Cyprus V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 5th September 2009 - World Cup 2010 Q

[elroy]

im fecking wrecked after that, poor performance, really looked like the long ball Jack era all over again. Didnt really work at any stage of the game. Although we created a few decent chances, its ironic that our best passing phase of the game was straight after we scored we played the ball around and maintained possession well.......the only time in the game as well.

Havent double checked this, but looks like results have gone our way today, particularly the hungary result.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams

[Noelys Guitar]

Will we beat a half decent team over 2 legs?


No.

Actually. Yes. We will bore them to death in a footabll sense. I really mean that. This old style Italian stuff is misunderstood. It is awful to watch when not played by purists. But effective when half played by our current squad.

[SkStu]

Cyprus can be a real problem at home they have taken points off better teams than us I will list them later!

Later...Germany 1:1, Ireland 5:2 Wales 1:0 :)

we'll be playing better teams than Cyprus in the playoff and/or world cup. We have the players to be putting teams like Cyprus away with minimum fuss. Certainly if we're expecting to actually win a game in South Africa.

[4tothefloor]

Robbie Keane eircom man of the match? :p That just says it all really.

On another note, I wonder are any of the lads banging the Italian translator? Surely :D

[Eirambler]

Havent double checked this, but looks like results have gone our way today, particularly the hungary result.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_o f_second-placed_teams

Ya, things went OK around Europe for us today.

I just can't figure us out though. We looked awful for most of the game tonight but we're still somehow grinding out the results all the same.

On one side, the pitch was awful, the atmosphere was crap, its a tricky place to go and I'd have gladly taken any sort of win before kick-off. Didn't see any yellow cards either.

But still, you worry that we will eventually br found out the way we're playing. Clearly Trap sees we've got no centre midfield and we're just skipping it with long balls, but its hard to see that changing anytime soon so we're going to be stuck with this gameplan. Just awful to watch.

[Noelys Guitar]

[QUOTE=SkStu;1226277]we'll be playing better teams than Cyprus in the playoff and/or world cup. We have the players to be putting teams like Cyprus away with minimum fuss. Certainly if we're expecting to actually win a game in South Africa.[/QUOT

I completely agree. We looked like a strangers team for a lot of the game. But we won. And I expect Bulgaria to beat Italy on Wednesday comfortably throwing this group wide open.

[Stuttgart88]

I wish there was Ctrl [X] function on my computer I could just press to save me typing "there's not much wrong with this team that a good central midfield wouldn't rectify".

I like the two lads and Whelan nearly scored a belter and Andrews set up Doyle's goal, but CM was just non-existent tonight, doing none of what a functional CM would do.

I vividly recall typing that CM was fully functional away to Norway. That's a long time ago.

Watching the RTE analysis - come on Owls Fan and the rest, tell me it wasn't spot on - I think Souness as manager and Reid and Reid in CM and we'd be much better than we are.

It's ok to say that Whelan & Andrews are making us less porous but if we could actually hang on to the ball and actually cause a threat to the opposition then we'd be in better shape.

That said, 2-1 Ireland. Better than 5-2 to Cyprus. Job done. Next...

[irishultra]

really happy with win and im not gonna go into the performance. we are muck really. i'd say shels could have put on a better performance against that cyprus team than ireland did tonight. difference is they probably wouldn't have won because they don't have a keane, duff or doyle but yeah just poor but the results what matter.

also wtf is up with a poor crowd for cyprus? why are the crowds apathetic towards national team but yet the league gets healthy attendances?


by the way the exuse that we don't have the players doesn't wash against a team like cyprus. they should be able to dominate games.

[Noelys Guitar]

I wish there was Ctrl [X] function on my computer I could just press to save me typing "there's not much wrong with this team that a good central midfield wouldn't rectify".

I like the two lads and Whelan nearly scored a belter and Andrews set up Doyle's goal, but CM was just non-existent tonight, doing none of what a functional CM would do.

I vividly recall typing that CM was fully functional away to Norway. That's a long time ago.

Watching the RTE analysis - come on Owls Fan and the rest, tell me it wasn't spot on - I think Souness as manager and Reid and Reid in CM and we'd be much better than we are.

It's ok to say that Whelan & Andrews are making us less porous but if we could actually hang on to the ball and actually cause a threat to the opposition then we'd be in better shape.

That said, 2-1 Ireland. Better than 5-2 to Cyprus. Job done. Next...

Almost completely agree. But Whelan and Andrews tonight did their jobs. They can't do the Andy Reid or Chippy Brady(unfortunately). But for me they really did their jobs. I was ****ed of with most of the rest of the team. (Given excluded). I'm depressed about today in all reality. Afraid of selling the soul to qualify. But thankully still shallow enough to ignore all such ****!

[geysir]

Trap pretty much said the same about CM tonight.
It's an unplugged game plan.

Great to celebrate a lovely winner and also for the fans out there.

[Stuttgart88]

I was singing Dunne's praises earlier this week / month. He was clumsy, awkward and downright unprofessional at times tonight.

[irishultra]

Definetly, I said to my dad that I can see why Man City sold him. Souness was right what he said after about how he's a step away from being a top defender.

[Stuttgart88]

I was ****ed of with most of the rest of the team. (Given excluded).

Yeah, but it's a CM's job to show to the back 4 for the ball. A CMer is typically the guy with a gift for football. He has the vision, the first touch & the ability to protect the ball and come away with it under pressure. We don't have that. If we did, the players you berate for not playing well enough would have played better. Instead the back 4 hoofed it all night.

Billsthoughts, whare are you and what would your Spanish mate think?

Still happy though :)

[Noelys Guitar]

Yeah, but it's a CM's job to show to the back 4 for the ball. A CMer is typically the guy with a gift for football. He has the vision, the first touch & the ability to protect the ball and come away with it under pressure. We don't have that. If we did, the players you berate for not playing well enough would have played better. Instead the back 4 hoofed it all night.

Billsthoughts, whare are you and what would your Spanish mate think?

Still happy though :)

This is it. What happened today? It is almost unbelievable. Dunne seemed like he was lost. O'Shea the same. As for Kilbane! But we pulled through. And I am delighted.

[tricky_colour]

we'll be playing better teams than Cyprus in the playoff and/or world cup. We have the players to be putting teams like Cyprus away with minimum fuss. Certainly if we're expecting to actually win a game in South Africa.

Italy only beat them 2:1 in Cyprus so maybe they are as worried as us?

[SkStu]

they should be - theyve been terrible too!

[seanfhear]

I was singing Dunne's praises earlier this week / month. He was clumsy, awkward and downright unprofessional at times tonight.
Dunne has really gone off form. Maybe he needs a club manager who believes in him. Ever since Mark Hughes won the lottery he has undermined Dunnes confidence.

I really hope Dunne can get back to the player he was 12/18 months ago.

[eekers]

I know im gonna be jumped on for saying this, but Jamie O'Hara would really do well in that midfield.

[tricky_colour]

Ya, things went OK around Europe for us today.

I just can't figure us out though. We looked awful for most of the game tonight but we're still somehow grinding out the results all the same.

On one side, the pitch was awful, the atmosphere was crap, its a tricky place to go and I'd have gladly taken any sort of win before kick-off. Didn't see any yellow cards either.

But still, you worry that we will eventually br found out the way we're playing. Clearly Trap sees we've got no centre midfield and we're just skipping it with long balls, but its hard to see that changing anytime soon so we're going to be stuck with this gameplan. Just awful to watch.

I think Duff got a second yellow?

[EastTerracer]

I think Duff got a second yellow?

I don't think so. From my recollection and according to the FIFA website Folan was the only Irish player booked tonight.

[irishultra]

Also the omens seem to have been true. Players flew economy class like last time and the ref officiated a Champions League game between Cork City and APOEL which City won.

[Stuttgart88]

Folan was only yellow.

[SuperDave]

So. Who do we want to win on Wednesday? Italy or Bulgaria? If Bulgaria wins, it will give us a chance to leap frog over Italy for first place. Italy wins and they have 1st place sown up and we're golden for second.

But it means if we draw with italy and beat montenegro, and italy and bulgaria win all their other games, we finish third.... not a chance i want bulgaria to win! it has no positives! a draw has exactly the same positives, with none of the negatives. we want a draw in that game, or secondly an italian win.

we do not, under any circumstances, want a bulgarian win. none at all.

[Stuttgart88]

A draw means 2 home wins and we're there, yes?

Great for my state of mind, probably terminal for my marriage.

[elroy]

I wish there was Ctrl [X] function on my computer I could just press to save me typing "there's not much wrong with this team that a good central midfield wouldn't rectify".

I like the two lads and Whelan nearly scored a belter and Andrews set up Doyle's goal, but CM was just non-existent tonight, doing none of what a functional CM would do.

I vividly recall typing that CM was fully functional away to Norway. That's a long time ago.

Watching the RTE analysis - come on Owls Fan and the rest, tell me it wasn't spot on - I think Souness as manager and Reid and Reid in CM and we'd be much better than we are.

It's ok to say that Whelan & Andrews are making us less porous but if we could actually hang on to the ball and actually cause a threat to the opposition then we'd be in better shape.

That said, 2-1 Ireland. Better than 5-2 to Cyprus. Job done. Next...

I hear your points about the CM and their poor performance. However, does ye not think the way we play or the Trap has the team set up inhibits them.

They are largely anonymous, long ball after long ball. We can play the ball around as was evidenced by the first ten mins or so and particularly for the period after we scored our second goal. We kept the ball very well, played it around very intelligently and created a few openings. Cyprus didnt have a chance after we scored our second other than two silly free kicks.
Perhaps they should show more for the ball, but i think the long ball tactic is a big factor in their poor performances.

Also I thought Okkas gave Dunne a torrid time tonight, not a great showing from him, gave away silly free kicks particularly near the end and was fortunate not to concede a penalty.

[geysir]

Did we out-dive the Cypriots?

[Uncle_Joe]

funny how it goes. I dont think this could have been more predicatble. Hands up how many people thought tonight would be a poor performance by Ireland which happened to finish 1-2.
CM is without doubt the problem, and has been for the last 3 years. as much as we can all admire Andrews and Whelen/Gibson for their effort, its only a matter of time before some mediocre team embarrases us. Like many on this forum I believe that Steven Reid will increase our potential ten fold, but on the odd occasion when he will be fit someone else is due to be injured. We have a pretty decent squad overall, its just a pity that at any one time someone important has to be injured, and they always tend to be the differance between an average Irish team and a mediocre one.

Having said that, is everyone else convinced that the Stephen Hunts future as an international player should be solely as an impact sub, and never to start a game. The guy can seriously change the whole tempo of a game
when he comes on a sub, but for me when he starts he is does F*** all.

[elroy]

A draw means 2 home wins and we're there, yes?

Great for my state of mind, probably terminal for my marriage.

4 points from our final two games guarantes second spot.

If we win the last two games, obviously guaranted second, but we may not get the top spot, if Italy get two wins from their other two games, at home to Bulgaria and Cyprus.

If Italy win on wed night, that is the group done and dusted in my opinion. We would then be playing for points to guarante a play off spot.

[SuperDave]

A draw means 2 home wins and we're there, yes?

Great for my state of mind, probably terminal for my marriage.

a draw on wednesday means two wins and we win the group, three points would get us into the playoffs

an italian win means two draws (or even just a win v montenegro) means we make the playoffs

a bulgaria win means we HAVE to win both our remaining games to win the group, anything less, anything at all, and we would almost certainly finish third

simple!

[Stuttgart88]

I hear your points about the CM and their poor performance. However, does ye not think the way we play or the Trap has the team set up inhibits them. Geysir alluded to a Trapp quote suggesting that CM's poor showing was not down to tactics.

RTE at least asked the questins, Bill corretl;y asking was ita loack of confidence in the CM that caused the hoofing, Giles querying the moral couarge in showing for the ball etc.

We won anyway, Fcuking delighted. If you qualify you all start off on zero points, even Brazil. It's not like you're handicapped based on how you got there.

I can't imagine the French are doing cartwheels at the moment, or Portugal, or Italy...

[irishultra]

Did we out-dive the Cypriots?

Yes, having said that diving and Irish players is not new. Damien Duff against Spain in 02 for example.

[elroy]

a
a bulgaria win means we HAVE to win both our remaining games to win the group, anything less, anything at all, and we would almost certainly finish third

simple!

Not necessarily, Bulgaria are five points behind us with 3 games left, so max they can get is 9 points. If they do, we would need to get at least 4 points to stay ahead of them, if we just managed the 4 it would come down to goal difference which after 2n is prob in Bulgaria's favour.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, having said that diving and Irish players is not new. Damien Duff against Spain in 02 for example.Disagree totally. The defender slid straight though Duff's path without winning the ball. If Duff had stayed on his feet he'd have lost the ball as a consequence of the attempted tackle. If the tackle hadn't come in Duff had control of the ball only yarrs from the goal. No contact (Duff maunufactured the contact) but 100% foul. Go to ground, miss the ball, you deserve to be penalised. Evetywehere in the world except UK & IRL this is appreciated.

[Eirambler]

a draw on wednesday means two wins and we win the group, three points would get us into the playoffs

an italian win means two draws (or even just a win v montenegro) means we make the playoffs

a bulgaria win means we HAVE to win both our remaining games to win the group, anything less, anything at all, and we would almost certainly finish third

simple!

Ya, except that if we get two draws and Italy beat Bulgaria, that would get us second but 12 points (discounting the Georgia 6) might see us miss out as worst second place team, if the Scots beat the Dutch.

Now that we've beaten Cyprus, a draw between Italy and Bulgaria is the dream result for us. 2 wins would then win us the group, and even if we lost to Italy we'd still be grand for the playoffs as long as we beat Montenegro.

It's unlikely that Bulgaria would win, but if they did, they'd still have to win in Cyprus to put us in trouble. They didn't win in Ireland, Georgia or Montenegro, so theres nothing to suggest they'll win both of those games.

They're probably sickened by our late winner as well. They were right back in it if we drew tonight, now it looks very unlikely.

[SuperDave]

Not necessarily, Bulgaria are five points behind us with 3 games left, so max they can get is 9 points. If they do, we would need to get at least 4 points to stay ahead of them, if we just managed the 4 it would come down to goal difference which after 2n is prob in Bulgaria's favour.

that's why i said 'almost certainly'... their gd is currently 1 goal better than ours, and if they won three games and we got a win and a draw.... i think their gd is going to be better if that happens

i didn't want to add things unnecessarily and was trying to simplify things, though i suppose there is always the chance they could draw with cyprus away.

anyway, if bulgaria beat italy and we draw with italy, we still probably finish beneath italy and probably bulgaria too. we can be agreed, bulgaria winning is a bad thing.

[tricky_colour]

I don't think so. From my recollection and according to the FIFA website Folan was the only Irish player booked tonight.

MAybe it was someone who fouled Duff who got a second yellow, I was watching on a choppy stream, bit hard to tell what was happening half the time, even missed the end of the game as the person streaming it put the TV guide on :rolleyes:

Yea I though something was wrong when he said "he will miss the match against Montenegro" and I just checked and of course our next match is Italy, it is Cyprus who play Montenegtro next so it make sense now, must have been a foul on not by Duff, Duff tends to avoid
getting too physical what with his injury proneness and all.

[tricky_colour]

Not necessarily, Bulgaria are five points behind us with 3 games left, so max they can get is 9 points. If they do, we would need to get at least 4 points to stay ahead of them, if we just managed the 4 it would come down to goal difference which after 2n is prob in Bulgaria's favour.

The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.

I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one :D

[bob_h]

You won't need your calculator, I'm going to post up an automated permutations calculator in a few minutes :)

[FarBeag]

Just prolonging the agony. Even if we somehow get to the playoffs the chances of getting any team as weak as the ones we have played in this group is very slim. We beat Cyprus to-night because they were missing their best players. At no stage in this match did I think we would win it.

We can’t retain possession, we can’t pass the ball and we can’t hold on to a lead. I don’t care what anyone says we have to pray that some left back appears out of nowhere, Steven Reid get fit and Trapp calls up Andy Reid.

[SuperDave]

The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.

I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one :D

thing is, in terms of us topping the group, a draw is as good as bulgaria winning (it means the italians go two points clear, or stay one clear... which makes no difference even if we beat them and draw with montenegro and they draw level, because their gd is so superior)

in terms of finishing second, a draw is almost as good as an italian win (it means we'd need three points rather than two to finish second, that's it), but a bulgarian win leaves them two points down on us, with a superior gd.... not what we want

in relatively simple terms

italian win .... we need 2 points for second, 6 for first, with italy drawing v cyprus or losing.

bulgaria win .... we need 6 points for first, anything less and we need one of italy or bulgaria to drop points for us to get second.... otherwise it is third

draw .... we need 3 points for second, 6 for first, less if there are upsets in the other games

[shakermaker1982]

Christ that was painful but a win is a win.....and I'm starting to buy into the Trap is a lucky manager theory!

I must confess that my heart skips a beat any time the ball is within 30 metres of our back 4 at the moment. Dunne is normally solid but wasn't at the races today. Kilbane is Kilbane but I thought O'Shea was ok.

Our central midfield pairing once again let the game pass them by. Hopefully Steven Reid can play a part against Italy. The two lads try but they cannot grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward.

The ref didn't do anybody any favours. He does realise that players are allowed to compete for headers and now and physical contact is allowed in certain situations?

All in all a shocking performance and I still cannot believe we are still in with a chance of automatic qualification.

[elroy]

The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.

I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one :D

I think Bulgaria winning is all round the worst result. If they win, we still will need to beat Italy to go above Italy, if its a draw, we still need to beat Italy to win the group. So a draw gives us a realistic chance of topping the group, an Italian win means we're just playing for points to get a playoff spot, a Bulgarian win and all three places are undecided.

Current standing
Italy 17
Ireland 16
Bulgaria 11

I think likely results, say
Ita Bul - draw
Cyp Bul - Bul win
Ire Ital - draw
Ire Mont - Ire win
Bul Geo - Bul win
Ital Cyp - Ita win

will leave group as follows:
Italy 22
Ireland 20
Bulgaria 18


The home game against Montenegro could be the most nervous of the lot, as it is likely we will need to win to guarantee a play off spot.........Well at least its a nice change from this stage in the last campaign!!!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/group=250479/index.html

[Crosby87]

Christ that was painful but a win is a win.....and I'm starting to buy into the Trap is a lucky manager theory!

I must confess that my heart skips a beat any time the ball is within 30 metres of our back 4 at the moment.
Our central midfield pairing once again let the game pass them by. Hopefully Steven Reid can play a part against Italy. The two lads try but they cannot grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward.

All in all a shocking performance and I still cannot believe we are still in with a chance of automatic qualification.

I agree with all of this totally. I mean I was REALLY ****ed off during the game and then I see Portugal for example are probably out of it, and I am thankful but.........I just keep wondering is this team EVER going to put in a good performance?

Some people say, only results matter but come on.....

and Steven Hunt is awful I said it before and I spent some time watching Notre Dame but I couldnt stop thinking about how bad Hunt was....McGeady looked uneasy but I still never ever want to see Hunt start again. I really think he was that bad. It looked like he never touched a soccer ball in his life.

[SuperDave]

i just hope the cyprus v bulgaria game is over before we start v italy... ours is 7:45, hopefully theirs is earlier.... not likely to be 9:45pm local time, when both bulgaria and cyprus are two hours ahead of us and used to the daytime heat.... hopefully its early and hopefully bulgaria drop points!

[elroy]

i just hope the cyprus v bulgaria game is over before we start v italy... ours is 7:45, hopefully theirs is earlier.... not likely to be 9:45pm local time, when both bulgaria and cyprus are two hours ahead of us and used to the daytime heat.... hopefully its early and hopefully bulgaria drop points!

According to fifa site, both kick off at same time.

[cestlavie]

The good players we have are not encouraged to play football. Its a results game for a manager. It would be more entertaining watching paint dry.

[RiffRaff]

and Steven Hunt is awful I said it before and I spent some time watching Notre Dame but I couldnt stop thinking about how bad Hunt was....McGeady looked uneasy but I still never ever want to see Hunt start again. I really think he was that bad. It looked like he never touched a soccer ball in his life.

I honestly didnt think Hunt was that bad today. He did a lot of hard work. Duff at this stage has no pace and will just look for a free kick at any opportunity, though he can still deliver a good ball if he gets far enough forward and McGeady just ruins all his good work by trying to do too much and falling over. Personally I would still have Hunt in the team ahead of either.

[tricky_colour]

I agree with all of this totally. I mean I was REALLY ****ed off during the game and then I see Portugal for example are probably out of it, and I am thankful but.........I just keep wondering is this team EVER going to put in a good performance?

Some people say, only results matter but come on.....

and Steven Hunt is awful I said it before and I spent some time watching Notre Dame but I couldnt stop thinking about how bad Hunt was....McGeady looked uneasy but I still never ever want to see Hunt start again. I really think he was that bad. It looked like he never touched a soccer ball in his life.

Hunt is rated condsiderable higher than borh Duff and McGeady on Skysports, for what it is worth...

Incidently is that the second time in a row Keane has scored with a header?

[The Fly]

I'm very thankful that we have the three points. Yes, we were lucky, but three points is three points.

I believe that Trapattoni is getting the best out of the resources available, (or that he has made available).
Whenever I see an Irish side with a midfield four that includes Andrews, Whelan and Hunt I do despair somewhat. Lets not kid ourselves, they are all average players. What I expect from them is a certain level of competency - to succeed in carrying out the basics of the game. Sadly, even here, they often fall short.
With that midfield we have no divine right to win any match or qualify for any tournament, indeed getting there would be a major achievement.
Trapattoni knows this and so do our more accomplished players in defence and attack which explains why they often bypass the midfield during the game.


In my view, we can just be thankful for were we are and keep our fingers crossed that Stephen Reid returns fit and healthy, and that Darron Gibson fulfills on his undoubted promise.

[irishultra]

I'm very thankful that we have the three points. Yes, we were lucky, but three points is three points.

I believe that Trapattoni is getting the best out of the resources available, (or that he has made available).
Whenever I see an Irish side with a midfield four that includes Andrews, Whelan and Hunt I do despair somewhat. Lets not kid ourselves, they are all average players. What I expect from them is a certain level of competency - to succeed in carrying out the basics of the game. Sadly, even here, they often fall short.
With that midfield we have no divine right to win any match or qualify for any tournament, indeed getting there would be a major achievement.
Trapattoni knows this and so do our more accomplished players in defence and attack which explains why they often bypass the midfield during the game.


In my view, we can just be thankful for were we are and keep our fingers crossed that Stephen Reid returns fit and healthy, and that Darron Gibson fulfills on his undoubted promise.

Problem with that is that its not Italy we were playing against it was a cyprus. A team which boasts all its players from a country which is give or take the same standard as our league. Bohemians would be of the same level as that team tonight and on many nights would beat them and thats definetly not an overstatement.

Our players limitations shouldn't be exposed against teams of the level of Cyprus. At that level we should look a class above.