is married to a foreigner i could give a little johnny feck if my son doesnt declare for ireland:D

[Colbert Report]

As a person who is married to a foreigner i could give a little johnny feck if my son doesnt declare for ireland:D

You mean you COUDLN'T give a johnny feck right?

[bennocelt]

You mean you COUDLN'T give a johnny feck right?

yeah my mistake:p:):)

[Drumcondra 69er]

well, i've never heard it even once in the hundreds of times i've heard him talk about international football

2nd article I googled.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/mark-lawrenson/Robert-Green-is-a-good-keeper-but-David-James-should-still-be-England-s-No-1-article145575.html

"James is still the keeper who makes fewest mistakes, has a presence and gives his defence confidence.

As for the rest, Green is a good shot stopper but does not always inspire confidence on crosses. Green is being given a good run but still has not nailed down the place.

Foster, meanwhile, has not played enough games at the top level for us to be sure yet, although he has all the attributes."

[EastTerracer]

2nd article I googled.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/mark-lawrenson/Robert-Green-is-a-good-keeper-but-David-James-should-still-be-England-s-No-1-article145575.html

"James is still the keeper who makes fewest mistakes, has a presence and gives his defence confidence.

As for the rest, Green is a good shot stopper but does not always inspire confidence on crosses. Green is being given a good run but still has not nailed down the place.

Foster, meanwhile, has not played enough games at the top level for us to be sure yet, although he has all the attributes."


To be fair to Lawrenson on anything that might get printed in the Mirror (or the Irish Times for that matter) he doesn't actually write them. Some junior hack rings him up and asks him 3 or 4 questions (in this case the question about England's goalkeepers). The journo then writes up an article using selective quotes. In all likelihood Lawrenson probably never reads the piece but, if he does, I would hope that he gives them a bollocking for putting "us" in. I've always felt that he goes out of his way to say "england" rather than "we" when he's on the BBC - he may may forgotten once or twice though.;)

[theworm2345]

As someone who really is as fake an Irishman as is really possible (OK I do have my 1/16th) I can understand Townsend's ability to laugh it off when it is said in jest (which it seems Sheringham sort of did, he seemed to sort of pause and think "is this over the line" for a second). Even if not said in jest it wouldn't bother me too much. I'm not really Irish but I support Ireland. Obviously its not the same as playing for Ireland but I guess the concepts are sort of alike.

Anyway, I have dug up the clip (Thanks to Tiggzz of Maxxed for capping the post game). There does seem to be a moment there where Townsend looks like he could punch Sheringham. To be honest I'm not really sure what caused him to bring up Townsend's Irishness (or lackthereof, I'm not making an judgments), as he was talking about Capello's style of management, how close he is with the members of the squad and how there are no players who are certain to be in the squad. I suppose it could have been the "giving Sven the runaround" jibe or perhaps he implied that Sheringham was picked not because of his form or ability but for another reason (though he sort of smiled when he said it), I'm too tired to tell right now.

Here is the clip for download for those of us who don't bother watching England matches:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tzzjzm0amnk

[irishfan86]

Hard to say there...I think Townsend was shocked more than anything.

While it would have been nice for him to say something along the lines of, "I'm proud of my time playing for Ireland," or what have you, what would it prove, especially if things escalated on national television?

The way it was handled, it will fade from the public consciousness apart from die hard freaks like us that analyze every detail, but we don't really matter.

If Townsend kicked up a fuss over it, it could cost him punditry jobs.

Right now he's the safe, predictable guy that churns out non-offensive, consistent stuff, and various media companies are happy to employ him.

If he blows up over a little dig (after he had one himself), it gains him nothing really...

[jbyrne]

2nd article I googled.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/mark-lawrenson/Robert-Green-is-a-good-keeper-but-David-James-should-still-be-England-s-No-1-article145575.html

"James is still the keeper who makes fewest mistakes, has a presence and gives his defence confidence.

As for the rest, Green is a good shot stopper but does not always inspire confidence on crosses. Green is being given a good run but still has not nailed down the place.

Foster, meanwhile, has not played enough games at the top level for us to be sure yet, although he has all the attributes."

come on, is that the best you can come up with? us could easily, and probably does mean, "us pundits" or "us people" not us as in "us english". he couldve written that article about any player in the world and used the word "us" the way he did

[Bluebeard]

Quite right, if anyone deserves the title fake Irishman it is Stephen Ireland.

Yup, completely agree. He doesn't even have any Irish grandparents.

[ifk101]

It's quite simple; Ireland needed a midfielder, Townsend wanted international football, the bandwagon supports a winning team. Everybody's happy?

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'm always amazed at the way some people just don't get the "dual" bit of dual nationality.

25 years growing up in England and he's to be condemned because he used the word 'us' in a commentary. Never mind he gave sterling (no puns) service to Us (that's us Us not them Us), played out of his skin, turned up for B Internationals when he was captain of the first team just to give a bit of leadership and consistency...
short memories.

Legally -and it's all that matters -Townsend is as Irish as the biggest sean bean bocht gaelgeoir, hurley swinging, timber-showing schkelper out there ...and if they don't like it -F*** 'Em.

[Kingdom]

Been away for a while and just come back to check on the playoffs. Nice to see that on other subjects we still get the same c*jones being spoken


I see what you're getting at, although even the Nazis regarded that not being born in Germany did not disqualify you from being German.

Where exactly the f*ck were you when the history class started discussing emigration? Oh I forgot the 'E' word is about as likely to be brought up in Irish schools as the 'N' word being brought up at a Barak Obama barbeque. Get a grip! The vast majority of Irish people - in fact count that as the vast majority of anyone - left their country not because they're choosing one country over another. They left because they couldn't find any work. What: The fact that there has been loads of work in Ireland over the last ten years and that emigration has gone out of fashion is totally coincidental?

:rolleyes: Where did you get all that rubbish from?

My two cents: Townsend's grandparents are/were three English and one Irish. I think that probably sums up what I see as his real identity.

God I missed you! :):D

[Wolfie]

Townsend, who was born in Britain and has an English accent has given far more commitment to Irish football than the likes of Stephen Ireland, - born in Ireland and has an Irish accent - ever will.


If it wasn't for Ireland's goals in the last campaign we would have drawn to Wales and San Marino and lost against Cyprus and finished second last in the group probably losing the 3rd seed we got for this campaign in the process.

My point is he did a lot for us in the short time he was playing, he definetly was committed for the team in that timeframe too.

Lets get further bogged down in somantics.

Read my original statement again - I pointed out that Townsend was "far more commited" as opposed to Stephen Ireland never having any commitment whatsoever.

In summary - Townsend never walked out and f*cked around the team and fans with coy interviews about a possible return.

[Shelsman]

Andy Townsend is an Irish legend. What sticks in my throat is that despite receiving 70 caps for Ireland, Townsend still hasn't decided if he is English or Irish. I'm sure Jayo McAtter might have been cheering on England in 1990, but your never going to hear him refer to England as "we" today.

Some people have got a national identity that is genuinly torn between 2 countries, but when you have 70 caps for Ireland, and none for England, you should know that your Irish.

I'm not saying he is a fake Irishman. He is a fake Englishman. To quote someone with a similar conflict, "being born in a stable does not make one a horse"

Can't a person have dual nationality? If a person has an Italian mother and a Swiss father, can't he feel he is a Italian and Swiss? What if this same person was born in France and grew up in France -does that him French?

Just because a person has played professional sport for a country doesn't mean that they must exclusively belong to that country from that point onwards. Similarly, they're not forced to revoke their citizenship for other countries. The fact is that Andy Townsend is both English and Irish. Only sport forces you to choose one over the other, but just for sporting competitions of that code.

[The Legend]

I think we can all agree that Sheringham is a w**ker!

[seanfhear]

I think we can all agree that Sheringham is a w**ker!
Well he has not gained any Irish admirers with his childish remarks.

He was a good player and if he was able to run(fast) he would have been really top class.

[brine3]

I just don't think people understand the immigrant experience sometimes.

Ireland would be my first choice (born there to Irish parents), but I would be proud to represent Canada where I was raised if asked.

I don't think this attitude makes me any less Irish or Canadian.

No, they don't understand. The people who don't understand are all born and raised in Ireland and have never lived anywhere else. Yours and my experience (born in Ireland to Irish parents but moved overseas as a young kid) is frankly beyond their comprehension.

But there are 1 million Irish passport holders living overseas (mostly economic refugees from the 1980s and their kids) who understand exactly what you mean.

Townsend captained the Irish team at the World Cup in 1994 when England stayed home and watched on the telly. It's obvious that he put loyalty between the two teams aside and chose to play for the stronger team. :D

[Gather round]

No, they don't understand. The people who don't understand are all born and raised in Ireland and have never lived anywhere else. Yours and my experience (born in Ireland to Irish parents but moved overseas as a young kid) is frankly beyond their comprehension...But there are 1 million Irish passport holders living overseas (mostly economic refugees from the 1980s and their kids) who understand exactly what you mean.


Steady on Brine. While obviously some people will always be a bit unimaginative or narrow minded, I'm sure most who lived all their lives in Ireland can well understand why others had to move, and why their kids feel a connection to the old country. Would you say that the experience of those who have never left is beyond your comprehension?

Anyway, I've the hump with Townsend. Nothing to do with international football, I agree he was one of your top players. It's just his claim to have given Chelsea "three good years", when as all fans know he was phoning it in for the last season and a half :mad:

[kennedmc]

Its important to remember that Townsend, Cascarino and Sheringham are really good friends - thick as thieves and all that. sheringham knows Andy well enough to get away with saying things like that and not to cause Townsend offence.

Personally I think Townsend was a terrific player for Ireland and always gave 100%. If he uses the 'us' word occassionaly who gives a sh!t? He was with us when it mattered

[Ceirtlis]

He made a smart comment about Sheringham and got one back, who gives a **** really. If anybody has their mind changed about him regarding the whole "we" issue then that is just sad. He is more than entitled to call England "we" having been brought up there.

[youngirish]

Can't a person have dual nationality? If a person has an Italian mother and a Swiss father, can't he feel he is a Italian and Swiss? What if this same person was born in France and grew up in France -does that him French?

Just because a person has played professional sport for a country doesn't mean that they must exclusively belong to that country from that point onwards. Similarly, they're not forced to revoke their citizenship for other countries. The fact is that Andy Townsend is both English and Irish. Only sport forces you to choose one over the other, but just for sporting competitions of that code.

Andy Townsend is only slightly more Irish than the Queen. He played for the Irish football team to enhance his career. There is nothing Irish about him. And yes I know he gave 100% how does this make him Irish ffs? It's because that was his style of play and he was a good player. He also gave 100% on the pitch for Villa does that make him a Brummie? Being a good football player doesn't automatically qualify you as being Irish it's not a question on the passport application. Cascarino is cut from the same cloth. Anyone claiming either is Irish because they put on a football jersey a handful of times a year is deluded.

I make a clear distinction between the likes of Cascarino, Townsend and Lawrenson to people born here that moved abroad or people born to Irish parents abroad who have always had some affinity towards Ireland such as the likes of Kilbane. The latter are Irish the former are footballers advancing their careers because they were either too sh*t to play for England or we nabbed them at a time when they looked unlikely to get into the England team. Try to understand the difference.

[geysir]

Andy is an Irish citizen, undisputed fact.
He is a dual national, also an undisputed fact.

The exercise of quantifying and comparing what that "Irish" means, is delving into the irrelevant and sometime ridiculous realms of individual subjectivity.

A Gaelgoir can assert that you are not fully Irish unless you are fluent in Gaelic.

[elroy]

"We" and "us" is on Today fm as i type talking about "we" and "us" (ie Ireland)

[Supreme feet]

Like many others, Townsend was approached and 'recruited' by Jack Charlton as a pragmatic method of strengthening the team in a key area when there were no real Irish-born prospects coming through. Townsend may not have been fully conscious of his Irish background, but Charlton would argue that his job was about results, and to get the best players available to us, by hook or by crook. If any fans back then had a moral dilemma about that, they were in a quiet minority.

Houghton, Aldridge, Townsend and Cascarino may not have been as 'Irish' as we'd have liked them to be, but their contributions to the team, and the resultant success, helped to bring football to a new level in Irish public consciousness, and helped increase the numbers playing at youth level. In doing so, Charlton and his 'mercenaries' did a great service to Irish football, something that neither Hand nor Giles could achieve with their mostly Irish-born sides.

Following on from the Charlton years, the U-18 and U-16 teams that won the ECs in 1998 had relatively few 'recruits' (Alex O'Reilly, Shaun Byrne, Liam George off the top of my head), and last Saturday, we only had two English-born players in the starting XI, both with stronger Irish lineage than Townsend had. I think that the 'recruitment' of players like Townsend was a necessary evil - one I would not like to see repeated (like in Jon Macken's case), but was probably needed at the time.

[Dodge]

Do you work in passport control or something?

I worked with aer lingus, so kind of...

Anyway, here's Irish legend Owen Coyle on the Scotland game v macedonia.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/10/owen-coyle-george-burley-scotland


But I was at the game on Saturday and in the second half I thought we were outstanding against Macedonia

Nothing wrong with dual nationality. Just make Ireland #1 ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Great post Supreme Feet, that's pretty much how I feel too.

[geysir]

Anyway, here's Irish legend Owen Coyle on the Scotland game v macedonia.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/10/owen-coyle-george-burley-scotland
"But I was at the game on Saturday and in the second half I thought we were outstanding against Macedonia"


Nothing wrong with dual nationality. Just make Ireland #1 ;)

re your example of dual national Owen.
Maybe you were unaware that Owen turned down a chance to represent Scotland in order to declare for Ireland and his first game shortly after was against Scotland.
Or maybe you were aware and using it as an example of plain simple dual reality.