View Full Version : Coughlan told to pay up or face Cork player strike
Marco
03/09/2009, 12:18 PM
I think he has hood winked the players and staff once again. TC knows the players haven't much choice now since the transfer window is closed. He is living in fantasy land if he thinks they will get 5000 per game, there allready down about 1500 from last season. There is very little in the way of advertising and if you werent an follower of LOI then where are the extra fans coming from. All this crap has led to even more negative opinions of TC. Like I have said it's the players and staff who should get huge credit for putting up with this.
marinobohs
03/09/2009, 12:25 PM
I think he has hood winked the players and staff once again. TC knows the players haven't much choice now since the transfer window is closed. He is living in fantasy land if he thinks they will get 5000 per game, there allready down about 1500 from last season. There is very little in the way of advertising and if you werent an follower of LOI then where are the extra fans coming from. All this crap has led to even more negative opinions of TC. Like I have said it's the players and staff who should get huge credit for putting up with this.
Can players not move outside the window if they are out of contract ? As the club are unable to make payments then they would be in breach of contract and the players free to move. i think this happened at Shels (did heary take a legal action ?) and something similar happened with a certain striker that bufggered off to Belguim.
This is of course predicated on the belief that there is somewhere to move to.
micls
03/09/2009, 12:26 PM
Can players not move outside the window if they are out of contract ? As the club are unable to make payments then they would be in breach of contract and the players free to move. i think this happened at Shels (did heary take a legal action ?) and something similar happened with a certain striker that bufggered off to Belguim.
This is of course predicated on the belief that there is somewhere to move to.
Only if they are out of contract BEFORE the window closed.
Our players are now stuck
pineapple stu
03/09/2009, 12:27 PM
Any indication what TNB's plans are for when the season ends? Will he stay and try and heroically turn things around, or will he walk a hero for having tried in the face of adversity?
marinobohs
03/09/2009, 12:31 PM
Any indication what TNB's plans are for when the season ends? Will he stay and try and heroically turn things around, or will he walk a hero for having tried in the face of adversity?
I expect he is just concentrating on seeing out this season. Would be surprised if he is thinking about next season at this point (if he is it has to be "how the f%*k do I get out of here").
Long term planning (IE beyond next week) is not a strong point in the LOI :)
micls
03/09/2009, 12:32 PM
Any indication what TNB's plans are for when the season ends? Will he stay and try and heroically turn things around, or will he walk a hero for having tried in the face of adversity?
TNB probably doesn't even know, apart from the fact that he wont walk without a payout and no one will give him a cent
pineapple stu
03/09/2009, 12:43 PM
A stand-off. Just what Cork need.
Has he a contract? I assume he can just offer himself one anyway?
Does he own the club (as in the shares)?
A stand-off. Just what Cork need.
Has he a contract? I assume he can just offer himself one anyway?
Does he own the club (as in the shares)?
Yes, he owns the company
Have you considered just paying a hitman?
(Joking)
A face
03/09/2009, 1:36 PM
Have you considered just paying a hitman?
No, but hey its brilliant idea :cool:
(Joking)
Ahh err .... a joke, oh yeah .... hey ... yeah, i knew it was a joke, all along ... course you were joking .... i was just playing along with the joke y'see :o;)
Ezeikial
03/09/2009, 1:57 PM
TNB probably doesn't even know, apart from the fact that he wont walk without a payout and no one will give him a cent
Presumably this includes FORAS. If Tom wants a payout to walk, and no will will oblige, whats your read on how the close season will play out (presuming everyone is still standing by then). Do you really believe that Uncle Tom will carry on next season?
Presumably this includes FORAS.
I can't say for definite how members would vote, but I can't see there being any chance of a vote passing to give him money.
If Tom wants a payout to walk, and no will will oblige, whats your read on how the close season will play out (presuming everyone is still standing by then). Do you really believe that Uncle Tom will carry on next season?
I honestly have no idea. Couple of things that could happen
1) We dont even make it that far, company is wound up at some stage, players strike etc. We start in the A Championship
2) FAI dont give him a license, company is wound up, we apply for a license for next year.
3) He sells/walks away and someone takes on the debt
4) The hitman idea.....
I think if he's still there by the start of next season then we won't finish the season, I also think we'l sell little or no season tickets with him there and many people would boycott the start of next season.
The only reason people aren't boycotting now imo is the emotional blackmail that if they do our players won't get paid.
pineapple stu
03/09/2009, 2:16 PM
Could you save time by applying for the A League now?
Longfordian
03/09/2009, 2:20 PM
The only reason people aren't boycotting now imo is the emotional blackmail that if they do our players won't get paid.
Could ye not pay the money into that fund for the players managed by the PFAI though rather than entrusting Coughlan with it?. It'd be hard done I know but it'd send a loud and clear message .
Ezeikial
03/09/2009, 2:33 PM
1) We dont even make it that far, company is wound up at some stage, players strike etc. We start in the A Championship
2) FAI dont give him a license, company is wound up, we apply for a license for next year.
If Cork City qualified for Europe in this season, and either of the above happened, any views on whether the new entity would be able to take up that place?
Schumi
03/09/2009, 2:38 PM
If Cork City qualified for Europe in this season, and either of the above happened, any views on whether the new entity would be able to take up that place?
It'd be a new club so they'd have no claim on anything due to the old one.
Hitman
03/09/2009, 4:11 PM
Have you considered just paying a hitman?
(Joking)
I think this one might be pro-bono.
eelmonster
03/09/2009, 4:54 PM
The writing's on the wall (again) for Coughlan.
If Cork City qualified for Europe in this season, and either of the above happened, any views on whether the new entity would be able to take up that place?
It'd be a new club so they'd have no claim on anything due to the old one.
No it wouldn't , but it would be a new company and a completely new licensing application. The same thing happened in 1995 but at the time the licensing rules were different and a license could be passed to another company even after liquidation.
So it would be a cash of starting from the bottom up again I'd imagine.
dcfcsteve
04/09/2009, 12:20 AM
The writing's on the wall (again) for Coughlan.
Hell - you can't even see the wall for all the writing !
(I have visions of Coughlan in the 'Life of Brian' bit in the morning after Brian had covered the city walls with 'Romans go home'.....).
CuanaD
04/09/2009, 6:44 AM
I think this one might be pro-bono.
Meaning, pay for the Coughlan hit & get a Bono hit for free?
Nice :D
Could ye not pay the money into that fund for the players managed by the PFAI though rather than entrusting Coughlan with it?. It'd be hard done I know but it'd send a loud and clear message .
My only hope with the hardship fund is that there is some agreement for those using the fund to repay it when they get the money due. I'm all for the players having support, but at the same time they'll feck off in the close season, and FORAS will still be left to pick up the pieces at some point in the future...
My only hope with the hardship fund is that there is some agreement for those using the fund to repay it when they get the money due. I'm all for the players having support, but at the same time they'll feck off in the close season, and FORAS will still be left to pick up the pieces at some point in the future...
The money in the hardship fund, is a bridging loan. There will be a contract signed, organised by the pfai, byt the player to repay the money when he gets paid.
Dalymountrower
04/09/2009, 8:45 AM
Application by AFC City, Viagrasons FC (or the like) to the A league by Foras looks like the best option?
TC may be out of his depth but he is deluded and obstinate enough to collapse the existing club around him . In that (likely) event Foras could be invited to fill a vacancy in the First Division for next season and then onwards and upwards. I always reckoned Cork Greater urban area , Ballincollig to Middleton, Blarney to Carrigaline plus Cobh could support two Premier and one First Division Team.
Wasn`t there a year in the late 70`s early 80`s when there was no Cork Team at Senior National Level.? it would be a real blow for the league if that was to happen again.
dcfcsteve
04/09/2009, 12:03 PM
Wasn`t there a year in the late 70`s early 80`s when there was no Cork Team at Senior National Level.? it would be a real blow for the league if that was to happen again.
Cork United left the league in 1982 - Cork City joined in 1984.
Cork clubs have had more identity changes than Face from the A-Team, though they somehow let a few years slip as above.
pineapple stu
04/09/2009, 12:11 PM
Wasn`t there a year in the late 70`s early 80`s when there was no Cork Team at Senior National Level.?
82/83, 83/84 and 84/85.
I wonder how the MFA would view two Cork teams looking to use Turner's Cross though.
dcfcsteve
04/09/2009, 2:49 PM
82/83, 83/84 and 84/85.
Cork City had entered the league for the 1984/85 season.
The post previous to yours wasn't a lie, you know..... :D
longfordjames
09/09/2009, 7:12 PM
Can someone who knows please post up the attendane of tonights game v Celtic as I could not travel.
Buile Shuibhne
09/09/2009, 8:32 PM
What happens if tonight's gate is not enough to repay the 200k to the mystery lender in London.
As guarantors will the FAI stump up anyway?
How would this impinge on licencing issues, as the FAI have said previously that they cannot get involved in bailing out clubs of financial difficulties?
adamd164
09/09/2009, 8:34 PM
It won't be anywhere near enough; there are 4000 people there.
FAI are gonna be in a bit of a pickle.
SMorgan
09/09/2009, 9:04 PM
How much did they charge in?
dcfcsteve
09/09/2009, 10:57 PM
What was the score, and how much did they have to pay to get out again....?
tiktok
09/09/2009, 11:04 PM
Attendance was just over 3,500.
The FAI have already agreed to hold participation and prize money back until the debt is cleared afaik. We're in a situation now where the next 150k we win/ earm in participation money won't come to our account
Rovers1
09/09/2009, 11:07 PM
What was the score, and how much did they have to pay to get out again....?
http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/2474/
Team Glasgow won 1 net goal to zero
dcfcsteve
09/09/2009, 11:37 PM
Yet again British Celtic exhibit their cherished Irish roots and reward their legion of loyal consumers - sorry, fans - by fielding an unheard of reserve team in a friendly game on Irish soil.
Yet another club and set of fans learn the hard way that friendlies against the Scottish club are a waste of time and money....
In fairness, Harps were delighted with the squad brought when we played them.
Dalymountrower
10/09/2009, 8:46 AM
Recent friendlies show the phenomenal attraction of the English Premiership to Irish people over all other domestic, European club and International games.
Celtic just don`t draw big crowds here any more, ( Didn`t fill Tolka for their European tie v Pats for example) the Irish International side could only draw 11,000 against the World Cup Hosts, Champions League/third round UEFA ties this Summer attracting 5,000 and 3,500 respectively. While a team of kids wearing a Liverpool crest against a Bohs Second Team could have filled Dalymount twice over in a meaningless friendly! Bohs cleared 100k from that tie , Cork willl be lucky to make half that, bizarre.!
seand
10/09/2009, 11:05 AM
So it would be fair to say Cork are in deep, deep trouble again. Being extremely generous and assuming they/the FAI somehow make 100K from the Celtic game they still owe the FAI 100K. Before paying wages etc.
tiktok
10/09/2009, 11:37 AM
So it would be fair to say Cork are in deep, deep trouble again. Being extremely generous and assuming they/the FAI somehow make 100K from the Celtic game they still owe the FAI 100K. Before paying wages etc.
It means that winnings participation money from the FAI will be directed to the person who gave the loan until such time as the remaining money is paid. At that rate that money comes in, unless we win a competition or place second in the league, you're talking a few years minimum of money that we won't be able to budget with.
To use the word again is a bit misleading as it suggests a point recently where we weren't in trouble.
marinobohs
10/09/2009, 1:04 PM
It means that winnings participation money from the FAI will be directed to the person who gave the loan until such time as the remaining money is paid. At that rate that money comes in, unless we win a competition or place second in the league, you're talking a few years minimum of money that we won't be able to budget with.
To use the word again is a bit misleading as it suggests a point recently where we weren't in trouble.
Really is a struggle from one week to the next for Cork.I presume they have/ would release any players that get an offer from another club as it is difficult to see how they will continue to meet payroll until the end of the season ?
just have to hope they can stagger on until the end of the season and clear out all players.
Writing on the wall when Cork cannot generate enough money to sustain one full time football club ?
Cork can. The problem, as per usual, is overspending in the short term pursuit of success.
tiktok
10/09/2009, 1:09 PM
Writing on the wall when Cork cannot generate enough money to sustain one full time football club ?
There is no doubt in my mind that Cork could generate enough money to sustain a full-time club. We sustained one and won the league in 2005, the issue is how we've tried to do it since through Arkaga and then the current owner.
Bad business sense does not neccessarily equate to a bad business opportunity for someone else.
We've had an average attendance in our last two competitive games of 1600, you can't sustain a full-time set-up on that, but I don't think that's reflective of what could be achieved in Cork City.
marinobohs
10/09/2009, 1:17 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that Cork could generate enough money to sustain a full-time club. We sustained one and won the league in 2005, the issue is how we've tried to do it since through Arkaga and then the current owner.
Bad business sense does not neccessarily equate to a bad business opportunity for someone else.
We've had an average attendance in our last two competitive games of 1600, you can't sustain a full-time set-up on that, but I don't think that's reflective of what could be achieved in Cork City.
Would like to think Cork can sustain full time football (or everyone else is knackered !) but a casual (turn up when winning) support is not the basis for a full time model either. The fact that the recent gates were realitively small when everyone knows the position does not auger well for future attendances and certainly would be a very unsound basis for a full time set up.
tiktok
10/09/2009, 1:54 PM
Would like to think Cork can sustain full time football (or everyone else is knackered !) but a casual (turn up when winning) support is not the basis for a full time model either. The fact that the recent gates were realitively small when everyone knows the position does not auger well for future attendances and certainly would be a very unsound basis for a full time set up.
You're Absolutely right which is why in all likelyhood, whoever is in next in Cork [or Tom Coughlan next season] is going to have to seriously question whether we can sustain a full-time set-up next season and in 2011. The negative press and number of people who have been burned by the club has left us with a lot to claw back.
A huge number of the creditors who keep losing out are City fans who were giving good prices to CCFC becuase they were supporters, only then to get left with 7% of what they were owed. We have a long way back from that and I think you're seeing it reflected in the crowds [though I have to add] the football played under Doolin up to the last two games has been muck and isn't helping.
We have some positivess, Kevin Mullen at the club is an excellent Commercial manager, his reappointment has had immediate effects [something as small as every game being fully sponsored since his return - that wasn't happening all season]. Others at the club are excelling in hugely difficult positions as they struggle to counter the overwhelming negativity that's out there towards the club.
Long term you'd think that full-time is sustainable if apprioached seriously, but in the short term it's a much tougher call.
soccerc
10/09/2009, 2:00 PM
Celtic just don`t draw big crowds here any more, ( Didn`t fill Tolka for their European tie v Pats for example)
That was 11 (eleven) years ago and was completely sold out.
Ask many pats fans about it and watch their reaction
Dalymountrower
10/09/2009, 2:17 PM
That was 11 (eleven) years ago and was completely sold out.
Ask many pats fans about it and watch their reaction
Not my recollection, but I take your word on it
marinobohs
10/09/2009, 2:23 PM
That was 11 (eleven) years ago and was completely sold out.
Ask many pats fans about it and watch their reaction
I recall Pats fans getting stick for not supporting the "Irish" team (only here !). That game was the beginning of the end for my interest in Celtic FC (and Yes, the hoops do not help :)).
I hope i'm wrong but i can see us sadly loseing a few players during the close season this winter. Was always going to be hard to sell out last night's game against Celtic since it was a Wednesday,school in the morning and also since it was Junior Cert night.
Buile Shuibhne
10/09/2009, 6:14 PM
It means that winnings participation money from the FAI will be directed to the person who gave the loan until such time as the remaining money is paid. At that rate that money comes in, unless we win a competition or place second in the league, you're talking a few years minimum of money that we won't be able to budget with.
To use the word again is a bit misleading as it suggests a point recently where we weren't in trouble.
A few follow up questions if you don't mind please?
Does this mean that the FAI drip-feed repayments to the lender as it accrues to Cork City, or have the FAI repaid him the full sum now and repay themselves later over a period from the winnings / participations monies as they are earned?
Was the loan made out to Coughlan's CCFC Investments Ltd (?) company and if he were to fold or disappear off into the sunset, would the loan still be owed by the football club entity or say FORAS if they took up the running of the club?
If the above were to happen it's likely that Cork would be relegated and FORAS would begin rebuilding from the A League, where the winnings / participation monies would be greatly reduced, placing a heavier and much more prolonged burden on the the new club?
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